Did a word search for "lost souls" and "lost soul" in the Bible and found that the combination is nowhere to be found. :dsunny: :banana: :happyclap:
While likely anyone on a UR forum will agree with that I think a simple word search only proves the words you searched for aren't in the Bible.
There are many other ways to say/imply the same. I'm not saying there are such words but I think a word search should include more that just 2 search terms.
:2c:
:iagree: WW ,
Life and soul are interchangable in meaning
example and definition
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Strong's G5590 - psychē
1) breath
a) the breath of life
1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
a) of animals
b) of men
b) life
c) that in which there is life
1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)
just trying to help Micah :dsunny:
Thanks Rosered, I just found it interesting everybody out in Christendom are seeking lost souls.
Luk 19:10 for the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.' Now that is Good News!
On a side note, anymore I personally stay away from most "soul" definitions, and death. :dunno2:
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 01, 2012, 06:25:48 PM
On a side note, anymore I personally stay away from most "soul" definitions, and death. :dunno2:
Why micah? This topic seems to be one of your strongest points. I have a couple of topics I feel I understand better than anything else I think I know :Pray: I don't know a great deal and am still learning things as time goes by but there are a couple of topics I feel I could measure up to the best of them.
Nevermind micah, I think I misunderstood what you actually said. You said "definations", not topics.
CHB
CHB why don't you start the soul as a topic.
I have a very clear understanding of the soul, flesh and spirit.
I do not have a clear understanding of how to start a new thread or post :dunno2:
imo the lost souls can be likened to the 40 years of wandering in the wilderness..like a sheep without
a shepherd...until 'that wicked" generation had died off/perished...then the entering in to the promises
when God sought to deliver Isreal from bondage to Pharoah in egypt...it was to take a three day
journey to offer a sacrifice...this is a parallel to Christs 3 day journey/and on the third day I shall be perfected...
as His sacrifice was pleasing unto the Lord........
a three day journey led of our true shepherd...vs a 40 year wandering til the wicked perish
Jesus walked a strait and narrow course unto Jerusalem..without veering to the right or veering to the left
much like an erect pole that bore a coiling serpent path around it[used as a sign of healing even unto today
that is how He bore our sin/errors in His flesh...our wandering lostness in the wilderness..away from
the strait and narrow leading to life...those who had been snake-bit]
the son of perdition[everlasting cutting off that perishes in the wilderness] will perish from all of us.....
Jesus and the comfortor will lead us to everlasting waters and pasture us on rich pastures......
Quote from: dajomaco on October 01, 2012, 08:32:30 PM
I do not have a clear understanding of how to start a new thread or post :dunno2:
Go to a section in which you want to start a thread. Lounge for example.
Press the "New Topic" button near the top.
Enter a title and you post. That's it.
Or click: http://tentmaker.org/forum/lounge/?action=post
Quote from: dajomaco on October 01, 2012, 08:32:30 PM
CHB why don't you start the soul as a topic.
I have a very clear understanding of the soul, flesh and spirit.
I do not have a clear understanding of how to start a new thread or post :dunno2:
Have a fruitful journey. :Peace2:
Quote from: sheila on October 01, 2012, 09:41:08 PM
imo the lost souls can be likened to the 40 years of wandering in the wilderness..like a sheep without
a shepherd...until 'that wicked" generation had died off/perished...then the entering in to the promises
when God sought to deliver Isreal from bondage to Pharoah in egypt...it was to take a three day
journey to offer a sacrifice...this is a parallel to Christs 3 day journey/and on the third day I shall be perfected...
as His sacrifice was pleasing unto the Lord........
a three day journey led of our true shepherd...vs a 40 year wandering til the wicked perish
Jesus walked a strait and narrow course unto Jerusalem..without veering to the right or veering to the left
much like an erect pole that bore a coiling serpent path around it[used as a sign of healing even unto today
that is how He bore our sin/errors in His flesh...our wandering lostness in the wilderness..away from
the strait and narrow leading to life...those who had been snake-bit]
the son of perdition[everlasting cutting off that perishes in the wilderness] will perish from all of us.....
Jesus and the comfortor will lead us to everlasting waters and pasture us on rich pastures......
I understand WW, my thought was most denominations in religion teach that the "job" is to save "lost souls or a lost soul," and the Bible is vacant in offering, that teaching. Now, finding that which is lost is a given.....in time.
Luk 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
I believe the parable states, "until he find it.".. For me that shows of a truth, that lost sheep WILL be found. Again it is just me :sigh:
Quote from: dajomaco on October 01, 2012, 08:32:30 PM
CHB why don't you start the soul as a topic.
I have a very clear understanding of the soul, flesh and spirit.
I do not have a clear understanding of how to start a new thread or post :dunno2:
The soul is not a subject that I have a clear understanding of.
CHB
Quote from: CHB on October 02, 2012, 01:19:42 AM
Quote from: dajomaco on October 01, 2012, 08:32:30 PM
CHB why don't you start the soul as a topic.
I have a very clear understanding of the soul, flesh and spirit.
I do not have a clear understanding of how to start a new thread or post :dunno2:
The soul is not a subject that I have a clear understanding of.
CHB
The FIRST thing to KNOW is that you, as a human being are a soul. All persons are souls. The Lord God did not give you a soul, you are a soul. The Lord God when He breathed into the formed dust of the ground, man became a living soul(human being) a person. (Gen. 2:7) The Greek language(or intelligence) assumed or decided that human emotions and appetites were the soul, rather than our sentient being. Man does not have an "immortal soul" of a truth man does not have a soul, man has feelings, emotions, appetites, desires all the mechanisms that make us want.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
God gave man the desires and appetites, and hungers that amplified mans feelings, our nature. The Christian Bible is the only translation I have found that gives souls their proper perspective. Once one can see that we are souls and souls are not our motivation, I believe the thought process is solved. I am very small minority. I also believe the theory, that man is made up of body-soul-spirit is the staple of trinity evolution. (OOPS....A subject not allowed.) Point according to the Bible, man is a soul, he does not have a soul. :doh:
What about animals they also are a soul too right :Chinscratch: they show emotions such as rage and anger and love they express alot of the same "feelings" as humans do
my horse Joe , He can always tell the days I am sad , he comforts me by breathing into my hair and rests his head on my shoulder , letting me know he understands and comforts
the bond is there ..
as with our Pom , he understands and reacts on or emotions that the soul expresses , very smart little guy :dsunny:
Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts;
even one thing befalleth them:
as the one dieth, so dieth the other;
yea, they have all one breath;
so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast:
for all [is] vanity.
when you are spiritually dead you are lost........parable of prodigal son..parable of lost sheep
I NEVER ONCE# SAID THAT THE LOST WILL NOT BE SE#ARCHED FOR OF THE SHEPHERD
He came to seek and tosave what was lost
Acts 27;22
when you are dead in sin and tresspass you are lost...when you are apprehended by the Good Shepherd you
are found
parable of the lost drachma
Jesus spoke of those who traverse land and sea to make a proselyte..and then they are two-fold the child
of hell..after they get done with them..THAT IS TRUE
it's just :sigh:me.
the diference from man and animal is spiritual life in God's image/dominion/kingdom/reign over all
of the lesser creatures of the creation...withoulf the spiritual life of God in you..you are lost
Quote from: rosered on October 02, 2012, 03:12:33 AM
What about animals they also are a soul too right :Chinscratch: they show emotions such as rage and anger and love they express alot of the same "feelings" as humans do
my horse Joe , He can always tell the days I am sad , he comforts me by breathing into my hair and rests his head on my shoulder , letting me know he understands and comforts
the bond is there ..
as with our Pom , he understands and reacts on or emotions that the soul expresses , very smart little guy :dsunny:
:thumbsup:
Quote from: rosered on October 02, 2012, 03:12:33 AM
What about animals they also are a soul too right :Chinscratch: they show emotions such as rage and anger and love they express alot of the same "feelings" as humans do
my horse Joe , He can always tell the days I am sad , he comforts me by breathing into my hair and rests his head on my shoulder , letting me know he understands and comforts
the bond is there ..
as with our Pom , he understands and reacts on or emotions that the soul expresses , very smart little guy :dsunny:
Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts;
even one thing befalleth them:
as the one dieth, so dieth the other;
yea, they have all one breath;
so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast:
for all [is] vanity.
Then you get it! :dsunny:
but...what about the only begotton son of God..heir of all..that is granted to have life in Himself?
that laid down His soul in order to take it back up.?
yeah..the soul that is sinning/missing the mark of the high calling in Christ will die...with all his desires
and mind in opposition to God.
but the soul of the righteous in Christ shall live..a new creature...I am making all things new
if we are one with Him in body,spirit,mind and heart..then we are one soul UNION ONE with the immortal
since the Lamb was slain before the founding of the world..and since we see the great cloud
of wittness borne along of Holy spirit tesifying of this seed of immortality...through Moses/law and
Elijah/prophets..to the voice of God in the garden speaking of the woman's seed...to John the baptist
declaring the Lamb of God that will take away the sins of the world..to the revelations..of the new
heaven and earth..where death shall be no more.
the angel of the Lord..the angel of the Lord the angel of the Lord...as a thread ministering throughout
the word of God...to those who receive/inherit eternal life. Even man made in the image and
likeness of the celestial One
I tell you..those raised up in Christ are one with the body of the Lamb...that was slain and put
to death in the flesh due to sin/sacrifice[unless blood is poured out there is no forgiveness of sin]
and now..spirit and mind in agreement with God..dwelling in this body undergoing this death...
who shall deliver you from it? Lift yourselves erect your deliverence draws nigh
there are two seeds in the feild..two men in the bed..two women at the handmill, good and evil
in the tree of knowlege, old and new, ministry of death/ministry of life, corrupt one,incorruptible one
man as a beast,man in likeness of God/son, servant who does not remain forever,
and a son who does, darkness and light, acceptable/good/perfect and unacceptable/evil/everlasting cutting off
IT IS ALL THE WORK OF HIS HANDS
no man ever hated his own flesh..but feeds and cherishes it
Quote from: sheila on October 02, 2012, 06:28:02 PM
but...what about the only begotton son of God..heir of all..that is granted to have life in Himself
I find that odd. Father gonna die? Father no longer owns creation?
:Chinscratch:
I do only what I behold my Father in heaven do.....no man takes it away from me..I lay it down
willingly..in order to take it back up again.
there is no other God..nor creator...He made both the unseen and seen creation from His substance
for there is nothing else. the very chair you sit on is come from His emenation..
E=mc2....in Him we live and move and have our being....He is the foundation which all creation
hangs on. It is His mind,will and heart and substance that forms us.
how can you tell the difference from the ONE TRUE GOD and an idol?
the TRUE GOD CARRIES US[work of His hands/creation] and men carry an idol[work of their hands]
and men would not repent of the work of their hands...AND PRAISE GOD FOR THE WORK OF HIS
Do nothing gods.......my Father has continued working until now......
our Father is Lord of the Sabbath..and He will rest when He has finished His new creation...
YOU CAN DO NOTHING UNLESS YOU REMAIN IN ME
IT IS MY FATHER DOING HIS WORKS IN ME
no man ever hated his own flesh..but feeds and cherishes it
no man ever hated his own dog..but feeds and cherishes it
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 02, 2012, 06:30:32 PM
Quote from: sheila on October 02, 2012, 06:28:02 PM
but...what about the only begotton son of God..heir of all..that is granted to have life in Himself
I find that odd. Father gonna die? Father no longer owns creation?
:Chinscratch:
I inherited the family bussiness becuase my Father retired.
:laughing7:
Quote from: dajomaco on October 02, 2012, 08:08:11 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 02, 2012, 06:30:32 PM
Quote from: sheila on October 02, 2012, 06:28:02 PM
but...what about the only begotton son of God..heir of all..that is granted to have life in Himself
I find that odd. Father gonna die? Father no longer owns creation?
:Chinscratch:
I inherited the family bussiness becuase my Father retired.
So your father no longer owns it.
A mother can take ownership of her son and be responsible for
his deeds and words.
Then the young man marries and takes ownership of his children and Wife.
The mother is not in ownership of the son.
When the young mans father is no longer in his role.
The young man will take owner ship of the whole family including the
the mom.
A father retires from his business.
He saw that the son is better or the same as him at running the business.
Then there is a special day that it is announced to the world.
That the Son is now the owner of the business and anything pertaining to it.
The Father rests. :coffee2: Whether he still believes the business is still his or not
is something he keeps to himself for he would never undermine his son.
:eek:
:Chinscratch:
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 05, 2012, 06:54:19 AM
Quote from: dajomaco on October 05, 2012, 04:58:44 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 05, 2012, 01:39:23 AM
Quote from: dajomaco on October 04, 2012, 11:52:11 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 04, 2012, 07:31:31 PM
:Chinscratch:
Micha you look perplexed. Are you?
No, read that it was a chin scratch. :dsunny:
What does a chinscratch mean ?:dunno:
I suppose it means the thread hit a wall?
Walls are sopmthing to be over come we can wait till an actor says TEAR DOWN THESE WALLS!
Or we can wait till we are all in the order of Melchizedek and walk through walls.
where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.
The soul is not a subject that I have a clear understanding of.
Quote from: cheapgw2gold on October 17, 2012, 04:59:48 AM
The soul is not a subject that I have a clear understanding of.
See Gen. 2:7
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
--1 Thess 5:23
Look at that.
We are tripartite creatures, made in the image of our God.
Spirit, soul, and body.
...and some say that's the order in which we're saved.
Quote from: jabcat on October 17, 2012, 07:09:41 PM
...and some say that's the order in which we're saved.
Very interesting!!! I agree, but I need to look deeper into the order in which we are saved and how it relates to the order in which man was created.
Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Why are only 2 'components' mentioned in that verse if there are 3?
Good question. I dunno. :Chinscratch:
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 17, 2012, 07:25:01 PM
Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Why are only 2 'components' mentioned in that verse if there are 3?
That's talking about death.
"And you shall not be afraid of those who kill the body that are not able to kill the soul; rather be afraid of him who can destroy soul and body in Gehenna." Mat 10:28
But, we have life and life eternal through our Lord, Jesus Christ.
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition [destruction]; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul. Heb 10:39
I don't understand your answer Molly.
Yes it's about death (spirit returning to God)
Then you quote a verse that mentions 2 components (body, soul) to support 3 components.
Why isn't the spirit mentioned?
Looking at the defs of spirit and soul they sound very similar.
(Gen 2:7) And LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
That sound like body=soul
But your verse sounds body isn't soul.
But what's the soul in that verse? Spirit? If not why isn't the spirit mentioned?
SOUL
ψυχή
psuchē
Thayer Definition:
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a1b) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from G5594
Citing in TDNT: 9:608, 1342
SPIRIT
rûach
BDB Definition:
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1b1) of heaven
1b2) quarter (of wind), side
1b3) breath of air
1b4) air, gas
1b5) vain, empty thing
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
1c7) prophetic spirit
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character
1g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1g1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
1g2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
1g4) as endowing men with various gifts
1g5) as energy of life
1g6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory
1g7) never referred to as a depersonalized force
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from H7306
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2131a
BTW, 1 Thess 5:23 which you quoted, clearly shows 3 components.
YOU can kill my body, ww, but you cannot kill my soul.
But, without Christ, all is vanity.
"vanity"
H1892
הבל הבל
hebel hăbêl
heh'-bel, hab-ale'
From H1891; emptiness or vanity; figuratively something transitory and unsatisfactory; often used as an adverb: - X altogether, vain, vanity.
That was Satan's victory, when we were lowered into vanity,
But Thanks be to God who has given US the victory through Jesus Christ, our Lord.
--1 Cor 15:57
Quote from: MollySpirit, soul, and body.
Body=dust=flesh etc => can be destroyed.
Spirit returns to God => can't be destroyed.
Soul => This one confuses me most. In Gen 2:7 is sounds like the body. But can also point to 'life force'.
But that seems to conflict with "And you shall not be afraid of those who kill the body that are not able to kill the soul"
Man certainly can kill "life force".
:dontknow:
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 17, 2012, 08:17:35 PM
Quote from: MollySpirit, soul, and body.
Body=dust=flesh etc => can be destroyed.
Spirit returns to God => can't be destroyed.
Soul => This one confuses me most. In Gen 2:7 is sounds like the body. But can also point to 'life force'.
But that seems to conflict with "And you shall not be afraid of those who kill the body that are not able to kill the soul"
Man certainly can kill "life force".
:dontknow:
Only people who have never left their bodies think the soul=the body.
He is Life. He is the resurrection. He has come to give us life and give it superabundantly.
this
computer is driving me crazy. iT'S jumping all over the place.
What do you think we are saved from? DEATH.
Quote from: Molly on October 17, 2012, 08:27:44 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 17, 2012, 08:17:35 PM
Quote from: MollySpirit, soul, and body.
Body=dust=flesh etc => can be destroyed.
Spirit returns to God => can't be destroyed.
Soul => This one confuses me most. In Gen 2:7 is sounds like the body. But can also point to 'life force'.
But that seems to conflict with "And you shall not be afraid of those who kill the body that are not able to kill the soul"
Man certainly can kill "life force".
:dontknow:
Only people who have never left their bodies think the soul=the body.
He is Life. He is the resurrection. He has come to give us life and give it superabundantly.
this
computer is driving me crazy. iT'S jumping all over the place.
When typing a message? If so Card had the same problem. Turned out a browser related problem.
QuoteWhat do you think we are saved from? DEATH.
'from' or 'out of' ?
But how that relate to this discussion (body, soul, spirit)?
Because we are being saved, spirit, soul, and body--in that order.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
--Heb 10
Why does Solomon tell us everything is meaningless? Do I feel that way? NO
Remember your Creator before the silver cord is cut.
That's when the golden bowl will be broken.
The wheel will be broken at the well.
The pitcher will be smashed at the spring.
7 Remember your Creator before you return to the dust you came from.
That's when your spirit will go back to God who gave it.
8 "Meaningless! Everything is meaningless!"
says the Teacher.
"Nothing has any meaning."
--Ecc 12
Solomon is talking about the default position [without Christ]. But, ultimately, he knows there is something more than just the seeming vanity of this life, where body and soul are destroyed after a short period of life. So, he ends with a warning. Why warn if everything is meaningless? Why warn if life is transient?
Everything has now been heard.
And here's the final thing I want to say.
Have respect for God and obey his commandments.
That's what everyone should do.
14 God will judge everything people do.
That includes everything they try to hide.
He'll judge everything, whether it's good or evil
--Ecc 12
Molly, do you have Scripture verses to support "being saved -- spirit, soul, body-in that order"??
Thanks.
Quote from: goodreport on October 17, 2012, 11:01:15 PM
Molly, do you have Scripture verses to support "being saved -- spirit, soul, body-in that order"??
Thanks.
I've got a whole honkin' long post somewhere about it, with scrips, but haven't been able to find it. It's one fellow's opinion (with scrips) but I found it pretty interesting. I'll keep looking.
Ah, found it. Here's the post from about a year or so ago, along with eaglesway's note at the bottom;
jabcat said; "Note - I am NOT saying this is 100% without question exact doctrine. I do think it has a lot of merit, some good potential for learning, and good for discussion.
Information from various sources, including C Miclaus and L Mize
Intro: The Word of God speaks about the salvation of man in three tenses: past, present, and future. Christians have been saved; Christians are being saved; and Christians will be saved. In Ephesians 2:8,9 of the Holy Bible, salvation is described as being a past, completed act. 1 Corinthians 1:18 states that salvation is a present, continuous work; and in Hebrews 1:14, salvation is an inherited possession for the future:
We already know from the Bible that in order to have access to Heaven/New Jerusalem, a person must be saved. Now, usually, when we say that a person was saved, we mean that person accepted Christ into his life. Now, let me say that even though you were saved (at a specific time and place), you are still in the process of salvation. Your spirit is saved, but some other parts of you are not yet saved. The Bible says: "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21) Yes, that is true, your soul is not saved yet!
Salvation takes place in three times: past, present and future. You were saved (that is your spirit) when you admitted you are a sinner and accepted Jesus as your personal Savor; that was in the past. You are in the process of salvation, now, in the present (salvation of the soul). And, you will be saved in the future, when God will completely take away sin from you (that is your body).
You might say, well, I think my soul is saved. I want to ask you to reconsider that. All those bad thoughts about your neighbor, wife, husband, parents, somebody from the church – do they come out of a saved soul??? I don't think so! When you hate somebody – is that the proof of a saved soul? Is everything that your mind thinks and your heart feels proof of salvation? Not in my case, at least! John, the apostle, says in 1 John 3:9, that "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." Well, you say, 'I am saved', 'I am a child of God', but the Bible says what is born of God cannot sin.
Do you sin? I do. What does that mean? Before answering, let me tell you that in this particular verse, John is referring to our spirit. Our spirit that was born from God cannot sin. And that is so true, your spirit and mine cannot sin. Why? Because it was born from God. It is His seed – and His seed cannot sin. In order to see what is not saved yet, just think of the sources of sin in yourself. One of them is your soul. Loving in a way we're not supposed to, hating others – just show us how sinful our soul is. And if something is sinful, that something needs salvation, it needs to be changed by God.
The Bible calls the salvation of the soul, sanctification. To sanctify means to make something that is sinful into a saint; it means to be "set apart" for God, for His service. This is the process through which the believer is gradually set away from sin, and becomes more and more dedicated to the standard of God's righteousness. Titus 2:14 makes that so clear: "Who gave himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." This process takes place every day, every moment, until God will decide to move us to His glory.
In the Bible, we see three different aspects of sanctification:
1. The instantly sanctification is the position the believer receives in front of God the moment he accepts Jesus through faith. 1 Corinthians 6:11: "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." This is you position before God.
2. Progressive sanctification is the process of a man growing in righteousness; it is what "takes us ever higher" and "releases us ever more from under the power of sin." 2 Corinthians 7:1b: "...let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." The New Testament doesn't have any shortcut to sanctification; it only encourages us to just dedicate to the old-fashioned but honored reading of the Bible and to meditate, pray, worship, [yield/submit to God's will] and self-discipline ourselves. This is your spiritual growth.
3. The final sanctification will happen only in heaven when God will completely remove sin from us. 1 John 3:2b: "...and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when HE shall appear, we shall be like HIM; for we shall see HIM as HE is." This is your eternal state.
We are at no. 2. Our soul is in the process of salvation, of being sanctified. The Bible says: "Be ye holy".
The salvation of the soul is probably the most misunderstood concept in Christianity today. This may sound incredible, since virtually every church-going Christian thinks that his understanding of soul salvation is correct, but only a handful of Christians has bothered to check out the Scriptures to see what soul salvation really means. It matters not what preachers say about soul salvation, if the Scriptures say something different. Spirit and soul are not the same in the Bible. The following Scripture clearly establishes that soul and spirit are not the same:
1 Th 5:23 (KJV) And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
It...helps to confirm that spirit salvation differs from soul salvation. Spirit salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ plus nothing. The following Scripture about Paul and Silas confirms this:
Acts 16:30-31 (KJV) (30) And (the Philippian jailer) brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? (31) And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Spirit salvation is very simple. One simply believes that Jesus Christ died for his sins. One can do nothing to earn this salvation. It is a gift from God, and the Holy Spirit even provides the faith. However, the Scriptures go into great detail regarding soul salvation, which should occur after spirit salvation.
The Scriptures are also clear that effort or striving is necessary for soul salvation. The following Scripture confirms this:
James 1:21 (KJV) Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
James 1:21 (ASV 1901) Wherefore putting away all filthiness and overflowing of wickedness, receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
This Scripture is addressing believers and it states that a believer can save his soul by getting rid of sin in his life and studying and obeying the inspired scriptures. This requirement differs from Acts 16:30-31. Spirit salvation and soul salvation are not the same.
The difference between spirit salvation and soul salvation is the difference between grace and works. The spirit is saved by faith in Jesus Christ, while the soul is saved by faithfulness to Jesus Christ. Soul salvation does not determine whether a person enters heaven, but it does determine his reward in heaven. Some Christians will enter heaven with no reward because of unfaithfulness to Jesus. The following Scripture confirms this:
1 Cor 3:13-15 (KJV) (13) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. (14) If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. (15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
The following Scripture also confirms that soul salvation is the result of works:
1 Pet 1:7-9 (KJV) (7) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: (8) Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: (9) Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
This Scripture is addressed to believers who have faith that has matured, and when tested at the return of Jesus, will be found to be as precious as gold resulting in praise, honor and glory from the Lord Jesus Christ. This results in the saving of their souls or reward for being faithful.
In the following Scripture, Jesus explains the requirement for soul salvation:
Mat 16:24-27 (KJV) (24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. (25) For whosoever will save his life (psuche) shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life (psuche) for my sake shall find it. (26) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul (psuche)? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul (psuche)? (27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Please note that the Greek word for life and soul is the same word psuche throughout this passage of Scripture. Jesus is telling His disciples about soul salvation and how it determines their reward for successfully crucifying the old flesh nature. This passage of Scripture clearly establishes that soul salvation is according to works.
Spirit and soul are not the same. The soul is what a person is in regard to his character or his person. It is possible for a person to be totally changed as a person and in character. The reason for this is that the soul is a person's mind, emotions, intellect, will and heart. It is what kind of person he is in life. This is why the Greek word psuche is alternately translated as life or soul.
It is possible for a person to lose his soul in this life and be a totally different person. This happens when a person lives according to his new spirit nature, which never sins (1 John 3:9), instead of his old flesh nature, which can do nothing good. Therefore, the Christian who loses his soul in order to save it is the faithful, spiritual Christian who will receive a reward at the Judgment Seat of Christ when the Christian's works will be tried by fire. The souls of Christians who continued to live according to their old flesh nature will be lost (i.e., THE SOULS will perish or be destroyed), and they will receive no reward. Their spirits—which are born of God—will still be saved, and they will still receive a redeemed body. The redeemed body will live in complete submission to the spirit, so the soul (i.e., personality, character and mind) of these believers will be totally different in heaven. Their souls will perish, but they will be completely and totally redeemed.
There will be Christians who will be disqualified as the Bride of Christ, and they will lose their inheritance as a coheir with Jesus Christ. They will still be in heaven, and they will be totally forgiven for all their sins. Christians who had lived their lives as gluttons will no longer be gluttons. Christians who had lived lives as busybodies and gossips will no longer be that way. Christians who were liars will no longer be liars. Christians who were pharisaical and self-righteous will no longer be that way.
In like manner, Christians who participated in drunkenness will no longer be drunkards. Christians who committed homosexual acts will no longer be homosexual. Christians who were adulterers will no longer be adulterers. Christians caught up in seeking after wealth and material possessions will no longer be worldly minded. All of these Christians will have lost their souls, but they will have new souls. Simply stated, their lives will be totally different, but they will have no positions of honor and glory in the reign of Jesus Christ.
End of part 1"
quote eaglesway: "This is pretty much exactly where I have come to rest after many years of study- and reading the studies of others. Soul salvation is the critical and misunderstood issue. The best book I ever read on the subject is Watchman Nee's "The Release of the Spirit"."
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 17, 2012, 07:25:01 PM
Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Why are only 2 'components' mentioned in that verse if there are 3?
To me those components are simply the power and the dust. These components are borrowed in order for the spirit ,soul and body to exist on earth. Then after dying the person gives back the dust to the earth and gives back the energy, chi, breath to God.
The spirit cannot mean in this verse, the human spirit because this is an old testament scripture before the blood atonment.
Simply being a human being as this verse implies is not enough to be saved, one must call upon the name of Jesus.
Quote from: thinktank on October 17, 2012, 11:10:18 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 17, 2012, 07:25:01 PM
Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Why are only 2 'components' mentioned in that verse if there are 3?
To me those components are simply the power and the dust. These components are borrowed in order for the spirit ,soul and body to exist on earth. Then after dying the person gives back the dust to the earth and gives back the energy, chi, breath to God.
The spirit cannot mean in this verse, the human spirit because this is an old testament scripture before the blood atonment.
Simply being a human being as this verse implies is not enough to be saved, one must call upon the name of Jesus.
Good post.
Thanks so much Jabcat... I must run, but will be back tomorrow to print this treasure. Also, it was good to be reminded of Watchman Nee... his book re: sit, stand, walk was one of the first books that lead me to a prolonged study of the book of Ephesians and I'm so happy I no longer have to sit, walk, stand among the ungodly (Ps 1:1)...but am seated in heavenly places in Christ... truly I rejoice in being a forgiven sinner...
Quote from: Molly on October 17, 2012, 08:27:44 PM
Only people who have never left their bodies think the soul=the body.
What's the soul according to you?
Quote from: goodreport on October 17, 2012, 11:20:27 PM
Thanks so much Jabcat... I must run, but will be back tomorrow to print this treasure. Also, it was good to be reminded of Watchman Nee... his book re: sit, stand, walk was one of the first books that lead me to a prolonged study of the book of Ephesians and I'm so happy I no longer have to sit, walk, stand among the ungodly (Ps 1:1)...but am seated in heavenly places in Christ... truly I rejoice in being a forgiven sinner...
You're welcome. Amen. :thumbsup:
Quote from: jabcat on October 17, 2012, 11:07:47 PM
Ah, found it. Here's the post from about a year or so ago, along with eaglesway's note at the bottom;
jabcat said; "Note - I am NOT saying this is 100% without question exact doctrine. I do think it has a lot of merit, some good potential for learning, and good for discussion.
Information from various sources, including C Miclaus and L Mize
Intro: The Word of God speaks about the salvation of man in three tenses: past, present, and future. Christians have been saved; Christians are being saved; and Christians will be saved. In Ephesians 2:8,9 of the Holy Bible, salvation is described as being a past, completed act. 1 Corinthians 1:18 states that salvation is a present, continuous work; and in Hebrews 1:14, salvation is an inherited possession for the future:
We already know from the Bible that in order to have access to Heaven/New Jerusalem, a person must be saved. Now, usually, when we say that a person was saved, we mean that person accepted Christ into his life. Now, let me say that even though you were saved (at a specific time and place), you are still in the process of salvation. Your spirit is saved, but some other parts of you are not yet saved. The Bible says: "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21) Yes, that is true, your soul is not saved yet!
Salvation takes place in three times: past, present and future. You were saved (that is your spirit) when you admitted you are a sinner and accepted Jesus as your personal Savor; that was in the past. You are in the process of salvation, now, in the present (salvation of the soul). And, you will be saved in the future, when God will completely take away sin from you (that is your body).
You might say, well, I think my soul is saved. I want to ask you to reconsider that. All those bad thoughts about your neighbor, wife, husband, parents, somebody from the church – do they come out of a saved soul??? I don't think so! When you hate somebody – is that the proof of a saved soul? Is everything that your mind thinks and your heart feels proof of salvation? Not in my case, at least! John, the apostle, says in 1 John 3:9, that "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." Well, you say, 'I am saved', 'I am a child of God', but the Bible says what is born of God cannot sin.
Do you sin? I do. What does that mean? Before answering, let me tell you that in this particular verse, John is referring to our spirit. Our spirit that was born from God cannot sin. And that is so true, your spirit and mine cannot sin. Why? Because it was born from God. It is His seed – and His seed cannot sin. In order to see what is not saved yet, just think of the sources of sin in yourself. One of them is your soul. Loving in a way we're not supposed to, hating others – just show us how sinful our soul is. And if something is sinful, that something needs salvation, it needs to be changed by God.
The Bible calls the salvation of the soul, sanctification. To sanctify means to make something that is sinful into a saint; it means to be "set apart" for God, for His service. This is the process through which the believer is gradually set away from sin, and becomes more and more dedicated to the standard of God's righteousness. Titus 2:14 makes that so clear: "Who gave himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." This process takes place every day, every moment, until God will decide to move us to His glory.
In the Bible, we see three different aspects of sanctification:
1. The instantly sanctification is the position the believer receives in front of God the moment he accepts Jesus through faith. 1 Corinthians 6:11: "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." This is you position before God.
2. Progressive sanctification is the process of a man growing in righteousness; it is what "takes us ever higher" and "releases us ever more from under the power of sin." 2 Corinthians 7:1b: "...let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." The New Testament doesn't have any shortcut to sanctification; it only encourages us to just dedicate to the old-fashioned but honored reading of the Bible and to meditate, pray, worship, [yield/submit to God's will] and self-discipline ourselves. This is your spiritual growth.
3. The final sanctification will happen only in heaven when God will completely remove sin from us. 1 John 3:2b: "...and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when HE shall appear, we shall be like HIM; for we shall see HIM as HE is." This is your eternal state.
We are at no. 2. Our soul is in the process of salvation, of being sanctified. The Bible says: "Be ye holy".
The salvation of the soul is probably the most misunderstood concept in Christianity today. This may sound incredible, since virtually every church-going Christian thinks that his understanding of soul salvation is correct, but only a handful of Christians has bothered to check out the Scriptures to see what soul salvation really means. It matters not what preachers say about soul salvation, if the Scriptures say something different. Spirit and soul are not the same in the Bible. The following Scripture clearly establishes that soul and spirit are not the same:
1 Th 5:23 (KJV) And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
It...helps to confirm that spirit salvation differs from soul salvation. Spirit salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ plus nothing. The following Scripture about Paul and Silas confirms this:
Acts 16:30-31 (KJV) (30) And (the Philippian jailer) brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? (31) And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Spirit salvation is very simple. One simply believes that Jesus Christ died for his sins. One can do nothing to earn this salvation. It is a gift from God, and the Holy Spirit even provides the faith. However, the Scriptures go into great detail regarding soul salvation, which should occur after spirit salvation.
The Scriptures are also clear that effort or striving is necessary for soul salvation. The following Scripture confirms this:
James 1:21 (KJV) Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
James 1:21 (ASV 1901) Wherefore putting away all filthiness and overflowing of wickedness, receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
This Scripture is addressing believers and it states that a believer can save his soul by getting rid of sin in his life and studying and obeying the inspired scriptures. This requirement differs from Acts 16:30-31. Spirit salvation and soul salvation are not the same.
The difference between spirit salvation and soul salvation is the difference between grace and works. The spirit is saved by faith in Jesus Christ, while the soul is saved by faithfulness to Jesus Christ. Soul salvation does not determine whether a person enters heaven, but it does determine his reward in heaven. Some Christians will enter heaven with no reward because of unfaithfulness to Jesus. The following Scripture confirms this:
1 Cor 3:13-15 (KJV) (13) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. (14) If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. (15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
The following Scripture also confirms that soul salvation is the result of works:
1 Pet 1:7-9 (KJV) (7) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: (8) Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: (9) Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
This Scripture is addressed to believers who have faith that has matured, and when tested at the return of Jesus, will be found to be as precious as gold resulting in praise, honor and glory from the Lord Jesus Christ. This results in the saving of their souls or reward for being faithful.
In the following Scripture, Jesus explains the requirement for soul salvation:
Mat 16:24-27 (KJV) (24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. (25) For whosoever will save his life (psuche) shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life (psuche) for my sake shall find it. (26) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul (psuche)? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul (psuche)? (27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Please note that the Greek word for life and soul is the same word psuche throughout this passage of Scripture. Jesus is telling His disciples about soul salvation and how it determines their reward for successfully crucifying the old flesh nature. This passage of Scripture clearly establishes that soul salvation is according to works.
Spirit and soul are not the same. The soul is what a person is in regard to his character or his person. It is possible for a person to be totally changed as a person and in character. The reason for this is that the soul is a person's mind, emotions, intellect, will and heart. It is what kind of person he is in life. This is why the Greek word psuche is alternately translated as life or soul.
It is possible for a person to lose his soul in this life and be a totally different person. This happens when a person lives according to his new spirit nature, which never sins (1 John 3:9), instead of his old flesh nature, which can do nothing good. Therefore, the Christian who loses his soul in order to save it is the faithful, spiritual Christian who will receive a reward at the Judgment Seat of Christ when the Christian's works will be tried by fire. The souls of Christians who continued to live according to their old flesh nature will be lost (i.e., THE SOULS will perish or be destroyed), and they will receive no reward. Their spirits—which are born of God—will still be saved, and they will still receive a redeemed body. The redeemed body will live in complete submission to the spirit, so the soul (i.e., personality, character and mind) of these believers will be totally different in heaven. Their souls will perish, but they will be completely and totally redeemed.
There will be Christians who will be disqualified as the Bride of Christ, and they will lose their inheritance as a coheir with Jesus Christ. They will still be in heaven, and they will be totally forgiven for all their sins. Christians who had lived their lives as gluttons will no longer be gluttons. Christians who had lived lives as busybodies and gossips will no longer be that way. Christians who were liars will no longer be liars. Christians who were pharisaical and self-righteous will no longer be that way.
In like manner, Christians who participated in drunkenness will no longer be drunkards. Christians who committed homosexual acts will no longer be homosexual. Christians who were adulterers will no longer be adulterers. Christians caught up in seeking after wealth and material possessions will no longer be worldly minded. All of these Christians will have lost their souls, but they will have new souls. Simply stated, their lives will be totally different, but they will have no positions of honor and glory in the reign of Jesus Christ.
End of part 1"
quote eaglesway: "This is pretty much exactly where I have come to rest after many years of study- and reading the studies of others. Soul salvation is the critical and misunderstood issue. The best book I ever read on the subject is Watchman Nee's "The Release of the Spirit"."
Excellent,points made about the soul. I remember a few years ago saying that the soul is one aspect that universal salvation may not cover. That those who are not saved lose their soul, fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell and maybe that is why they end up in the same place as satan, because satan does not have a soul either, and maybe they spirits will be purified until they are fit to be given new souls/body.
Although the post you made is coming at a slightly different angle I think, as it concerns believers losing their soul as opposed to non believers.
I perceive though that perhaps a good person non believer, since they have done good works hospital work etc, might retain their soul during the great white throne judgment in rev20, because good and evil works are the subject brought up and not about believing or non believing .
Remember your Creator before the silver cord is cut.
That's when the golden bowl will be broken.
The wheel will be broken at the well.
The pitcher will be smashed at the spring.
--ecc 12
When the silver cord is cut, you 'die.'
There are three parts which are affected by death:
golden bowl
wheel
pitcher
How are they affected?
the golden bowl is broken---->the body, vessel for honor or dishonor
That one is easy.
the wheel broken at the well. The wheel turns and brings the water up from the well. When it is broken, no more water. Is this the spirit?
the pitcher smashed at the spring. It can no longer be filled with water. Is this the soul?
John 4:14 but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."
I wanted to give this little summary of this line of thinking anyway, it fits the last 2 comments, so here goes;
spirit - the spirit God gives us, and is saved when God visits each individual, convicts of need for a Savior, believes/calls on Jesus (every knee will bow). The salvation of this puts us legally in right standing with God - His righteousness bestowed upon us through grace and the work of the cross - free gift received
soul - "who we are", our sentient being. i.e., our thoughts, feelings, character, behavior - some will keep their soul through obedience and surrender, most will lose it and all that will be left is the spirit. (That's why some can be a believer yet be carnal, as Paul preached to the Corinthians. Even though they were failing in many areas (read, sinning) while instructing them in their need to walk in the Spirit (rather than in their carnality [the flesh]and grow in grace and knowledge (knock off the sinning, "that shouldn't even be mentioned") he called them SAINTS.
body - literal flesh, which will be put off and mortal take on immortality (may be some debate over when/how this occurs, which judgment/resurrection, etc.)
:Chinscratch:
Quotethe pitcher smashed at the spring. It can no longer be filled with water. Is this the soul?
After death the spirit returns to Father.
Contents of pitcher is water.
Father = Spring (of life) --> Water
Pither contains water. If smashed at the spring the water flows back into the spring (returning spirit)
Quotethe golden bowl is broken---->the body, vessel for honor or dishonor
Pitcher can also be broken. Even easier I would say. Pitchers are often made of clay. ---> Dust.
Golden bowls don't break.
BTW many the pitcher, wheel and bowl aren't describing body, soul and spirit at all.
They all describe the same thing. Dying/death.
Another interpretation:
(21) Or ever the silver cord be loosed,
The silver cord is that spiritual cord which connects man to his God the same way an umbilical cord connects the baby to its mother.
(22) Or the golden bowl be broken,
The skull is called the golden bowl, from it's yellow color.
(23) Or the pitcher be broken at the fountain,
The pitcher is the great vein which carries the blood to the ventricle of the heart, here called the fountain.
(24) Or the wheel broken at the cistern,
The wheel represents the aorta or great artery which receives the blood from the ventricle of the heart or the cistern and distributes it through the body.
http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/ecclesiastes-12_1_an_explanation.htm
A few random thoughts;
if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature. old things passed away, all things become new. Is that just talking about the spirit since we are still clay, including our human nature and body (i.e., soul still being saved)? or does that do away with the soul part of the equation, making that piece of the teaching not work? and/or is the proper translation "becoming new"?
the man (from the Corinthian church?) turned over for the destruction of the flesh (carnality, or literal flesh?) so his spirit saved in the day of the Lord
In the book of John, he does this at the last supper:
8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean,
--John 13
26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by ithe washing of water with the word, Eph 5:26
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1Cor 6:11
5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Titus 2
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 18, 2012, 12:21:30 AM
Another interpretation:
(21) Or ever the silver cord be loosed,
The silver cord is that spiritual cord which connects man to his God the same way an umbilical cord connects the baby to its mother.
(22) Or the golden bowl be broken,
The skull is called the golden bowl, from it's yellow color.
(23) Or the pitcher be broken at the fountain,
The pitcher is the great vein which carries the blood to the ventricle of the heart, here called the fountain.
(24) Or the wheel broken at the cistern,
The wheel represents the aorta or great artery which receives the blood from the ventricle of the heart or the cistern and distributes it through the body.
http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/ecclesiastes-12_1_an_explanation.htm
The silver cord is actually what connects us to our physical body. I've seen it. [I saw it years before I read about it in the Bible] You are right. It's like an umbilical cord. I have to assume when it's cut, we are no longer connected to our physical body, which is then, dead.
I'm surprised you haven't looked to the Temple for the others. The golden bowl=the laver=the outer court? The pitcher=carries the oil for the candles=the inner court? The wheel=the wheels on the cherubim=the Holy of Holies?
It was near bedtime when I read your post/this thread.
I didn't think of the Temple but about the water drawing ceremony.
About your your "suggestion"about the Temple. Dunno I have to look into that.
Quote from: MollyHow are they affected?
the golden bowl is broken---->the body, vessel for honor or dishonor
That one is easy.
the wheel broken at the well. The wheel turns and brings the water up from the well. When it is broken, no more water. Is this the spirit?
the pitcher smashed at the spring. It can no longer be filled with water. Is this the soul?
You didn't answer my reply to that post Molly.
Quote from: jabcat on October 18, 2012, 12:31:01 AM
A few random thoughts;
if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature. old things passed away, all things become new. Is that just talking about the spirit since we are still clay,
I agree, it can't be about the body. It's about what's inside that counts. It's not about glorified bodies that look vastly different.
Quoteincluding our human nature and body (i.e., soul still being saved)? or does that do away with the soul part of the equation, making that piece of the teaching not work? and/or is the proper translation "becoming new"?
I think it's always about 'becoming'. Not everyone in Christ is at the highest possible level. Still room for growth. But the growing, learning, becoming, etc is about the body being trained like an athlete does for sport. The body gets worse and worse. Getting old :winkgrin:
Quotethe man (from the Corinthian church?) turned over for the destruction of the flesh (carnality, or literal flesh?) so his spirit saved in the day of the Lord
If literal flesh of that/a man is destroyed that whole man is destroyed. So imo it's about the personality, ways, thoughts, etc that hinder spiritual awakening, growth or whatever you want to call it.
It's not about the vessel but what's inside of that vessel.