Tentmaker Forum

I posted this in "Word Studies" although my post doesn't really qualify as a study I hope it becomes one if the thread goes....

Revelation 20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

3041 li,mnh limne {lim'-nay}
Meaning:  1) a lake
Origin:   probably from 3040  (through the idea of nearness of shore);; n f
A ocean sounds dangerous. But a lake has a more cozy feeling to it.
And near the shore. That for me means the swimmers can quite easily get out.
As opposed being dumped in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean

3040 limh,n limen {lee-mane'}
Meaning:  1) a harbour, haven
Origin:  apparently a root word;; n m
Usage:  AV - haven 2, the fair havens + 2570 1; 3

The root word of that lake is even more safe.
It's a harbor. A safe place. The average sailor wants to be in harbor during storm instead of the middle of the Atlantic.

So people are thrown in a fire at a safe place. It almost sounds like the ones are being protected instead of punished in LoF

---

Why a 'lake' of fire? Of the commentators we have consulted, none make any reference to this particular word, to its meaning or to the reason for its use. The Greek word translated 'lake' is limne. Parkhurst says that the word indicates a lake of standing water, as opposed to a running stream, and
is so called from lian menein, ['remaining very quiet'], so the Latin stagnum, a pool. Schrevelius reads limne, a port, harbour, haven, station, refuge, accusative limena; as if lian menei, because there the ships rest in safety; hence limenarches, harbour master. Limne occurs in the LXX in Psalm 107:30,
'haven', Psalm 107:35; 114:8, 'a standing water', Song of Solomon,
'fishpools'. The word occurs in the New Testament ten times and is always translated 'lake'. Apart from the five references in the Revelation, the
remainder occur in Luke's Gospel, 5:1,2; 8:22,23,33, the lake Gennesaret,
elsewhere called the Sea of Galilee, and the sea and lake of Tiberias, and in the Old Testament the sea of Chinnereth.

---

I have to admit ETs don't describe hell as huge waves; but describing something as very quiet has a peaceful feeling to it. Not a real warning. I'm aware there is a difference between quiet as in sound and as in no waves.
But still I find it odd that the only description of "hell" is described with positive words like: lake, pond, near a shore, safety, very quiet, etc
I'm not a linguist but for me explaining eternal extreme torture with cuddly words is odd at best.

Hmm, I heard this before, and I found it as interesting then as I do now.

I do wonder, though: is it indeed the case that the word necessarily carries with it the safe, quiet, protective connotations that you describe?  Not saying what you say isn't true - I just want to make sure that what you describe is indeed correct, as it's an incredibly beautiful thought if so. :smile:

Wel Gab, I just put it here for concideration. It's very well possible I've taken this word game a little to far...
I just took the definitions from dictionaries. I have to assume those definitions are correct because I'm totally uskilled to verify them. And with so many definitions it's a bit of pick and choose.
However the definitions come from Strong. I don't think he was a URist. Merriam-Webster is secular so they don't care one way or another.

Well, it certainly sits right with me; I was just curious if there was any other evidence for that interpretation.

Very nice thought nonetheless, though. :smile:

Just moments ago I was reading a post I made yesterday. Lake of THE fire (click here) (http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=7579.msg87678#msg87678)
That post made me think of this thread; and I tried to align them.
What if......

Father is often described as a fire = volcano in the middle of LoF/dead sea?
Water flows from His throne = water of the LoF/dead sea?

Does this (combination) make any sense to someone....?

 :cloud9: yes it does, WW......the ascended Lord sat at the right hand of the Father, from where He shed forth that which was seen and heard in Pentecost, ie. tongues of FIRE. I posted to your other thread about His love being as LAVA.

These things of fire were seen on Mt. Sinai as well, which was a wedding and Pentecost is as us coming to the mount of the Lord and being SALTED with fire. Sacrifices were often salted. We BECOME the sacrifice, which is why Paul said to make of ourselves a living sacrifice. So yes it all fits in. Blessings....

 

Tis a good job Tony !  you have good words to express ,  some dont 
I am one who struggles with that 

  Your got me  with the  Sodom and  Gomorrah  thread 

   knowing  the'' seed of Christ'' that  remains in us / earth  is incorruptible  WORD OF GOD     or none  would have remained


Sodom = "burning"
1) a city destroyed by the Lord raining fire and brimstone on it

2) metaph. Jerusalem Rev. 11:8
Gomorrha = "submersion"
1) a city in eastern part of Judah that was destroyed when the Lord rained fire and brimstone on it; now covered by the Dead Sea

For he will finish the work, and cut [it] short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.


     Paul is speaking of Isaiah 1    ;9 mainly

  it is the lake of fire effect    buring submersion   the  calling down  the fire  from heaven for rejecting Jesus Christ ...

  is what the sons of thunder was wanting to do   James and John ,  yet the Lord told them  they did not know what manner of spirit they were of ...   the Lord come to save lives not destroy them 
  I do believe that is why when the seven thunders  began to utter their voices   the Voice out of heaven   told John to seal it up and not write it down   till the voice of the seventh angel  sounds than the mystery  of God would be finnished ..   7  the  complete  work

9Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
10Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

11To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

12When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

13Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

14Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

15And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

16Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

17Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

19If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

20But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.



Rom 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.


What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

  Rom 9:33   As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed

Quote from: rosered on January 02, 2010, 08:15:03 PM
Your got me  with the  Sodom and  Gomorrah  thread

Can't remeber that thread?

QuoteSodom = "burning"
1) a city destroyed by the Lord raining fire and brimstone on it

2) metaph. Jerusalem Rev. 11:8
Gomorrha = "submersion"
1) a city in eastern part of Judah that was destroyed when the Lord rained fire and brimstone on it; now covered by the Dead Sea

I got this:
6017 Amorah
Meaning:  Gomorrah = "submersion" 1) the twin-city in evil with Sodom, both destroyed in judgment by God with fire from heaven 1a) of iniquity (fig.)

5467 Cedom
Meaning:  Sodom = "burning" 1) a Canaanite city, usually paired with Gomorrah, located in the area of the Dead Sea and the Jordan river; both cities destroyed by God in judgment
=> Destruction by fire

0126 Admah
Meaning:  Admah = "red earth" 1) city in the Siddim valley

6636 Tsebo'iym or (more correctly) Tsebiyiym  or Tsebiyim
Meaning:  Zeboim or Zeboiim = "gazelles" 1) one of the 5 cities in the plain which included Sodom and Gomorrah


3962 Lesha
Meaning:  Lasha = "fissure" 1) a place in the southeast of Palestine at the limit of the Canaanites territory, near Sodom and Gomorrah
Origin:  from an unused root thought to mean to break through;; n pr loc

Shame I still am unable to quote Hebrew. Would make it more readable.
Anyway Sodom, Gomorrah and Lasha indicate seismic activity.
Adamah and Zeboim seems to show it was not always a wasteland.

 :cloud9: WW, the pitch the ark was pitched with, also ties in with your study, and with the Spirit anointings (inward and outward), FYI.......blessings....

Quote from: Cardinal on January 02, 2010, 11:23:54 PM
:cloud9: WW, the pitch the ark was pitched with, also ties in with your study, and with the Spirit anointings (inward and outward), FYI.......blessings....

".... I pitched my tent..."

But how does that tie in?
Flood - preserves inside (Ark) - destroys outside (Ark)
LoF - preserves inside  (Soul/Good) - destroys outside (Body/Sin)

 :cloud9: It ties in because it is a PRESERVATIVE, and in principle is the same as the inward anointing of gold and the outward anointing of gold, of the Ark of the covenant. And since those are representative of the workings of the Spirit of God, it ties in.

Even the sides of that ark are related in words to the sides of the tabernacle and our RIBS. Basically, He is building another ark, this time a spiritual one, that is designed to take us above the waters below the firmament sparing us the destruction it brings.

This is also why they were told not to use a certain kind of mortar in building. That which binds His body together is the Holy Ghost and because it comes as fire, is typified with salt and things that burn. They were told not to use untempered mortar. Tempered is as the HG. The principle is that the HG fire SANCTIFIES the offering (us). Blessings....

SDM, "Sodom," is the word for bitumin, asphalt, pitch;

and, oversimplifying, "Gomorah" is "Omer", an ancient dry measurement of about 7 pints; the word implies a heap, and secondarily a sheaf.

According to my understanding:
Sodom=burning (heap)
Gomorrah=Submersion
One of the other cities is called Lasha=fissure

Most likely it are not the original names of the cities, but renamed to describe the destruction.

Somehow I dont find words such as haven, harbor, pond so out of place when I stop and reason that Father is LOVE, that He loves His children, the obiedent and the disobedient. His purpose is restoration, reviving, this is LOVE.
Wrath  G2372
thumos
From G2380; passion (as if breathing hard): - fierceness, indignation, wrath. Compare G5590.
G5590
psuchē
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul(????); and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

Joh 12:24  verily, verily, I say to you, if the grain of the wheat, having fallen to the earth, may not die, itself remaineth alone; and if it may die, it doth bear much fruit;

Quote from: micah7:9 on July 01, 2010, 06:33:27 AMSomehow I dont find words such as haven, harbor, pond so out of place when I stop and reason that Father is LOVE,

I agree. Maybe I'm 100% right. Maybe totally wrong because those words got their new meaning after the writing of those verses. The problem with words is that's often very hard to figure out the meaning at the time of Jesus.
According to some LoF = Dead Sea. Standing water; yes. Harbor; yes. But to large for  pond or harbor.
How did the audience of Jesus understood the words?
Take for example the early Christian art with the title: "The Three Hebrews in the Fiery Furnace"
(http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/Images/ARTH212images/Early_Christian/Painting/Catacombs/3Hebrewsm.jpg)
It looks as they are dancing?

Their pose is exactly as "Daniel in the Lions' Den:"
(http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/Images/ARTH212images/Early_Christian/Painting/Catacombs/danielM.jpg)

willieH: Hidee -- howdee...  :laughing7:

My  :2c: ....

Scripture is always needed to reveal meaning in other Scripture, especially the SYMBOLISM we find in Scripture --- such as terminologies as the "Lake of FIRE", which concerning the WORD, exclusively appears within SYMBOLIC text...

The words "Lake of FIRE" are embedded in symbolism... and are intimately concerned with the REVELATION of the [WORD of GOD] JESUS CHRIST...



The "Lake of FIRE" mentioned in Revelation... is NOT a (literal) LAKE and it is NOT on (literal) FIRE...


John 1:9 -- [that] was the true LIGHT, which LIGHTETH every man that cometh into the world.

"Light" is indeed a factor of "FIRE"...


Heb 12:29 -- for OUR GOD is a CONSUMING FIRE...

That which is therefore IN Him is being CONSUMED...


Acts 17:28 -- for ...IN HIM... we live, and move and HAVE OUR BEING...

We are IN HIM [A spirit], which IS a [spiritual] "FIRE"... and amidst that which CONSUMES, that which is within it...

We are therefore IN the LAKE of FIRE which consumes... and IS the 2nd death... which is the conclusion of PHYSICAL life... ending any ties with it, for ever.

Compelling ALL the DUST which is given LIFE, to return to its state of origin... by eventually, CONSUMING the LIFE which has been given to that DUST...

Quote from: WhiteWings on April 19, 2010, 10:48:30 AM
According to my understanding:
Sodom=burning (heap)
Gomorrah=Submersion
One of the other cities is called Lasha=fissure

Most likely it are not the original names of the cities, but renamed to describe the destruction.

Just help on both sides.
Sodom H5467 sedôm From an unused root meaning to scorch; burnt
Gomarrah H6017 ‛ămôrâh a (ruined) heap