in place of/anti Christ

[WhiteWings]

Got something rather unorthodox for ye all :winkgrin:


^EBRMatthew 2
22 Hearing, however, that, Archelaus, was reigning over Judaea instead of his father Herod, he was afraid, thither, to go,––and so, being instructed by dream, he retired into the parts of Galilee;

ἀντί
anti
Thayer Definition:
1) over against, opposite to, before
2) for, instead of, in place of (something)
2a) instead of
2b) for
2c) for that, because
2d) wherefore, for this cause
Part of Speech: preposition
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: a primary particle
Citing in TDNT: 1:372, 61

Was Archelaus ruling "1) over against, opposite to," Herod? Or just "2) for, instead of, in place of (something)"

The same Greek word "anti" is used in "anti-Christ".
Is this anti-Christ the complete opposite of Jesus? Satan/devil in orthodox teachings.
When Archelaus was ruling Judea he didn't oppose Herod. He got his real power after Herod died.
So we could call Archelaus 'anti-king' or 'anti-Herod'
In this example anti certainly doesn't mean against. Herod was very paranoid and would certainly have ordered the death of anyone that even remotely challanged his authority.

^EBR1 John 2
18 Little children! it is, the last hour; and, just as ye have heard that, an antichrist, is coming, even now, antichrists have become, many, whence we perceive that it is, the last hour:

Are those many antichrist really opposistion of Jesus? Or are they helping Jesus?
Whatever it means there are many of them. That means it can't be big bad satan who usually is pictured as a single person/spirit/angel/entity/...

[WhiteWings]

All verses with the Greek word anti.

Matt 2:22 But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither : notwithstanding, being warned of God in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee :
Matt 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth :
Matt 17:27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money : that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
Matt 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Mark 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Luke 1:20 And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.
Luke 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone ? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent ?
Luke 12:3 Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.
Luke 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
John 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Acts 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory : and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.
Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
1Cor 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her : for her hair is given her for a covering.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
1Thess 5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
2Thess 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Jas 4:15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
1Pet 3:9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing : but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Paul said many anti-christs had gone into the world, THEN. So what "world" is a microcosm of the macrocosm? Answer: US. So with that in mind, here's another unorthodox thought for you. Anti meaning AGAINST, as in next to. The anti-christs are as the darkness that covers Him IN US, that must be removed (our own personal Armaggedon). As such, they are AGAINST Christ, keeping our light from shining. My  :2c:

[Beloved Servant]

(our own personal Armaggedon)

As the horses ride!

[Molly]

antichrist--meaning in the place of Christ.

Look at this title for the Pope:

Vicar of Christ

VICAR is from the Latin word vicarius, meaning "a substitute."

"vicarious"

2. suffered, undergone, or done as the substitute for another



4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
--Mat 24

[thinktank]

1 John 2
18 Little children! it is, the last hour; and, just as ye have heard that, an antichrist, is coming, even now, antichrists have become, many, whence we perceive that it is, the last hour:


I like unorthodox too wings, so try this for size.


This verse says it is the last hour, which means Christ has come to the world and accomplished his mission. Now the antichrist is coming, even now even many antichrists.


Satan was alive during the old testament, during Jobs time

The devil came to thief , kill and destroy.

But what does an antichrist do?

An antichrist, sets himself up instead of Christ. It is a fraud a subsitute for Jesus Christ.

John says they went out from US and are coming, and now are, which means they came around Johns time frame.

So these antichrist spirits are .....Christians who have fallen away from the truth and now have invented their own truths, their own religions. So they go around mankind influencing them to reject Jesus as the Son of God, and instead to influence them to join other beliefs.

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[WhiteWings]

antichrist--meaning in the place of Christ.

Look at this title for the Pope:

Vicar of Christ

VICAR is from the Latin word vicarius, meaning "a substitute."

"vicarious"

2. suffered, undergone, or done as the substitute for another



4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
--Mat 24

The ones living in the habitation of dogs have all kinds of fantasies like the pope is allowed to change Jesus teachings. But that's not what my 2 posts are about.
Anti doesn't really mean anti in (large parts of) the NT.
In Dutch and in English too afaik anti means the total opposite. Even in the sense of an enemy.
But in the NT it (often) doesn't have such a strong meaning.
For me ETs are anti christs. They destroy the character/word of God. But not on purpose because they love God.
What I'm trying to say that there are many shades of gray between black and white. The antichrists likely are grey not black...  :msealed:

[WhiteWings]

1 John 2
18 Little children! it is, the last hour; and, just as ye have heard that, an antichrist, is coming, even now, antichrists have become, many, whence we perceive that it is, the last hour:

Does someone know an OT reference to the 'last hour'?
I wouldn't be suprised at all if 'last hour' points to some OT teaching. Or a parallel with an OT event.

[WhiteWings]

So these antichrist spirits are .....Christians who have fallen away from the truth and now have invented their own truths, their own religions.

I can agree with that TT.  I wrote nearly the same thing before I read your reply.

[Molly]

The antichrist is a deceiver which makes him an imposter and an opponent of Christ.  This is a spirit which will fill 'many.'

This is not a grey area.  An imposter knows what he is doing.  I think ET's are honestly professing what they believe.  But the spirit of the antichrist is opposing Christ on purpose--By opposing Christ, he means to stand in the place of Christ.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The antichrists have no choice BUT to come, because the wheat and the tares are raised up together. He rains on the just and the unjust; He gives both life to create a "choose ye this day" scenario. They are a tool in His hand, proving the hearts of all.

Want to perceive it in action? The first thought that comes in opposition to something YOU KNOW the Lord told you to do or say, is an antichrist spirit. Satan comes immediately to steal the Word (His Spirit breathed Word) from your heart, again, because the wheat and the tares are raised up together.

Sometimes they are already in you, sometimes on the outside of you, waiting to gain entrance by the choice that you make. When He says He makes our bands stronger, these are the bands He's talking about. My  :2c: Blessings....

[jabcat]

:cloud9: The antichrists have no choice BUT to come, because the wheat and the tares are raised up together. He rains on the just and the unjust; He gives both life to create a "choose ye this day" scenario. They are a tool in His hand, proving the hearts of all.

Want to perceive it in action? The first thought that comes in opposition to something YOU KNOW the Lord told you to do or say, is an antichrist spirit. Satan comes immediately to steal the Word (His Spirit breathed Word) from your heart, again, because the wheat and the tares are raised up together.

Sometimes they are already in you, sometimes on the outside of you, waiting to gain entrance by the choice that you make. When He says He makes our bands stronger, these are the bands He's talking about. My  :2c: Blessings....

There's quite a bit to this topic, but   :thumbsup: on this input.   

As Tony quoted, John said there are many anti-christs, and "they've already come"/[are here].   Some say Nero was THE antichrist, but I tend to think he was one (significant one) of many.    "in place of"     :2c:

[WhiteWings]

James I didn't try to point to any leader like Nero. How much is many? There have been far less leaders than common people.
Also read this verse very closely and tell me if you see 2 types of antichrists. a huge group and a leader.

EBR1 John 2
18 Little children! it is, the last hour; and, just as ye have heard that, an antichrist, is coming, even now, antichrists have become, many, whence we perceive that it is, the last hour:

Or is the verse for example just about the 3 former Ceasars and a antichrist a coming ceasar?
Or does the verse simply say: The were, there are and there will be antichrists.

[Molly]

and, just as ye have heard that, an antichrist, is coming, even now, antichrists have become, many, whence we perceive that it is, the last hour:

When did they hear an antichrist is coming?

He says antichrists have become many.  This would include the Pharisees, imo.

He says by the many antichrists, you can perceive it is the last hour--this could be a double prophecy.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: My  :2c:  In one place Jesus said His hour had not yet come, and He was referring to the cross, ie. where darkness was defeated thru His choice. The last hour, spiritually speaking, is ANY cross type scenario such as what I mentioned above, when a choice is presented between obeying the proceeding word of life that came from the Father's mouth, OR, disobeying.

Choose correctly, and that thing is put to death IN YOUR FLESH, never to raise up again. This is why it says He condemned sin IN THE FLESH. The last hour is the last hour of darkness; He is the morning star that arises in our hearts. And we know this, because He IS the day, no part darkness, so when we overcome by choosing correctly, the NIGHT IS PAST.

This is why we're warned about doing (the same) sin again, and putting Him to an open shame by crucifying Him again. If we overcame something, then HE is free to get down off the cross of that thing and walk in us in newness of life (His).

If we choose to take it back, we put Him back on the cross (of a necessity), because there is no remission of sins without the shedding of blood, and it's HIS blood, we can't overcome without it.

Then we're doing what the Jews did, with continually appearing before the priest for the same sins over and over again, their hearts hardened from lack of repentance and lack of obedience. He does not want us erring as they did. Blessings....

[thinktank]

1 John 2
18 Little children! it is, the last hour; and, just as ye have heard that, an antichrist, is coming, even now, antichrists have become, many, whence we perceive that it is, the last hour:

Does someone know an OT reference to the 'last hour'?
I wouldn't be suprised at all if 'last hour' points to some OT teaching. Or a parallel with an OT event.

Matthew 20

1For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.

2And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.

3And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

4And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.

5Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.

6And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

7They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.

8So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.

9And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.

10But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.

11And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,

12Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

13But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?



If you look at this story and see that those who worked for 11 hours were the Jews, who were hired by God for works to righteousness. But the workers who were standing idel were the gentiles, who were not hired.
But now God says to hire them also.

We can see that the Jews were not happy that the gentiles were given the same privileges and pay packet as the Jews, who laboured for thousands of years to be blessed.

So with what you said wings. If the gentiles represent the workers of the last hour, then John speaks of this same hour perhaps.

[micah7:9]

Its just me, but it sure seems that there is a whole bunch of carnal thinking, man imagination(as in books) and theatrical indulgence as antichrist is presented.  1Jo. 2:18,22 and 1Jo.4:3, and 11Jo.1:7 all have the same DNA from the way I understand it...man, human being, adam, flesh; just which of those mentioned do not want to be "instead" of?  There I go again.
Peace and Love Through Jesus