The word "hell" in and of its self is of pagan origin, how or why the word was embraced into the Holy Writ had to be up to the times, era, age and rulers with the translators probably under orders of it's placement. The word "hell" from its origin means UNSEEN. :2c:
I agree, bro. "Hell," translated from the Greek "hades," literally "unseen," the state of dead souls, is simply an Old English word distorted to mean torture in fire forever by pagan theology coming from Egypt through the Roman Empire to control people with fear. That ancient pagan theology is the systematized deception of orthodox theology today supported by forgery in the translation of scripture. The common misconception of hell is a lie!
http://www.hellisamyth.com/hell-is-a-myth.html (http://www.hellisamyth.com/hell-is-a-myth.html)
http://concordant.org/expohtml/DeathAndJudgment/TheGehennaOfFire.html
...amen... (to all of the above). I am thinking 'hell' was bound up in mankind's old king/priest order of things.. and every city had its 'god'/baal ...yet behind it perhaps, was all the esoteric type things.. the idea of initiation and ascending levels of so called enlightenment (and initiation).
..maybe from the beginning, it was an alternate belief.. did Cain bring an inferior offering because he secretly believed the `live on` lie the adversary had used in Eden?
I think there was an esoteric belief the universe sprang forth from fire.. the spark of life?
...the absolute and true origin of the hell myth is one of those side issues i like to try to chase down every so often.. (obsessed w/ seeing the whole picture? :dontknow: )
"Pagan roots" is, without a doubt, imo, absolutely true.. I think very pre-christian and i equate it with Canaan's baal, Molech.. but don't know if that's accurate or not..
Hey Marie Glen - I like your comment on Molech, as I think that false god is very symbolic of the hell misconception. His altar Topeth was in the Valley of Hinnom, which became translated Gehenna in Greek, which in turn became part of the English mistranslation and misconception when it was translated as hell.
I always find it interesting that it was Josiah - the Man Child - who finally desecrated Topeth...a very symbolic act.
Marie, things are so mixed up - you mention the names of a couple of pagan gods, but did you know that God not only told us not to worship them, but He told us not to even mention their names? In my writings, instead of giving the name of some pagan god or other, I use this formula: [pagan god, name deleted by command of God]. Yet, I note that in the KJV, which many people almost seem to worship, the names of any and all pagan gods are transliterated, but the name of the True God is just rendered as LORD. That's mixed up.
Quote from: Shev on March 29, 2015, 09:04:51 PM
I always find it interesting that it was Josiah - the Man Child - who finally desecrated Topeth...a very symbolic act.
! absolutely! I never noticed that! ..thanks! :gsmile:
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 30, 2015, 02:09:47 AM
Marie, things are so mixed up - you mention the names of a couple of pagan gods, but did you know that God not only told us not to worship them, but He told us not to even mention their names? In my writings, instead of giving the name of some pagan god or other, I use this formula: [pagan god, name deleted by command of God].
..that's a good way of your doing it.. :smile:
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 30, 2015, 02:09:47 AM
Yet, I note that in the KJV, which many people almost seem to worship, the names of any and all pagan gods are transliterated, but the name of the True God is just rendered as LORD. That's mixed up.
:Chinscratch: hmmm, that iS a bit curious now isn't it..! :o
I come from Italy, and here the word is Inferno. It comes from the latin word infernus (pron. een-fair-noos), which means 'under earth'. Yes, we could say that the very ancient Jews did not believe in the Afterlife at all, and only in a few centuries they could develop a "metaphysical" world (but only the Pharisees). In fact, the ancient curses and blessings you can find in the Pentateuch always refer either to someone's health, or environment, or life, or children. No-one ever said 'afterlife'.
The Celts believed that the hellgoddes' s name was Hel
The Greeks believed that the hellgod's name was Hades.
Hel in Celtic meant hereafter.
Hades in Greek meant hereafter.
they're both pagan words.
But Hades is not hell (with two l's)
Quote from: Lorenzo on September 21, 2015, 08:45:22 PM
I come from Italy, and here the word is Inferno. It comes from the latin word infernus (pron. een-fair-noos), which means 'under earth'. Yes, we could say that the very ancient Jews did not believe in the Afterlife at all, and only in a few centuries they could develop a "metaphysical" world (but only the Pharisees). In fact, the ancient curses and blessings you can find in the Pentateuch always refer either to someone's health, or environment, or life, or children. No-one ever said 'afterlife'.
Lorenzo, I have noted in my own researches that there is a great inconsistency in the translation of "grave," "pit," "sheol" and the like into "hell." I speak of the KJV, and I think when it aided the translators to establish Hell in people's minds, they rendered it that way. When the context could not be easily twisted, they left it as grave, pit, sheol, or whatever. It is theological (or is that theo-ill-logical?) sleight of hand.
Thanks for the input on "Infernus" - in English, as you probably know, "inferno" has come to mean a raging, intense fire. These theo-ill-logical tricks manage to twist our very language. No wonder God promises us a pure language in the Kingdom.
Quote from: Lazarus Short on November 10, 2015, 09:39:05 PM
Quote from: Lorenzo on September 21, 2015, 08:45:22 PM
I come from Italy, and here the word is Inferno. It comes from the latin word infernus (pron. een-fair-noos), which means 'under earth'. Yes, we could say that the very ancient Jews did not believe in the Afterlife at all, and only in a few centuries they could develop a "metaphysical" world (but only the Pharisees). In fact, the ancient curses and blessings you can find in the Pentateuch always refer either to someone's health, or environment, or life, or children. No-one ever said 'afterlife'.
Lorenzo, I have noted in my own researches that there is a great inconsistency in the translation of "grave," "pit," "sheol" and the like into "hell." I speak of the KJV, and I think when it aided the translators to establish Hell in people's minds, they rendered it that way. When the context could not be easily twisted, they left it as grave, pit, sheol, or whatever. It is theological (or is that theo-ill-logical?) sleight of hand.
Thanks for the input on "Infernus" - in English, as you probably know, "inferno" has come to mean a raging, intense fire. These theo-ill-logical tricks manage to twist our very language. No wonder God promises us a pure language in the Kingdom.
we could translate it as hereafter but many bibles use to translate it as hades/sheol
Quote from: Lazarus Short on November 10, 2015, 09:39:05 PM
Quote from: Lorenzo on September 21, 2015, 08:45:22 PM
I come from Italy, and here the word is Inferno. It comes from the latin word infernus (pron. een-fair-noos), which means 'under earth'. Yes, we could say that the very ancient Jews did not believe in the Afterlife at all, and only in a few centuries they could develop a "metaphysical" world (but only the Pharisees). In fact, the ancient curses and blessings you can find in the Pentateuch always refer either to someone's health, or environment, or life, or children. No-one ever said 'afterlife'.
Lorenzo, I have noted in my own researches that there is a great inconsistency in the translation of "grave," "pit," "sheol" and the like into "hell." I speak of the KJV, and I think when it aided the translators to establish Hell in people's minds, they rendered it that way. When the context could not be easily twisted, they left it as grave, pit, sheol, or whatever. It is theological (or is that theo-ill-logical?) sleight of hand.
Thanks for the input on "Infernus" - in English, as you probably know, "inferno" has come to mean a raging, intense fire. These theo-ill-logical tricks manage to twist our very language. No wonder God promises us a pure language in the Kingdom.
Probably there is no "conspiracy" here, but you are right. I believe this confusion is due to the fact that the translators themselves do have a theological background that leads them towards these translations even though they are not correct.
I don't really believe in a conspiracy either.. but perhaps they could have subconsciously chosen translations that added to their own power / authority..? Certainly by time King Jame's day it was established into 'hell' belief.. Yet I think originally it came through gnosticism..? which gnosticism, I think, included some mixing in of the old pagan beliefs of the gentile nations..?
Hell has to do with a religion of hardened hearts. It has to do with times being bad and ordinary people suddenly embracing something new. Like, in bad times sometimes people do not flock to wise men but prefer to go to harsh men whom they perceive has having authority. Just like that people in bad times also embrace harsh ideas instead of wise ones. That is how the concept of hell came into religion. Basically people remove themselves from genuine enlightenment and go to bad masters. And in the case of God, they ascribe more harshness to him than before. They are catching themselves in very awful traps. That is because, in such bad times the idea of freedom is becoming misunderstood and people do not have the courage anymore that is required to live in freedom. They bound themselves to masters they would normally not pay any heed to.
This is similar to when people have a war and then they are tempted to go to war with God. The hebrews originally waged war with words and tricks only, but already in the times of David this had changed to war becoming a profane slaughtering of people with real weapons. And in such wars, God becomes less of a friend who will guide you through life, and instead a harsh ruler person that is not above killing people. Ancient wisdom stories like those that are found in the book of Genesis are interpreted more and more hard and severe. Faith becomes an issue of loyalty, not a matter of the heart. Punishments in civil courts are also made harsher. This is really a vicious circle and it takes years and years for people to unlearn it.
Yes, some of the reason for 'slipping' into the translation of Hell had to do with people's perspective and some with the view of who God was.
But, I think, a good bit of it also had to do with the issue of control of the people and coercing them into being afraid and needing the Church to intervene for them, as to who God was and how to relate to Him. And, also the times when the Bible was accessed only by the clergy and not the people themselves.
Beware the 'Pharisees' of any age and time. :gmad:
D.
Quote from: Dandelion on December 19, 2015, 07:37:57 PM
Yes, some of the reason for 'slipping' into the translation of Hell had to do with people's perspective and some with the view of who God was.
But, I think, a good bit of it also had to do with the issue of control of the people and coercing them into being afraid and needing the Church to intervene for them, as to who God was and how to relate to Him. And, also the times when the Bible was accessed only by the clergy and not the people themselves.
Beware the 'Pharisees' of any age and time. :gmad:
D.
:thumbsup: :dsunny:
Isaiah 65 Judgments and Promises
...4Who sit among graves and spend the night in secret places; Who eat swine's flesh,
And the broth of unclean meat is in their pots.
5
"Who say, 'Keep to yourself, do not come near me, For I am holier than you!'
These are smoke in My nostrils, A fire that burns all the day. 6"Behold, it is written before Me, I will not keep silent, but I will repay; I will even repay into their bosom,...
Matthew 9:11
When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?"
Luke 7:39
When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is--that she is a sinner."
Luke 18:9
To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable:
Proverbs 30:12
those who are pure in their own eyes and yet are not cleansed of their filth..
Quote from: Dandelion on December 19, 2015, 07:37:57 PM
Yes, some of the reason for 'slipping' into the translation of Hell had to do with people's perspective and some with the view of who God was.
But, I think, a good bit of it also had to do with the issue of control of the people and coercing them into being afraid and needing the Church to intervene for them, as to who God was and how to relate to Him. And, also the times when the Bible was accessed only by the clergy and not the people themselves.
Beware the 'Pharisees' of any age and time. :gmad:
D.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: amen, amen!!