(Gen 6:2) that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair. And they took to them wives of all that they chose.
(Gen 6:3) And LORD said, My spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he also is flesh. Yet shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.
(Gen 6:4) The Nephilim were on the earth in those days. And also after that, when the sons of God came to the daughters of men, and they bore sons to them, the same were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
It's often said the fallen angels/Nephlim/sons of God fell out of heaven.
If they fell; when?
(Job 1:6) Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before LORD, that Satan also came among them.
The same sons of God?
nephilim is plural of nephil.
Looking at the defenitions below nephil can just as well mean "cause to fall", "one that cuts down", etc
Tyrants, fearsome warriors.
(Num 13:32) And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had spied out to the sons of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to spy it out, is a land that eats up the inhabitants of it. And all the people that we saw
(Num 13:33) And we saw there the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, who come of the Nephilim. And we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
(Josh 11:21) And Joshua came at that time, and cut off the Anakim from the hill-country, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab, and from all the hill-country of Judah, and from all the hill-country of Israel. Joshua utterly destroyed them with the
When were the Nephlim chained? They are chained in Jude 1:6. They were still free in Job 1:6.
They aren't mentioned in Joshua 11:21
???
נפל / נפיל
nephı̂yl / nephil
BDB Definition:
1) giants, the Nephilim
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from H5307
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1393a
1393 נפל (npl) II. Assumed root of the following.
1393a נְפִילִים (nĕpı̂lı̂m) giants, the Nephilim (Gen 6:4; Num 13:33, only).
While some scholars attempt to relate this term etymologically to nāpal I via the noun nēpel "untimely birth" or "miscarriage" (as productive of superhuman monstrosities), a more likely reconstruction is the proposal of a root nāpal II, akin to other weak verbs, pûl II "be wonderful, strong, mighty," pālā' "be wonderful," and even pālâ "separate, distinguish," pālal "discriminate." This pattern of semantically related groups of weak verbs with two strong consonants in common is a notably recurrent phenomenon in Hebrew lexicography. Actually, the translation "giants" is supported mainly by the LXX and may be quite misleading. The word may be of unknown origin and mean "heroes" or "fierce warriors" etc. The RSV and NIV transliteration "Nephilim" is safer and may be correct in referring the noun to a race or nation.
ְנִפיִלים
nep̱iyliym: A masculine noun used only in the plural meaning giants. The celebrated, puzzling passage where this term is first used is Gen 6:4 which merely transliterates the Hebrew word into English as Nephilim. These beings evidently appeared on the earth in the ancient past when divine beings cohabited with woman, and Nephilim, the mighty men or warriors of great fame, were the offspring. This huge race of Nephilim struck fear into the Israelite spies who had gone up to survey the land of Canaan (see Num 13:31-33). The sons of Anak, a tall race of people, came from the Nephilim (Num 13:33; cf. Deu 2:10-11; Deu 9:2; Jos 15:14). Eze 2:21, Eze 2:27 may have the Nephilim in mind, possibly equating them with the mighty men or mighty warriors in the passage. These beings were not divine but only at best great, powerful men.
ָנַפל
nāp̱al: A verb meaning to fall, to lie, to prostrate oneself, to overthrow. This common Hebrew verb carries many possible variations in meaning, much like the English verb to fall. For instance, it can be used literally of someone or something falling down (Gen 14:10; 1Sa 4:18; 1Sa 17:49; 2Ki 6:5); or into a pit (Exo 21:33; Deu 22:4). It is employed for inanimate objects like walls, towers, trees, and hailstones (1Ki 20:30; Ecc 11:3). It is used idiomatically for a violent death, especially in battle (Jdg 5:27; 1Sa 4:10; Amo 7:17); and for the overthrow of a city (Jer 51:8). The word also describes those who fall prostrate before God or those in authority (Gen 50:18; 2Ch 20:18). With the preposition ‛al (H5921), meaning upon, it carries the meaning to attack (literally, to fall upon) (Job 1:19); to desert (to fall away) (2Ki 25:11; Jer 21:9); to be overcome by sleep or emotion (to fall into) (Gen 4:5; Gen 15:12; Jos 2:9; 1Sa 17:32; Neh 6:16). It is used to express the idea of being bedridden or debilitated (Exo 21:18); to be overtaken (lit., to fall into the hands of) (Jdg 15:18; Lam 1:7); and to be born (Isa 26:18). In its causative usage, it also takes the meaning to cast lots (Neh 10:34 [35]; Isa 34:17).
נפל
nâphal
BDB Definition:
1) to fall, lie, be cast down, fail
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to fall
1a2) to fall (of violent death)
1a3) to fall prostrate, prostrate oneself before
1a4) to fall upon, attack, desert, fall away to, go away to, fall into the hand of
1a5) to fall short, fail, fall out, turn out, result
1a6) to settle, waste away, be offered, be inferior to
1a7) to lie, lie prostrate
1b) (Hiphil)
1b1) to cause to fall, fell, throw down, knock out, lay prostrate
1b2) to overthrow
1b3) to make the lot fall, assign by lot, apportion by lot
1b4) to let drop, cause to fail (figuratively)
1b5) to cause to fall
1c) (Hithpael)
1c1) to throw or prostrate oneself, throw oneself upon
1c2) to lie prostrate, prostrate oneself
1d) (Pilel) to fall
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1392
1392 נָפַל (nāpal) I, fall, lie, be cast down, fail.
Derivatives
1392a נֵפֶל (nēpel) untimely birth, abortion (Job 3:16; Eccl 6:3).
1392b מַפָּל (mappāl) refuse.
1392c מַפָּלָה (mappālâ) a ruin (Isa 17:1).
1392d מַפֵּלָה (mappēlâ) a ruin (Isa 23:13; 25:2),
1392e מַפֶּלֶת (mappelet) a carcass (Jud 14:8), ruin (Ezk 31:13), overthrow (Ezk 32:10).
Besides the common physical action or occurrence, a violent or accidental circumstance is often indicated, as well as expanded range of meanings by combination with prepositional specifiers.
Occurring in verbal usage 365 times in the ot, this word displays rich variety of connotation. Though something as simple as a falling wall may be described (Isa 30:13) or as literal as reporting that "Ahaziah fell down through the lattice," more often a much more specific or idiomatic use is involved. One may fall in battle (Jud 20:44), fall into the hands of another (Lam 1:7), or fall by the hand of an opponent (I Chr 20:8). Damage, death, or destruction are often designated by nāpal, but far from exclusively so. A listing of some facets of meaning with examples of occurrence would serve to demonstrate the range of usage. (Transitive force is expressed by the Hiphil stem.)
Observation of denotations of the verb root makes the rationale of the noun derivatives self evident. Twice occurring mappāl speaks of droppings or refuse of wheat (Amos 8:6) and the hanging, fleshy paunch of the crocodile (Job 41:15). mappālâ or mappēlâ (Isa 17:1; 23:13; 25:2 only) means ruin of a devastated or decayed city, while mappelet, besides "ruin, overthrow" (Ezk 26:15, 18 and elsewhere), designates a cut down tree trunk (Ezk 31:13) and animal carcass (Jud 14:8).
M.C.F.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 22, 2012, 10:49:14 PM
(Gen 6:2) that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair. And they took to them wives of all that they chose.
(Gen 6:3) And LORD said, My spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he also is flesh. Yet shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.
(Gen 6:4) The Nephilim were on the earth in those days. And also after that, when the sons of God came to the daughters of men, and they bore sons to them, the same were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
It's often said the fallen angels/Nephlim/sons of God fell out of heaven.
If they fell; when?
(Job 1:6) Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before LORD, that Satan also came among them.
The same sons of God?
nephilim is plural of nephil.
Looking at the defenitions below nephil can just as well mean "cause to fall", "one that cuts down", etc
Tyrants, fearsome warriors.
(Num 13:32) And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had spied out to the sons of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to spy it out, is a land that eats up the inhabitants of it. And all the people that we saw
(Num 13:33) And we saw there the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, who come of the Nephilim. And we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
(Josh 11:21) And Joshua came at that time, and cut off the Anakim from the hill-country, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab, and from all the hill-country of Judah, and from all the hill-country of Israel. Joshua utterly destroyed them with the
When were the Nephlim chained? They are chained in Jude 1:6. They were still free in Job 1:6.
They aren't mentioned in Joshua 11:21
???
נפל / נפיל
nephı̂yl / nephil
BDB Definition:
1) giants, the Nephilim
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from H5307
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1393a
1393 נפל (npl) II. Assumed root of the following.
1393a נְפִילִים (nĕpı̂lı̂m) giants, the Nephilim (Gen 6:4; Num 13:33, only).
While some scholars attempt to relate this term etymologically to nāpal I via the noun nēpel "untimely birth" or "miscarriage" (as productive of superhuman monstrosities), a more likely reconstruction is the proposal of a root nāpal II, akin to other weak verbs, pûl II "be wonderful, strong, mighty," pālā' "be wonderful," and even pālâ "separate, distinguish," pālal "discriminate." This pattern of semantically related groups of weak verbs with two strong consonants in common is a notably recurrent phenomenon in Hebrew lexicography. Actually, the translation "giants" is supported mainly by the LXX and may be quite misleading. The word may be of unknown origin and mean "heroes" or "fierce warriors" etc. The RSV and NIV transliteration "Nephilim" is safer and may be correct in referring the noun to a race or nation.
ְנִפיִלים
nep̱iyliym: A masculine noun used only in the plural meaning giants. The celebrated, puzzling passage where this term is first used is Gen 6:4 which merely transliterates the Hebrew word into English as Nephilim. These beings evidently appeared on the earth in the ancient past when divine beings cohabited with woman, and Nephilim, the mighty men or warriors of great fame, were the offspring. This huge race of Nephilim struck fear into the Israelite spies who had gone up to survey the land of Canaan (see Num 13:31-33). The sons of Anak, a tall race of people, came from the Nephilim (Num 13:33; cf. Deu 2:10-11; Deu 9:2; Jos 15:14). Eze 2:21, Eze 2:27 may have the Nephilim in mind, possibly equating them with the mighty men or mighty warriors in the passage. These beings were not divine but only at best great, powerful men.
ָנַפל
nāp̱al: A verb meaning to fall, to lie, to prostrate oneself, to overthrow. This common Hebrew verb carries many possible variations in meaning, much like the English verb to fall. For instance, it can be used literally of someone or something falling down (Gen 14:10; 1Sa 4:18; 1Sa 17:49; 2Ki 6:5); or into a pit (Exo 21:33; Deu 22:4). It is employed for inanimate objects like walls, towers, trees, and hailstones (1Ki 20:30; Ecc 11:3). It is used idiomatically for a violent death, especially in battle (Jdg 5:27; 1Sa 4:10; Amo 7:17); and for the overthrow of a city (Jer 51:8). The word also describes those who fall prostrate before God or those in authority (Gen 50:18; 2Ch 20:18). With the preposition ‛al (H5921), meaning upon, it carries the meaning to attack (literally, to fall upon) (Job 1:19); to desert (to fall away) (2Ki 25:11; Jer 21:9); to be overcome by sleep or emotion (to fall into) (Gen 4:5; Gen 15:12; Jos 2:9; 1Sa 17:32; Neh 6:16). It is used to express the idea of being bedridden or debilitated (Exo 21:18); to be overtaken (lit., to fall into the hands of) (Jdg 15:18; Lam 1:7); and to be born (Isa 26:18). In its causative usage, it also takes the meaning to cast lots (Neh 10:34 [35]; Isa 34:17).
נפל
nâphal
BDB Definition:
1) to fall, lie, be cast down, fail
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to fall
1a2) to fall (of violent death)
1a3) to fall prostrate, prostrate oneself before
1a4) to fall upon, attack, desert, fall away to, go away to, fall into the hand of
1a5) to fall short, fail, fall out, turn out, result
1a6) to settle, waste away, be offered, be inferior to
1a7) to lie, lie prostrate
1b) (Hiphil)
1b1) to cause to fall, fell, throw down, knock out, lay prostrate
1b2) to overthrow
1b3) to make the lot fall, assign by lot, apportion by lot
1b4) to let drop, cause to fail (figuratively)
1b5) to cause to fall
1c) (Hithpael)
1c1) to throw or prostrate oneself, throw oneself upon
1c2) to lie prostrate, prostrate oneself
1d) (Pilel) to fall
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1392
1392 נָפַל (nāpal) I, fall, lie, be cast down, fail.
Derivatives
1392a נֵפֶל (nēpel) untimely birth, abortion (Job 3:16; Eccl 6:3).
1392b מַפָּל (mappāl) refuse.
1392c מַפָּלָה (mappālâ) a ruin (Isa 17:1).
1392d מַפֵּלָה (mappēlâ) a ruin (Isa 23:13; 25:2),
1392e מַפֶּלֶת (mappelet) a carcass (Jud 14:8), ruin (Ezk 31:13), overthrow (Ezk 32:10).
Besides the common physical action or occurrence, a violent or accidental circumstance is often indicated, as well as expanded range of meanings by combination with prepositional specifiers.
Occurring in verbal usage 365 times in the ot, this word displays rich variety of connotation. Though something as simple as a falling wall may be described (Isa 30:13) or as literal as reporting that "Ahaziah fell down through the lattice," more often a much more specific or idiomatic use is involved. One may fall in battle (Jud 20:44), fall into the hands of another (Lam 1:7), or fall by the hand of an opponent (I Chr 20:8). Damage, death, or destruction are often designated by nāpal, but far from exclusively so. A listing of some facets of meaning with examples of occurrence would serve to demonstrate the range of usage. (Transitive force is expressed by the Hiphil stem.)
Observation of denotations of the verb root makes the rationale of the noun derivatives self evident. Twice occurring mappāl speaks of droppings or refuse of wheat (Amos 8:6) and the hanging, fleshy paunch of the crocodile (Job 41:15). mappālâ or mappēlâ (Isa 17:1; 23:13; 25:2 only) means ruin of a devastated or decayed city, while mappelet, besides "ruin, overthrow" (Ezk 26:15, 18 and elsewhere), designates a cut down tree trunk (Ezk 31:13) and animal carcass (Jud 14:8).
M.C.F.
Anakim may hav been interchangeable with Nephilim since they are all sons of Anak.
Maybe, but read this: sons of Anak, who come of the Nephilim
The sons of Anak are half human and half Nephilim (Gen 6:2)
So strickly speaking that verse is not about pure humans, neither is it about pure Nephlim.
Anak himself wasn't there. Who is Anak? A pure Nephlim? Halfbreed? Were are the other Nephlim?
It's often said God caused the great flood to kill the Nephlim. There are several problems with that. Nephilim a spirit beings so can't drown. They can hide in heaven.
Assuming all crossbreeds died during the flood it must mean the son of Anak originate from after the flood. (maybe even Anak himself)
Why is only Anak's offspring mentioned? Because the Bible usually only focusses on the area the Isrealites my thought is that at that time there may have been thousands crossbreeds across the world. Or none at all.
The nephilim weren't chained. The nephilim were the offspring of fallen 'angels'/elohim and human women.
The fallen angels were chained for what they started in the time of Noah.
nephilim do not equal sons of God.
The sons of God are the elohim.
fallen angels=sons of God=elohim='gods'
nephilim are half human. the human half can drown.
the army of Joshua and Caleb conquered the nephilim [giants] that had settled in canaan and took the promised land.
The fallen angels/ elohim will be unchained at the end times to bring judgment upon the world--that means more nephilim.
The nephilim are already around I think. Ever hear stories of "aliens"? Nephilim.
Looking at the word Anak or Anakians gives very little info. Anak=neck, Anakians=long necks. Perhaps some were red :-)
ANAK
ק
‛ânâq
BDB Definition:
Anak = "neck"
1) progenitor of a family, or tribe of the giant people in Canaan
Part of Speech: noun proper masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: the same as H6060
ֲעָנק
‛anāq: A masculine noun indicating a necklace, a chain. It is used figuratively of wearing parents' instructions around one's neck as a necklace or chain of remembrance (Pro 1:9). It refers to a necklace worn as an ornament or jewelry (Son 4:9). It was used of ornaments worn on animals, camels in particular (Jdg 8:26).
(Deut 3:11) For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.
9 cubits=162 or 189 inch depending on the cubit standard used. Well over 4 meter. That's a giant.
(1Sam 17:4) And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.
About 3 meter.
Quote from: lomarah on June 23, 2012, 10:27:46 AM
The nephilim are already around I think. Ever hear stories of "aliens"? Nephilim.
If Neplilim are ofspring of the Jude 1:6 angels that can only mean 2 things.
- The angels are already unchained.
- The race of Nephlim never was completly wiped out.
I don't know exactly when the alien stories started but around the sixties I think. If there is a connection between alien stories and gianst/nephilim/Jude 1:6 then the last judgement started decades ago.
Unchained they be...
I'm wondering if all those Greek, Norse, etc gods are the ones mentioned in Genesis 6:2.
Greek gods had much interaction with humans.
For example the Greek half-god Hercules is a Nephilim.
Huh. You never know.
(Lev 19:19) Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shall not let thy cattle engender with a diverse kind. Thou shall not sow thy field with two kinds of seed, neither shall there come upon thee a garment of two kinds of stuff mingled together.
Laws against genetic engineering? Not sure how the statement about the garment fits in there. Today there are hardly any clothes that are not made of two or more fabrics.
The Nephilim are the first example of cross-breeding.
(Gen 1:11) And God said, Let the earth put forth grass, herbs yielding seed, [and] fruit trees bearing fruit according to their kind (in which is the seed of them) upon the earth. And it was so.
Genetic engineering is certainly stupid and I'm sure we'll be paying for it soon. I see the spiritual aspects in these verses though. We want the pure seed of Christ ONLY, not mixed with serpent seed.
Oh hasten that day!!
Oh and garments - we want garments of pure righteousness. :cloud9:
I'm aware of the symbology of linen and wool but to compare that to genetic enginering....
QuoteGenetic engineering is certainly stupid and I'm sure we'll be paying for it soon.
Food becomes more of void nutrients every day.
I know... it's not looking good is it?
Oh the genious ideas of man... :mnah:
The verses below show the Nephilim and/or their offspring pop up all over the OT. They are defeated in local battles but nowhere it says all of them are gone. The Bible only writes about the ones that meet the Isrealites.
Joshua 11:22 No Anakites were left in Israelite territory; only in Gaza, Gath and Ashdod did any survive.
Goliath was from Gath.
Deuteronomy 2
(10) (The Emites used to live there– a people strong and numerous, and as tall as the Anakites.
(11) Like the Anakites, they too were considered Rephaites, but the Moabites called them Emites.
1 Chronicles 20
(4) In the course of time, war broke out with the Philistines, at Gezer. At that time Sibbecai the Hushathite killed Sippai, one of the descendants of the Rephaites, and the Philistines were subjugated.
(5) In another battle with the Philistines, Elhanan son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod.
(6) In still another battle, which took place at Gath, there was a huge man with six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot-- twenty-four in all. He also was descended from Rapha.
(7) When he taunted Israel, Jonathan son of Shimea, David's brother, killed him.
(8) These were descendants of Rapha in Gath, and they fell at the hands of David and his men.
Deuteronomy 2
(19)When you come to the Ammonites, do not harass them or provoke them to war, for I will not give you possession of any land belonging to the Ammonites. I have given it as a possession to the descendants of Lot."
(20) (That too was considered a land of the Rephaites, who used to live there; but the Ammonites called them Zamzummites.
(21) They were a people strong and numerous, and as tall as the Anakites
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 23, 2012, 02:37:29 PM
The verses below show the Nephilim and/or their offspring pop up all over the OT. They are defeated in local battles but nowhere it says all of them are gone. The Bible only writes about the ones that meet the Isrealites.
Joshua 11:22 No Anakites were left in Israelite territory; only in Gaza, Gath and Ashdod did any survive.
Goliath was from Gath.
Deuteronomy 2
(10) (The Emites used to live there– a people strong and numerous, and as tall as the Anakites.
(11) Like the Anakites, they too were considered Rephaites, but the Moabites called them Emites.
1 Chronicles 20
(4) In the course of time, war broke out with the Philistines, at Gezer. At that time Sibbecai the Hushathite killed Sippai, one of the descendants of the Rephaites, and the Philistines were subjugated.
(5) In another battle with the Philistines, Elhanan son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod.
(6) In still another battle, which took place at Gath, there was a huge man with six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot-- twenty-four in all. He also was descended from Rapha.
(7) When he taunted Israel, Jonathan son of Shimea, David's brother, killed him.
(8) These were descendants of Rapha in Gath, and they fell at the hands of David and his men.
Deuteronomy 2
(19)When you come to the Ammonites, do not harass them or provoke them to war, for I will not give you possession of any land belonging to the Ammonites. I have given it as a possession to the descendants of Lot."
(20) (That too was considered a land of the Rephaites, who used to live there; but the Ammonites called them Zamzummites.
(21) They were a people strong and numerous, and as tall as the Anakites
I think it was the nephilim that the Israelites were told to wipe out every man, woman, and child, but try explaining that to someone who has never heard of nephilim lol. They usually think God wants to dash the heads of innocent little human babies against rocks. They were in Canaan, where the remnant of the nephilim lived ['we are like grasshoppers in their eyes'].
"When the LORD your God brings you into the land which you go to possess, and has cast out many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgacrapes and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you, and when the LORD your God delivers them over to you, you shall conquer them and utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them.Nor shall you make marriages with them."
--Deut 7
(http://api.ning.com/files/cnHjD3fYbHr7JkxDwtBKj*uqKM659-KAxRawE7qtPtVLw7CRwY7mYy27hbJM2kd4-NL3OyTCsYCJHWz9jJ-0IEwa8uS6k4zO/Nephilim.jpg)
Oh Wings... hahahahaha
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 23, 2012, 10:35:02 AM
Looking at the word Anak or Anakians gives very little info. Anak=neck, Anakians=long necks. Perhaps some were red :-)
ANAK
ק
‛ânâq
BDB Definition:
Anak = "neck"
1) progenitor of a family, or tribe of the giant people in Canaan
Part of Speech: noun proper masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: the same as H6060
ֲעָנק
‛anāq: A masculine noun indicating a necklace, a chain. It is used figuratively of wearing parents' instructions around one's neck as a necklace or chain of remembrance (Pro 1:9). It refers to a necklace worn as an ornament or jewelry (Son 4:9). It was used of ornaments worn on animals, camels in particular (Jdg 8:26).
There is very little info about any of this. All the conjecture is based on a few verses. Whether the "sons of God" were angels, or not- all conjecture. Maybe they were some other order of created beings. Since, as Jesus described angels- "neither male nor female....." I kind of doubt that theyre was any crossbreeding at all. However, since we are looking through eons based on a couple verses connected by various conjectures, I use caution on all sides. There is no argument. There is not enough info to fuel one. I always get a kick out of people who have constructed detailed cosmologies of past and future ages from a few verses of scripture. My conjecture is that we will be like the angels also, neither male nor female. But according to John, we kno not yet what we shall be, and according to Paul we sewe thru a glass darkly, so it is really all just conjecture at this point :o)
However, the scripture says the Nephilim were the sons of Anak- therefore I consider it reasonable to postulate that maybe the Anakim were Nephilim :o)
There are very few dots to connect in our Bible, but there should be enough to get a broad understanding, at least, if not the details.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Gen 6
This scripture tells us there were Nephilim after the flood, which other scripture confirms.
Quote from: Molly on June 23, 2012, 04:58:35 PM
There are very few dots to connect in our Bible, but there should be enough to get a broad understanding, at least, if not the details.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Gen 6
This scripture tells us there were Nephilim after the flood, which other scripture confirms.
Molly, I was doing a study on this scripture Gen. 6:4. Something didn't seem right to me about the way this scripture was translated. The Greek, Aramaic, and main Ge'ez manuscripts of 1 Enoch and Jubilees obtained in the 19th century and held in the British Museum and Vatican Library, connect the origin of the Nephilim with the fallen angels, and in particular with the egrḗgoroi (watchers). The Book of Jubilees (7:21–25) states that ridding the Earth of these Nephilim was one of God's purposes for flooding the Earth in Noah's time.
So with this in mind, I was wondering why so many translations say, "and also after that,". Some of the older translations such as Douay-Rheims 1899 has Gen. 6:4 this way. Gen. 6:4 Now giants were upon the earth in those days.
For after the sons of God went in to the daughters of men, and they brought forth children, these are the mighty men of old, men of renown. Miles Coverdale Bible 1535. Gen. 6:4 There were giauntes also in the worlde at that tyme.
For whan the children of God had lyen with the daughters of men, and begotten them children, ye same (children) became mightie in the worlde, and men of renowne.
And what I noticed about this scripture from these translations when I read it, was that when it says there were giants in the earth in those days, it then gives the reason why. When it says
for after, I understood for the first time that this must be saying something like,
as a result of or
because of, as the
reason for why there were giants in the earth in those days. There were giants in the earth in those days and this is the reason why. And not that "and also after that", which gives the impression that giants were present also after that.
This is just an observation I made which seems to make more sense to me. But that's just me.
:2c:
In E-sword, the phrase 'and also after that' is three Hebrew words. One of them is a conjunction --also, even, both--so it seems to be connecting two things [time before and time after?] which seems most reasonable--but who knows?
Yet, we do know from our own Bible OT, that there are giants after the flood. So the KJV seems to be verified in that this activity is continuing after that or these are a remnant that made it through the flood on the ark [genetically].
And, Jesus himself tells us that the end times will be as in the days of Noah...and Revelation tells us that certain 'angels' who started this activity will be released from the river Euphrates at the end time for judgment. They have been reserved in chains for the sixth trumpet.
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men
--Rev 9
Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites.
2 For they have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the people of those lands: yea, the hand of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass.
--Ezra 9
We see here that the Israelites have disobeyed God and continued to consort with the remnant of the nephilim, as seen in the tribes named. Why would we consider these nephilim? Because we are told the rulers and the princes have caused it to happen, these rulers and princes being the supernatural agents mentioned in eph 6.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
--Eph 6:12
Another translation:
For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places.
--Eph 6:12
Quote from: eaglesway on June 23, 2012, 04:43:35 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 23, 2012, 10:35:02 AM
Looking at the word Anak or Anakians gives very little info. Anak=neck, Anakians=long necks. Perhaps some were red :-)
ANAK
ק
‛ânâq
BDB Definition:
Anak = "neck"
1) progenitor of a family, or tribe of the giant people in Canaan
Part of Speech: noun proper masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: the same as H6060
ֲעָנק
‛anāq: A masculine noun indicating a necklace, a chain. It is used figuratively of wearing parents' instructions around one's neck as a necklace or chain of remembrance (Pro 1:9). It refers to a necklace worn as an ornament or jewelry (Son 4:9). It was used of ornaments worn on animals, camels in particular (Jdg 8:26).
There is very little info about any of this.
Very true. Possibly some of it is hidden by sloppy translations. That's part of the reason I started this thread. Not to fight or prove a fallen angel doctrine; but to collect all info scattered trough the Bible.
QuoteAll the conjecture is based on a few verses. Whether the "sons of God" were angels, or not- all conjecture.
And even that won't prove much. If you can prove the Mayan indians were human (or course they were) you still haven't proved all indians were Mayan.
QuoteMaybe they were some other order of created beings.
Or another type of angels. Or among angels it's exactly the same as amaong humans. Some obey God. Other rebel.
QuoteSince, as Jesus described angels- "neither male nor female....." I kind of doubt that theyre was any crossbreeding at all.
Depends what their powers are. Can angels take on shapes in which that can crossbreed?
Well HERE'S a question: are Nephilim and angels the same thing?
http://www.gnosis.org/library/dss/dss_book_of_giants.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLBIXq292UM
Quote from: lomarah on June 23, 2012, 09:13:36 PM
Well HERE'S a question: are Nephilim and angels the same thing?
My answer: no.
Nephilim are part human if we go with fallen angel plus human equals nephilim offspring.
Nephilim after death might be demon, but that's another story.
Remember nephilim are called 'gibbor.'
The scouts give a bad report about the nephilim in Canaan [the promised land]:
31 But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we.
32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.
33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
--Numbers 13
Wow... those were some pretty tall people!!! (I'm sure they were exaggerating a bit with the grasshopper analogy... but still...)
Quote from: lomarah on June 23, 2012, 10:05:01 PM
Wow... those were some pretty tall people!!! (I'm sure they were exaggerating a bit with the grasshopper analogy... but still...)
Depends http://tentmaker.org/forum/lounge/giants-or-men/msg39314/#msg39314
O M G!!! THOSE are some BIG skeletons!!!
Maybe grasshoppers was a good analogy...
Hi; had a few minutes, and as I was reading this, WW, your word meanings caught my eye, specifically the part about "casting lots". They cast lots for His robe. That just took on a new meaning for me, in a couple of ways. The soul is the garment of the Spirit. If the Nephilim spirits were present, they were also casting lots, for His garment = us.
It also says those that pierced Him shall see Him. This obviously cannot be those that literally did it, UNLESS, it was the Nephalim spirits IN THEM, that pierced Him. I know in one place it says those that did it, went away not knowing why they had done it, or something to that effect.
And finally, the angels are neither male nor female because they're either/or, but because they're BOTH in one, just as there is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus, because there's BOTH. My 2 cents...
Quote from: Cardinal on June 24, 2012, 05:09:34 AM
Hi; had a few minutes, and as I was reading this, WW, your word meanings caught my eye, specifically the part about "casting lots". They cast lots for His robe. That just took on a new meaning for me, in a couple of ways. The soul is the garment of the Spirit. If the Nephilim spirits were present, they were also casting lots, for His garment = us.
It also says those that pierced Him shall see Him. This obviously cannot be those that literally did it, UNLESS, it was the Nephalim spirits IN THEM, that pierced Him. I know in one place it says those that did it, went away not knowing why they had done it, or something to that effect.
And finally, the angels are neither male nor female because they're either/or, but because they're BOTH in one, just as there is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus, because there's BOTH. My 2 cents...
I agree, both- or something else beyond either with roots in both.
I don't see however why the "even those who pierced Him" would not include those who literally pierced Him, meaning the enemies of His own table, of His own household, such as Judas, the Pharisees, Herod, etc.....as well as any disembodied spirits or principalites that were in them (by agreement).
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_b3GHoGMBNpY/S9Tkje5-9LI/AAAAAAAAE8o/5-i1K-RT4Ss/s1600/The+Rephaim.jpg)
(Matt 24:37) And as the days of Noah, so also will be the coming of the Son of man.
(Matt 24:38) For as in the days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage until that day Noah entered into the ark.
Is the above also a reference to Nephilim?
(Jude 1:6) And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness to the judgment of the great day.
(Jude 1:7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
ἕτερος
heteros
Thayer Definition:
1) the other, another, other
1a) to number
1a1) to number as opposed to some former person or thing
1a2) the other of two
1b) to quality
1b1) another: i.e. one not of the same nature, form, class, kind, different
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: of uncertain affinity
Citing in TDNT: 2:702, 265
ἕτερος
héteros; fem. hetéra, neut. héteron, correlative pronoun. Other but different, another.
(I) Particularly and definitely with the art. ho héteros, the other of two where one has been already mentioned (Mat 6:24; Luk 5:7; Luk 7:41; Luk 23:40; 1Co 14:17). In Luk 4:43, in those "other [hetérais] cities" where the gospel has not yet been preached. In distinction from oneself, another person (Rom 2:1; 1Co 4:6; 1Co 14:17; Gal 6:4; Jas 4:12). In Act 20:15, "on the other" (a.t.), implies day meaning the next day, the day after; also Act 27:3.
(II) Indef. and without the art., other, another, some other, equivalent to állos (G243), another, but with a stronger expression of difference.
(A) In Mat 8:21, "another of his disciples"; Luk 8:3; Joh 19:37; Act 1:20; Eph 3:5, "in other ages" means former generations (Sept.: Gen 4:25; Gen 8:10). Joined with tis (G5100), someone indefinitely; héterós tis, some other one, any other (Act 8:34; Act 27:1; Rom 8:39; 1Ti 1:10). Distributively, either repeated as 1Co 15:40, hétera mén . . . hétera dé, some [pl.] . . . and others, or with other pron. (Mat 16:14; Luk 11:16; Luk 14:19-20; 1Co 12:9-10; Sept.: Gen 31:49; Exo 26:3).
(B) Of another kind, another, different, in another form (Mar 16:12; Act 7:18; Rom 7:23; Gal 1:6; Jas 2:25); of a priest from a different line or family (Heb 7:11, Heb 7:15). In the sense of foreign, strange (Jud 1:7; Sept.: Exo 30:9); of other languages (Act 2:4; 1Co 14:21). See glṓssa (G1100, II, C), tongue. Contrast állos (G243), another numerically or coming after. Héteros and héteros repeated, one and another different from each other (1Co 15:40). Different, altered (Luk 9:29).
Deriv.: heteróglōssos (G2084), one of a different tongue; heterodidaskaléō (G2085), to teach a doctrine different than one's own; hetérōs (G2088), otherwise, differently; póteron (G4220), which of two?
héteros/ἕτερος [other, another]
In the NT héteros is used in much the same way as állos, but does not occur in several books (e.g., Mark, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Peter, Revelation). It denotes the new member in a series that either continues (Lk. 14:18ff.) or concludes it (Acts 15:35). It may denote others either of the same kind (Acts 17:34; Lk. 4:34) or of another kind (Lk. 23:32). It may compare or contrast two groups (Acts 23:6), but can also simply denote the next day (Acts 20:15). At times there may be the hint of a qualitative distinction, as in Mt. 11:3 ("Shall we look for another?"); Mk. 16:12 ("another form," i.e., that of a traveler); Lk. 9:29 (Jesus' transfigured face). The "other tongues" of Acts 2:4 may simply refer to tongues as in 10:46; 1 Cor. 12:10; 14:1ff., but in this case "other" would seem to be superfluous, and we should have to assume that, since the later tongues are unintelligible, the true miracle is that the people are granted a gift of understanding, which, in spite of Acts 2:6, 11, is not very convincing. Thus the alternative view that they spoke in foreign languages seems alone to do full justice to the phrase, especially in the light of v. 11 (though cf. the contemptuous reference in v. 13). In Acts 17:7 the point of the charge against Paul is that he is proclaiming a rival to the emperor. In Rom. 7:23 the other law which differs from the holy law of God, and the law of reason that assents to it, is the law of sin that dwells in our members and enslaves us. 1 Cor. 15:40 refers to the different glory of celestial and terrestrial bodies. Eph. 3:5 contrasts the present age of salvation with all preceding generations. Phil. 3:15 may refer either to failure to attain to the preceding insights or to more general divergence from Paul. In Heb. 7:11ff. Jesus is the other priest who, as is shown in detail, both fulfils and transcends Melchizedek. What has come in Jesus is different in the sense that it excludes any other way of salvation (1 Cor. 8:4; Acts 4:12), so that decision is demanded. "another gospel" (Gal. 1:6) is not really another, let alone a better; it is no gospel at all (cf. 2 Cor. 11:4). ho héteros can also be used for the neighbor, a Thou as distinct from the I (cf. Rom. 2:1). The law of Christ is to seek the other's good (1 Cor. 10:24). Self-giving to others fulfils the law (Rom. 13:8). The other here is not a collective concept but denotes the person who in a specific situation crosses my path and whose edification is my concern (1 Cor. 14:17).
Verses using the Greek word heteros/different
(Matt 6:24) No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
(Matt 8:21) And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
(Matt 11:3) And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
(Matt 12:45) Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
(Matt 15:30) And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them:
(Matt 16:14) And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
(Mark 16:12) After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
(Luke 3:18) And many other things in his exhortation preached he unto the people.
(Luke 4:43) And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.
(Luke 5:7) And they beckoned unto their partners, which were in the other ship, that they should come and help them. And they came, and filled both the ships, so that they began to sink.
(Luke 6:6) And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
(Luke 7:41) There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
(Luke 8:3) And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.
(Luke 8:6) And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
(Luke 8:7) And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
(Luke 8:8) And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
(Luke 9:29) And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
(Luke 9:56) For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
(Luke 9:59) And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
(Luke 9:61) And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.
(Luke 10:1) After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
(Luke 11:16) And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.
(Luke 11:26) Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
(Luke 14:19) And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
(Luke 14:20) And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
(Luke 14:31) Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
(Luke 16:7) Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore.
(Luke 16:13) No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
(Luke 16:18) Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
(Luke 17:34) I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
(Luke 17:35) Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
(Luke 17:36) Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
(Luke 18:10) Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
(Luke 19:20) And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
(Luke 20:11) And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
(Luke 22:58) And after a little while another saw him, and said, Thou art also of them. And Peter said, Man, I am not.
(Luke 22:65) And many other things blasphemously spake they against him.
(Luke 23:32) And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.
(Luke 23:40) But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
(John 19:37) And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
(Acts 1:20) For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
(Acts 2:4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
(Acts 2:13) Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
(Acts 2:40) And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
(Acts 4:12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
(Acts 7:18) Till another king arose, which knew not Joseph.
(Acts 8:34) And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
(Acts 12:17) But he, beckoning unto them with the hand to hold their peace, declared unto them how the Lord had brought him out of the prison. And he said, Go shew these things unto James, and to the brethren. And he departed, and went into another place.
(Acts 13:35) Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
(Acts 15:35) Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.
(Acts 17:7) Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.
(Acts 17:21) (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
(Acts 17:34) Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
(Acts 19:39) But if ye enquire any thing concerning other matters, it shall be determined in a lawful assembly.
(Acts 20:15) And we sailed thence, and came the next day over against Chios; and the next day we arrived at Samos, and tarried at Trogyllium; and the next day we came to Miletus.
(Acts 23:6) But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
(Acts 27:1) And when it was determined that we should sail into Italy, they delivered Paul and certain other prisoners unto one named Julius, a centurion of Augustus' band.
(Acts 27:3) And the next day we touched at Sidon. And Julius courteously entreated Paul, and gave him liberty to go unto his friends to refresh himself.
(Rom 2:1) Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
(Rom 2:21) Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
(Rom 7:3) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
(Rom 7:4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
(Rom 7:23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
(Rom 8:39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Rom 13:8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
(Rom 13:9) For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(1Cor 3:4) For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
(1Cor 4:6) And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
(1Cor 6:1) Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
(1Cor 8:4) As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
(1Cor 10:24) Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.
(1Cor 10:29) Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
(1Cor 12:9) To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
(1Cor 12:10) To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
(1Cor 14:17) For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
(1Cor 14:21) In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
(1Cor 15:40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
(2Cor 8:8) I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.
(2Cor 11:4) For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
(Gal 1:6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
(Gal 1:19) But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
(Gal 6:4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
(Eph 3:5) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
(Phil 2:4) Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
(1Tim 1:10) For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
(2Tim 2:2) And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
(Heb 5:6) As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
(Heb 7:11) If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
(Heb 7:13) For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
(Heb 7:15) And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
(Heb 11:36) And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
(Jas 2:25) Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
(Jas 4:12) There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
(Jude 1:7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Quotes from Josephus concerning Giants www.generationword.com
Get access to the entire text of Josephus here
"For many angels (11- This notion, that the fallen angels were, in some sense, the fathers of the old giants, was the constant opinion of antiquity.) of God accompanied with
women, and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength;
for the tradition is, that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians call giants."
"These kings had laid waste all Syria, and overthrown the offspring of the giants. And when they were come over against Sodom. . ."
"They told them also, that they found at Hebron the posterity of the giants. Accordingly these spies, who had seen the land of Canaan,
when they perceived that all these difficulties were greater there than they had met with since they came out of Egypt, they were aftrighted
at them themselves, and endeavored to affright the multitude also."
"For which reason they removed their camp to Hebron; and when they had taken it, they slew all the inhabitants. There were till then left the
race of giants, who had bodies so large, and countenances so entirely different from other men, that they were surprising to the sight, and
terrible to the hearing. The bones of these men are still shown to this very day, unlike to any credible relations of other men. Now they
gave this city to the Levites as an extraordinary reward. . "
"A little afterward the king made war against the Philistines; and when he had joined battle with them, and put them to flight, he was left
alone, as he was in pursuit of them; and when he was quite tired down, he was seen by one of the enemy, his name was Achmon, the
son of Araph, he was one of the sons of the giants. He had a spear, the handle of which weighed three hundred shekels, and a breastplate
of chain-work, and a sword. He turned back, and ran violently to slay [David] their enemy's king, for he was quite tired out with labor; but
Abishai, Joab's brother, appeared on the sudden, and protected the king with his shield, as he lay down, and slew the enemy. Now the
multitude were very uneasy at these dangers of the king, and that he was very near to be slain; and the rulers made him swear that he
would no more go out with them to battle, lest he should come to some great misfortune by his courage and boldness, and thereby
deprive the people of the benefits they now enjoyed by his means, and of those that they might hereafter enjoy by his living a long time among them. "
"When the king heard that the Philistines were gathered together at the city Gazara, he sent an army against them, when Sibbechai the
Hittite, one of David's most courageous men, behaved himself so as to deserve great commendation, for he slew many of those that
bragged they were the posterity of the giants, and vaunted themselves highly on that account, and thereby was the occasion of victory to the Hebrews."
"They had a man who was six cubits tall, and had on each of his feet and hands one more toe and finger than men naturally have. Now the person
who was sent against them by David out of his army was Jonathan, the son of Shimea, who fought this man in a single combat, and slew him; and
as he was the person who gave the turn to the battle, he gained the greatest reputation for courage therein. This man also vaunted himself to be
of the sons of the giants. But after this fight the Philistines made war no more against the Israelites."
Then we turned, and went up the way to Bashan: and Og the king of Bashan came out against us, he and all his people, to battle at Edrei.
2 And the Lord said unto me, Fear him not: for I will deliver him, and all his people, and his land, into thy hand; and thou shalt do unto him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon.
3 So the Lord our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining.
4 And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan.
5 All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many.
6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.
11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.
12 And this land, which we possessed at that time, from Aroer, which is by the river Arnon, and half mount Gilead, and the cities thereof, gave I unto the Reubenites and to the Gadites.
13 And the rest of Gilead, and all Bashan, being the kingdom of Og, gave I unto the half tribe of Manasseh; all the region of Argob, with all Bashan, which was called the land of giants.
--Deut 3
"giants"
H7497
רפה רפא
râphâ' râphâh
2 Samuel 21
15 Moreover the Philistines had yet war again with Israel; and David went down, and his servants with him, and fought against the Philistines: and David waxed faint.
16 And Ishbibenob, which was of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose spear weighed three hundred shekels of brass in weight, he being girded with a new sword, thought to have slain David.
17 But Abishai the son of Zeruiah succoured him, and smote the Philistine, and killed him. Then the men of David sware unto him, saying, Thou shalt go no more out with us to battle, that thou quench not the light of Israel.
18 And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant.
19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
20 And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
21 And when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimeah the brother of David slew him.
22 These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.
You know there are Cainites after the flood too. Some people have said that the sons of God are the sons of seth, and the daughters of men were of the line of cain. Maybe the purpose of the flood was to wipe out all the seed of cain.
The daughters are the daughters of adam/ground/earthy--demonic
Cain was a murderer from the beginning
The mingled seed and the mingled garments go together because they are speaking of the mingling of the spirit of God and the spirit of man. The seed within, and the garment on top.
Spiritual beings surviving the flood and polluting the gene pool again is possible.
But how can the Cainites pop up after the flood again if we are told everything that breath died. Except 8 in the Ark.
Was one of the 8 a Cainite?
Quote from: Molly on June 23, 2012, 09:29:19 PM
Quote from: lomarah on June 23, 2012, 09:13:36 PM
Well HERE'S a question: are Nephilim and angels the same thing?
My answer: no.
Nephilim are part human if we go with fallen angel plus human equals nephilim offspring.
Nephilim after death might be demon, but that's another story.
Remember nephilim are called 'gibbor.'
King Saul was a 'gibber' also. He was a
head taller than everyone else.
possibilities:
spiritual flood only
local flood to the fertile crescent only, maybe the nephilim hadn't spread and there were cainites who had travelled all over the world
one of the 8 was a cainite
the names in the bible are descriptive, symbolic so maybe not the actual lineage from before flood, but representing the carnal man.
two totally separate groups of people, someone after the flood decided that they would call their son cain. Like naming a baby Adolph :laughing7:
------------------------------------
Moses' father in law was a kenite/cainite. It always made me wonder why they needed to bring along the kenites in the wilderness to show them the way. They had the Shekinah cloud leading them. But they needed some men to help them find their way??? The Kenites became a family of scribes (lying pens of the scribes?). The sukathies are one of those families and in this thread
http://tentmaker.org/forum/lounge/signs-symbols-and-pagans-oh-my/msg123949/#msg123949
I show the possible etymological link between the sukathites and the king/priest class of people that were started by Nimrod (kucrapes). So basically we have the creators of religions rearing their head and trying to taint the workings of God all the way from the wilderness. I believe the kucrapes were the kings, and the suka/sakya were the priests/religion creators. Nimrod would have been a son of God, being a direct descendant of Noah, if the Kenites were the "primitive" people, not having been under the direct blessings of Noah being in the pure lineage, it would make it more likely for the "lower" humans to worship these "gods". Those gods who descended from the mountain of God. Its the same story as the nephilim. The angels/sons of God whatever they are, came down on Mt. Hermon according to sanchonihion (I think). Mt. Hermon is Hermes, which is Cush, Nimrods father (also in that link above)
So basically the Kenites could have been the humans in the myth stories, and the gods are the sons of Noah or the sons of Seth/. The stories of the gods are big conglomerations of Adam/Noah, Cain/Ham, Abel/Japeth, Seth/Shem. (according to this theory)
Quote from: redhotmagma on June 24, 2012, 05:03:50 PM
Quote from: Molly on June 23, 2012, 09:29:19 PM
Quote from: lomarah on June 23, 2012, 09:13:36 PM
Well HERE'S a question: are Nephilim and angels the same thing?
My answer: no.
Nephilim are part human if we go with fallen angel plus human equals nephilim offspring.
Nephilim after death might be demon, but that's another story.
Remember nephilim are called 'gibbor.'
King Saul was a 'gibber' also. He was a head taller than everyone else.
Saul was a tall man. Yet, he quaked in the presence of GOLIATH, who was apparently a throwback from an Ammonite or an Anakim or Nephil- maybe some loose DNA strands floating around in the human soup? I don't think Saul was as the Nephilim were....such detail was given concerning Goliaths size and the size of his sword and spear and his appendages etc. Saul gained no such notoriety other than he was a head taller than his brethren.
I wasn't implying Saul was a half breed. More like the half breeds may not be angel/human hybrids. Saul represents the carnal mind being a head taller, and is called a gibbor the same as goliath, and nimrod. Goliath is beheaded, which we've discussed here before the symbolism of it.
gotcha :o)
I think this aspect of how "Man looks on the outward appearance" but "God looks at the heart", especially in regards to how we choose and respond to "leaders" is incredibly important. The books of Samuel and Chronicles/Kings give some of the most insightful views into these things of any writing in all of the Bible or indeed, all of literature.
Eli/Samuel
Saul/David
David/Absalom
Rehoboam
Jeroboam
Ahab/Jehu
For me these histories, when combined with an understanding of their accompanying prophecies in the writings of the prophets (such as Isaiah/Hezekiah's reign, Jeremiah/Zedekiah's reign) provide astounding insights into how God chooses and responds to His stewards.
At Genesis 6, it says that "it came about that when men started to grow in numbers on the surface of the ground and daughters were born to them, then the sons of the [true] God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose."(Gen 6:1, 2)
At this point, at verse 3, Jehovah God says: "My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years." Why did God now see the need to set a time limit for mankind's destruction ? Verse 4 says that "the Neph´i·lim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the [true] God continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame."
Thus, angelic "sons of God" materialized as men and took women as wives, "all whom they chose", having sexual relations with them, producing giant bullies called "the Nephilim" meaning "Fellers; Those Who Cause [Others] to Fall Down" in death. Because of their violent character, Genesis 6:5 says that "consequently Jehovah saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time."
These wicked angelic "sons of God" and their offspring, the Nephilim, terrorized the earth, and their impact was such that many followed in their "footsteps" of being violent themselves, so much so, that Genesis 6:6, 7 says that "Jehovah felt regrets that he had made men in the earth, and he felt hurt at his heart. So Jehovah said: "I am going to wipe men whom I have created off the surface of the ground, from man to domestic animal, to moving animal and to flying creature of the heavens, because I do regret that I have made them."
Moral corruption and violence became so pervasive on the earth due to the wicked influence of former angelic "sons of God" and their offspring, the Nephilim, that Genesis 6:11, 12 says that "the earth came to be ruined in the sight of the [true] God and the earth became filled with violence. So God saw the earth and, look! it was ruined, because all flesh had ruined its way on the earth."
At Jude 6, Jude wrote that "the angels that did not keep their original position (in heaven) but forsook their own proper dwelling place (in heaven) he (Jehovah God) has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day." Jude further wrote that these wicked angels "committed fornication excessively and (had) gone out after flesh for unnatural use" (Jude 7), by materializing and having sexual relations with "daughters of men".
The global flood forced the wicked angelic "sons of God" to dematerialize and go back into the spirit realm, having to abandon their offspring, the Nephilim, who died during the Noachian Flood.
Didn't the children of Israel run into some Nephilim in Cannan?
Then Caleb quieted the people before Moses and said, "We should by all means go up and take possession of it, for we will surely overcome it." But the men who had gone up with him said, "We are not able to go up against the people, for they are too strong for us." So they gave out to the sons of Israel a bad report of the land which they had spied out, saying, "The land through which we have gone, in spying it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants; and all the people whom we saw in it are men of great size. "There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight."
(Num 13:30-33)
don't forget two seeds sown in field[our dust/flesh] tokogae. corrupt image/fallen angel andbabylon
incorrupt/sons of God/daughters ofGod.
to me..this is nothing more tham a spiritual mixing...unlawful marriage to a daughter of a foreign god.
sons of God marry image of babylon[see Solomon]
we see it today when a son of God taught of Him gets caught visiting prostitues..they get exposed
and loose their position....they want daughters of men not daughtersof God to expend their lust on.
there's an old saying...good girls go to heaven..bad girls go everywhere....
take a look at the mega media churches..their pastorsand wives..spiritual giants.
"The global flood forced the wicked angelic "sons of God" to dematerialize and go back into the spirit realm, having to abandon their offspring, the Nephilim, who died during the Noachian Flood. " (jaareshiah)
This "your" understanding correct? I question a global flood, and where did this "idea" that the "sons of God" were wicked angelic beings or even angelic beings?
Luk 3:38 the son of Cainan, the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Nothing angelic about Adam.
Joh 1:12 but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God--to those believing in his name, .....
I do not believe that we can say for a surety just who the sons of God (OT) are/were. Building on man's speculations, building on religious and theological reasoning is (imo) just how we have the Babylon of denominations and non denominations we have today. :2c:
There is TRUTH and that truth is still being sought.
and just like the Gabriel archangel thing -
Nobody knows for certain what exactly is meant by that term in that chapter.
Maybe "bad angels" in the sense that they were the ones that rebelled with the devil. The problem with the passage is that it indicates spiritual beings having physical relations and producing physical sperm to make a physical body. I would think at first glance well, that's impossible but then I remember the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and produced the physical Jesus so it's a tough call either way.
I do know that jaareshiah is spouting the JW party line in all his answers so take it with a grain of salt. I guess he isn't content to talk on JW forum websites cuz that doesn't count toward getting his ticket to paradise stamped.
Quote from: ded2daworld on November 01, 2012, 05:56:49 PM
and just like the Gabriel archangel thing -
Nobody knows for certain what exactly is meant by that term in that chapter.
Maybe "bad angels" in the sense that they were the ones that rebelled with the devil. The problem with the passage is that it indicates spiritual beings having physical relations and producing physical sperm to make a physical body. I would think at first glance well, that's impossible but then I remember the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and produced the physical Jesus so it's a tough call either way.
I do know that jaareshiah is spouting the JW party line in all his answers so take it with a grain of salt. I guess he isn't content to talk on JW forum websites cuz that doesn't count toward getting his ticket to paradise stamped.
:gimmefive:
Quote from: micah7:9 on November 01, 2012, 05:44:30 PM
"The global flood forced the wicked angelic "sons of God" to dematerialize and go back into the spirit realm, having to abandon their offspring, the Nephilim, who died during the Noachian Flood. " (jaareshiah)
This "your" understanding correct? I question a global flood, and where did this "idea" that the "sons of God" were wicked angelic beings or even angelic beings?
Luk 3:38 the son of Cainan, the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Nothing angelic about Adam.
Joh 1:12 but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God--to those believing in his name, .....
I do not believe that we can say for a surety just who the sons of God (OT) are/were. Building on man's speculations, building on religious and theological reasoning is (imo) just how we have the Babylon of denominations and non denominations we have today. :2c:
There is TRUTH and that truth is still being sought.
In the book of Jude, Jude wrote concerning those not "showing faith" (verse 5): "And the
angels that did
not keep their
original position (in heaven) but
forsook their own
proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day. So too Sod´om and Go·mor´rah and the cities about them, after they in the same manner as the
foregoing ones ( the "angels", verse 6) had
committed fornication excessively and gone out after flesh for
unnatural use, are placed before [us] as a [warning] example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire."(Jude 6, 7)
These wicked angels left their "proper dwelling place" in heaven and came down to the earth, and "went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose."(Gen 6:1) The sexual union between them and "the daughters of men" produced giant offspring called Nephilim. However, with the beginning of the global deluge, these former angelic "sons of God" dematerialized and returned to spirit realm, but their Nephilim sons died.
No where does the book of Jude mention these "wicked angels" as having anything to do with the nephilim or the 6th chapter of Genesis. Jude says these wicked angels are kept in darkness and bound with everlasting chains for judgment in the great day.
A second indication that they had nothing to do with Genesis chapter 6 since whatever beings that were there were free to have sex with "any they chose"- that doesn't jive with being bound with everlasting chains in darkness.
The bible also says absolutely nothing about the Nephilim being 1.)angelic, 2.)dematerializing, 3.) returning to the spiritual realm
4.) coming from the spiritual realm.
Why doesn't the organization admit they don't know instead of making up fanciful stories? Are they afraid people will find out that they don't have all the answers. None of us, including me, have all the answers and any person or organization on earth that claims to have all the answers is flat out lying to you.
just as the virgin Mary conceived of the Holy spirit 'that Holy thing' a perfect sinless man...
so too daughters of men/churches] have 'conceived and brought forth in the flesh" children of the devil
even offspring of vipers. Jesus showed forth this truth when He spoke to Pharisees and Sadducees
[religious leaders] in His day...they wash the outside of the cup to indeed appear holy unto men......
white-washed graves full of dead men's bones...First cleanse the inside of the cup./casting out
demonic doctrines of demons./liar and theif...and truth of the inward parts/virgin puretruth will result
corrupted messenger[angelic] spirits.....pervert the flesh of man in many ways[marrs man in God's image]
all sorts of manipulation of the human body occurs..giantism[pituatary tumour] 6 toes/fingers
666? seizures,blindness,deafness,muteness..always lead to both spiritualsickness and death....as
evidenced in earth flesh also.corruption/sin in flesh
Quote from: ded2daworld on November 02, 2012, 06:50:57 PM
No where does the book of Jude mention these "wicked angels" as having anything to do with the nephilim or the 6th chapter of Genesis. Jude says these wicked angels are kept in darkness and bound with everlasting chains for judgment in the great day.
A second indication that they had nothing to do with Genesis chapter 6 since whatever beings that were there were free to have sex with "any they chose"- that doesn't jive with being bound with everlasting chains in darkness.
The bible also says absolutely nothing about the Nephilim being 1.)angelic, 2.)dematerializing, 3.) returning to the spiritual realm
4.) coming from the spiritual realm.
Why doesn't the organization admit they don't know instead of making up fanciful stories? Are they afraid people will find out that they don't have all the answers. None of us, including me, have all the answers and any person or organization on earth that claims to have all the answers is flat out lying to you.
Had you looked more carefully at what Jude wrote, then you could see that Jude was speaking of angels that "forsook" (Greek "
me teresantes", meaning literally "not to guard" or a failure to guard, "keeping an eye upon" [
teresantes],
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, G3361, G5083) their "proper dwelling place" ("own habitation",
King James Bible) in heaven and "committed fornication excessively" with women, going "out after flesh for unnatural use", just as the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah had done, Jude saying "in the
same manner as the forgoing ones (Sodom and Gomorrah)."
These rebellious angels left their "proper dwelling place" in heaven as spirit "sons of God" and then came down to the earth, materializing as men and "committed fornication excessively" with women, which is "unnatural", or "in the
same manner" as the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah.(Gen 19:4, 5)
The Jude angels are not related to the Genesis 6 angels by scripture verse. at least,.you haven't shown me a clear relationship, And only in science fiction do beings materialize as men and then dematerialize to go back on board the starship.
The bible also says absolutely nothing about the Nephilim being 1.)angelic, 2.)dematerializing, 3.) returning to the spiritual realm
4.) coming from the spiritual realm.
Quote from: jaareshiah on November 02, 2012, 10:01:17 PM
Had you looked more carefully at what Jude wrote, then you could see that Jude was speaking of angels that "forsook" .........
These rebellious angels left their "proper dwelling place" in heaven as spirit "sons of God" and then came down to the earth, materializing as men and "committed fornication excessively" with women, which is "unnatural", or "in the same manner" as the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah.(Gen 19:4, 5)
Yeh, it says "angels"alright, but it does not say "sons of God", two different classes of heavenly hosts. The "sons of God" should not be equated with the rebellious "angels", scripture in Psalms & Job makes it clear that the "sons of God" have always lived with God in heaven and were part of the heavenly host standing with God when Satan made his appearance in heaven to accuse Job. These "sons of God" in the book of Job also stood with God to praise the creation of the universe, these are not "angels" & it cannot be demonstrated by any scripture it is otherwise.
The "sons of God" in Gen 6 are "sons" of the earthly rulers (elohim) who are listed in Gen 5, just drop the capitalization on "God", make the "G" smallcase as it should be, then reread the scripture in the context in which it was written, should be written as: "
sons of god". Just because you see the English word "God" for the Hebrew
elohim, doesn't mean in Hebrew you are referencing the "elohim" in heaven, there are lots of "elohim" on Earth who are also "rulers" & they are all flesh & blood born of fathers & mothers just like you and I. And by the way, thus is why they had the ability to procreate with the daughters of other men, you know, just like you & me, our wives were once another man's daughter.
in the book ofAdam and Eve ch 19 it tells how the descendants of Adam,Seth's line stayed on the mountain
seperate from the offspring of Cain.....God did not want mixing of good/evil examples in men....
that confuses the discernment from good/evil.anyway,the book speaks of Cain's descendant's
enticing the children of seths that kept the holy things off the mountain.
Enoch was at that time already grown up and and he arose and beseeched the sons of Seth to not
go down off the mountain....A prediction of the coming flood was made shortly after this
anyway..man serves as an example of the unseen spiritual realm to openly manifestthe
good/evil spirit contrasts.
Jude says....'they serve as examples' of what awaitsthe evil/contrast tool/satan and demons.
Quote from: sheila on November 03, 2012, 02:12:41 AM
in the book ofAdam and Eve ch 19 it tells how the descendants of Adam,Seth's line stayed on the mountain
I looked for this, was unable to find it....
I ordered it title the Lost Books of the Bible and the forgotten books of Eden
Published by World Bible Publishers the Lost books copyright 1926 the forgotton books 1927
in USA and Newfoundland by Alpha house.
ISBN 0-529-02061 Isbn 0-529-03385-3
My sister Rose bought it off the internet for me about 11 yrs ago. google bookstore proablably
has it.
the Adam and Eve part is just part of the book....similitude,Secrets of Enoch,hermes,maccabees
many more
What is it's Biblical worth, honestly? And how can one use it to open Biblical information and insight outside of more human speculation, assumption, and just human imagination by creating more unsound mythical doctrine and confusion? I think you wasted your money as I have on such things as "The Secret Teachings of Jesus [Four Gnostic Gospels]" and the "Book of Mary," and "The Book of Enoch."
What do you gain in debate or argument?
Quote from: micah7:9 on November 03, 2012, 04:39:56 AM
What is it's Biblical worth, honestly? And how can one use it to open Biblical information and insight outside of more human speculation, assumption, and just human imagination by creating more unsound mythical doctrine and confusion? I think you wasted your money as I have on such things as "The Secret Teachings of Jesus [Four Gnostic Gospels]" and the "Book of Mary," and "The Book of Enoch."
What do you gain in debate or argument?
The only thing I see gained is a Satanic effort to diminish the value of the other 66 biblios of Holy Writ. I've looked over some of this fiction in the past, and it is so quirky & incomprehensible to read that you just might as well be reading a Harry Potter book or something out of Grimm's book of fairytales, in fact those those books probably make more sense.
Quote from: Paul L on November 02, 2012, 11:54:07 PM
Quote from: jaareshiah on November 02, 2012, 10:01:17 PM
Had you looked more carefully at what Jude wrote, then you could see that Jude was speaking of angels that "forsook" .........
These rebellious angels left their "proper dwelling place" in heaven as spirit "sons of God" and then came down to the earth, materializing as men and "committed fornication excessively" with women, which is "unnatural", or "in the same manner" as the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah.(Gen 19:4, 5)
Yeh, it says "angels"alright, but it does not say "sons of God", two different classes of heavenly hosts. The "sons of God" should not be equated with the rebellious "angels", scripture in Psalms & Job makes it clear that the "sons of God" have always lived with God in heaven and were part of the heavenly host standing with God when Satan made his appearance in heaven to accuse Job. These "sons of God" in the book of Job also stood with God to praise the creation of the universe, these are not "angels" & it cannot be demonstrated by any scripture it is otherwise.
The "sons of God" in Gen 6 are "sons" of the earthly rulers (elohim) who are listed in Gen 5, just drop the capitalization on "God", make the "G" smallcase as it should be, then reread the scripture in the context in which it was written, should be written as: "sons of god". Just because you see the English word "God" for the Hebrew elohim, doesn't mean in Hebrew you are referencing the "elohim" in heaven, there are lots of "elohim" on Earth who are also "rulers" & they are all flesh & blood born of fathers & mothers just like you and I. And by the way, thus is why they had the ability to procreate with the daughters of other men, you know, just like you & me, our wives were once another man's daughter.
At Job 38, our Creator, Jehovah God , said to Job: "Who is this that is obscuring counsel by words without knowledge?....Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth?....When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, and all the
sons of God ("sons of God", Hebrew
beneh´ 'Elo·him´; Jewish
Targums, "the bands of angels"; Greek
Septuagint, "my angels) "began shouting in applause? "(Job 38:2, 4, 7)
Thus, at the laying of the foundation of the earth, the angelic hosts applauded, for no humans existed at that time, these being "sons of God" as Adam at Luke 3:38 and of which the apostle Paul said that Jesus, after his resurrection to heaven, continued to be called "the Son of God".(Heb 4:14)
At Psalms 89, the question is asked: "For who in the skies can be compared to Jehovah? Who can resemble Jehovah among the sons of God?" (or angels, Ps 89:6) And at Job 1, it says: "Now it came to be the day when the sons of ("sons of ", Hebrew
beneh´; Greek
Septuagint, "angels.") the [true] God
entered to take their station
before Jehovah, and even
Satan proceeded to
enter right among them."(Job 1:6)
The apostle Peter said that after Jesus resurrection, that "he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah's days, while the ark was being constructed."(1 Pet 3:19, 20)
Hence, the "sons of God" at Genesis 6 are
not "sons" of the earthly rulers who are listed in Genesis 5, but rather are angels that left their "own proper dwelling place" in heaven, forsaking it, and materialized as men to commit fornication excessively with women.(Jude 6, 7)
These are later called demons ("demon", Greek
dai´mon, Matt 8:31), "wicked spirits" (Greek
poneron pneumaton, Luke 7:21; 8:2) and "unclean spirits".(Greek
pneumaton akatharton, Matt 10:1) The men of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah followed after their pattern (Gen 19), going "out after flesh for unnatural use".(Jude 7)
This is one of those issues about which Paul spoke that we ought not enter "doubtful disputation". There is not enough written in scripture to "teach as sound doctrine" either way- and any opinion held on the interpretation and application of these verses can be held by saints in fellowship with one another and discussed.
None of these positions is suitable for strife and debate since there is not sufficient eveidence to "approve" before all the saints of God.
Jahareesh, you may state your opinions as opinions, but not teach them as systematic theology on the forum, as you have now been told several times. If you continue to take the tone of a "teacher of absolute truth" on this forum, especially concerning topics that have no bearing on the focus point for the board, which is, "the salvation of all" you will be temporarily restricted from being able to participate in these discussions.
Jaar,
QuoteHence, the "sons of God" at Genesis 6 are not "sons" of the earthly rulers who are listed in Genesis 5,
So you want to pick & choose where your elohim are living. Gen 6 clearly states these are elohim living on planet Earth. You know this because they have flesh & blood sons, angels cannot procreate, Christ himself told us this, Mark 12.25, Matt22:30, no sex for these guys is there? But that didn't stop the "sons of elohim" in Gen 6.
Quotebut rather are angels that left their "own proper dwelling place" in heaven, forsaking it, and materialized as men to commit fornication excessively with women.(Jude 6, 7)
Now you want to pick & choose whether
elohim means "angels" or "sons of elohim". You don't have a Biblical premise to have it both ways that you've shown me whereby I can read it in black & white.
QuoteThese are later called demons ......
Really? I'll ask you again to show us where in Holy Writ it is stated the "sons of God" are angels. You just make a blatant statement that they are & jump all the way to the book of Jude to patch & paste stuff together to rationalize an unwarranted statement.
(Forgive me for not spending much time in developing any of the following, only mentioning it instead. It's interesting to consider the possibility.)
In the parable of the trees in Eden and their jealousy (in Isa., Jer., or Eze., ?) is one indication other sentient beings may have been in the Garden besides Adam, Eve, and the serpent. The possibility has been shown to me that that Adam had offspring while he still had two sexes before the "curved chamber" was removed from him and built into a woman. These bi-sexual, androgynous beings were here, but left Eden, then returned in the days of the flood. There are suggestions from ancient Sumeria of where they went and may even be at this time.
(This is nothing I'm making a plea for people to believe and I'm not going into detail about it right now. Perhaps someone else knows of this?)
These beings would have been born without sin since Adam fell after Eve arrived. I don't think that was part of God's plan.
Adam wouldn't have been lonely with children around.
These beings would have been "little Adams" able to walk with God in the garden during the cool of the day.
Why would these beings leave the garden if it was specifically created for them "as Adam?"
IMO, this idea, while being a remote possibility, raises far more questions than gives any answers.
Quote from: eaglesway on November 04, 2012, 09:22:33 PM
This is one of those issues about which Paul spoke that we ought not enter "doubtful disputation". There is not enough written in scripture to "teach as sound doctrine" either way- and any opinion held on the interpretation and application of these verses can be held by saints in fellowship with one another and discussed.
None of these positions is suitable for strife and debate since there is not sufficient eveidence to "approve" before all the saints of God.
Jahareesh, you may state your opinions as opinions, but not teach them as systematic theology on the forum, as you have now been told several times. If you continue to take the tone of a "teacher of absolute truth" on this forum, especially concerning topics that have no bearing on the focus point for the board, which is, "the salvation of all" you will be temporarily restricted from being able to participate in these discussions.
:dsunny:"This is one of those issues about which Paul spoke that we ought not enter "doubtful disputation". There is not enough written in scripture to "teach as sound doctrine" either way- and any opinion held on the interpretation and application of these verses can be held by saints in fellowship with one another and discussed. " Excellent! :HeartThrob:
satan was jealous of the dominion God gave Adam over the earth. When God required His angels
to serve and minister to dam..satan in his pride would not serve a lower creation.
the significance of the trees in the garden and any jealousy refers to the plantings of God
in the garden of the earth the family of Adam[I will establish her in the earth[Jerusalem Above]
Adam is a son of God..Jerusalem Above his Mother..spirit seed from above subjected to vanity
in this eartht/okogae...men as trees of righteousness and the planting of God in the earth..are
hewn down timbers of satan who makes them fall[evil tool/axe/saw] and raised of Christ as temple
in heaven/see pattern of Solomon for building temple of the Lord.
Jer 4:6 The Lord says to the people of Israel and Judah,
5 "I heard a cry of terror,
a cry of fear and not of peace.
6 Now stop and think!
Can a man give birth to a child? :eek:
Quote from: reFORMer on November 05, 2012, 05:43:11 AM
(Forgive me for not spending much time in developing any of the following, only mentioning it instead. It's interesting to consider the possibility.)
In the parable of the trees in Eden and their jealousy (in Isa., Jer., or Eze., ?) is one indication other sentient beings may have been in the Garden besides Adam, Eve, and the serpent. The possibility has been shown to me that that Adam had offspring while he still had two sexes before the "curved chamber" was removed from him and built into a woman. These bi-sexual, androgynous beings were here, but left Eden, then returned in the days of the flood. There are suggestions from ancient Sumeria of where they went and may even be at this time.
(This is nothing I'm making a plea for people to believe and I'm not going into detail about it right now. Perhaps someone else knows of this?)
I'm glad you mentioned this as nobody has noticed them before.
I was originally going to use these scriptures as further proof to my theory that mankind lived as spirit beings in Eden, before being born on the earth as human beings.
My theory though is concerning human beings, not 'other' beings.
please be careful. When "figuring out" something supposedly hidden in scripture it's easy to fall into the trap that cults, and et people fall into. Indicating that God "forgot" to mention something to us or that he didn't actually mean what he actually said. When we get into interpreting scripture, almost always "Occams Razor" prevails. The plainest and simplest reading of the scripture is what God was "trying" to say. We are warned in scripture to not enter into spiritual fantasies which cannot be confirmed or denied directly from scripture. IMO, if God thought it was important he certainly would have included it instead of all the numbering in the book of nymbers. :dontknow:
Quote from: jaareshiah on November 06, 2012, 04:55:52 AM
Jesus was put to death because he did not abide by this philosophy.
Jesus is the Son of God, and He rose again, is alive, and is our Savior on which we must believe to be saved. "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.. Acts 16:30,31
This isn't a forum to teach systematic jehovah's witness theology. You're welcome to read the forum, perhaps something will be of help. If you find yourself truly in a position to be open to learning and discussing something besides what your organization approves of, please contact the moderators for consideration. Take care, good wishes.
Jaar,
QuoteThese wicked angels left their "proper dwelling place" in heaven and came down to the earth, and "went taking wives for themselves....
What is your problem with understanding the plainly spoken words of Christ himself in Mt 22:30 & Mk12:25. If you do not believe Christ's own words, do you not just become another 1st century Sadducee that Christ was condemning in verse 23 of Matt 22?
Quotenamely, all whom they chose."(Gen 6:1) The sexual union between them and "the daughters of men" produced giant offspring called Nephilim.
So have you yet taken the bother to read Matt 22:30 & Mk 12:25? Christ's own words continually deny every statement you continue to make about angels having wives, sex, progeny, etc.
QuoteHowever, with the beginning of the global deluge, these former angelic "sons of God" dematerialized and returned to spirit realm, but their Nephilim sons died.
Where does Gen 6 state these "sons of God (elohim)" ever came down from heaven as angels..........? I'm still looking in on your posts hoping for you to point out the words for it. Or do you think it is cute to ignore questions over which you know you've been caught up in a conundrum? It is clear from Gen 6 that "sons of God (elohim)" took wives of the daughters of men, but it does not say "angels, therefore the clear evidence of scripture is that they cannot possibly be angels if Gen 6 expressly denies it within the bounds of the words themselves additionally supported by the context.
CHALLENGE Jaar: Quote us the scripture that states "angels" have ever had sex with flesh & blood humans?
CHALLENGE Jaar: Quote us a scripture that denies Gen1: 24-25, that everything on earth can only reproduce "upon the earth after his (their) kind". You want to rewrite "sons of God" in Gen 6 to read "angels", but "angels" are not of the earth & as Christ has plainly stated cannot have progeny, "sons of God" in Gen 6 clearly are of the earth because they are reproducing after their own kind & are having children.
Paul, due to his continually ignoring the rules of this forum and warnings from moderators, Jaareshiah has been banned.
Quote from: ded2daworld on November 06, 2012, 04:07:38 PM
Paul, due to his continually ignoring the rules of this forum and warnings from moderators, Jaareshiah has been banned.
OK, thanks for the heads up......I'm done with the issue.
He's on Read Only status so he's welcome to log in and read the forum, but just not able to post right now. If anything changes with him, he can contact us for reconsideration.
Any other moderation issues I'd ask we go to PM at this point, just so we're not getting in too deep out on the boards. Thanks, blessings.
Jude ....Enoch prophesied about these 'MEN" ........these men are 'grumbblers faultfinders
follow their own evil desires..boast and flatter. men who divide you..havenot the holy spirit
foaming up their shame like wild waves speak abusively about what they don't understand..
certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago,have secretly slipped in
among you...blemishes at your love feast
Acts 20;29 savage wolves will come in among you and not spare the flock.........
these he has kept in darkness..bound with chains for judgemnt on the great day
this is how we recognize 'who' these men are...woe to them!! they have taken the way of Cain
[who hated and murdered his brother] rushed for profit into Balaams error[curse others]..been
destroyed in Korah's rebellion
examine yourselves,as shall I to see if you recognize these men that slipped in.
note their characteristics..look out..that ye not devour one another...
Rev 12............the dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth that he may
DEVOUR HER CHILD THE MOMENT IT WAS BORN
....speaking of 'men' and 'angels'...... Judges 13...and the angel of the Lord appeared unto the woman
and said'Behold now,thou art barren..but shall conceive a son...."
v 6 then the woman came and told her husband...A MAN OF GOD CAME UNTO ME
Sheila :thumbsup:
Quote from: jaareshiah on November 01, 2012, 03:53:03 AM
At Jude 6, Jude wrote that "the angels that did not keep their original position (in heaven) but forsook their own proper dwelling place (in heaven) he (Jehovah God) has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day." Jude further wrote that these wicked angels "committed fornication excessively and (had) gone out after flesh for unnatural use" (Jude 7), by materializing and having sexual relations with "daughters of men".
The global flood forced the wicked angelic "sons of God" to dematerialize and go back into the spirit realm, having to abandon their offspring, the Nephilim, who died during the Noachian Flood.
The, imo local, flood was for destroying Nephlim who were the offspring of teraphim, lowest class of angels and humans. It's those teraphim that are now locked up and are released as locusts (which doesnt do much good to full Hebrew understanding). The dead Neplim are likely whats called demons.
Nephlim weren't all killed during the flood. Far from it. It seems/looks like all of Joshua's wars were against Nephlim tribes.
Revelation even 'hints' that they will return full force.