Destruction

[FineLinen]

The punishment of the Father of all fathers is not merely correction: it is correction that improves, changes, transforms for the better.

Our God punishes with an objective in view, not as an end in itself!

There are dual aspects to our Father's Realm as shown in the following...

Tamiym/ 'ymt means to be consumed, destroyed, exhausted and spent, but also to be finished and made sound.

Kalal has the same meaning, linking destruction, being spent, exhausted, as well as to be finished and made sound.

Tamam, the root word of Tamiym means to be finished, complete, summed up, made whole: linked with to be consumed, exhausted, spent and destroyed.

Shalam/ ~IX, another expression of destruction, has the scope of being finished and ended, made good or whole, & being made sound, coupled with to be restored.

Shebar, rooted in Shabar, means breakout, and being brought to birth; and underlying new birth and breakout? To be crushed and broken. Again there is dual meaning in our Lord's words of destruction and re-creation.

Chalowph

The destructive Hebrew word Chalowph is rooted in being altered, renewed, changed, and to sprout again. It should also be noted that this is not just change, but change for the better.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;... down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

It is becoming clear to me after following the Living One for these past 62 years how slow I am. The outer laminar spheres of the unspeakable unknown is beginning to break upon my poor thick being. I do trust each of us as we are caught up into Him will find many stars and galaxies breaking from single points of light in His heavens. What a wonderful journey this is!

[FineLinen]

Originally Posted by wellsmaine 

I asked the Lord (again and again and again in the past) for insight into how his death saves us. He finally directed my thoughts to the times I helped my grandmother with her food preservation; specifically, the freezing of string beans. We would pick them and then snap them into shorter pieces and then blanch them before bagging them for the freezer. I asked her why the blanching for a few moments in boiling water. She told me if beans are not blanched, even if frozen they would spoil (due to enzymatic action that is stopped by blanching).

So, to keep it short, the beans are not altered but the enzymatic action is stopped. For universal salvation to happen, as with beans not going to ruin, humanity needed (and needs) a blanching. If we are like spiritual beans, the bean remains a bean but the change wrought by God doesn't depend on the bean. And a blanched bean tastes better, too!

Blanch green beans in a large stock pot of well salted boiling water until bright green in color and tender crisp, roughly 2 minutes. Drain and shock in a bowl of ice water to stop from cooking. Heat a large heavy skillet over medium heat. Add the oil and the butter.

_________

And to poke at Calvin, my grandmother did not will to save one string bean and not another with her blanching -- and not save them all by blanching the entire pile. Funny how my grandmother was wiser than Calvin's limited atonement God. LOL I'm sure, though, The Salvation entails the use by God of all the functions of creation (like neutralizing green bean enzymes) including quantum physics and other functions we may never be aware of, or ever understand in this life.

[FineLinen]

Dear Wellsmaine: This is a wonderful post! Our Father is doing a great blanching job on us.

My being has recently begun to hear a new song coming from our Father. One cannot learn this song, you must be born out of it, and in it. There are many days I think I shall wrap up posting on any board, but the Song is overwhelming.

My prayer=

Cause me to hear Your voice

Open my understanding

Cause me to see Thy greatness oh Lord

Thy glory apprehending

Here on the highest mount

To Thee are sons ascending

Oh write Thy laws within my heart

Righteousness reigns unending

Thy majesty revealed.

[Boomer]

Dear Wellsmaine: This is a wonderful post! Our Father is doing a great blanching job on us.

My being has recently begun to hear a new song coming from our Father. One cannot learn this song, you must be born out of it, and in it. There are many days I think I shall wrap up posting on any board, but the Song is overwhelming.

My prayer=

Cause me to hear Your voice

Open my understanding

Cause me to see Thy greatness oh Lord

Thy glory apprehending

Here on the highest mount

To Thee are sons ascending

Oh write Thy laws within my heart

Righteousness reigns unending

Thy majesty revealed.

Hi FineLinen,

I hope the days when you think about wraping up posting are only momentary. I enjoy reading what you write. I'm not very good at writing so I thought I would borrow from someone else instead. Someone by the name Mick Mooney wrote the following on Facebook and it reminded me of the effect your writing has had on me.
I hope you continue to live life outside the comfort zone and let your light shine for a long time yet, Luke 9:23.

"If you want to make a genuine connection with others, you must first that accept the place of deep connection is outside your comfort zone.

Communicating your heart, your passion, your perspective, your hopes and desires outside your comfort zone does something magical—it has a magnetic pull to the hearts of others. It draws others out of their comfort zone. It adds courage to their own journey.

Connection happens through our willingness to be brave, to dare to express our true hearts.
Playing it safe, toeing the party line may appease a small group around you, but it does not and cannot create deep, genuine connection.

It seems to me God has tied bravery and connection together, unlikely twins who don't like to travel without the other.
Shouting about how right you are isn't courageous. Pointing out the faults of others isn't courageous. Both of these acts only reinforce our comfort zone.

There are two kinds of true courage. The courage to take action in the face of uncertainty, and the courage to be vulnerable. Both are needed. The latter is the harder, the more divine in essence, and the true pathway to connecting to the hearts of your fellow human being.

Don't repeat the chorus the crowd is signing. Write your own song. Sing your truth. Show us your own heart. Let us be enlightened and inspired by your own thoughts.
Be brave. Be true to your own originality.

Don't be pushed along by the miserable crowd when you can carve out your own path instead.
There is something in you so pure, to potent with power, so needed in the world. Nobody will pull it out of you. You must take the risk and dare to reveal it.

Let your light shine."

[FineLinen]

Dear Boomer: Thank you for your kind comments. This old broken down frame of mine is fast heading to the glory. Until then the joy of testifying of the Glorious One is a joy.

God's Plan Of The Ages

"During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be "the god of this eon" (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22).

But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God.

In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)."

God's Plan Of the Ages (with Concordance))

saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

The whole of created life shall be delivered/set free from the bondage of corruption...

[FineLinen]

"What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath–prepared for destruction." Romans 9:22

Fitted/ Prepared=katartivzw

Katartivzw=

To render or to fit.

To make sound or complete.

To mend what has been broken or rent.

To repair what has been broken or rent.

To put in order.

To arrange. To adjust.

To fit or frame for one's self.

To strengthen, to perfect, to complete.

To make one what he aught to be.

Dr. Marvin Vincent

Fitted/prepared= kathrtismena=

Literally: adjusted or mended.

"ei de qelwn o qeoV endeixasqai thn orghn kai gnwrisai to dunaton autou hnegken en pollh makroqumia skeuh orghV kathrtismena eiV apwleian"

Romans 9:22 - What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?.

Are our broadest hopes broad enough? Shall there be a nook or abyss, in all the universe of God, finally unlightened by the Cross? Shall there be a sin, or sorrow, or pain unhealed? Is the very universe, is creation in all its extent, a field wide enough for the Son of God?

[rosered]

   :HeartThrob:  you are  dearly loved brother David !!!   
I can also appreciate your encouraging  message  and keeping the   Christ in you  and hope of glory alive  and well !     :dsunny:

[FineLinen]

Dear Rose: You are a dear, and dearly beloved encompassing you in His great love.

My precious wife & I just left a gathering of saints singing Spirit inspired songs of great magnitude in worship of our great God. In that environment I began to realize we are born into this great wonder of Him, & the Song of all songs which cannot be learned, one must come out of it!

Bless you and yours, my dear, & thank you for your kind word.

The 2nd Death

"Orthodox theology holds the second death to be a state of endless torment in which the sufferers are held forever in conscious being by a continuous act of Divine preservation, with the sole object of a punishment without end. This however would in no sense be death. The second death does not perpetuate the hopeless condition of the sinner to all eternity.

What the Holy Spirit means by 'fire and brimstone' is 'divine purification,' or a judgment fire which consumes all that is antagonistic to divine law and love.

Before the Great White Throne, that vast throng, their naked spirits conscious now of the blazing holiness of God, will be subjected to the process of the second death. What those processes are, their intensity and their duration, we are not told.

They will suffice, however, not in themselves to perfect, but to bring those who suffer them to that agreement with the judgment upon sin which they effect, and through the cross finally to reconcile them to God (Col. 1:20), in a subjection where He will be 'All in all.'

When that acquiescence in judgment upon sin is reached, and applied in soul and spirit, then will be possible the final victory over death. Hence it is written that when this subjection is reached, then and only then, 'the last enemy, death, shall be destroyed.' " -A. E. Saxby

From Him the all, thru Him the all, in Him the all

[FineLinen]

Dear Andrew: There is so much I am incapable of speaking to you regarding this glorious message. Gary A. has actually placed a wonderful book into the internet filled with answers to our questions.  Print out the pages, or better yet buy the book.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm

Christ Triumphant

Preface

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

Chapter I – The Question Stated

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

Chapter II – The Popular Creed Wholly Untenable

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

Chapter III – The Popular Creed Wholly Untenable (continued)

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

Chapter IV – What the Church Teaches

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

Chapter V – What the Church Teaches (continued)

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

Chapter VI – Universalism and Creation

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

Chapter VII – What the Old Testament Teaches

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

Chapter VIII – What the New Testament Teaches

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

Chapter IX – What the New Testament Teaches (continued)

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

Chapter X – Summary and Conclusion

Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm

[marie glen]

The punishment of the Father of all fathers is not merely correction: it is correction that improves, changes, transforms for the better.

Our God punishes with an objective in view, not as an end in itself!

There are dual aspects to our Father’s Realm as shown in the following…

Tamiym/ 'ymt means to be consumed, destroyed, exhausted and spent, but also to be finished and made sound.

Kalal has the same meaning, linking destruction, being spent, exhausted, as well as to be finished and made sound.

Tamam, the root word of Tamiym means to be finished, complete, summed up, made whole: linked with to be consumed, exhausted, spent and destroyed.

Shalam/ ~IX, another expression of destruction, has the scope of being finished and ended, made good or whole, & being made sound, coupled with to be restored.

Shebar, rooted in Shabar, means breakout, and being brought to birth; and underlying new birth and breakout? To be crushed and broken. Again there is dual meaning in our Lord’s words of destruction and re-creation.

Chalowph

The destructive Hebrew word Chalowph is rooted in being altered, renewed, changed, and to sprout again. It should also be noted that this is not just change, but change for the better.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

It is becoming clear to me after following the Living One for these past 62 years how slow I am. The outer laminar spheres of the unspeakable unknown is beginning to break upon my poor thick being. I do trust each of us as we are caught up into Him will find many stars and galaxies breaking from single points of light in His heavens. What a wonderful journey this is!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Originally Posted by wellsmaine 

Is this a town in Maine.. I grew up in Maine.. I believe there's a town called Wells.. :gsmile: :dontknow:

I asked the Lord (again and again and again in the past) for insight into how his death saves us. He finally directed my thoughts to the times I helped my grandmother with her food preservation; specifically, the freezing of string beans. We would pick them and then snap them into shorter pieces and then blanch them before bagging them for the freezer. I asked her why the blanching for a few moments in boiling water. She told me if beans are not blanched, even if frozen they would spoil (due to enzymatic action that is stopped by blanching).

So, to keep it short, the beans are not altered but the enzymatic action is stopped. For universal salvation to happen, as with beans not going to ruin, humanity needed (and needs) a blanching. If we are like spiritual beans, the bean remains a bean but the change wrought by God doesn't depend on the bean. And a blanched bean tastes better, too!

Blanch green beans in a large stock pot of well salted boiling water until bright green in color and tender crisp, roughly 2 minutes. Drain and shock in a bowl of ice water to stop from cooking. Heat a large heavy skillet over medium heat. Add the oil and the butter.

_________

And to poke at Calvin, my grandmother did not will to save one string bean and not another with her blanching -- and not save them all by blanching the entire pile. Funny how my grandmother was wiser than Calvin's limited atonement God. LOL I'm sure, though, The Salvation entails the use by God of all the functions of creation (like neutralizing green bean enzymes) including quantum physics and other functions we may never be aware of, or ever understand in this life.

Amen! :thumbsup: A Great example! Simile.. I have thought of it as all being inoculated against the carnal / self first/sin/"missing the mark" character and all the trouble it causes..  It being ultimately and virtually, a bottomless pit of negative potential.. But the only way to PROVE it?? Give every one a taste of its fruit..

Amen.. green beans! To preserve - blanche! :thumbsup: :gsmile:

[marie glen]

P.S. -

"What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath–prepared for destruction." Romans 9:22

This is a verse which makes me think this letting choices other than His - an offshoot of thinking and reasoning ability - to exist and run their course is His great Truth Proving (to ALL) drama "of the ages"... Experience said to be the best teacher.. In a production you need more than one (type of) character.. hence the wheat AND the tares.. two fruits maturing.. two harvests(Rev.14). Proving to all that there is only one "Way" which is Life. Any other can only ever be tribulation, apocalypse and death/annihilation. [The true destiny of us all, except for His "building the remedy in from the foundation/beginning"..] :banana:


Imagine.. being so all-capable, that you can let all these things run their course, even to the point of the bottomless abyss of potential, like horrors such as wars.. etc.. ..yet in the 'end' "ALL" return to Him.. Will be reconciled, made whole and well.. (and blanched/inoculated against any teeny tiny speck of evil/imperfection (which even a minuscule speck is an abyss of potential), as opposed to the wide open vista and "green pastures" of His Perfection and Life.

[marie glen]

...And I think we do know what the fiery stream of God is, having been, and being baptized in fire - via both trials and praise..

Logically I find myself convinced that because God did the electing and choosing - assigned the roles! (In this truth proving drama of life as we presently know it).. Then why would my repenting (upon 'day' of Judgment) be some horrible experience just because it was my Father's choice to not endow me with the gift of faith during my brief life?

"All the Earth will remember (Hebrew, come to their senses!) and turn to the LORD, and all families of the nations will worship/rejoice before Him.: Ps.22:27

:Chinscratch: It seems to me that verse can only be fulfilled in two places, or time. Either while the dead are dead - which I think I'm realizing, is a belief.. Or after their resurrection "from the tombs". (Graves w/ headstones? Lol.)

Will their after this life reconciliation be an instant event? Or a process? I lean toward thinking the process, is a learning and a writing on the heart and mind process. And the administration of ages, should the Lord cause more details, more of an outline of it to emerge to the understanding of the church, I get the strong inkling, it proves UR/CU. ...As a beautiful, pristine presentation of God's kingdom? ...It's popular I've found out on the web, to cast all scripture as metaphor - metaphor onLy. ThAt's the mistake, the adding to or taking away.. by adding man's thoughts.. I've been reading, studying, like many others, and praying to understand for 40 years.. He builds on His truths. Be it the literal, or, the metaphor. If we demand it be - only - one or the other, if one is tore away from God's Word.. I have to believe we are supposed to / are encouraged to know both the metaphor and the literal..  :sigh: It's getting to be my favorite rant about the faith and condition of the church/ecclesia.. sorry. :gsmile:

I believe destruction is literal. We all are destroyed, it's the prerequisite to being born again. Without His intervention (plan, works) once He endowed the ability to think and reason, those ones would ultimately perish. Period. End of story. A truth which needs to be thoroughly understood by all of heaven and earth?
:2c: :girlheart:

[marie glen]

The whole of created life shall be delivered/set free from the bondage of corruption...

"What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath–prepared for destruction." Romans 9:22

Fitted/ Prepared=katartivzw

Katartivzw=

To render or to fit.

To make sound or complete.

To mend what has been broken or rent.

To repair what has been broken or rent.

To put in order.

To arrange. To adjust.

To fit or frame for one's self.

To strengthen, to perfect, to complete.

To make one what he aught to be.

Dr. Marvin Vincent

Fitted/prepared= kathrtismena=

Literally: adjusted or mended.

"ei de qelwn o qeoV endeixasqai thn orghn kai gnwrisai to dunaton autou hnegken en pollh makroqumia skeuh orghV kathrtismena eiV apwleian"

Romans 9:22 - What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?.

Are our broadest hopes broad enough? Shall there be a nook or abyss, in all the universe of God, finally unlightened by the Cross? Shall there be a sin, or sorrow, or pain unhealed? Is the very universe, is creation in all its extent, a field wide enough for the Son of God?

cloud nine!  (images are down :)