What does religion and theologians mean when it is said that, 'we need to keep it in context.' ?
Or, 'you took that out of context'
I know what context is : the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning.
What does it mean?
when you are across the street from the entrance to a 5 block neighborhood you can see the entrance that faces you and a couple of houses. You might draw conclusions from what you see about that neighborhood. But if you get in a chopper and rise up to see the whole neighborhood from above and from several different vantage points your opinion about that neighborhood might change dramatically.
Context is the whole picture. The entire spectrum of scripture concerning a topic and including pertinent and relative connective issues.
To make a doctrine of matthew 26:46 leads one to believe in ET.
Add in Eph 1:9-11; Col 1 16-21; Romans 11:32-36; Rev 5:13 and a couple others and you have UR
Context is everything.
It is the perspective of the heights, as opposed to the perspective at ground level.
There is a context for every topic in the scriptures. Context is the paradigm of God. The mind of Christ. If we stop short of the context, we are cutting it out of whole cloth.
It is easy to "prove" a point if you ignore the broad spectrum of insights provided by many sages and their words- drawing from one or two verses that support a particular view.
It may be more difficult to "wrap up" a point if someone is taking you out to deeper water in a context you are as yet unfamiliar with, yet "reality", which is the true knowledge of God, contained in the "many faceted" wisdom of Christ, is the ultimate context- ad we know not yet what we shall be :o)
Religion eliminates context by erecting towers and strongholds that prevent seekers from looking at thing the tower builders object to. Little worlds, little minds, little spirits, unrighteous stewards.... peace :o)
Yes, I can understand what you say, yet the way context seems to be understood in religion and taught is that we must stay within the context of that particular verse or verses. I was taught, and for many years practiced it, when I read say John chapter 4, I would go back at least 2-6 verses in chapter 3 so that I would stay in context; but I found that to be poppycock.
Although a few times it was worth the re-track.
So to stay in context like the thread that is going now on "Saved" should not all the ways that Jesus and the Apostles told how it is to be saved/salvation, should not all the scriptures be taken in to the arena? We cant just say
Eph 2:8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you--of God the gift,
Eph 2:9 not of works, that no one may boast;
And that's it, take it to the bank. Can we?
Quote from: micah7:9 on August 30, 2011, 05:47:35 AM
So to stay in context like the thread that is going now on "Saved" should not all the ways that Jesus and the Apostles told how it is to be saved/salvation, should not all the scriptures be taken in to the arena? We cant just say
Eph 2:8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you--of God the gift,
Eph 2:9 not of works, that no one may boast;
Exactly. I don't know that anyone's not said that.
Clips from 3 of my posts in that thread;
-----------
All that's written is for our learning
Trying to understand and reconcile the scrips, IMO, doesn't always just come easily, and I know very little. But let me ask you this; if the Bible in one place says "you're saved by grace not works, it's a gift"; then in another place says "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"; then says something along the lines of "working/hoping that I may attain" something in the future (paraphrase); doesn't that indicate there's more than an "ordinary, surface reading" might show? One person can take part of it and say, well, it's only grace. Another can say, well, it takes works. While another can say we're already saved, and another, no, we're going to be saved - and ALL pull out one or two scriptures to "prove" their point.
IMO, that's why much more than one verse needs to be looked at.
-------------------
Maybe you're talking about something else though, sorry for addressing it as personal if it's not.
micah, this was a pretty good thread on context, with the quote being the Opening Post to that thread;
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/christian_life/context_scripture_5012.msg54349.html#msg54349
They say the 3 main things in real estate are "location, location, and location". In Christian circles, we hear "context, context, context". I'll venture we ALL believe context to be important. I'll venture further though, that often where we begin to differ is how we interpret/understand context. I don't have all the answers to this, it's something I work on. I do have a thought and some questions though.
A thought is that when we take the words of Jesus to the Jews/House of Israel, prior to His death and resurrection; Paul's message primarily to the uncircumcision (the nations/Gentiles); Peter's message primarily to those of the circumcision (Jewish-Christians); then pull scriptures from the Revelation (and boy, how many understandings do we have about to whom that was primarily written? ); then, we often put all that together in a sack, shake it up, and start pulling out pieces of all that here and there to make our point(s). Some would say that's not taking scripture in context, or rightly dividing it. All important, all for our instruction, but still, a need to be "careful with the context and primary audiance".
On the other hand, I believe there are others who would stand more on the side of pretty much taking all scripture as absolutely being primarily directed at everybody, no distinctions made.
So, actually a couple of questions... so generally, 1) how important do you think context is, and 2) what's your understanding of what context of scripture even means?
Bonus observation...seems many even dip into the OT and attempt to apply (sometimes misapply) things from there onto New Covenant believers...ever know anyone who thought it was sin and absolutely would not eat out at a restaurant because they thought they were honoring the sabbath?! Maybe some of you haven't been as exposed to that as much as me, but growing up in the little country, Pentecostal churches in which I grew up, I'd say thought processes like that was very common...often times perhaps even never taking grace into account!
I believe when taken in context and rightly divided, all scripture reconciles. And in the final analysis, however we individually see that working, maybe if we all shared what we see as through that glass darkly, include a huge dose of "Jesus is Love and He's our Savior", we'd actually have more unity of spirit despite our differences of understanding. What do you think?
I have not attained this, but I'm thinkin'....God's blessing, James.
""you're saved by grace not works, it's a gift"; then in another place says "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"; then says something along the lines of "working/hoping that I may attain" something in the future (paraphrase); "
"""you're saved by grace not works, it's a gift"
Php 2:12 So that, my beloved, as ye always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, with fear and trembling your own salvation work out,
As long as I've heard that verse it caused me fear and wonder. But then I was told to look at the verse after the COMMA.
Php 2:13 for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
And then I find the PERIOD. I aint me doing the WORKS, Glory.
Mat 24:13 but he who did endure to the end, he shall be saved;
Mar 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved, yet he who disbelieves shall be condemned."
My whole point is that no one is saved, we are all being saved. And getting saved is a bunch more that walking up to the front when the preacher calls.
Joh 6:44 no one is able to come unto me, if the Father who sent me may not draw him, and I will raise him up in the last day;
OK, I know that's your point. But what about the other verses and the context? lol
OK bro, I'll back out of this for awhile. Be blessed in your searching. I hope you do read the great big long post and benefit from it. :bigGrin:
Quote from: jabcat on August 30, 2011, 06:17:22 AM
OK, I know that's your point. But what about the other verses and the context? lol
OK bro, I'll back out of this for awhile. Be blessed in your searching. I hope you do read the great big long post and benefit from it. :bigGrin:
:dsunny: :gthumbsup: :handshake: :happyclap: May the Lord continue to bless His children!
Quote from: micah7:9 on August 30, 2011, 05:47:35 AM
Yes, I can understand what you say, yet the way context seems to be understood in religion and taught is that we must stay within the context of that particular verse or verses. I was taught, and for many years practiced it, when I read say John chapter 4, I would go back at least 2-6 verses in chapter 3 so that I would stay in context; but I found that to be poppycock.
Although a few times it was worth the re-track.
So to stay in context like the thread that is going now on "Saved" should not all the ways that Jesus and the Apostles told how it is to be saved/salvation, should not all the scriptures be taken in to the arena? We cant just say
Eph 2:8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you--of God the gift,
Eph 2:9 not of works, that no one may boast;
And that's it, take it to the bank. Can we?
Well I agree with that. For a Pharisee, context is limited to the law. For someone who is using grace as a license to sin, context is limited to liberty. For a liar, the truth is "out of context"- because his context is a lie. That's why we have the Logos and the Spirit and the brethren.
Context is a double edged sword. And like most swords it's used to kill :winkgrin:
Take a handful of verses and build a doctrine on it. When someone challanges that doctrine start wielding the context sword. All what's done in most cases is use that sword to chop off bits of context all over the place. The result is that context often is nothing more than a collection out of context verses.
Plus the range of the context is determined by the doctrine.
Personally I think the best Christians are former Jews. I think the have the best view on context....
As for the grace vs. works debate: some are of the opinion that there are distinct gospels for the Jews and the Gentiles. Gentiles are saved solely by grace, but for Jews good works are required.
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 30, 2011, 08:50:45 AM
Context is a double edged sword. And like most swords it's used to kill :winkgrin:
Take a handful of verses and build a doctrine on it. When someone challanges that doctrine start wielding the context sword. All what's done in most cases is use that sword to chop off bits of context all over the place. The result is that context often is nothing more than a collection out of context verses.
Plus the range of the context is determined by the doctrine.
Personally I think the best Christians are former Jews. I think the have the best view on context....
Yes I can see, "Take a handful of verses and build a doctrine on it." and the "challenges" are begun, but I see for the most part, the handful of verses taken that developes into a context usually is a doctrine for man's use.
Still, I believe that when a believer begins to seek the Kingdom of God with the Truth of what the Bible reads and the Holy Spirit teaches and reveals, the context of the Truth that it ministers is found from Genesis to Revelation. The context of the story within a chapter or several can only be in a context if, it is with or of Truth when All His Words are brought together.
Found this verse and for me it was an eye opener.
Psa_119:160
The sum of Thy word is truth, And to the age is every judgment of Thy righteousness!
Quote from: Aleax on August 30, 2011, 03:24:14 PM
As for the grace vs. works debate: some are of the opinion that there are distinct gospels for the Jews and the Gentiles. Gentiles are saved solely by grace, but for Jews good works are required.
Yikes! and I thought there was only one gospel
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Yes, some do say that. There's some specific expositions on it, even some writing within this forum by a member or two that I may look for later.
The closest I can personally get to that POV is that there were some cultural and belief differences between Jews and Gentiles, so they approached/understood some things differently - so James and Peter addressed some things in that regard to the Jews, while Paul took a little different angle (culturally, with their background, etc.) with the Gentiles. It was the difference between those coming out of the Law and those who were never under the Law, but both "figuring out" how to follow Jesus coming from their own unique perspectives. I can see at least some of that.
But Jesus is the Savior. One gospel to both Jew and Greek. :thumbsup:
Quote from: jabcat on August 31, 2011, 08:02:24 AM
Yes, some do say that. There's some specific expositions on it, even some writing within this forum by a member or two that I may look for later.
The closest I can personally get to that POV is that there were some cultural and belief differences between Jews and Gentiles, so they approached/understood some things differently - so James and Peter addressed some things in that regard to the Jews, while Paul took a little different angle (culturally, with their background, etc.) with the Gentiles. It was the difference between those coming out of the Law and those who were never under the Law, but both "figuring out" how to follow Jesus coming from their own unique perspectives. I can see at least some of that.
But Jesus is the Savior. One gospel to both Jew and Greek. :thumbsup:
:thumbsup:
There is no context if you dont know. :bigGrin:
In the beginning, the earth was without form and void, and the Spirit hovered over the waters, then God said, "Let their be LIGHT!", and separated the light from the darkness.
Context begins.
In the beginning I was walking in darkness and veiled to the light, carnal and in confusion, without form and void of the of Christ, then God spoke into my spirit, Let there be LIGHT! and there was light, and that light became my Life. And God saw it and it was good.