I'm reading a book about Arius at the moment (no - I don't want to discuss trinity), Arius used aidion to express God's eternity, this book is not about universalism or eschatology, just about Arianism. Arius believed Jesus was created before the times (chronoi) and before the eons, he said the Logos is not as eternal (aidion) as the Father is. He also believed in a ressurection of the flesh and life in the coming eon.
has anybody studied, which words did the early churchfathers use to express God's eternity? (I quess there must be many sources when they argued about the trinity), if they all used aidion and not aionios this might be further proof that aionios was never understood as eternal in these days.
btw does anybody know about Arius' eschatology? ET, annihilation or UR? some say he was influenced by Origen.
does anybody have the greek text of this eg.:
,_EN.pdf]http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/0213-0270,_Gregorius_Thaumaturgus,_A_Sectional_Confession_of_Faith_[Schaff],_EN.pdf (http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/0213-0270,_Gregorius_Thaumaturgus,_A_Sectional_Confession_of_Faith_%5BSchaff)I'm curios which terms he used to express God's eternity
QuoteHe is the only-begotten Son,—the only One that the Father has, and that He has given Himself to be reckoned in the number of mortals, and is thus reckoned first-born; those who circumscribe the generation of the Son by the Father with a measured interval after the fashion of man, and refuse to acknowledge that the æon of the Begetter and that of the Begotten are without beginning
it seems he wrote about an aion without beginning, so it seems he doesn't meant aion itself to mean eternity, would be very interested if anybody used
aionios to express God's eternity
Sven,
If you use the url tags is works ok
,_EN.pdf]http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/0213-0270,_Gregorius_Thaumaturgus,_A_Sectional_Confession_of_Faith_[Schaff],_EN.pdf (http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/0213-0270,_Gregorius_Thaumaturgus,_A_Sectional_Confession_of_Faith_%5BSchaff)
Can't help you with the Greek text. :dontknow:
I searched a bit and only found: http://books.google.com/books?q=Schaff++Philip&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ei=QQ6YSefdEomS-gbembjvCA&ct=property-revision&cd=1&num=100&as_brr=1 (http://books.google.com/books?q=Schaff++Philip&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ei=QQ6YSefdEomS-gbembjvCA&ct=property-revision&cd=1&num=100&as_brr=1)
And 2 German/Greek books.
http://books.google.com/books?as_q=Schaff+Philip&num=100&as_brr=1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_brr=1&as_pt=ALLTYPES&lr=lang_el&as_vt=&as_auth=&as_pub=&as_sub=&as_drrb=c&as_miny=&as_maxy=&as_isbn=&as_issn= (http://books.google.com/books?as_q=Schaff+Philip&num=100&as_brr=1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_brr=1&as_pt=ALLTYPES&lr=lang_el&as_vt=&as_auth=&as_pub=&as_sub=&as_drrb=c&as_miny=&as_maxy=&as_isbn=&as_issn=)
Not what you asked for but perhaps still of some use...
Many Lexicon editors derive the word "aidios" from aei, ever, or always: but it very likely has the same etymology as "hades," which they derive from a negative, and idein, "to see;" and therefore it signifies invisible, unseen, or unknown. In Romans 1:20 where it is applied to the power of God, it's translated "unknown" by Scarlett's New Testament, because we see or know only a very small part of God's power. The word is used in a limited sense by the Greeks. Thucydides has this phrase "othen aidion misthophoran uparchein" from whence he expected a perpetual salary. But this could be only a salary during his life time, therefore the word in Thucydides means a period unknown, though it will certainly end.
But the Blessed Life has not been left dependent on so equivocal a word (i.e. aion/aionios). The soul's immortal and happy existence is taught in the New Testament, by words that in the Bible are never applied to anything that is of limited duration. They are applied to God and the soul's happy existence only. These words are akataluton, imperishable; amarantos and amarantinos, unfading; aphtharto, immortal, incorruptible; and athanasian, immortality. Let us quote some of the passages in which these words occur:
Heb. vii:15, 16, "And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchizedek there ariseth another priest, who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless (akatalutos, imperishable) life." 1 Pet. i:3, 4, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy, hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, (aphtharton,) and undefiled, and that fadeth not (amaranton) away." 1 Pet. v:4, "And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not (amarantinos) away." 1 Tim. i:17, "Now unto the King eternal, immortal, (aphtharto,) invisible, the only wise god, be honor and glory forever and ever, Amen." Rom. i:23, "And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man." 1 Cor. ix:25, "Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible." 1 Cor. xv:51-54, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, (aphthartoi,) and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, (aphtharsian,) and this mortal must put on immortality (athanasian). So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, (aphtharsian,) and this mortal shall have put on immortality, (athanasian,) then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." Rom. ii:7, "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, (aphtharsia,) eternal life." 1 Cor. xv:42, "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption (aphtharsia)." See also verse 50, 2 Tim i:10, "Who brought life and immortality (aphtharsian) to light, through the gospel." 1 Tim. vi:16, "Who only hath immortality (athanasian)."
Now these words are applied to God and the soul's happiness. They are words that in the Bible are never applied to punishment, or to anything perishable. They would have been affixed to punishment had the Bible intended to teach endless punishment. And certainly they show the error of those who declare that the indefinite word aiónion is all the word, or the strongest word in the Bible declarative of the endlessness of the life beyond the grave. A little more study of the subject would prevent such reckless statements and would show that the happy, endless life does not depend at all on the pet word of the partialist critics.
Quote from: sven on February 14, 2009, 06:43:12 PM
Arius used aidion to express God's eternity
The situation with aidios seems to be about the same as with aionios where any inference of eternity is based upon the nature of the noun being modified and would necessarily have to be something inherent in it rather than in the superlative being used to describe it. I'll post something else that I have on aidios. Eternity in the modern sense is something that grew over many centuries because it wasn't a known concept to the ancient world according to many scholars. J.W. Hanson and Elhanan Winchester are two people that I cite on that, and in J.W. Hanson's observation of that, I believe he's quoting one or two scholars to that effect 'cause he gives you scholarly quotes to prove his thesis in his book on aion.
From J.W. Hanson:
There is but one Greek word beside aiónios rendered everlasting, and applied to punishment, in the New Testament, and that is the word aidios found in Jude 6: "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day." This word is found in but one other place in the New Testament, viz. Rom. i:20: "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead."
Now it is admitted that this word among the Greeks had the sense of eternal, and should be understood as having that meaning wherever found, unless by express limitation it is shorn of its proper meaning. It is further admitted that had aidios occurred where aiónios does, there would be no escape from the conclusion that the New Testament teaches Endless Punishment. It is further admitted that the word is here used in the exact sense of aiónios, as is seen in the succeeding verse: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." That is to say, the "aidios" chains in verse 6 are "even as" durable as the aiónion fire" in verse 7. Which word modifies the other?
1. The construction of the language shows that the latter word limits the former. The aidios chains are even as the aiónion fire. As if one should say "I have been infinitely troubled, I have been vexed for an hour," or "He is an endless talker, he can talk five hours on a stretch." Now while "infinitely" and "endless" convey the sense of unlimited, they are both limited by what follows, as aidios, eternal, is limited by aiónios, indefinitely long.
2. That this is the correct exegesis is evident from still another limitation of the word. "The angels - - - he hath reserved in everlasting chains UNTO the judgement of the great day." Had Jude said that the angels are held in aidios chains, and stopped there, not limiting the word, we should not dare deny that he taught their eternal imprisonment. But when he limits the duration by aiónion and then expressly states that it is only unto a certain date, we understand that the imprisonment will terminate, even though we find applied to it a word that intrinsically signifies eternal duration, and that was used by the Greeks to convey the idea of eternity, and was attached to punishment by the Greek Jews of our Savior's times, to describe endless punishment, in which they were believers.
But observe, while this word aidios was in universal use among the Greek Jews of our Savior's day, to convey the idea of eternal duration, and was used by them to teach endless punishment, he never allowed himself to use it in connection with punishment, nor did any of his disciples but one, and he but once, and then carefully and expressly limited its meaning. Can demonstration go further than this to show that Jesus carefully avoided the phraseology by which his contemporaries described the doctrine of endless punishment? He never employed it. What ground then is there for saying that he adopted the language of his day on this subject? Their language was aidios timoria, endless torment. His language was aionion kolasin, age-lasting correction. They described unending ruin, he discipline, resulting in reformation.
No contradiction in what I just either said or quoted. I said that Hanson quotes a scholar or two, perhaps three (don't have my copy of the book handy and too lazy to look at the tentmaker books page right now for his book on aion) that say that the ancients didn't have the concept of eternity that we've had in latter centuries. But evidently, he didn't insist upon that in what he wrote in his book, though he did throw it out there as what some scholars have said on it.
I found it just interesting, cause it seemed to me possibly noone ever used aiônios when refering to God but aidios, I think it's also unlikely that a language has two words for "eternal" both aidios and aiônios - I knew that aidios can be translated with something like "unseen" but I think it was used in the sense of "eternal" in ancient Greek and therefore I doubt if aiônios ever meant "eternal" when they already had a word with that meaning.