2 Thess 2:13

[redhotmagma]

2:13 But we ought to thank God always for you, brothers and sisters  loved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning  for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth

NET comment:
‡ Several mss (B F G P 0278 33 81 323 1739 1881 al bo) read ἀπαρχήν (aparchn, "as a first fruit"; i.e., as the first converts) instead of ἀπ᾿ ἀρχῆς (ap' arch", "from the beginning," found in א D Ψ Ï it sa), but this seems more likely to be a change by scribes who thought of the early churches in general in this way. But Paul would not be likely to call the Thessalonians "the first fruits" among his converts. Further, ἀπαρχή (aparch, "first fruit") is a well-worn term in Paul's letters (Rom 8:23; 11:16; 16:5; 1 Cor 15:20, 23; 16:15), while ἀπ᾿ ἀρχῆς occurs nowhere else in Paul. Scribes might be expected to change the text to the more familiar term. Nevertheless, a decision is difficult (see arguments for ἀπαρχήν in TCGNT 568), and ἀπ᾿ ἀρχῆς must be preferred only slightly.

I can't see the forest all these trees are getting in the way.  OF course it "can't mean" firstfruits because only christians are saved duh. 

[WhiteWings]

First fruits is the first harvest of the year. More harvests follow. Even tribulation is a harvesting term.

[redhotmagma]

exactly, but again the translators are blinded by their preconceived notions.  I love how arche is never used by Paul except "here", yet they choose it over the much more Pauline, and supported evidence because it doesn't fit their notions.

[WhiteWings]

the translators are blinded by their preconceived notions

To a certain extend that's certainly true because the Bible had to be aligned with the pagan views of the Romans.
The other issue is that translators just translated words. They never factored in culture. I see such flaws even in Dutch subtitles on US movies. Fairly similar cultures. Same time. But translation between vastly different cultures without factoring that in... well  :thumbdown:
I'm sure if the early translators would have been open minded and before they even translated their first word had taken an in depth course of Jewish customs according to Rabbi's Bibles would look a lot diffrent.

On this forum everyone know about harvests. I wonder what percentage of the Christians even know there are harvests in the Bible and the significance of them.

[Beloved Servant]

Perhaps, it's on a need to know basis!

[redhotmagma]

in this case its not a translation issue, really as much as a mss choice.  they had the word arche for first in less, and not as high quality mss, and they had whatever the word is for firstfruits in better and more mss to choose, and they chose the less quality and less likely considering Paul never used arche otherwise.

I agree very few people know about the harvests, like Beloved says maybe on a need to know basis.  I think may be one of those hidden mysteries coming to light as we enter into the tabernacles age.

[Beloved Servant]

For who too picked up the cross of Christ — yet Simon — the one who hears!

"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but my ears you have pierced ; burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require."

[WhiteWings]

Perhaps, it's on a need to know basis!

I would almost agree with that  :icon_jokercolor: because I'm not so gifted that I can figure out in a year what took theologians 2 millenia.

Maybe I was just lucky finding TM the first month I looked into Christianity. So my mind didn't get infected with ETism.

[WhiteWings]

in this case its not a translation issue, really as much as a mss choice.  they had the word arche for first in less, and not as high quality mss, and they had whatever the word is for firstfruits in better and more mss to choose, and they chose the less quality and less likely considering Paul never used arche otherwise.

What does "arche" mean?

[redhotmagma]

Its the word translated beginning in the passage.

[CHB]

Perhaps, it's on a need to know basis!

I would almost agree with that  :icon_jokercolor: because I'm not so gifted that I can figure out in a year what took theologians 2 millenia.

Maybe I was just lucky finding TM the first month I looked into Christianity. So my mind didn't get infected with ETism.

It wasn't luck, WW. It was an unseen hand that guided you here.  :happy3:

CHB

[WhiteWings]

I feel like a kid lookin' through the window of candy store ever since  :icon_king:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_avtZwXtvmP8/SU8LMFfQJOI/AAAAAAAAHHU/4n6TYECM0hg/s400/kid+at+the+candy+store+001.JPG)

[lomarah]

Hehe that made me happy WW.  :cloud9:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen, the Lord definitely brought him here..... :thumbsup: