As you can tell by User Name, I am a Universalist and a Catholic. Technically, I could be called a Cafeteria Catholic, since I decided to take a Universalist position as of a couple weeks. From most of my experiences in Catholicism, I knew little to nothing about the whole teaching on hell. I was aware of the Medieval concepts of hell, along with the Fire and Brimstone Sermons made by Fundamentalist Churches. Considering that the Catholic Church had canonized millions of Saints, but never declared a single soul in hell, I had assumed that no one was going to hell. I had held this position, since I knew that we really could not have full knowledge to be able to make a wise decision to choose eternal life or eternal death. When I had been out of highschool for a while, I had gotten into a real shocking video, called "To Hell and Back", dealing with Near Death Experiences spoken about by this Cardiologist. This video had shown millions of people burning in hell. Honestly, I could barely believe such a horrible idea of thousands burning. Then it tried to portray a message of "Accept Christ as your Savior or burn forever". From my experiences in Catholicism, we had never taught that Non-Christians gent to hell. In fact, we were always shown how similar our religions were. That same year, I had been introduced to a new thought regaurding hell from some new Jehovahs Witnesses I had met. This was the idea of Annihilationism. Jehovahs Witnesses believe that there are some figures in the bible who will not be resurrected, such as Judas, Pharoah, and Adam and Eve. At that time, I was beginning to develop severe Anxiety Disorder, due to being in an overly controlling Tech school that was similar to the controllingness of a Fundamentalist Church. Unfortunately, this Hell problem had came back to bite me in the Butt once Generalized anxiety Disorder came back a little worse than it had been since I had this before. I had found out some website stating that more people go to hell than heaven. It was a Fundamentalist Website, but I was shown the scripture that this was based on "The narrow path". However, I was wondering how on earth do people find salvation, its so difficult. Other websites told me I just had to believe. But then I had started to wonder about those who never knew of Jesus. They were consigned to torture just cause they were in the wrong religion, while some abominable fundies were saved just cause they were in the right religion? I don't think so. Then, I started embracing Annihilationism, since it seemed less barbaric than eternal torture. It seemed pretty biblical, not to mention more reasonable. My anxiety grew and trust in Catholicism went way down after I had accidently gotten into a video called "What every Catholic needs to know about hell". This video seemed barbaric, cold, and extremely negative, and completely different from the message I had learned from Church. Not to mention, Catholicism was starting to really bother me with all these doctrines, dogmas, and beliefs that were just way too many to except, let alone barely except the popes and bishops opinion as truth. Luckily, I had started drifting away from dogmatic thinking. But everytime I would read some Catholic literature on Hell on the Internet, I would start to get extremely scared. I was still holding to my opinions on Annihilationism. However, I was still pretty loyal to Catholic Authority in an unhealthy way. This got worse when I had read an excerpt all about "Catholic Dogma on Eschachology". This book like literally tried pounding down the whole extra-biblical doctrine of hell down my throat, and dealing with Anxiety does not help. So the anxiety gets worse. In fact, my panic had been going on 2 weeks. Anytime I had read some Catholic Literature, I would freak out, since I really did not desire to have to let other people think for me, and trust what they wrote. I figured out that I was actually dealing with Anxiety, and started treatment. Problem was I was still having intrusive thoughts about Hell, and was burdened with that feeling of having to except such absurd dogma. The biggest problem about this whole doctrine was a belief that only a few would be saved. The problem was, the "Righteous" ones were all just a bunch of Fire and Brimstone Holier than thou's who thought they were going to be saved while everyone else burns forever. So, it did not seem like either Heaven or hell would be very blissful. Heaven surrounded by a bunch of arrogant Pharisees, and watching all these great people burn forever. What a joke. One day, after I had been able to calm myself easily, some type of light came through me telling me to drop my burden(Dogma, hellfire, doctrine, and fear) almost like I had been shown not a dictator God depicted in Traditional Christianity, but a fatherlike figure. So, I started adapting Spirituality, and immediately lost anxiety. Problem was, I did not want to leave behind Christianity. I was still a strong supporter of Annihilationism, but the whole internet seemed against it, and not to mention was not widely excepted in Catholicism. I finally found tentmaker, and Universalism, which seemed biblical, historical, logical, and a very scholarly study.
:cloud9: Welcome to the Tent. I'm sure you will find things to help you in your journey. Blessings to you...... :welcome: :newb:
Welcome...God always comes with love.
blessings :icon_king:
UCatholic, remember that the links at the top of the page are helpful to find post you have been too.
show unread and show reply to post (Links) If you delete them all or mark them as read, then you will have those links to click to see who is talking and who is replying to your posts.
Please feel at home no matter what you believe.
Lee Damboise II
Caribou Maine.
:welcome: to the Tent... Universalist Catholic
I too was raised Catholic, yet would no longer accept such views... :mblush:
Happy reading!
Paul
"However, I was wondering how on earth do people find salvation, its so difficult. Other websites told me I just had to believe. But then I had started to wonder about those who never knew of Jesus."
Whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved - and, believing on Him for salvation, I believe, are certainly scriptural. However, Paul also teaches that ALL will be reconciled, each in his own order...some now, the rest later, when God becomes All in All. He gives some the faith to believe now, the rest will all eventually be brought to the place of "every knee will bow, every tongue confess Jesus is Lord" - because He WAS lifted up, so He'll "draw all men unto" Him, just as He said.
"Catholicism was starting to really bother me with all these doctrines, dogmas, and beliefs that were just way too many to except, let alone barely except the popes and bishops opinion as truth."
Believing on and trusting in Jesus for our salvation doesn't necessarily have to carry with it a lot of the religious dogma that we often attach to it. "Whom the Son sets free, is free indeed". :thumbsup:
Hi UC
Thats a New one on me... :icon_flower:
Welcome to Tent :icon_flower:
"Seven days without prayer makes one weak." Which is my way of introducing my reaction to your story in the OP. It leaft me feeling "week;" er, ah, "weak." Having gone through horrifying experiences of various sorts, and the worst ones were when being caught in the Word of God in some way that proved the rightness of my being tormented, I empathize with you. For instance, I've hardened my neck and been cut off suddenly, and that without remedy several times.
During the days of the Soviet Empire I remember reading of one writer who said to not believe anything he said, since he'd say anything when they tortured him. Truth makes me say the same; but, between that and my treasure of honesty and commitment to my word provides a rack upon which my conscience shrieks even at this moment.
One of the problems I have is I experience something of what the person on the screen or in the book is going through. Like the guy whose skateboard goes awry and he's flung to the pavement, breaking his arm in an instant, a shock wave goes through my body. Whatever I'm reading is the way I believe at the time. That empathy has its good side, I'm sure. But beyond that, as many on tentmaker can also testify, I know by personal experience torments of condemnation and fear of punishment generated by my sins and wrong views of what I thought was written in The Book of God.
Quote from: reFORMer on January 27, 2010, 06:23:16 AM
"Seven days without prayer make one weak."
:thumbsup:
UC welcom to TM.
May the truth be with UR. :bgdance:
Hello and Welcome
I'm very happy for you that you have found the forum. I can't say I know much about Catholicism, even though my entire family is Irish Catholic (so you can imagine I have a huge extended family). My Mom and Dad found it difficult financially to continue keeping us all in a catholic school after I was born, so I all I knew of it was Sunday mass and cc classes. I did learn of a burning in hell forever unfortunately. My Mom is still what I used to call a "practicing catholic" but now that I look at her life (72) I think "practicing" isn't a very good term. She has told me she believes everyone will be saved because as a mother no matter what any of her children did, she would never condemn them to hell so she believes neither would God. At this point in her walk, she doesn't believe any of the doctrines of the church, but she attends every week because she married my Dad at 16 and had to convert to catholicism because of his family and now it is her only source of fellowship (and I can understand the need for fellowship as I have absolutely no one in my family or friends that I share my love of Jesus Christ in that I spend every waking hour meditating upon Him and desiring to talk about Him).
Sorry for the rambling, but I think there are alot of Catholics that believe all will be saved, but are unable to come out "her" (the 4wc) and truly are missing a deeper walk in Christ because of it. So as I said earlier, I'm happy for you, may God bless your journey!
Peace
May God grant you peace and revelation by His Spirit!
SteveW
The catholic church did condemn a lot of people to Hell. King Henry VI was excommunicated from the church during the Tudor reign.. And excommunication, to Catholics, meant that you were immediately sentenced to Hell. They also canonized many, many saints.. But they were only Men and Women that did something to promote the faith. NOT EVERYBODY is going to heaven.
Heaven?
Jesus defined heaven.
How do you?
Paradise. Together with God for eternity, streets of Gold, gates of pearl. Eternal bliss. I can't wait.
At hand — the Lord Jesus defined Heaven by His very existence.
Quote from: TheDiscipleShip on February 17, 2010, 05:56:15 AM
Paradise, streets of Gold, gates of pearl. I can't wait.
An overpowering emotion or intense feeling, much like visiting Disneyland.
Where a person is carried beyond rational thought and self-control.
A rapturous delight.
peacemaker