Hello,
I introduced myself here awhile back, but I quickly grew inactive. I feel such great terror whenever I read the Bible, that I soon abandoned my attempts to study it while keeping in mind what I now know of UR.
I am so weary of Christianity, and I find myself more and more frequently wishing I could grow convinced there was no God at all so I would no longer fear.
The sheer amount of Christians insisting that eternal torment is the way of this "all-loving" God they serve, the harshness of even Jesus in the Gospels, the hate I see from so many of his (at least so-called) followers-- It is so dismal and draining. I find myself more and more wishing none of Christianity existed so I faced none of these perpetual fears.
The resentment I feel toward my own claimed religon, even as a Universalist Christian, leads me to such guilt. But God knows my thoughts.
Have any here experienced this? This simultantous longing for and repulsion towards Christianity?
I am looking for solidarity, I suppose, mostly because I find myself growing more and more doubtful that there is any real way to break free from the fear which resides beneath so much of the Christian faith.
Kate,
I hear all that you are saying.
I do not like the face of Christianity that the world sees. The fighting amongst different denominations as to who is right, who is saved, who is going to "hell" ... Churches concerned more about raising money for a new social hall or new AV equipment than to minister to widows, orphans and the poor ... Christians who are concerned with everyone else's splinters that they fail to see their beams in their own eyes ...
BUT I am comforted by the fact that this is all part of God's plan. He is allowing all to be disobedient so that he can show mercy on all.
Churches are made up of fallible humans in a fallen world--there is no way they will have it all correct and that is the point. I believe we are learning what it is like to live apart from God. Like children who are allowed freedom but unbeknownst to them their parent is watching and listening and allowing them to work things out for themselves so as to learn, and in the end a glorious outcome that the children didn't even know was underway at the time.
I myself don't fellowship much other than on TM and that helps me to keep my focus on God's plan. Through the Holy Spirit, the bible and the people here at TM I have learned so much and felt much more peace and closer to God than I have ever felt before. I look forward to continuing this journey of humbling myself, aligning myself with God's will, becoming hopefully more Christ-like, and growing in love for both God and all of humanity.
Because:
28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."
There is no rest and no peace apart from God.
All of us on here have had stories, many if not all have had some moments of despair ourselves. Life is hard and I have had quite a road in 32 short years, rocky and thorny at times, dark as well, until finally the light is shining through. And once you experience the light you hold onto it, and it grows and grows.
The comfort and faith in God that I have, I am able to say that I hope you achieve peace soon, but I know that you WILL achieve peace in God's perfect timing.
Hope some of this helps.
Quote from: Kate on January 23, 2016, 03:34:55 AM
Hello,
I introduced myself here awhile back, but I quickly grew inactive. I feel such great terror whenever I read the Bible, that I soon abandoned my attempts to study it while keeping in mind what I now know of UR.
I am so weary of Christianity, and I find myself more and more frequently wishing I could grow convinced there was no God at all so I would no longer fear.
The sheer amount of Christians insisting that eternal torment is the way of this "all-loving" God they serve, the harshness of even Jesus in the Gospels, the hate I see from so many of his (at least so-called) followers-- It is so dismal and draining. I find myself more and more wishing none of Christianity existed so I faced none of these perpetual fears.
The resentment I feel toward my own claimed religon, even as a Universalist Christian, leads me to such guilt. But God knows my thoughts.
Have any here experienced this? This simultantous longing for and repulsion towards Christianity?
I am looking for solidarity, I suppose, mostly because I find myself growing more and more doubtful that there is any real way to break free from the fear which resides beneath so much of the Christian faith.
yes..but seems like some Xns really want to believe in ET cos it makes them feel good or something.this guy I know holds onto his ET belief even tho I've presented him with so many Bible verses which prove UR..its almost like ET is a consolation for him cos he feels his life is a failure but at least he can console himself that all the people he's envious of will go to 'eternal torment'...ET makes him feel special, separate and ultra blessed cos he believes he's not going to eternal torment..he's going to heaven..I suspect there's quite a few in the church like him.So they will not change from a hellist position cos they really do not want to..so I've pretty much given up in trying to convince him of the truth of Universal reconciliation.
Hi Kate,
I think many of us have been there, I know I have. I went through a period of such darkness that the sunlight physically hurt me. This was simultaneous to my conversion to UR, most probably because I had so many Christians attacking me, including the pastor's wife of the church my ex husband was attending, who held my one year old daughter in her arms and shed tears over her, begging me not to "lead her astray".
It is a process, but I promise you it gets better. Now, six years later, I am more content and peaceful than I have ever been. Fear is basically non-existant in me (and for YEARS it seemed like fear was all I could feel). I trust and know with my whole heart that everything is ok, and will be ok.
Keep pressing on sis, it will get better. :HeartThrob:
Over the years, there was really only one thing I feared having to do with my faith. And that was that I didn't go to church. The churches did not seem to have the same Spirit as what I experienced from the Lord.. of love, but they seemed to project at least partially, an attitude of sternness, suspicion, etc.. be stern, disapproving so folks know they are sinners in need of saving.. Love was mingled in of course, with most.
But the Lord's Spirit was simply love.. and He showed me, I believe, how all want to be met with acceptance.. not held at arms length as the saying goes.. I never believed in the idea of 'hell'. And learned early on it was a mistranslation of "the grave". I did think some truly evil would end up lost.. (in a second death called lake of fire, which now I realize is only of a duration; hence worse case scenario even, is filled with hope/optimism).
So over the years I've been what I think of as a spiritual hermit, and I happily developed monk-like habits of quietude in the Lord, daily times of prayer and reading and study.. But it's only since coming regularly to tentmaker forums that I've completely given up my fear concerning my not going to church or belonging to a church.. I may, if life ever slows down a lot, etc.. in twilight years? attend church.. but I will be much stronger, without finding myself conforming.. the only one I want to conform to is Jesus..
....more and more, as I listen to other's thoughts and stories - and am blessed by them/what sweet brethren! - I realize what a shadow this 'hell' thing really is..!
"There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" - the 'stern' voice which seems to come from the Lord toward His sheep is a false voice. The voice of the Lord is quiet and soft.. I'm not saying there's never righteous anger over man and mankind's doings.. But even then, I believe the Lord's voice to the worse criminal is still the quiet voice of reconciliation.. How much more so, with His own who do believe in Him..
To me, it's always been Jesus and our loving heavenly Father, and not the church, not christianity..
It's been around for 2000 years and passed down through human hands.. made up of humans.. It's not surprising the good news has lost some of its glory.. and picked up some baggage over the years and centuries. I agree with GodIsLove that like a loving parent He is letting man's ways run their course.. otherwise I guess we'd be fully programmed, more like robots.. and I'm thinking that's not what He's after.. Let all go their own way.. get it over with.. and prove His point.. bless you Kate! I pray His peace will fill you and overflow, radiate around you, a perfect shield for any arrows of darkness directed your way.. shield of faith.. trust..
:girlheart: :hiya: :Pray:
Awesome post sisters and bro Daryll !! :HeartThrob:
KATEY ,
I feel the pain in your post ...
I would say 99% of ET religion is run by the carnal mind and that is the true enemy of the HOLY SPIRIT
Took me forever to figure that one out ... my own carnal mind could not reconcile the scriptures to a loving God
fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom ,, that is the carnal animal like mind that fears Gods punishments and is afraid to go near the Fire of Gods love
LOVE is somthing the carnal mind can never understand ,,,, the mind of Christ is the full assurance of the FATHERS LOVE though the SON
we are to have that kind of relationship with our heavenly Father
If you have children you know , that you want what is best for them children and they may be different from one another , but your LOVE is the same for them all
One is more independent and less needy than the other one my son is that way to us , I can not go for weeks without speaking to him , but when we do it is always a calm and sure conversation , he has a good head on his shoulders.. and all I can do is thank God for this !!
I do thank God because it is God giving him direction , his steps are set and I trust God to take care of us all in the same way ....
the daughter is different , she needs more attention , and security and needs are more evident ..
, both come from the same loins and womb , go figure ????
You can speak to the Son and he hears you , and the daughter does not hear you , it seems she has to go though the experience first and than hears your words!!! and than agrees
Seems we are all different and yet the same , and many times it is just learning to cope with our flaws and human minds , I have learned one thing over all the struggles , No one can torment you like your own mind can !!! it is a prison house , you cannot run from or escape , you cannot run away from yourself , you can from situations and others and GOD KNOWS you try , but the most tormenting thing is what you feel and how it makes you a prisoner of your own thoughts !
Folks call this mental illness and it is in a way , but every carnal mind has its own sin sickness that nothing can cure but JESUS HIMSELF
Let Him come in and clean out the jail house , ask and ask and keep on asking . Soon you will know His peace , and there is no understnding it
that carnal mind is bound , by His Love for you ,,,, as you begin the mind of Christ surrendering to the very core of your being almost child like in understanding how simple it is and how your own ideas of what wisdom is just got in the way and wore you out trying to plase God with it ...
It never ever could , it was never what you could do for GOD , BUT what God could do for you , that carnal mind wants attention and recognition as important that pride causes all manner troubles with the HOLY SPIRIT that warring wears you out to not wanting to ever know anything
the carnal mind knows good and evil and eats and feeds on it , but death is always the end result and the dead know nothing more than they did before they ate of it .. the mind of Christ is the heavenly places of peace and joy and Holy Spirit s love fruits of goodness and mercy on going purity seeing the good in everything and everyone !!
We all just need Jesus just that simple and truthful and come as a child , they want to know things and trust without fear , because they love naturally all the things that are innocent and pure and lovely and good for you and Father knows best .....
I have always thought the war was over the two minds ,the wisdom of the world verses the wisdom of God only one one can rule at a time and the other suffers that loss ... :dsunny:
:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :thumbsup:
Agree with the above, and to add my :2c: Not too many years ago, I came to this site and forum and I was full of fear, angst, guilt, and felt like I literally lost and doubted everything, and even if your problems are a hard burden now, you are not the only one. And I thank you for sharing this with us.
Tentmaker has done so much for my spiritual growth. I hope and pray it will do the same for you.
Be blessed here Kate. :Pray: :gimmefive:
I have had my moments, too.
But, I think the more we study and understand the Bible, and the more we pray and communicate through our thoughts to God, the more He will reveal Himself to us, and in that process, the fear dissipates and we come closer to Him. It is a long journey, with many a twist and turn, but, as I say to my friends, though I clawed my way up the mountain, the view is so worth it.
Be blessed. This is a great place to be, I believe. We have all been through a lot and we can witness and be supportive to one another, in true Christian fellowship.
Romans 8:15
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."
D. :gsmile:
Quote from: Kate on January 23, 2016, 03:34:55 AM
Hello,
I introduced myself here awhile back, but I quickly grew inactive. I feel such great terror whenever I read the Bible, that I soon abandoned my attempts to study it while keeping in mind what I now know of UR.
I am so weary of Christianity, and I find myself more and more frequently wishing I could grow convinced there was no God at all so I would no longer fear.
The sheer amount of Christians insisting that eternal torment is the way of this "all-loving" God they serve, the harshness of even Jesus in the Gospels, the hate I see from so many of his (at least so-called) followers-- It is so dismal and draining. I find myself more and more wishing none of Christianity existed so I faced none of these perpetual fears.
The resentment I feel toward my own claimed religon, even as a Universalist Christian, leads me to such guilt. But God knows my thoughts.
Have any here experienced this? This simultantous longing for and repulsion towards Christianity?
I am looking for solidarity, I suppose, mostly because I find myself growing more and more doubtful that there is any real way to break free from the fear which resides beneath so much of the Christian faith.
Hi Kate, welcome.
I had a hard time with the religions of the world and how they relate to the things in God's plan. At first I didn't think they did relate but if God is in control of all things then he is in control of these religions/denominations as well. They may even exist for our learning/benefit. You may ask yourself, how is this possible? Well, it teaches us to be patient, how to get along with those who see things differently than we do. It teaches us to not to follow man and be carried about by every wind of doctrine. I use to feel animosity toward them for teaching the wrong message to their congregation but now I know there is a purpose for it all and in His own time He will make all things new. I look forward to that day. Meanwhile we should all pray that God opens all minds and hearts to see the whole truth, that includs us. Paul said "what do we have that wasn't given to us"? I think God gives us what we know and we learn nothing by ourselves, if we did we could boast. We all were at the same place the rest of Christianity is. It is a journey and it is progressive as God sees fit. Just some thoughts I had while reading your post.
CHB
CHB :iagree: :thumbsup:
Thank you so much for your kindness and solidarity, everyone. It is frustrating-- I have been a convinced believer in universal restoration for over three years now, but whenever I try to approach God with these fresh eyes for an extended period of time, I am quickly seized by all the terror from my earlier days of believing eternal conscious torment.
I still find the Bible so painful to read, even though I "know" the universalist arguments. I dwell on the fear that those arguments are not true, because I realize more and more that I would find Christianity nearly intolerable if UR is false. The god of eternal torment is so harsh, so unloving, and yet I am continually reminded by other Christians that this IS the God of the Bible, who is, in some way I cannot understand, our loving Father.
It is an odd situation-- I so deeply desire a close relationship with God and yet find that relationship continually painful, because old doubts and fears so quickly resurface. I can be a "good Christian"--praying, reading devotionals, etc.--for a few days and then I grow tangled once again in that gripping terror that is so familiar to me. It makes me want to toss the Bible aside, because a god who doesn't exist, quite frankly, seems preferable to a god who tortures.
Kate we are children of God because of Christ's work.
We are individuals of a family- joint heirs with Christ.
Nothing can keep us from the love of God in Christ Jesus; NOTHING.
Our loving Father disciplines whom He loves. In the eternal picture this is a major project. Needs major lessons.
Study the writings of Paul- especially Ephesians about the plan, and Galations about how the flesh struggles with the spirit, why the law has been there while we are like students/kids under the legal age.
Our father in the flesh would not write us off neither can he cast us out of our family. This is only a hint of how incredible our real Father is in care and concern and development for us.
" I am continually reminded by other Christians that this IS the God of the Bible."
Used to be there in that situation. Assumed the preachers were teaching the truth. There is so much bondage to that system.
Christ came to set us free from the law, of sin, and death.
His grace is immeasurable.
Quote from: Ross on January 24, 2016, 04:41:33 AM
" I am continually reminded by other Christians that this IS the God of the Bible."
Used to be there in that situation. Assumed the preachers were teaching the truth. There is so much bondage to that system.
Christ came to set us free from the law, of sin, and death.
His grace is immeasurable.
:iagree: Kate: If your mind beats you up as you read the bible go ahead and set it aside for a while. Go to a website called ChristNotes.com and use the search portion for all the verses In Christ-In Him-In Whom and In The Blood and stay reading them until you get more settled on your acceptance In Christ. Get some good anointed worship music that lifts you up and just let him love on your soul. Worship him with the music. Sometimes you need to lay the book aside because there are several verses that will beat you up without the revelation of his love for you.
Quote from: He1MyHeart on January 24, 2016, 05:12:12 AM
Quote from: Ross on January 24, 2016, 04:41:33 AM
" I am continually reminded by other Christians that this IS the God of the Bible."
Used to be there in that situation. Assumed the preachers were teaching the truth. There is so much bondage to that system.
Christ came to set us free from the law, of sin, and death.
His grace is immeasurable.
:iagree: Kate: If your mind beats you up as you read the bible go ahead and set it aside for a while. Go to a website called ChristNotes.com and use the search portion for all the verses In Christ-In Him-In Whom and In The Blood and stay reading them until you get more settled on your acceptance In Christ. Get some good anointed worship music that lifts you up and just let him love on your soul. Worship him with the music. Sometimes you need to lay the book aside because there are several verses that will beat you up without the revelation of his love for you.
u got that right..there's some scary passages in the Bible that, if u forget how much He really loves u, can trip u up a little..I also find that if I study those passages in the original Greek, they are way less scary...seems like the translators often show their 'hellist' bias by translating these verses to show God in as terrifying light as possible (to fit their own agenda)...e.g. words like 'wrath', 'condemn', 'perdition', 'furnace', 'cursed' etc etc are way less scary and much softer in the original Greek (and carry quite different meanings) but seem hopeless or terrifying in the (misleading) English transliteration.
Quote from: darryl on January 24, 2016, 05:38:10 AM
Quote from: He1MyHeart on January 24, 2016, 05:12:12 AM
Quote from: Ross on January 24, 2016, 04:41:33 AM
" I am continually reminded by other Christians that this IS the God of the Bible."
Used to be there in that situation. Assumed the preachers were teaching the truth. There is so much bondage to that system.
Christ came to set us free from the law, of sin, and death.
His grace is immeasurable.
:iagree: Kate: If your mind beats you up as you read the bible go ahead and set it aside for a while. Go to a website called ChristNotes.com and use the search portion for all the verses In Christ-In Him-In Whom and In The Blood and stay reading them until you get more settled on your acceptance In Christ. Get some good anointed worship music that lifts you up and just let him love on your soul. Worship him with the music. Sometimes you need to lay the book aside because there are several verses that will beat you up without the revelation of his love for you.
u got that right..there's some scary passages in the Bible that, if u forget how much He really loves u, can trip u up a little..I also find that if I study those passages in the original Greek, they are way less scary...seems like the translators often show their 'hellist' bias by translating these verses to show God in as terrifying light as possible (to fit their own agenda)...e.g. words like 'wrath', 'condemn', 'perdition', 'furnace', 'cursed' etc etc are way less scary and much softer in the original Greek (and carry quite different meanings) but seem hopeless or terrifying in the (misleading) English transliteration.
great posts and advice!! :dsunny:
...you are so right darryl! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Quote from: Kate on January 24, 2016, 03:32:29 AM
because a god who doesn't exist, quite frankly, seems preferable to a god who tortures.
:Mcry: and there we have it, dear Kate.. you have summed it all up in that one sentence. how sad. I met the father in the Rocky Mountains, and not in a church, and I've so often been very happy about that! Only one thing I would add to the good advice given in this thread.. and that's nature. Seeking the spirit of Quietness under green trees and blue sky.. Jesus is "the exact representation of His character".
And I hope you will hang around here! If you put the bible aside for a while, you can still get some of the word here :gsmile: Give your mind time to catch up to your heart.. the accusing voice is a false voice.. habitual rejecting of it will cause it to flee.. lean back into the Lord/peace.. "beneath are the everlasting arms" ..the Lord bless! :HeartThrob: :Pray:
Peace, will spring up into joy. :Peace2: :HeartThrob:
"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; they shall walk, and not faint." Isaiah 40:31
Kate, God Bless You for having the courage to discuss this matter. There have been many times when I felt the same way throughout my journey of faith and I am glad to know that I am not the only one who has moments where I am weary. Keep on fighting the good fight of faith. The Lord will guide us regardless of which level we are at with our faith. He is always there to guide us all throughout our challenges.
Kate, fear and pain are part of the human condition, but God tells us there are better things ahead...
Quote from: marie glen on January 24, 2016, 04:24:12 PM
Quote from: darryl on January 24, 2016, 05:38:10 AM
Quote from: He1MyHeart on January 24, 2016, 05:12:12 AM
Quote from: Ross on January 24, 2016, 04:41:33 AM
" I am continually reminded by other Christians that this IS the God of the Bible."
Used to be there in that situation. Assumed the preachers were teaching the truth. There is so much bondage to that system.
Christ came to set us free from the law, of sin, and death.
His grace is immeasurable.
:iagree: Kate: If your mind beats you up as you read the bible go ahead and set it aside for a while. Go to a website called ChristNotes.com and use the search portion for all the verses In Christ-In Him-In Whom and In The Blood and stay reading them until you get more settled on your acceptance In Christ. Get some good anointed worship music that lifts you up and just let him love on your soul. Worship him with the music. Sometimes you need to lay the book aside because there are several verses that will beat you up without the revelation of his love for you.
u got that right..there's some scary passages in the Bible that, if u forget how much He really loves u, can trip u up a little..I also find that if I study those passages in the original Greek, they are way less scary...seems like the translators often show their 'hellist' bias by translating these verses to show God in as terrifying light as possible (to fit their own agenda)...e.g. words like 'wrath', 'condemn', 'perdition', 'furnace', 'cursed' etc etc are way less scary and much softer in the original Greek (and carry quite different meanings) but seem hopeless or terrifying in the (misleading) English transliteration.
great posts and advice!! :dsunny:
...you are so right darryl! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
thank you for the encouraging words, Marie ! :dsunny: :thumbsup:
there are 'seals' on the scriptures..and only the Lamb can 'open' them to us...men without understanding have attempted to
interpret it........the 'Word of God' even Jesus Christ must interpret the 'Word of God' Out of His mouth comes a two-edged sword...
and He rightly divides these edges....the scary edge of the scriptures is written unto the Kingdom of the Prince of this world..that
fights against the will of the Father that all men be saved and restored.......it will cut off the evil desire and malicious intention of
that evil/wicked one........the tender reassuring comforting words goes unto mankind..that they may know the love of the Father
that is shown unto them through Christ and all be gathered and delivered into the Kingdom of the love of the Son.
welcome Kate..may you find rest and comfort in the Lord here.......... :HeartThrob:
:cloud9: Welcome again......GOD hath not give us a spirit of fear......if God hasn't, WHO is? Focus on the last part I didn't quote, but of power, love, and a sound mind.
Start reading about the power of God and the power of His Spirit in you and through you, and you realize how much He loves you, and as the Word gets into you the sound mind comes. This is how I overcame fear. Blessings to you....
To HIS dearest Kate (of which you are)
You are being emptied so that you will be filled with Love, filled with His Spirit ..... you were in Christ when He was on the cross sealing your destiny in Him .....
If nothing else ..... know this ..... that He poured out a nature and returned it to the ground from which it came so that you will rise again through understanding that YOU ARE loved .....
HE WILL separate and IS separating you from a mindset of guilt, fear, condemnation that men have filled you with ..... HIS work in you WILL BE accomplished ..... for just as dross (impurities) is removed from the metal to purify it ..... it must come to the surface in order to be removed
YOU ARE BEING REFINED ..... made pure in His image so that He will shine "IN" and "THROUGH" you
Blessings sister Kate
:cloud9: Amen :thumbsup: