Hi all
Sometimes when I see verses like Matt 10.22
"You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved
If all are eventually saved, what of those who don't endure to the end, or is this talking about the 2 Resurrections?
btw, moderators, I had trouble logging in today, kept getting "fatal error". Any ideas? I had to go in here as a newbie.
Interesting info from Darryl Myatt!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lBzsb07VTw&list=PLzFFsbwV7bf68msi71Bx_e-vwtBwJQlJl
Cheers
Jock.
Hi Jock;
As you say, this verse says that not all will be saved.
However, being saved is protected from the things to come. In Christ we are transferred to the kingdom of Christ;
Col 1;13 " Who delivered us out of the power of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of His love."
This seems to be differentiating between this present kingdom, of which satan is currently in charge, and the kingdom of Christ which is not of this world.
John 18;36 " Jesus answered, ' My kingdom is not of this world;
if My kingdom were of this world my officers had struggled that I might not be delivered up to the Jews;
BUT now My kingdom is not from here."
He seems to be referring to His kingdom which is the next phase coming.
Then there is 1 Cor 15;28 " And when all things are subjected to Him, who did subject the all things to Him, that God may be all in all."
Seems to be that those saved are in the first resurrection. Christ establishes His kingdom. Then those who were not saved and missed out on this will be in the second resurrection to be corrected.
Ross, brilliant answer!! That straightened things out for me, thanks.
Jock :iagree:
Quote from: Ross on September 04, 2013, 03:30:25 PM
Hi Jock;
As you say, this verse says that not all will be saved.
However, being saved is protected from the things to come. In Christ we are transferred to the kingdom of Christ;
Col 1;13 " Who delivered us out of the power of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of His love."
This seems to be differentiating between this present kingdom, of which satan is currently in charge, and the kingdom of Christ which is not of this world.
John 18;36 " Jesus answered, ' My kingdom is not of this world;
if My kingdom were of this world my officers had struggled that I might not be delivered up to the Jews;
BUT now My kingdom is not from here."
He seems to be referring to His kingdom which is the next phase coming.
Then there is 1 Cor 15;28 " And when all things are subjected to Him, who did subject the all things to Him, that God may be all in all."
Seems to be that those saved are in the first resurrection. Christ establishes His kingdom. Then those who were not saved and missed out on this will be in the second resurrection to be corrected.
Ross, would you mind expanding on the idea of a second resurrection.
Seems the first resurrection refers to those separated by Christ.
The second resurrection when those who were not involved with the Christ in the 1000 years will rise to then have all this explained to them. They will be raised in the mortal state and so will need to then be changed from the mortal and put on Christ just like the first group did. This would explain why the last thing to be disposed of will be death.
Quote from: Ross on September 09, 2013, 04:06:13 PM
Seems the first resurrection refers to those separated by Christ.
The second resurrection when those who were not involved with the Christ in the 1000 years will rise to then have all this explained to them. They will be raised in the mortal state and so will need to then be changed from the mortal and put on Christ just like the first group did. This would explain why the last thing to be disposed of will be death.
I see ... is there a time line for this?
IMO, the word "saved" is often loaded with protestant and fundamentalist ideological baggage. It simply means delivered/healed/restored. Since Jesus is speaking there in context of the tribulations of disciples as they bring the "word of reconciliation" to the world at large- "saved" in this case is referencing the context of these trials and the believers who pass through them- not all people of all ages. Altho we know all people of all ages will eventually be "saved"(delivered/healed/restored) that does not mean every time the word "sozo"(gr.-saved) is used it refers to the "anakephalaomai"(gathering together of all things in Christ -Eph 1:10).
A paraphrase would be, "When all these trials come upon you, as you serve me in declaring the gospel, hang tough, and I will always see you through. I will always give you grace to overcome whatever you may face- even unto death."
I do not believe the verse has any relation to eschatology at all.
Psalm 95 describes a more generally applicable definition of "saved" that would apply in any time/historical context- as does Psalm 23, which are in my opnion, excellent resources for understanding Matthew 22:10
Paul gives this example in 2 Cor 6 of "enduring to the end" and being "saved"(delivered through trials)
We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain. 2 For He says:
"In an acceptable time I have heard you,
And in the day of salvation I have helped you."[a]
Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
3 We give no offense in anything, that our ministry may not be blamed. 4 But in all things we commend ourselves as ministers of God: in much patience, in tribulations, in needs, in distresses, 5 in stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labors, in sleeplessness, in fastings; 6 by purity, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Spirit, by sincere love, 7 by the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armor of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, 8 by honor and dishonor, by evil report and good report; as deceivers, and yet true; 9 as unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and behold we live; as chastened, and yet not killed; 10 as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
:2c:
eaglesway, I know what you mean about saying "I'm saved". Although I've often used it, I'm not comfortable with. Also "born again" and even "Christian". I know they are in the Bible but I choose other terms to speak of my faith. I usually tell people that I'm a follower of Christ.
Cheers
Jock :Peace2:
http://myth-one.com/chapter_25.htm
That is exactly how I feel as well Jock. So many "biblical" words hav been corrupted by popular usage that does not represent their true meanings that I try to be creative and careful about how I say many of these things.
For instance.... for so many people, if I say, "I am saved"- it instantly carries the connotation "you are going to hell and I am not" because that is what has been taught for so long. Without making myself crazy, I try to use alternate terminology to express spiritual reality than the trite pop Christian terminology that has held sway for s long now.
:thumbsup:
eaglesway, I agree and I, too, try to be creative and careful. When people ask me, (and they often ask me stuff about the Bible), about salvation, heaven, hell, etc. I tell them that one of the most wonderful things I've learned about the Bible through my reading and studying is that God has a glorious plan whereby He will bring ALL people to be with Him for all eternity. They look at me with eyes wide open (sometimes, mouth as well) but they want to hear more (some look like they're hoping that I'm right!!) I didn't close their ears by coming against any of their doctrines/teachings. There is so much to learn about HOW to share the glorious gospel... and for that I pray for each of us daily.
Quote from: irenic-inkwell on September 13, 2013, 01:59:04 AM
eaglesway, I agree and I, too, try to be creative and careful. When people ask me, (and they often ask me stuff about the Bible), about salvation, heaven, hell, etc. I tell them that one of the most wonderful things I've learned about the Bible through my reading and studying is that God has a glorious plan whereby He will bring ALL people to be with Him for all eternity. They look at me with eyes wide open (sometimes, mouth as well) but they want to hear more (some look like they're hoping that I'm right!!) I didn't close their ears by coming against any of their doctrines/teachings. There is so much to learn about HOW to share the glorious gospel... and for that I pray for each of us daily.
I had a nice conversation about God today with a few classmates in class after we finished a group project. One of the guys was a member of Cru, which is a popular Christian group around campus. He was wearing a lot of stuff for it so I asked him about it, and he told me all the stuff they do. He told me I should check it out sometime, which I would never do. I'd probably get kicked out right away lol. But we talked about our faith growing up in different institutions, and he said how he doesn't consider himself part of a denomination anymore. We agreed that denominations can't save anyone, only Jesus. :thumbsup: I will bring up the glorious gospel to him next time I have a chance and share that message with him.
Quote from: Warhawk17 on September 13, 2013, 02:46:12 AM
Quote from: irenic-inkwell on September 13, 2013, 01:59:04 AM
eaglesway, I agree and I, too, try to be creative and careful. When people ask me, (and they often ask me stuff about the Bible), about salvation, heaven, hell, etc. I tell them that one of the most wonderful things I've learned about the Bible through my reading and studying is that God has a glorious plan whereby He will bring ALL people to be with Him for all eternity. They look at me with eyes wide open (sometimes, mouth as well) but they want to hear more (some look like they're hoping that I'm right!!) I didn't close their ears by coming against any of their doctrines/teachings. There is so much to learn about HOW to share the glorious gospel... and for that I pray for each of us daily.
I had a nice conversation about God today with a few classmates in class after we finished a group project. One of the guys was a member of Cru, which is a popular Christian group around campus. He was wearing a lot of stuff for it so I asked him about it, and he told me all the stuff they do. He told me I should check it out sometime, which I would never do. I'd probably get kicked out right away lol. But we talked about our faith growing up in different institutions, and he said how he doesn't consider himself part of a denomination anymore. We agreed that denominations can't save anyone, only Jesus. :thumbsup: I will bring up the glorious gospel to him next time I have a chance and share that message with him.
I am so encouraged by this testimony warhawk, and as Irenis shared, I pray for each one of us that the Holy Spirit will giv us grace to share in a way that will lift up Jesus, because He said, "If I b lifted up I wil draw all men unto me".