Should Christians Participate in Military?

[NLoyd23]

Noted author, Dr. Gregory Boyd, discusses whether Christians should participate in the military.  Read the excellent guest article at http://www.nickloyd.com

[aspiring son]

Welcome to the tent, NLloyd 23. I pray for our troops regularly. Even if I don't believe in going to war, I believe God ordains all things ( Isaiah 45-7), thus also choosing those who defend our country. Some of them younger than me (28) risking their lives daily is for my freedom is extraordinary. Anyway, welcome and hope you are blessed hear among us.

Grace and peace,

Brandon

[rosered]

 
Hi NLoyd23 ,
 welcome to TM and good words Brandon  :bigGrin:

The Lord of Hosts [army]in heaven for the good of all ...

 To me this is   an interesting subject , my Son is joining the Air force in the spring . :msealed:
 and I do have  concerns about it
 but to me it is a matter of conscience.
 Everyone must in their hearts do what is right for them , 
we all must stand before the judgment seat of Christ and only the Lord can justify us .
 The great  thing about this is God knows our hearts already
and sometimes thats when we learn the most , what is in it  too  :HeartThrob:

 Blessings  :icon_flower:Rose

[jabcat]

I agree with son and rosie.  I know some disagree, but I don't believe in being an aggressor, but don't "come to my house" with a gun and ill intent and expect to not regret it.  For me, this also includes the military.  Do good with it, including protecting home and country.  I'm for strong borders, take care of business here. 

God has established earthly rule and authority, and somebody's gotta keep the peace.  God provided the sword and puts in place those to wield it...for His purposes.  Paul in Romans says those in authority with the sword carry out God's justice.  In the end, whether it's protection, financial provision, food on the table, it's God providing and He's in control.  :thumbsup:

[peacemaker]

Two men were making breakfast. As one is buttering the toast, he says:

"Did you ever notice that if you drop a piece of toast, it always lands butter side down?"

The second man responds:

"No, I bet it just seems that way because it's so unpleasant to clean up the mess, when it lands butter side down. And I bet it lands butter side up just as often."

The first man says:

"Oh, yeah? Watch this." (He drops the toast to the floor, where it lands butter side up).

The second man responds:

"See, I told you."

The first man says:

"Oh, I must have buttered the wrong side!"

The moral of the story is, be careful on what side you butter your bread!

Wars are the backdrop of this world, derived from the hearts of men, opposing the things of God; the fruit of His Spirit. If something is not good, right and just one-hundred percent of the time, than its not truth.

peacemaker

[Seth]

Two men were making breakfast. As one is buttering the toast, he says:

"Did you ever notice that if you drop a piece of toast, it always lands butter side down?"

The second man responds:

"No, I bet it just seems that way because it's so unpleasant to clean up the mess, when it lands butter side down. And I bet it lands butter side up just as often."

The first man says:

"Oh, yeah? Watch this." (He drops the toast to the floor, where it lands butter side up).

The second man responds:

"See, I told you."

The first man says:

"Oh, I must have buttered the wrong side!"

The moral of the story is, be careful on what side you butter your bread!

Wars are the backdrop of this world, derived from the hearts of men, opposing the things of God; the fruit of His Spirit. If something is not good, right and just one-hundred percent of the time, than its not truth.

peacemaker

Amen brother PEACEmaker. Blessed are you. Stand for the truth bro.

We cannot serve two masters....

[Seth]

Concerning the powers that God put in place for judgment. Consider this very carefully.

WHO DID GOD USE TO JUDGE ISRAEL?

The King of Babylon. The surrounding nations that God clearly defined as being wicked and evil unto themselves. The enemies of Israel and God were used by God, like a club in His hand to judge his own people. Does that mean we should be like them?

[jabcat]

We need to be careful to not fall in the ditch on either side of the road.  We may find ourselves needing to have someone pull us out on the Sabbath.

[Seth]

Both sides of the ditch are the world. The road itself is very narrow.

[jabcat]

That's one POV.  Ecclesiastes 7:16 is a good point of reference, IMO.

[Seth]

Really? Ecclesiastes is not the best example of a POV which has come to understand the words of our Lord: "He who seeks his life shall lose it." It is the POV of one who cries out "all is vanity!" because life is fleeting. Is it as fleeting as Solomon thought?

Nobody is a fool who obeys the head of the church, our Lord: "Resist not evil, but repay evil for good."

Those words, according to Jesus ought to be followed by the CHURCH, rather than "an eye for an eye."

[Seth]

James, just wondering why you didn't reference the "eye for an eye tooth for tooth" reference in the Law. Why not? It's in the Bible right? You ought to be able to reference it as proof that we should seek an "eye for an eye."

[jabcat]

No need to lash out and be irrational Seth.  Easy does it.

I'm a little older guy now...almost 52.  I've been a believer for many years.  I grew up in an extreme fundamentalist environment.  My thinking through the years has been very black and white/all or none, many times, "my way or the hiway".  I thought I was pursuing righteousness.  Often what I was pursuing, and still do, is my own view of righteousness...which often turns out to be self-righteousness.  I'm an expert  :sigh:.

I do believe, and will proclaim, there are some absolutes to the faith.  Jesus is God's Son.  He died on the cross for our sins.  We must believe on Him (through the faith He gives us) to be saved.  His Spirit is working within us.  God works all things according to His will...many, many more.

I believe there are some things though that are God's works in progress within us...revealing and teaching.  And if I lock in to "this is what's right and I ain't listening" - which I still do - maybe even now - then I may miss something God is working on showing me.

You have some strong beliefs.  That's great, especially if we're majoring on the majors, and not majoring on the minors.  I'll leave you alone - for awhile  :bigGrin:.  I think I may recognize some things in you that I see in me though, so I'm probably pestering you here and there like an overbearing uncle.  Forgive me if that's the case, and I'll try to give you a little more room - nephew.

You're a good guy.  There'll be things we both realize a few years from now, look back at in embarrassment, and go  :doh:.  It's OK.  Don't mean to discourage you, sorry if I have.  But I do encourage us to be seekers of God and the Kingdom and not to think we've arrived.

Keep up the good work.  God is working a work of grace within you.  

[jabcat]

I'm not sure what the rant is about an eye for an eye.  Don't see it as real related.  I did change my typo to 7:16 from 7:17...maybe you missed it, I don't know.  To directly answer your question though, I guess it would be that I usually don't believe in creating a whole set of doctrine necessarily around one scripture.  Most things are more complicated/involved than that.  Often one summary/all-inclusive, closed-ended statement doesn't bring into account the many facets that may be involved. 

If you want to build a doctrine around one scripture, let's not choose an eye for an eye.  Let's choose, say, where Jesus said "sell you coat/cloak and buy a sword".   Nah, let's not.  Instead, let's look at the bigger picture.  That's a little tougher job, but will probably keep us from starting 2 new denominations real quick.

There are many points of reference though, "touch-stones", with IMO, Ecc. 7:16 being a good over-arching guiding principle.   Anyway, I'll stand by my post above.  Have a good day.

[Seth]

I'm not sure what the rant is about an eye for an eye.  Don't see it as real related.  I did change my typo to 7:16 from 7:17...maybe you missed it, I don't know.  To directly answer your question though, I guess it would be that I usually don't believe in creating a whole set of doctrine necessarily around one scripture.  Most things are more complicated/involved than that.  Often one summary/all-inclusive, closed-ended statement doesn't bring into account the many facets that may be involved.  There are many points of reference though, "touch-stones", with IMO, Ecc. 7:16 being a good over-arching guiding principle.   Anyway, I'll stand by my post above.  Have a good day.

Wait a minute. Where are the accusations coming from? I am not ranting or being irrational, nor am I lashing out.  :sigh:

I brought up the "eye for an eye" reference to show that the only "guiding principle" should be our Lord's words to his church to follow. The Law demanded an "eye for an eye." Since that is so, why should it not be our guiding principle rather than "Resist not evil, yet repay evil with good?"

And if a principles from the Law of Moses does not "balance out" the words of Christ against itself, why should anything from Ecclesiastes?

[Seth]

If you want to build a doctrine around one scripture, let's not choose an eye for an eye.  Let's choose, say, where Jesus said "sell you coat/cloak and buy a sword".   Nah, let's not.  Instead, let's look at the bigger picture.  That's a little tougher job, but will probably keep us from starting 2 new denominations real quick.

The problem is when people think that Jesus was saying two different things when He said: "those who live by the sword shall die by the Sword."

And: "sell your cloak and buy a sword"

The question is, what sort of "sword" does Jesus want us to "sell OUR cloaks" for, and is He contradicting his own words? All you need to do is see the Spirit in his words to see how they fit together, and why Stephen did not use a sword when he was stoned to death.

He was stoned because he was using a different Sword than the world knew.

[jabcat]

OK, must have missed your point on the 'eye for an eye' reference.  I'm sorry.

I've said what I have to say for now.  No need to struggle.  God reveals to us all...step by step.

Have a good day.

[Seth]

OK, must have missed your point on the 'eye for an eye' reference.  I'm sorry.

I've said what I have to say for now.  No need to struggle.  God reveals to us all...step by step.

Have a good day.

It's all good bro. I never meant any harm. Hope you know that. Just presenting a view, passionate, yes, but never intended anything personal in my disagreement.

:Party:

[Beloved Servant]

To the original post:
We must follow on to know the Lord wherever His spirit leads.
From the candlestick to the Throne.

[peacemaker]

That's one POV.  Ecclesiastes 7:16 is a good point of reference, IMO.

"Do not be excessively righteous and do not be overly wise. Why should you ruin yourself?"

That would be prideful.

"For through the grace given to me, I say to everyone among you, not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think, so as to have sound judgment,..." (Romans 12:3)

peacemaker

[peacemaker]

Wars are the backdrop of this world, derived from the hearts of men, opposing the things of God; the fruit of His Spirit. If something is not good, right and just one-hundred percent of the time, than its not truth.

Amen brother PEACEmaker. Blessed are you. Stand for the truth bro.

We cannot serve two masters....

"And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect." (Romans 12:2)

Blessed are ALL peacemakers!

[rosered]

Noted author, Dr. Gregory Boyd, discusses whether Christians should participate in the military.  Read the excellent guest article at http://www.nickloyd.com

  good article  by the way thanks alot for sharing this with me  :icon_flower:

[sparrow]

Noted author, Dr. Gregory Boyd, discusses whether Christians should participate in the military.  Read the excellent guest article at http://www.nickloyd.com

Hi there... been reading a bit through the link you provided...

Good stuff...

looking forward to reading more in depth in the next few days.

:HeartThrob: