Hi I am Sceptic about universal restoration. Satan used my brother years ago to trap me in sin years ago before I fully understood the Gospel and consequence of sin. I have lived in constant fear of Hell and obsesses about my health since my grandma died.I recently learned about UR eight months ago, but Hell preachers are ready to counter any argument and my beliefs waver back and forth. Help me find the truth please so I can have some peace of mind.
Perfect Love cast out fear. May the Love of Christ and the Father do so for you....
every perfect present is from above.
Fear not,little flock, for I have overcome the world.
Tell me if this helps - it is a summary of my own research, which began with seeing a picture of the Tibetan Buddhist version of Hell. I noted that the biggest difference between that Hell and the Christian Hell was artistic style, and I said to self: Where did our ideas of Hell come from? That was twenty years (or so) ago, and it is easy to bring up images of Hell (Christian or Tibetan Buddhist) on Google or Bing, so you can compare...
Hell is a 404 – location not found.
There are four main props of Hell, and I will knock them down in succession:
Prop One
Without the concept of the Immortality of the soul, Hell begins to get a bit shaky. It's very simple to dismiss if we look at the story of the creation of man by God. We all know it - God took some dirt, made a body, breathed into the body the Breath of Life, and that body became a living soul. To simplify:
dead body + breath of life = living soul
Now, let's reverse it:
living soul - breath of life = dead body
Perfect logic - start with the living person (soul) and kill it, so that the breath of life returns to God who gave it, and what do you have left? A dead body! So that means that when you're dead, you're dead. There is no immortal soul to go to Hell, Hades, or the Inferno, for the soul is temporal, and after death, is simply not. The same Bible which the Eternal Torture (ET) crowd likes to quote about Hell, says that "the soul [living person] that sinneth shall die." Being temporal, the soul [living person] becomes non-existant at death and there is therefore no soul at all to damn to Hell. The spirit cannot go there either, because it has returned to God who gave it. Is God going to send part of His own Spirit to Hell? God forbid! God forbid also the absurdity of sending a dead body to Hell, except in the original sense of the word. You see, an old meaning of "Hell" is as a verb, meaning to cover or conceal. For instance, in the days before refrigeration, you might keep fruits and vegetables in a root cellar, or lacking that, you might dig a trench to below the local frost line, lay straw in the bottom, place, say, potatoes on the straw, cover the potatoes with more straw, and cover the whole thing with the dug-out dirt. It was called "helling" the potatoes. When you bury a dead body, you are helling it, too. There is a very close connection between hell as concealment into the ground, and hell as the grave. There remains, if you examine all this closely, nothing to send to Hell except a dead body into the ground. If we jump forward from Genesis to the Revelation, we see that Death and Hell [the grave, actually] are both thrown into the Lake of Fire. Now, I ask you, if such a thing has happened, how can Hell still exist (if it ever existed), and how can the dead be in Hell if Death has been destroyed? Let's move on.
Prop Two
"Hell" as we have come to understand it, has come down to us, like the Greek concept of the Immortality of the Soul, from pagan sources. Immortality of the Soul comes from Greek philosophy, but all the other trappings of Hell come from various mythologies. I don't want to elaborate too much on the Scandinavian "Hel," the Greek "Hades," or the Latin "Inferno," but you can look them up for yourself if you are not familiar with the mythology. This is how "Hell," or "the grave," became Hell, the place of eternal torment. Check any good dictionary, especially the Oxford, for information on Hell. "Hell," as I said above, is also a verb, meaning "to bury," reinforcing the "grave" usage. Even the Buddhist concept of Hell is very close to the ET version, the main difference being in the artistic style of the representation. Fiery Hells and red Devils are common in pagan mythologies. Two props down, it won't take much more.
Prop Three
This one is very simple – several words in the Bible have been translated as "Hell" improperly. A couple of hours with a Strong's or Young's Concordance should clear up this chestnut for you. Consider these correct definitions of terms used in the Bible:
Sheol (Hebrew) - grave.
Hades (Greek) - grave, place of the unconscious, place of the unknowing.
Gehenna (Greek) - a location near Jerusalem you can visit today, used as a garbage dump in Jesus' time, where trash and dead bodies were burned - thus a figurative term.
Tartarus (Greek)- a place of holding for angels who followed Satan; a term borrowed from Greek mythology.
To give you an idea of translators having a theological agenda, did you ever think about the way the proper name of God, YHWH, has been rendered as "LORD"? At the same time, the names of all and sundry pagan gods have been (improperly) rendered properly, when the God who said not to even speak their names gets short shrift. This happens because the (mis)translators had and have an agenda, and "Hell" is no different. One prop left.
Prop Four
If you care to dig into it, you will find that apart from what I have already mentioned, which eliminates both the concept and word of "Hell" from the Scriptures, all the evidence for "Hell" is based on fiction. Yes, fiction - from the Inferno of Durante degli Alighieri (Dante), to John Milton's Paradise Lost, to Mary Baxter's A Divine Revelation of Hell, everything we have to support the concept of Hell is fiction, even if it is Biblicaly-oriented faction. Every last account and discription of "Hell" is unverifiable, from epic poem, to novel, to short story, to sermon, to EweToob video. Fiction - Legend - Myth - Lies.
Heaven, yes!
Hell, no.
Hi and welcome US :dsunny:
While sin obviously isn't good there is a huge difference in sinning on purpose or because of being deceived.
Luke 12:48 but he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. And to whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom they commit much, of him will they ask the more.
Preachers will keep countering your arguments for ever. That's just how it is. How often Catholics and Protestants have debated? Or the endless debate between Calvinism and Arminianism. I bet you can add a few to that list.
I think the only way to ease your mind will be much study. On this forum everyone will assure you UR is the truth. On a Calvinist forum.... Well, I'm sure you get my point. So unless you personally see the truth in UR every argument will confuse you and cause fear. Likely not what you hoped to hear, but it's my personal opinion.
Few sites with articles to get you started:
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/ShepherdsVoice/websites.htm
http://tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html
Finally, keep in mind that doctrine doesn't save. Only Christ does.
Quote from: WhiteWings on January 19, 2014, 09:22:18 PM
Finally, keep in mind that doctrine doesn't save. Only Christ does.
:2thumbs:
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on January 19, 2014, 08:35:40 PM
Hi I am Sceptic about universal restoration. Satan used my brother years ago to trap me in sin years ago before I fully understood the Gospel and consequence of sin. I have lived in constant fear of Hell and obsesses about my health since my grandma died.I recently learned about UR eight months ago, but Hell preachers are ready to counter any argument and my beliefs waver back and forth. Help me find the truth please so I can have some peace of mind.
Hi UniversalSceptic, did you know that Apostle Paul himself never mentions hell? Not saying that's proof of itself, it if hell were real, wouldn't that warrant some mention? Some description? The sick diatribe called Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God mentions hell no less than 51 times in a single sermon. Paul himself, in all his writings put together mentions it a grand total of 0 times. Why not?
Quote from: WhiteWings on January 19, 2014, 09:22:18 PM
Hi and welcome US :dsunny:
While sin obviously isn't good there is a huge difference in sinning on purpose or because of being deceived.
Luke 12:48 but he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. And to whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom they commit much, of him will they ask the more.
Preachers will keep countering your arguments for ever. That's just how it is. How often Catholics and Protestants have debated? Or the endless debate between Calvinism and Arminianism. I bet you can add a few to that list.
I think the only way to ease your mind will be much study. On this forum everyone will assure you UR is the truth. On a Calvinist forum.... Well, I'm sure you get my point. So unless you personally see the truth in UR every argument will confuse you and cause fear. Likely not what you hoped to hear, but it's my personal opinion.
Few sites with articles to get you started:
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/ShepherdsVoice/websites.htm
http://tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html
Finally, keep in mind that doctrine doesn't save. Only Christ does.
The troubling thing is I have tried praying to god the typical way on my knees with hands clasped but I am not very good with words so I end up rambling. I try to pray to him in my heart. I am always told to break sin you have to have a close personal relationship with god. I have made a commitment in the past to read the bible everyday, but I always end up breaking that commitment.
US, please take comfort from the study I found below. thestoryofdarren.com (http://thestoryofdarren.com)
There is more of you are interested. Before you read anything, just ask yourself, would perfect love do such as thing torture children.
Love Julie :HeartThrob:
So what is Hell exactly?
Many believe that Hell is a hellish fiery pit where they believe our loving God will burn millions if not billions of His children in immeasurable pain forever. Could such a horrific belief have any Scriptural foundation? No, just plain and simple no.
Please take comfort in the following words of Jesus.
From the Darby bible: John 12:32. and I, if I be lifted up out of the earth, will draw all to me.
And now Paul.
I Tim. 4:9-10
"This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who IS THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially of those that believe.
Yes, I totally trust in the living God who is the savior of all men, women and children specially those that believe and also that I recognize this as a faithful saying worthy of never being forgotten. Is this not the actions of a loving God, worthy of all love and nothing else from each of us?
Now many will totally disagree with this, saying that I am twisting the truth. Yet have I not quoted from the Scripture word for word. I have not even given you an opinion. They say this because they pick and they choose what they want to believe to please their itching ears.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
This is not surprising because Jesus himself said that few will find the path to righteousness though many will claim that they have. Yet, Jesus has given each of us a great foundation.
1Cr 3:11. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Cr 3:12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
1Cr 3:13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work.
1Cr 3:14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
1Cr 3:15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
Many times people have told me that this could not possibly happen, yet Paul clearly states that though this person, loses everything, this person will be saved as if by fire.
What fire?
Hbr 12:29 For our God [is] a consuming fire.
Yes, God is the "Spiritual" fire that will burn for ever, for all eternity. Nothing or no one will ever extinguish Him. One can see that the fire of God is just like the supposed Hell fire. Does this mean that the fire will burn away man's sinful nature forever? Of course not, as Paul stated above: the fire will burn only while there are impurities to burn. Just like a fire burning in a forest, it can only burn while there is something to burn.
But what is the real purpose of this fire? Not what you might assume. Read on.
Mal 3:2 But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner's fire or a launderer's soap.
Yes, every impurity will be washed away, and Gods children ALL OF THEM NOT A SELECT FEW. will be as pure as white snow.
Ah, many will now wonder about the word "Punish" but did you know that Jesus never used the word in any of the Gospels. In fact the King James Version only has the word "punish" mentioned once in the Greek Scriptures (New Testament).
Act 4:21
So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for all men glorified God for that which was done.
Strong's Concordance gives a very interesting meaning to word:
Punish (G2849)
a) to lop or prune, as trees and wings
b) to curb, check, restrain
c) to chastise, correct, punishment
d) to cause to be punished
Do you find it surprising that "punishment" is only the 3rd rendering? Even then it falls behind, Chastise and Correct. Could it be possible that the word "punishment", should actually be "correction?" Fits perfectly with the all Consuming Fire of God, correcting each individual by burning up everything that is not based in LOVE.
Paul never used the word Punish. In fact did you catch what he really said earlier?
1Cr 3:13 their *** WORK *** will be shown for what it is......
It is "our" work that will shown for what it is, not "us!" We will be cleansed, corrected. Now this might not be pleasant, but it is not going to last forever and we will be purified because of it.
Jesus is the great shepherd and he spoke of this.
Luk 15:2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them."
Luk 15:3 Then Jesus told them this parable:
Luk 15:4 "Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn't he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it?
Luk 15:5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders
Luk 15:6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, 'Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.'
Jesus is the Great Shepherd, He will not cease searching until the last person is found and bought back into his fold.
But then, what of Revelation and all of the horrors mentioned there?
As already shown, Revelation might not mean what has been commonly believed. Would you believe that God's Word provides a clear path of events. There is life after Revelation, life for all.
Darby Translation:
Col 1:25 of which I became minister, according to the dispensation of God which [is] given me towards you to complete the word of God,
Yes, Paul was commissioned to complete the Word of God. Not John.
Heresy? Hardly, because we have the Scriptures that agree.
"In the book of Revelation we do not have the final plan of God. Paul, in 1 Cor. 15:22-28 takes us much further into the future than does the book of Revelation. To illustrate this more clearly, study the following: 1 Cor. 15:22-28 as compared with the new heaven and new earth of Revelation 20, 21 & 23
In 1 Cor. 15:22-28, we have:
* No more rule
* No more authority
* No more power
* No more enemies
* No more reigning
* All subjected
* No more death, death destroyed.
* All made alive, immortal
In Revelation 20, 21 & 22, we have:
* Still rule (20:6; 22:5)
* Son still reigns (22:1-5; 11:5)
* Authority (21:24,25)
* Power (21:24,25; 22:2)
* Kings (21:24-26)
* Saints reign (22:5)
* Second death still exists (21:5)
* The nations still mortal (22:2)
Consequently, Col. 1:16-20:
* All in heaven and earth created in Him (verse 16)
* All for Him (verse 16)
* All estranged are reconciled (verse 20)
Romans 5:18-21 (Darby)
18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous. 20 But law came in, in order that the offence might abound; but where sin abounded grace has overabounded, 21 in order that, even as sin has reigned in the power of death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
We can find much comfort in the above Scripture. Did you notice that Paul speaks of the same many? If the word (the) was not used it would simply state 'many' however, it does not, it states everyone, 'the many.'
I hope you can find peace and comfort in all that I have presented here. I have not taken anything out of context. The concept of Hell that is preached in Churches across the world is simply a lie.
I will leave you with this. If God, having created man and allowed man to fall into the hands of Satan, then openly punishes many millions in a way too graphic for words. Is then God not committing acts more horrendous than Satan has ever committed? One simply will not find anywhere, acts performed by Satan that come anywhere near horrendous or quanative as many attribute to the future acts of God. Where is the Love? I ask this in all sincerity, where is the love?
As Jesus said before he died on the Cross: Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do. Amen
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on January 20, 2014, 01:59:28 AM
The troubling thing is I have tried praying to god the typical way on my knees with hands clasped but I am not very good with words so I end up rambling. I try to pray to him in my heart. I am always told to break sin you have to have a close personal relationship with god. I have made a commitment in the past to read the bible everyday, but I always end up breaking that commitment.
So you are not perfect? The Apostle Paul who wrote more of the new testiment then any other autor was not perfect either.
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Paul needed a savior.
One thing to remember is that God is omnipresent. God is always with us........now. God is not upset with us. Even in our shortcoming God is with us.
The future will take care of itself. Work on today and do not fear the future.
Matt 6:34(NIV) Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
The relationship with Christ is always about right now. If we take care of now, we don't need to fear the future. We learn to trust God in the moment, then we know that the future will be just the same as now. God will not change. God is love.............now. God will be love in the future as well, no matter the doctrines that have been preached.
God's desire for you is that you find life and peace.
You will learn tricks along the way as you make your faith your own. One thing I did when reading the Bible was to memorize scriptures that ministered to me. Not scriptures that someone told me were good. Scriptures that I found on my own, and they had an effect on my thinking. When I had them memorized I would say them throughout the day. The understanding of God and His love deepened in me from this practice.
Journaling is good as well. I would just write whatever came to my mind. As I wrote, I started to hear the self talk within me. I came to some awesome realizations through journaling. That was a long time ago. Some of the astounding things I learned back then still minister to me to this day........35 years later.
Prayer? I use to yell at God all kinds of things. I found out God could take it. Back then you could find places to go a little crazy.
Good group of folks here. Glad you asked.
.
Quote from: JulieTang84 on January 20, 2014, 02:23:40 AM
It is "our" work that will shown for what it is, not "us!"
Julie, that reminds me of writers' meetings I attended many years ago, where one of the ground rules was to critique the writing, but not the writer (the prose/poem, not the person).
Also, I think it is safe to say: UR
must be correct, lest any man should boast.
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on January 20, 2014, 01:59:28 AM
The troubling thing is I have tried praying to god the typical way on my knees with hands clasped but I am not very good with words so I end up rambling. I try to pray to him in my heart. I am always told to break sin you have to have a close personal relationship with god. I have made a commitment in the past to read the bible everyday, but I always end up breaking that commitment.
God reads your posts on this forum too. God saw your attempts to pray. You attempts count too because God knows/looks into your heart. He sees you want to change and I'm sure He looks at that in very positive way.
QuoteI am always told to break sin you have to have a close personal relationship with god.
To stop sinning that sinner has to be close to God. But sinners never are close to God so can't break with sinning.
Sounds like an endless circle to me. But still people that never were Christians before found God. Big time sinners became saints or at least a lot better than before. So to me it seems God has some methods to break the circle.
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:65 Then he said, "That is why I said that people can't come to me unless the Father gives them to me."
The two verses indicate Father is active in your/our salvation. To me it means if He doesn't draw, for whatever reason you/we will not come to Jesus.
Romans 11:32 For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all.
God, isn't a big bad dude that constantly is watching for us to make mistakes.
2 Sam 14:14 We each must die and disappear like water poured out on the ground. But God doesn't take our lives.
Instead, he figures out ways of bringing us back when we run away.Same for Jesus. He's a Shepherd. A shepherd isn't just someone who owns sheep; it's a person who actively manages/takes care of his sheep. Yeah that Shepherd even actively searches for that 1 dumb sinning sheep that ran away.
About the narrow road is said that few shall find it. "find" is an activity of the believer.
Does that mean salvation is in our own hands? That one sheep couldn't find the flock either. Perhaps didn't even tried to. But that's not important because the parable tells us the shepherd decides he is going to find that sheep.
--> Shepherd decides how many are lost. Not the sheep.
--> The parable also tells us any shepherd will go searching. No questions asked.
The woman in the parable of the lost coin is about a woman searching for a totally passive coin. The coin didn't even make itself lost. Neither did it wanted to be lost or found. When the woman found the coin she was very happy.
--> The coin had zero input on its fate.
The prodigal son sort of rejected his father. He chooses to be cut off. The way he spends his money shows me he clearly was on the wide road. And that road completely destroyed him financially. Did his father reject him after this destruction/death?
No, he was extra happy when his son returned.
--> The last chance is never revoked.
Shepard=owner of sheep. Woman=owner of coins. Father=owner of son.
They all were sad when their "thing" was lost. They all celebrated when it was found again.
So no matter how many things Father lost on the wide road; He'll eventually finds them again.
So I think many things can be explained in different ways. And as isolated 'facts' the various explanations can be acceptable. But when when all those facts are grouped together only one conclusion can be drawn....
Simply beautifully said WW :HeartThrob:
Love Julie :girlheart:
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on January 19, 2014, 08:35:40 PM
Hi I am Sceptic about universal restoration. Satan used my brother years ago to trap me in sin years ago before I fully understood the Gospel and consequence of sin. I have lived in constant fear of Hell and obsesses about my health since my grandma died.I recently learned about UR eight months ago, but Hell preachers are ready to counter any argument and my beliefs waver back and forth. Help me find the truth please so I can have some peace of mind.
Quote from: Lazarus Short on January 19, 2014, 09:14:05 PM
Tell me if this helps - it is a summary of my own research, which began with seeing a picture of the Tibetan Buddhist version of Hell. I noted that the biggest difference between that Hell and the Christian Hell was artistic style, and I said to self: Where did our ideas of Hell come from? That was twenty years (or so) ago, and it is easy to bring up images of Hell (Christian or Tibetan Buddhist) on Google or Bing, so you can compare...
Hell is a 404 – location not found.
There are four main props of Hell, and I will knock them down in succession:
Prop One
Without the concept of the Immortality of the soul, Hell begins to get a bit shaky. It's very simple to dismiss if we look at the story of the creation of man by God. We all know it - God took some dirt, made a body, breathed into the body the Breath of Life, and that body became a living soul. To simplify:
dead body + breath of life = living soul
Now, let's reverse it:
living soul - breath of life = dead body
Perfect logic - start with the living person (soul) and kill it, so that the breath of life returns to God who gave it, and what do you have left? A dead body! So that means that when you're dead, you're dead. There is no immortal soul to go to Hell, Hades, or the Inferno, for the soul is temporal, and after death, is simply not. The same Bible which the Eternal Torture (ET) crowd likes to quote about Hell, says that "the soul [living person] that sinneth shall die." Being temporal, the soul [living person] becomes non-existant at death and there is therefore no soul at all to damn to Hell. The spirit cannot go there either, because it has returned to God who gave it. Is God going to send part of His own Spirit to Hell? God forbid! God forbid also the absurdity of sending a dead body to Hell, except in the original sense of the word. You see, an old meaning of "Hell" is as a verb, meaning to cover or conceal. For instance, in the days before refrigeration, you might keep fruits and vegetables in a root cellar, or lacking that, you might dig a trench to below the local frost line, lay straw in the bottom, place, say, potatoes on the straw, cover the potatoes with more straw, and cover the whole thing with the dug-out dirt. It was called "helling" the potatoes. When you bury a dead body, you are helling it, too. There is a very close connection between hell as concealment into the ground, and hell as the grave. There remains, if you examine all this closely, nothing to send to Hell except a dead body into the ground. If we jump forward from Genesis to the Revelation, we see that Death and Hell [the grave, actually] are both thrown into the Lake of Fire. Now, I ask you, if such a thing has happened, how can Hell still exist (if it ever existed), and how can the dead be in Hell if Death has been destroyed? Let's move on.
Prop Two
"Hell" as we have come to understand it, has come down to us, like the Greek concept of the Immortality of the Soul, from pagan sources. Immortality of the Soul comes from Greek philosophy, but all the other trappings of Hell come from various mythologies. I don't want to elaborate too much on the Scandinavian "Hel," the Greek "Hades," or the Latin "Inferno," but you can look them up for yourself if you are not familiar with the mythology. This is how "Hell," or "the grave," became Hell, the place of eternal torment. Check any good dictionary, especially the Oxford, for information on Hell. "Hell," as I said above, is also a verb, meaning "to bury," reinforcing the "grave" usage. Even the Buddhist concept of Hell is very close to the ET version, the main difference being in the artistic style of the representation. Fiery Hells and red Devils are common in pagan mythologies. Two props down, it won't take much more.
Prop Three
This one is very simple – several words in the Bible have been translated as "Hell" improperly. A couple of hours with a Strong's or Young's Concordance should clear up this chestnut for you. Consider these correct definitions of terms used in the Bible:
Sheol (Hebrew) - grave.
Hades (Greek) - grave, place of the unconscious, place of the unknowing.
Gehenna (Greek) - a location near Jerusalem you can visit today, used as a garbage dump in Jesus' time, where trash and dead bodies were burned - thus a figurative term.
Tartarus (Greek)- a place of holding for angels who followed Satan; a term borrowed from Greek mythology.
To give you an idea of translators having a theological agenda, did you ever think about the way the proper name of God, YHWH, has been rendered as "LORD"? At the same time, the names of all and sundry pagan gods have been (improperly) rendered properly, when the God who said not to even speak their names gets short shrift. This happens because the (mis)translators had and have an agenda, and "Hell" is no different. One prop left.
Prop Four
If you care to dig into it, you will find that apart from what I have already mentioned, which eliminates both the concept and word of "Hell" from the Scriptures, all the evidence for "Hell" is based on fiction. Yes, fiction - from the Inferno of Durante degli Alighieri (Dante), to John Milton's Paradise Lost, to Mary Baxter's A Divine Revelation of Hell, everything we have to support the concept of Hell is fiction, even if it is Biblicaly-oriented faction. Every last account and discription of "Hell" is unverifiable, from epic poem, to novel, to short story, to sermon, to EweToob video. Fiction - Legend - Myth - Lies.
Heaven, yes!
Hell, no.
:banana: :dsunny: :iagree:
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on January 20, 2014, 01:59:28 AM
The troubling thing is I have tried praying to god the typical way on my knees with hands clasped but I am not very good with words so I end up rambling. I try to pray to him in my heart. I am always told to break sin you have to have a close personal relationship with god. I have made a commitment in the past to read the bible everyday, but I always end up breaking that commitment.
hi! There are very good responses here!! :hiya: ...the verses I think of is how Jesus said "why do you call me good? there is none good but God" --- wow! if Jesus said that, how could I ever think I can be "good"..
Also coming to mind is how Paul said "to mix law with grace" (try to be good enough) "is to fall from grace"
Whereas Jesus gave us basically one commandment "love God".. daily, love God.. God is the onLy source of goodness! we draw near to Him and are helped.. Drawing near, we will be filled with God (tho not perfected until we "put on" incorruption/incorruptibility at the (1st) resurrection) - filled with God who is love, we will love our fellow person, and Love works no ill.. does no evil.. but still not perfect until resurrection when we will put on Christ and will put on immortality (1 Cor 15:51-53)
To mix law with grace is to fall from grace.. to mix law with grace is to put law on the throne with Jesus, anything on the throne with Jesus (surely?) becomes an idol.. Imo, the fruit God is sowing is love, loving God, loving our fellow person.. but none of us perfected until resurrection/His return..
Romans 8:1 "there is therefor now no condemnation, for those who are in, Christ Jesus" :cloud9:
Quote from: marie glen on January 20, 2014, 05:52:03 PM
Jesus said "why do you call me good? there is none good but God" --- wow! if Jesus said that, how could I ever think I can be "good"..
:first: