Hello; I came to full preterism several years ago. It answered all questions concerning eschatology but did not resolve my issues with eternal punishment. I have always had a problem with God punishing a 70 year life forever.
Also, it did not fit with my concept of a loving God. I leaned toward annihilation for awhile but it seemed to me that the enemy won more battles than God. Did not seem right. Slowly I came to the point of universalism. I am now a Universalist/Preterist. Are there others?
Welcome to the Tent! I don't know much about Preterism, but have seen things posted about it which amaze me. Perhaps you could enlighten?
Hi Kevin..varying degrees, some "partial". I don't personally know of any "full" preterists. Gary has been described as at least partial, while a few others have labeled him as simply preterist. I don't see him as fully preterist, as in ALL things 100% fulfilled already, "nothing left to do but live it out". He stated at one point that "some very important things happened in 70 AD that we need to pay attention to", as well as saying he doesn't rule out some things having double fulfillment. I'm personally probably partial, but definitely not full (to the max definition of the term). Anyway, good question re: "are there any"...maybe someone knows of a full preterist UR believer.
Hi all
I do think some preterists have come and went along the way here at the Tent .
I believe the history part as signs and examples of destruction of 70 AD was important.
Just as the WW2 was also , the gathering and scattering of the Jewish nation and the remnant that remained as a few was always ''of a truth '' in the old testament scriptures witness and the reality in the new testament witness
It was both prophesied and fulfilled in that sense , it was literal , every eye seen this,and a record was kept , as well as spiritual , that many eye witnesses perceived ,'' a knowing truth'' in their spirit .
I personally , and its me here speaking , just hate ''labels '' No one ,is just one thing , we are ever changing and are many things to many natures .noun
1.
the fundamental qualities of a person or thing; identity or essential character
2.
(often capital, esp when personified) the whole system of the existence, arrangement, forces, and events of all physical life that are not controlled by man..Lord it is a shame they fail to say GOD here for fear of offense :sigh:
3.
all natural phenomena and plant and animal life, as distinct from man and his creations
A label is titles given or meant for, Mom to some sister to others , man or dad or son or brother , spirit or flesh , good or evil , and than there is the religious labels of what ever
and than there is the unbelieving and faithless , the wise and foolish in natures also the sexual in natures , animal instinctively in natures
Compared to in the Bible We are as , cities set on a hill , light , darkness wheat & chaff , branches , grapes , beasts , goats , sheep , virgins , children , brothers , sisters , living stones , wicked , unclean , dead men , rocks ,wineskins probably all at the same time etc ... :footmouth:
One thing for sure God never Changes and should remain the focus , unless you like your head to spin around in circles lol :laugh: :wacko2:
Also it is God Himself who separates and eliminates and changes us
I see things from a history repeating stance. I think as there was a remnant who were not cut off unto unbelief (Paul, Peter, James etc) same same refining process will happen again. I don't really see necessarily a competition between preterism and futurism. I see things from a n "is was and will be" perspective.
me too!
Hi kevinq,
:dsunny: :welcome: :girlheart: :friendstu:
I believe Jesus is yet coming back here to rule and reign on this earth, literally. So I guess that disqualifies me from the preterist campgrounds. But I find the perspective interesting and see double or multiple fulfillments often in scripture.
hi!
..like others I believe in double and multiple fulfillments or Bible prophecy.. and also like Sheila, a lot of was, is and will be.. :smile: I guess sorta man will build his empires (kingdoms) but only His Kingdom works!
specifically, I believe the six seals of Bk of Rev chapter 6 are pretorist, along with most of rev 12, and also rev 13:13(1945).. But Daniel's prophecies as both preterist and futurist.. (with Rev 7:1-3 as present! and 8:1 as semi imminent? or that is, not too terribly far off, then 12:16 w/ Lk 23:28,31 and 18:17)
:hiya:
I don't know what you would call me but I do think a lot of things have happened. I think the book of Revelation has mostly but not all have been fulfilled. I think a lot of things were fulfilled in 70AD that we may not even know about. From what I read most of the Bible was written to Israel except for Paul's writings. Some of Paul's writings were written to Israel/Jew as well, because Jesus said to go to Israel/Jew first.
That doesn't mean these things can't happen again. I do believe Jesus is coming back and the kingdom of God will be here on earth for a thousand years. That's just where I am at now.
CHB
Quote from: kevinq on April 25, 2015, 08:28:57 AM
Hello; I came to full preterism several years ago. It answered all questions concerning eschatology but did not resolve my issues with eternal punishment. I have always had a problem with God punishing a 70 year life forever.
Also, it did not fit with my concept of a loving God. I leaned toward annihilation for awhile but it seemed to me that the enemy won more battles than God. Did not seem right. Slowly I came to the point of universalism. I am now a Universalist/Preterist. Are there others?
Yes, I'm real close to that.
Let me see if I can find that article...........
This article should fit your view.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/heavenandearth.htm
Enjoy
I think preterism is a better fit for universalism. It sees us and the world as one through Christ and not as us against them. There is more freedom in believing that it is finished and that nothing else needs to be done as far as salvation is concerned. It puts us in that spiritual realm seated in the heavenly with Christ. No longer there being a difference between man and woman, slave and free.
More so with a preterist perspective, the gospel verses that are used to defend eternal torment in hell are seen for what they are. The Valley of Hinnom, had awful ramifications to the Jews, and was in the proximity to Jerusalem that would be the scene of carnage when the temple was destroyed.
But what of the return of Christ as spoken by Jesus himself as well as the angels and Apostles? This is one belief that seems to transcend history and I am not willing to disregard it. There will probably be a time when God says enough is enough.
In my opinion, how we see this topic is crucial to how we live our lives and apply the scripture to it. Wars are excepted and encouraged by those who think future events are predetermined as they work toward making them happen.
I have just finished reading Hank Hanegraaff's book "The Apocalypse Code" and will be reading "The Second Coming" by John MacArthur. I'm trying to keep and open mind. I am enjoying the study I have to say.
Steve,
I am of similar thoughts on "Preterism". If you find something out there that you recommend, let us know. I personally have a hard time reading John MacArthur. In the Tentmaker book department, I would recommend The Destruction of Jerusalum by George Peter Holford.
Tentmaker has done such a great job of making these resources available on line. Thank you Gary and everyone that has contributed. Thank you God for your hand in it all.
Pat
Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened.
Daniel is interpreted as events that happened in the second century BC,
while Revelation is interpreted as events that happened in the first century AD.
I like the view as well and Noted Jesus always spoke in PRESENT tense
James shared this Lighthouse library a while back and found this and its true in the sense I have been timid and that is not so good to be timid
the timid and unbelieving are outside the gate and CITY still ...
Paul spoke boldly as well and in present tense , because it seems our time is now ...... we had examples of those things that shortly come to pass and we have known them by the Spirit of truth
speaking with authority one thing about it knowledge comes and it comes to pass but Love always remains , because it was spoken in Love as warning and caring mercy and those with the Testimony of Jesus Christ do have the ''SPIRIT OF PROPHECY'' ALIVE IN them they will shortly come to pass because the Spirit is speaking in your ear in the darkness we proclaim on the rooftops ...
you warn , blow the trumpets for battle because you LOVE and Christ is in You and He is the same WORD OF GOD for all generations
Because mercy and truth and grace are of Him and You are His witnesses for this generation .. vile generation or not the sign is we are them Johah or Jonas (dove; Arabic: يونس Yūnus, Yūnis or يونان Yūnān
Spirit of the dove being gentle lighting upon us in Jesus peace , the SPIRIT OF ONENESS to gather into Christ If they refused Moses under those witnesses and without mercy
Would they listen to Jesus with mercy ? and if the Not spoken by the Son Himself and you being His witnesses and reject the law and prophets and Jesus and now you are his witness what else can be done ???? a sure judgment will come upon them as well as we have seen by examples on the times past in the Present time for us , we Speak NOW with the Truth as a Living Word , not some dead letter
A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.
http://www.lighthouselibrary.com/pdf/LANYON,%20WALTER%20C/FIRST%20PERSON,%20PRESENT%20TENSE%20%5BWalter%20C.%20Lanyon%5D.pdf
If we are not willing like Jonah was in His day and we see the sign given , what becomes of us in our Day than ?
repentance is is a key that unlocks many closed doors and hearts
But how can you repent if you don't know what is wrong ? and no not know God ?
I like the scripture that makes us examine oursleves and that is
ever learning and NEVER coming to the knowledge of the truth 2 Tim 3
Evil in the Last Days
...6For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins,
led on by various impulses,
7always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith....
Some other time some other age some other way etc ...
the Time is now to come out of sleep our salvation is nearer than when we first believed
I dont know if anyone here has an urgency in their hearts to proclaim the Gospel to everyone and any one , but there is a stirring going on that is as REAL as rain
and we know the rain is real when we are standing in the middle of a good hard rain ans have to rush to get in out of the weather
unless we are left out in the elements our own selves .
Just some thoughts to consider hopefully
Hi Pat and Rosered,
Thank you for the reply.
What prophesy is fulfilled by what event is confusing to me. It makes it easy when the Bible quotes its own prophecy as being fulfilled by an event. But even when the Bible explains scripture as being fulfilled, such as the Prophet Joel in Acts 2, people say only a portion is fulfilled. They would rather take the "blood, fire and smoke" literally than the "this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel".
When it comes down to it I am not very good in remembering what verse refers to what verse but I am also not willing to take other people's interpretation of prophesy concerning future event.
Isn't it great knowing that we are free not to know these things and that God loves surpasses knowledge?
Thanks again for the correspondence.
Steve
Quote from: rosered on May 15, 2015, 08:10:44 PM
If we are not willing like Jonah was in His day and we see the sign given , what becomes of us in our Day than ?
What God did in Jonah's day he will do again. Jonah was upset because God didn't make Nineveh pay for their sins,....sound familiar?.... but God saved them all, all one hundred and twenty thousand of them.
CHB
Quote from: CHB on May 18, 2015, 04:27:50 PM
Quote from: rosered on May 15, 2015, 08:10:44 PM
If we are not willing like Jonah was in His day and we see the sign given , what becomes of us in our Day than ?
What God did in Jonah's day he will do again. Jonah was upset because God didn't make Nineveh pay for their sins,....sound familiar?.... but God saved them all, all one hundred and twenty thousand of them.
CHB
Amen , CHB ! It is Gods loving will/desire that none perish !! this should be our own loving will /desire as well !!
When we look to JESUS CHRIST and lift him up , its the same as Lifting up your Cross , its the same
cause /cross ! LOVE EXPRESSED
All will be drawn to Him , it is the work of the Father ,
the one true ONLY God though the Son sent that makes everything dead ALIVE IN HIM
This sacrifice was holy ! the lamb slain from the foundation of the world .. as LOVE , and only love being the motive will be blessed of God
Even back in their day it was so
as a witness ,
the whole book is a witness of His testimony ! God will be all in All , because He is the only ONE WHO CAN DO IT
in the scriptures you think you have eternal life but , these testify of Jesus Christ , the LIVING WORD and sharp as a dividing SWORD , separating the living [ Christ alive ] from the dead [Adam ]
Adam cannot save himself or others , all in Adam die only in Christ will we Live
the Word in JONAHS MOUTH was the HOLY SPIRIT of truth .. SPEAKING TO THEM to Live and not to die and they heard!!
I appreciate your excellent observation !
God bless you with more of Him
Quote from: sdileo on May 18, 2015, 04:11:29 PM
Hi Pat and Rosered,
Thank you for the reply.
What prophesy is fulfilled by what event is confusing to me. It makes it easy when the Bible quotes its own prophecy as being fulfilled by an event. But even when the Bible explains scripture as being fulfilled, such as the Prophet Joel in Acts 2, people say only a portion is fulfilled. They would rather take the "blood, fire and smoke" literally than the "this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel".
When it comes down to it I am not very good in remembering what verse refers to what verse but I am also not willing to take other people's interpretation of prophesy concerning future event.
Isn't it great knowing that we are free not to know these things and that God loves surpasses knowledge?
Thanks again for the correspondence.
Steve
AMEN Steve !! Love is the overcoming the world
Knowledge ceases , because every last one of will know in the end , every knee will bow the knee and tongue confess JESUS CHRIST ,
but it is LOVE , that is the part of God that makes you HIS OWN possession and is rewarded , for me many years now have known partly it was Love . but now its fully i understand it is LOVE THAT SAVES US ALL
my father in law come sharing and asking about ,,, The valley of dry bones and this prophecy ,
this very morning and I shared my view , we can only SEE JESUS , WITH A VIEW ,, an understanding and until you LOOK TO JESUS for all the answers
you will be searching and searching and wear yourself out
LOVE is the motive and action expressed
Israel is Gods first born son [Exodus 4 ] freeing him from the WORLD / Egypt , but they all died in faith believing in a Messiah to save them
the bones are raised in Christ being that Body and breath in them that God gave Him making the bones of His bones and flesh of His flesh NEW
and died on the cross as the perfect sacrifice , they died together with Him to be raised up into the HOLY CITY AND as many who will come to Jesus Christ will also be saved
the two sticks of Judah and Israel is the CROSS OF JESUS CHRIST who died together with Him prophecy being in the fulness of times .
Ezek 37 "Son of man, take a stick of wood and write on it, 'Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with him.' Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, 'Belonging to Joseph (that is, to Ephraim) and all the Israelites associated with him.'
I SEE JESUS ALIVE AND LOVE BEING THE FORGIVENESS for all mankind in the WORD OF TRUTH BY THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH
I am a full preterist, partial Armian Calvinist myself. :Peace2:
Hmmm...I'm going to have to think about that one for awhile.
:cloud9: Well I'm really confused, because I thought a full preterist believed ALL was accomplished by 70ad. :dontknow:
Quote from: rosered on May 15, 2015, 08:10:44 PM
unless we are left out in the elements our own selves .
More to that then meets he eye.
:wave:
I was joking. I am actually a neo-heterodoxologistic heretic :o)
Quote from: ed on May 19, 2015, 08:13:19 PM
Quote from: rosered on May 15, 2015, 08:10:44 PM
unless we are left out in the elements our own selves .
More to that then meets he eye.
:wave:
Yes in deed , there sure is :Peace2:
Quote from: eaglesway on May 19, 2015, 08:18:59 PM
I was joking. I am actually a neo-heterodoxologistic heretic :o)
:cloud9: Ok, now THAT I can relate to.... :winkgrin:
That's too long and complicated a description for my resume. I'm just going to settle for happy heretic.
:cloud9: Yes, someone coined the term around here long ago, that we're all "hairy ticks", lol.....too funny. Most people outside the know look at us as if we are, for sure. :mock:
I think folks who put that on us think it's a badge of shame to be feared, but I think it's a badge of honor, not to mention something to be laughed at, because, regardless of the fact that we don't conform to church doctrine, it is the church that doesn't conform to the word of God.
:cloud9: No, they don't. God has a pattern. Pattern not followed. End of subject. :sigh:
When I first bumped into preterism, I studied through its various forms- saw some really beautiful stuff, as well as some things I don't believe.
I basicly oppose any hyper dispensational view pinned to dates other than the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, which was indeed a dispensational change from Israel and the law, to Jesus and the gospel of the kingdom, along with the outpouring of the Spirit, through which the tabernacle of living stones was born- a habitation of God in the spirit, the ecclesia of God, the body of Christ.
:cloud9: Yes, we can glean from ANY field thru the mind of Christ, and if thru the mind of Christ be lifted up in wisdom to great heights in the Spirit. I'm sure they have a piece of the pie, too.
Problem with most of mankind comes when they try to stay in that field and make it their new home/denomination. They're called the BEASTS of the FIELD for a reason, LOL.....
And I'm with you on the last paragraph, too. :thumbsup: The cross is the beginning AND the end, everything flows out from that. Blessings....
I am probably a pre-preterist. ;) I believe everything was finished "at the cross" referring to the events surrounding it. I see a recapitulation of the story of the cross in the OT all pointing to the cross, and a recapitulation after the cross all pointing back. So the destruction of Jerusalem and even the holocaust are shadows pointing back. Whatever future events happen will simply be shadows pointing back to the cross.
I am also a very Young Earth Creationist, believing that the earth is six days younger than traditional YECs; the first seven days occurring in timelessness and in one 'day' (Ge 2:4).
This isn't the place to get into details. I am still sorting through Universalism.
Mark 10;29,30 no-one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father,or children OR FIELDS..for me and the gospel
will fail to recieve a hundred times as much in this present age.
ALL THINGS ARE YOURS
I think labels like the ones mentioned in the original post are loaded words that can be interpreted all kinds of ways. If you want to compare Calvinism, Arminianism, and universalism, then I'm into universalism, but I'm not affiliated with any worldly organization, denomination, or church that claims to represent universalism. I think preterism is a misconception, and there's a lot more surprises in store for mankind that they're not expecting because many have decided God is just mythology now thanks to the atheist religion, Darwinism, programming all the school kids. I was one of them once, but I got enough information to change my mind. Some folks may never do that though.
Hi Kevinq,
I have little idea what you are speaking of....which means I will learn much from you.
Welcome.....I hope we get to share many thoughts, here. :welcome:
I've come to full preterism by way of UR, not to say I'm in strict agreement with any doctrines or denominations formed by them but they are about the closest labels I know of that directly explain my beliefs.
As with the eternal torment and hell language, there seems to be a lot of misunderstood or misinterpreted concepts with the prophecies.
For those who want to know more about preterism in general, "The Parousia" by J. Stuart Russell is a good starting point. I don't agree with all of his assertions but he makes a very good case for the 70 AD timeframe. He had some remarkable views and exhaustive research considering this book is from the 1870s.
The book can be found for free online and there's an overview of the book on tentmaker here (which may be all you need as the book itself is 600+ pages): http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/parousia_apocalypse_russell.html
Quote from: Bannister on June 30, 2015, 10:15:49 PM
I've come to full preterism by way of UR, not to say I'm in strict agreement with any doctrines or denominations formed by them but they are about the closest labels I know of that directly explain my beliefs.
As with the eternal torment and hell language, there seems to be a lot of misunderstood or misinterpreted concepts with the prophecies.
For those who want to know more about preterism in general, "The Parousia" by J. Stuart Russell is a good starting point. I don't agree with all of his assertions but he makes a very good case for the 70 AD timeframe. He had some remarkable views and exhaustive research considering this book is from the 1870s.
The book can be found for free online and there's an overview of the book on tentmaker here (which may be all you need as the book itself is 600+ pages): http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/parousia_apocalypse_russell.html
Preterism is a particular systematic theology, which stands on its own apart from the gospel. I totally disagree with the dispensational view of full preterism, but I am totally UR, so preterism is not necessary to believing in UR, and altho we have preterists on the site, and by some definitions I could be considered a partial preterist, the site is here to promote UR, not preterism.
And, I am a totally lost Lutheran, who realizes I have lots to learn from you all. Never heard of most of these terms being thrown about.
:dunno2:
Mostly just theological flotsam and jetsum anyway 😊