Hi, obviously I am brand new here. I don't know who to talk to and am not sure about my beliefs right now, but I'm hoping someone here can help me. This is a REALLY long post, so I'm sorry if it's so long. I just have a tremendous amount on my mind. I feel like I am literally in my own mental prison or state of hell. I really don't understand how more traditional Christians can stand to live with their beliefs if they are being genuine.
I just converted to Christianity last April and got baptized in water on May 8. I'm 34 and never grew up going to church or anything. Both of my parents were atheists growing up and pretty-much dismissed any questions I had about God as about equal to the tooth fairy.
The Lord has done so much in my life though, calling me to Him over and over again, and I finally decided last April that I want to devote the rest of my life to serving Him. I feel like I actually wasted so much of my life beforehand.
Let me tell you about how I came to this point. When I was a teenager I became severely depressed. I was an atheist and believed their was no point to living. I was put under a lot of pressure to achieve academically and got into Cornell University. However, I was feeling really burdened by the fact that humans were hurting the planet and honestly felt like the world would be a better place without me. I had a bad break-up, was bulimic, a cutter, all sorts of things. I was just wallowing in guilt and was terrified that my grades would go down and I'd be a disappointment to everyone. So I ended up having a very serious suicide attempt and would have actually died if the Lord didn't directly intervene.
It wasn't a cry for help - I really thought I was going to die. I passed out once but then woke up, frustrated that I wasn't dead yet. Then the Lord sent me a very short vision - about a second long - showing me a picture of my future self with my future husband and our children. I could only see us from the back, as if the Lord didn't want to reveal too much to me. I didn't know who it was from, and it was over before I knew it. But I knew that it was true, and I knew that whoever sent it TRULY loved me, understood exactly why I was doing what I was doing, deeply understood every worry and pain I had encountered, didn't condemn me for anything, and wanted me to be happy. I had a profound sense that I was given a choice. I could die if I wanted to but if I chose to live, I had a wonderful loving future ahead of me.
I didn't have to think about it. I was absolutely horrified with what I was doing and my adrenaline kicked in full blast. Fortunately I was living in the dorms and after passing out a second time and waking up again, I was able to call for help and get to safety. I had no physical lasting harm from the experience, although I had to be in the mental ward for 2 1/2 weeks afterwards.
I know you'll probably all think I'm crazy but the experience was amazing because I didn't believe in God, in heaven or hell, in any afterlife at all, or in any force beyond what we could physically experience. I was also certainly not thinking about having kids. And yet I KNEW that this was real and that someone really knew me intimately and loved me. I didn't tell anyone about the vision for many years. I figure even now people may understandably discredit it because I was not in a sound mental state when it happened, but I know that it is true and that it saved my life.
After the suicide attempt, everyone in my family was so disappointed in me for doing what I had done. It was really awful. I dropped out of college. I was just wallowing in guilt for a while, but I also knew that I made a decision to live, and living in a suicidal state is not living. Therefore I stopped all self-destructive behaviors, met my husband, and now we've been married 11 years and have three kids. I also transferred to another college and finally finished school. I'm a teacher now.
Anyway, fast forward....The Lord really kept calling me toward Him and pointing me to Jesus and the Bible. There were so many instances where I felt it just couldn't be a coincidence. At one point, I read the four gospel books but then rejected them because I thought it would be too hard to live a holy Christian life and I didn't want to believe in hell.
After being married a few years I read a whole bunch of near death stories, and they made it seem like we create our own heaven or hell and we move toward heaven by following what Jesus taught and we move toward hell by being selfish. I think some of them said that all people will eventually be saved. It all made sense to me, but it wasn't what mainstream Christians believe, so I never went to church. I prayed occasionally but was not reborn. Although they made me feel less afraid of death, and they encouraged me to be more loving toward others, I really didn't change my life very significantly.
That was about eight years ago, and during those years, I realized that I was still a slave to sin. It wasn't like I was doing anything awful, but I was selfish with money, I had various idols that I kept thinking I'd find fulfilling but realized eventually that they left me feeling empty, I was very vain, etc.
I kept feeling this nagging, or pulling, telling me that there are only two ways to live - live like Christ, who laid down His life for others, or live for myself. I wasn't reading the Bible at all during these years, but I ended up literally stumbling across the word of God and realizing how true they are, and I finally decided to become a Christian, in spite of all those years of resisting it because of my feelings regarding hell.
So since becoming a Christian, I was curious as to why some of the NDE's talked about universal salvation and how they differed from what the Bible said, and I came across some testimonies that are just beyond terrifying, like Mary Baxter's books and Angelica Zambrano and Howard Pittman. I know you all probably think I'm just so gullible but I just can't let go of some of the fear that these have generated within me. I don't believe that being a Christian means just believing, or professing His name. I believe that it means calling upon Him to sanctify us throughout our lives and give us the strength to turn away from sin and live holy lives. I have made so many changes in my life already, and some of them are truly quite freeing.
However those testimonies scared the living daylights out of me. Now I don't know what to believe. And not only that, they warn us not to fall for false prophets that "water down" the word of God, saying that preachers who do that all end up in hell. They say that God is not present in churches that preach universalism. They make it seem that the vast majority of people today are going to hell, since nonbelievers are in hell, and most of today's Christians are lukewarm, so they go to hell too. They also talk a lot about spiritual warfare and how the demons are working so hard to influence us to reject Biblical truths and do evil things. I ended up contacting some fundamentalist Christians who have a blog about how to serve the Lord and I asked them a whole bunch of questions. I was sooo scared! They were very patient with me and wrote to me for quite a while.
Now, I have made all sorts of changes in my life and have stopped idolizing a lot of things and enjoy praying to God, whom I know hears me and has given me nothing but a feeling of pure love and kindness whenever I pray. However, my husband is a nonbeliever, and my children are young and I don't know if they will be converted like me or not. I feel literally sick with fear for these people, and I know this is pulling me away from God. I know you would probably all agree that even the wickedest people on earth would never deserve eternal torment, or even annihilation after a painful death in hell. I wouldn't want Hitler to suffer forever, and I can't understand how anyone can feel at peace and praise the Lord if they believe He is cruel enough to cut any of His creation off from Him forever.
But there are so many warnings in scripture that make me afraid. I am having trouble focusing at work and am just so anxious all the time these days. I am so worried for my parents and just about everyone in my extended family as well.
I'm sure many of the scriptures are discussed on this forum but I haven't had time to look at them all. I wonder what happens to those who miss the narrow door, and Jesus warned us to fear the One who can destroy both body and soul in hell. I'm afraid He's going to say, "I never knew you," to anyone I care about. What about the unforgivable sin? What about the verses in Revelation about the wicked being thrown into the lake of fire? How do you reconcile the contradictory verses in scripture? What about all the warnings against falling away and the talk about how the one who perseveres to the end will be rewarded?
I was at the point where I was just going to accept the fact that our all-powerful loving God would allow most people alive today to go to hell and try to be happy about the fact that maybe I'd be one of the few who end up on the right side of the divide. I was thinking that, maybe heaven will be THAT good that even if my kids don't make it, I could still, possibly, be happy? and then I'd just tremble with fear again because I just know that is not true at all.
I finally more recently started to really doubt the whole premise of traditional Christianity when I started discussing parenting issues. I have some really strong beliefs about parenting. These fundamentalist Christians that I was communicating with really believe in spanking their kids (and some use a literal rod), and I'm one of those more extreme moms who does baby-wearing, co-sleeping, and tandem nursing. I really don't thing spanking is what Jesus would have wanted us to do. And I thought some more about how I don't want my children to obey me because they are so afraid of what I'll do to them if they don't obey. I want them to obey me because they love me so much and agree with my viewpoints.
Well, wouldn't God want the same things? Wouldn't God be the ultimate good parent, who has enough love and power to save even the worst of sinners? Isn't there inherent value in turning away from sin, in not hurting one another, in being kind to the poor, in serving one another? Wouldn't He want us to love Him, not out of tremendous fear, but because we truly love all the good that He creates and represents?
Another Christian I have spoken to on the phone talks about preelection and how God creates some people for His mercy and some people for His wrath. She says that as sad as it is, she is not in the position to judge God as He can do whatever He wants to do. I just don't think I could stand to live with believing that.
Now I'm doubting everything all over again, but then I remember how some of the testimonies I read said that satan will keep trying to pull us off the narrow path and we must persevere in times of trial. Then I become overcome with fear again.
This is a horrible way to live!!! I keep reading more and more opinions about the Bible because when I read it myself, I just find contradiction after contradiction. When I pray and ask God, in my head (just the thoughts that come to mind) He keeps telling me not to follow other people but to just read the Bible. But the Bible makes no sense to me these days!! And then I feel bad for become so overcome with curiosity that I am not doing what God tells me I should do.
In my thoughts when I pray, the Lord tells me that I don't need to understand it all. I should just love Him and trust Him and obey Him. But this is so hard for me! I don't want anyone I love to suffer in hell, and there are so many people who have had the most horrifying visions of it.
If I could truly feel in my heart that hell is absolutely NOT eternal, I think I could finally have some peace. I do believe that hell and pain are real because I can see it in people's lives today. Look at how many people around today are living in sin and making themselves more and more miserable all the time. I do see that there are natural consequences for sin, but I would hope that God has given us all a way out through Jesus.
Ugh, and then I think about how, in spite of the fact that we all WANT to believe that God is all-loving toward everyone, He does allow suffering and pain. Therefore I'd be deluded to think that He only allows goodness and joy because evil and suffering and pain are real forces in the world today. If He allows it in the physical world, wouldn't He allow it in the spiritual world?
I don't know who to talk to, besides God, whom I vent to, but other than that, I don't know anyone who is nearly as concerned or interested as I am. I read on one website about how someone wrote in about having a nervous breakdown over the concept of eternal hell, and the responder really had no compassion for him. He said that this person must have just not have been a true Christian but rather must have been continuing to live in sin and that was the only reason he was so upset about it all. But I don't understand how the concept of eternal hell, if one truly believes it, wouldn't make any person lose his mind when you look around at all the nonbelievers out there.
I know I need to call on the Lord to bring me the peace and joy and freedom that He is said to bring. I just know that I won't be able to find it if I continue to believe in either eternal hell or annihilism. But then I just feel plagued by those verses in scripture that imply those things and I wonder if I am damning myself by "watering down" the word of God.
Thank you so much for taking the time to read this lengthy rant. I hope you don't think I'm acting like a lunatic. I love Jesus and want to serve Him and know Him, and I want to love others as He loves us. I want to be a light to others in this life, not judgmental, not condemning, just a light, leading by example to them to guide them to the truth and hopefully set them free as well. But if I'm overcome with fear, then I probably will come across as a fanatic who will only turn people further away from Him.
Anything you have to say would be so greatly appreciated. Thank you so much!
Welcome Michelle, and balm to your soul.
This is one of the very main reasons we are here. You'll get some good input and support.
Hi Michelle
Awesome testimony !
Just trust in the Holy Spirits prompting , the Holy Spirit promises to teach us and correct us when seeking the Lord .
His disciples /students , same as yesterday today and tomorrow , when given an ear to hear what the Spirit is saying .
John 14 ...25All this I have spoken to you while I am still with you.
26But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have told you.
27 Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled; do not be afraid....
Something that helped also was reading Job , in Job 20 when reading what his friends spoke about God was wrong and we can learn from those examples as to not the way God is at all
Job spoke what was right it says and had to pray for his "friends " and God restored Job double for what he suffered and lost Job 42
I have to say reading the book of Job helped when nothing else could in a time of troubles such as you are having now , I also have and do , Love His WORD
May GOD help in our hour of need
ps ...waiting on the Lord for an answer , Just ask Him , in the right time and way He does answer .
Ask, Seek, Knock
(Matthew 7:7-12)
5Then Jesus said to them, "Suppose one of you goes to his friend at midnight and says, 'Friend, lend me three loaves of bread, 6because a friend of mine has come to me on a journey, and I have nothing to set before him.'
7And the one inside answers, 'Do not bother me. My door is already shut and my children are with me in bed. I cannot get up to give you anything.'
8I tell you, even though he will not get up to provide for him because of his friendship, yet because of the man's persistence, he will get up and give him as much as he needs.
9So I tell you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
11What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead?
12Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion?
13So if you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"
Hi Michelle. There is a book, on Amazon and Kindle called, "Gods Sacred Secret" by Darrell Scott
Darrell is almost 70 years old and was a pastor in a very legalistic hell preaching denomination from when he was in his twenties. He shared the salvation of all with me when I was a young minister in my early twenties.
Darrell is the father of Rachel Scott who was martyred at Columbine High School in Colorado years back, and has been sharing the "Rachel's Challenge" program in high schools and churches all over the US and the world.
He deals, in excellent fashion i think, with all the questions you presented in your post.
I am not sure what the book costs, if you cannot afford it send me a PM and I will send you a copy of it because I have a few.
Hello Michelle,
There is so much to be said on the subject, that it is very hard to condense enough to answer all of the concerns in your moving post. My starting point and central focus, as in all things, would be the person of Jesus Christ, who is the very demonstration of the divine Father. If we want to see how God treats people, and will always treat people, we see that Life embodied in the true Word, the Only Begotten.
When Jesus was being taunted upon the cross, did He say "Father, avenge me, and send these hypocrites and sinners to hell once they die"? If so, we can have every confidence that the Father shall do so. But if He said "Father forgive them, they know not what they do." then we likewise can have every confidence that the Father shall rather do that.
Christ did many things, too many to write down in a book as the fourth gospel testifies. Yet one thing He always did was demonstrate the divine and perfect heart of the Father, which is the essense of His being, Love. Now we do see Him rebuke the Pharisees at times, with words of correction, but we also see how He prayed their forgiveness while they were in the act of murdering Him!
We see Him embrace the children, comfort the widow and restore her son to her, bless the broken hearted, deliver the possessed, heal the sick, teach His disciples, make atonement for mankind, and ascend above all things. This is our Lord and Savior - the one who we follow, whose name we are called by, and whose Spirit dwells in us powerfully. As He is, so shall we be. We are learning of the Father through Him, and I tell you now - the Spirit within me has taught me NOTHING of vengeance, unforgiveness, cruelty, or torment of my enemies. If such things are to be, we are ALL being taught amiss by the Spirit within! But no - rather He is teaching us of Love, Hope, Peace, and all of the fruit of the Spirit. And the concept of endless torment can in NO WAY be a demonstration of ANY of the fruit of the Spirit!
God bless you in Christ, Michelle. You are clearly following Christ. I encourage you to look to Him as the standard, as the expression of EVERY reality of God. You will find the truth of all things in that True Word, that Man, That perfect image of the Almighty God. When your eyes upon who that One is, you can never be ultimately defeated by fear and doubt, even though the battle rages about you now, for there is a power of Love in that One that will cast out all fear, and demonstrate the Love and faithfulness of God to the uttermost. Look to Him, and see the Ultimate, Infinite, Undeniable Salvation of God - for He Himself IS that salvation!
Quote from: jabcat on September 10, 2016, 02:05:25 AM
Welcome Michelle, and balm to your soul.
This is one of the very main reasons we are here. You'll get some good input and support.
:iagree:
Hello Michelle,
Rest assured that God has brought you here for a reason. I know He did me. I'm pretty sure that everyone who has read your post has you in their prayers.
Tentmaker has some unbelievable resources. If I may suggest, on the Tentmaker home page there is a list of links. If you go to the 'Quick Find' link, you will find something about almost anything you have questions about. For you, I might suggest from the list:
Bible Threatenings Explained. You will find some excellent points of view that you probably haven't heard in the mainstream churches regarding many of the concerns you addressed in your post.
Also, there are numerous videos that have been put together by the Tentmaker group if you prefer that medium.
I'm also glad that you posted, because it reminded me that I have been complacent in giving thanks for this website:
Thank you Lord for Gary and Michelle for building this site; for all of those working to keep it running; for those who administer and moderate, and for all those members who contribute in their own way.
Michelle, the love of Christ reveals itself in your unselfish concern for others. How much more you will be able to share that love when you have the incredible peace that accompanies the realization of the truth of God's great plan for all of His creation.
Pat
I do not agree hat you cannot judge God.
Tbh God pisses me off.
I've always believed in God (but must admit never so sure about Jesus) but find God to be as evil as God is supposed to be kind.
God indeed makes me as bitter twisted and angry as any man has ever done.
Mainly because many Christians say look to Jesus/God for the answer and he will answer but in nearly 50 years not a diddly squat of an answer have I had.
I doubt there has been a day in my life 've not chatted to God or Jesus (more God though). There pretty damn deaf if you ask me.
Thank you so much for your responses. I will definitely look into some of the resources you showed me, and I appreciate some of the scripture you have shared with me.
I am glad to have joined a group of people who are seeking the truth as I am and are just as unsettled as I am with some of the mean stream doctrine out there. I'm already feeling a bit better today and am looking forward to learning more about some of the biblical truths you are all talking about.
Welcome, Michelle. You have doubts and are scared, humans often have doubts and get scared. I expect they are more doubting and scared the more daunting and serious the subject matter. And the topic of Hell is very serious and daunting subject matter.
But I don't think that the God you describe that came to you when you tried to commit suicide sounds like the sort of God who actually wants to see you destroyed and suffering. And the Bible says that God is impartial, He doesn't see you more differently or more worthy of saving than other people.
The Bible is a confusing book that says a lot of things, that is why I believe that the argument for Christ-Led Universalism should begin with passages like our favourites, 'This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.' (1 Timothy 2:3-4)'For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.' (1 Timothy 4:10)
Passages like this that people have to twist away from their clear meaning to make them say that in fact in it not of God to save all those He has made.
You're worried about the position of the 'official' church, I understand that remember that the Bible records Jesus as saying that, 'If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.' (John 15;19)
Now how John discusses the concept of 'the world' in his writings can be a little confusing, but this part seems rather clear. So does the concept of Hell sound like a product of God or a product of the world? Obviously if you decide it is a product of God than it is the Truth and you must accept it. However, if you think it is of the world than the 'official' church has anchored its self to the world instead of Jesus its true and proper head and then you should hardly be surprised that it rebels strongly against those who deny it's claims.
You have a multitude of questions in your post but I must follow the other posters in directing you to seek answers elsewhere on the site even though you stated you didn't know where to start. The try to answer them all here would simply create a huge mess of confusion when also trying to answer many of your other points and questions.
Dear Michelle,
First of all, so glad you are here. I believe there are no coincidences.
I, like you, was afraid of contradicting the scriptures. Unlike you, I did grow up in church, and went to Catholic School, and knew of Hell before I can remember.
I am no longer Catholic, but still a big church goer. I try to live out my Christian walk, with the Lord, everyday. I am so in awe of a HUGE and gracious God that we serve.
My conversion to being a Christian Universalist was interesting. A friend introduced me to the concept, fairly recently. I had never heard of such a thing before. All my Christian contacts had all believed in Hell.
My friend would talk to me about it, as I showed interest, and would answer my questions and point me to Bible verses.
I began to explore the Bible, with my new frame of mind, and found that there were passages in the Bible that were being 'swept under the rug'.
Some of the ones that stood out in my mind were the following:
Romans 11: 30Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, 31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you. 32For God has consigned all men to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all.
1 Corinthians 15:20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.
24Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For "God has put everything under His feet."b Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him. 28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.
Romans 14:11 - For the Scriptures say, "'As surely as I live,' says the LORD, every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will confess and give praise to God.'"
Romans 8:38 says: ...37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord....
But the main thing that convinces me of UR, is that God is Love and He promises over and over again that He will never forsake anyone of us. The lost coin; the lost sheep; the prodical son.....God wants us to all return to Him.
In my own searching, this was the passage that was the strongest to me.
1 Corinthians 13Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
13 If with the tongues of men and of messengers I speak, and have not love, I have become brass sounding, or a cymbal tinkling;
2 and if I have prophecy, and know all the secrets, and all the knowledge, and if I have all the faith, so as to remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing;
3 and if I give away to feed others all my goods, and if I give up my body that I may be burned, and have not love, I am profited nothing.
4 The love is long-suffering, it is kind, the love doth not envy, the love doth not vaunt itself, is not puffed up,
5 doth not act unseemly, doth not seek its own things, is not provoked, doth not impute evil,
6 rejoiceth not over the unrighteousness, and rejoiceth with the truth;
7 all things it beareth, all it believeth, all it hopeth, all it endureth.
8 The love doth never fail; and whether [there be] prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless;
9 for in part we know, and in part we prophecy;
10 and when that which is perfect may come, then that which [is] in part shall become useless.
11 When I was a babe, as a babe I was speaking, as a babe I was thinking, as a babe I was reasoning, and when I have become a man, I have made useless the things of the babe;
12 for we see now through a mirror obscurely, and then face to face; now I know in part, and then I shall fully know, as also I was known;
13 and now there doth remain faith, hope, love -- these three; and the greatest of these [is] love.
There it is....in 3 words.....Love never fails.
How could God create all these people to know they would be exiled to Hell forever? Where is the victory for Jesus in the fact that the devil has possession of those God created?
How could a God who promised us that He would always be with us and never forsake us ever stop loving us, until we are back home, with Him?
So, Michelle, I hope this was a bit helpful for you.
May your journey be a joyous one and full of God's peace, despite the storms.
LOVE NEVER FAILS.
D. :cloud9:
Quote from: chester-blowfold on September 10, 2016, 12:47:53 PM
I do not agree hat you cannot judge God.
Tbh God pisses me off.
I've always believed in God (but must admit never so sure about Jesus) but find God to be as evil as God is supposed to be kind.
God indeed makes me as bitter twisted and angry as any man has ever done.
Mainly because many Christians say look to Jesus/God for the answer and he will answer but in nearly 50 years not a diddly squat of an answer have I had.
I doubt there has been a day in my life 've not chatted to God or Jesus (more God though). There pretty damn deaf if you ask me.
Hi Chester.
I want to share with you, that though I prayed to God from before I can remember, it wasn't until I was about 55 years old that I had consciously realized that God actually speaks to me.
I was in a counseling group for people who come from abusive backgrounds. It is called the Wildflowers. They use theophostic prayer, to ask God into their painful memories, and to show us the truth, rather than the lies we had learned to live with. It was while I was involved with the group, and stumbling through this method of praying, that I finally learned to hear God's voice.
I still am unsure often, but there are times it is very clear.....and it keeps getting better. It is especially hard, I think, for people who lived with many lies throughout their life, and came to believe them and use them as a foundation for their decisions, etc.
I suggest to look up theophostic prayer and try to utilize it. Please don't give up. It is never too late. You will find when you do learn to hear God's voice, that you heard it other times in your life, and did not recognize it. At least, that is what I discovered. The Holy Spirit will be with you, every step of the way.
http://www.theophostic.com
And, another suggestion, is to be still and listen. I am rarely still, though I am learning to be so more day by day. Perhaps that is another reason it took me soooooooo long.
I will pray for you. Blessings on your journey.
D.
Chester, you can trust Jesus. He died on that cross and rose again. He is sympathetic and remember that fear doesn't last forever, joy comes in the morning. It's a bit of a work to trust Jesus, I've also been in the desert sometimes. But if you manage to love God and other people, and trust in Jesus, you will be fine.
Quote from: anti_nietzsche on September 10, 2016, 08:11:13 PM
Chester, you can trust Jesus. He died on that cross and rose again. He is sympathetic and remember that fear doesn't last forever, joy comes in the morning. It's a bit of a work to trust Jesus, I've also been in the desert sometimes. But if you manage to love God and other people, and trust in Jesus, you will be fine.
Amen to it all. And we all struggle and have doubts, etc.
Quote from: chester-blowfold on September 10, 2016, 12:47:53 PM
I do not agree hat you cannot judge God.
Tbh God pisses me off.
I've always believed in God (but must admit never so sure about Jesus) but find God to be as evil as God is supposed to be kind.
God indeed makes me as bitter twisted and angry as any man has ever done.
Mainly because many Christians say look to Jesus/God for the answer and he will answer but in nearly 50 years not a diddly squat of an answer have I had.
I doubt there has been a day in my life 've not chatted to God or Jesus (more God though). There pretty damn deaf if you ask me.
Ask for faith and belief. He gives it as a gift. God is accessed through His Son, the crucified and risen Jesus Christ. The Messiah and Savior. Jesus said He was the way to the Father. Faith and trust in Him creates a new heart, mind, brings redemption and a new birth. A new person inside that can approach God in grace. The following scriptures are hard sayings that most probably don't like. Also they could be picked to death, but that's not the point and I hope it will be seen that doing so IN THIS CONTEXT (maybe a new thread if need be) won't help regarding
encouraging faith in Jesus. And showing that without Him we can do nothing. The point being, that God wants our trust and obedience, primarily, that we believe in and cling to His Son. IMO, that's where our righteousness comes from; looking to HIM and submitting to Him,
claiming HIS righteousness as our sufficiency rather than any of our own "righteousness" (which is filthy rags). It's about trust and relationship, His works in us not our fleshly attempts to attain. All that said, the scriptures say this, so there's a point in them to be made - we need to be in right standing before Him, through His Son, which creates the relationship - friend to Friend;
We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will. Jn 9:31
The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears them; he delivers them from all their troubles. Ps. 34:17
For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil." I Peter 3:12
The LORD is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayer of the righteous. Proverbs 15:29
Place ANY faith we have been given (substance of things hoped for) in Jesus as Savior. Ask Him to save, forgive, renew. Then go from there.
Thank you for your replies peeps. I won't give and haven't as if I had I wouldn't be here chatting to you good people.
Jabcat, the first one is interesting as I thought God loved sinners but hated the sin?
Quote from: chester-blowfold on September 11, 2016, 02:20:08 AM
Thank you for your replies peeps. I won't give and haven't as if I had I wouldn't be here chatting to you good people.
Jabcat, the first one is interesting as I thought God loved sinners but hated the sin?
The best I can make of that is, "God so loved the world (everyone) that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish.." However, not all believe in Him yet, have not reconciled back to God, so the relationship of spiritual family is not yet established. There's an estrangement, thus a barrier to familial closeness. That's why Jesus is the way to the Father. He is the door, whereby spiritually reborn believers can "approach the throne of grace boldly". So I don't see any of those verses saying God doesn't love the sinner (in this context, those that don't as yet know Him [because we all sin]), but rather the all-important relationship hasn't been established. Not indwelt by the Holy Spirit, etc.
:thumbsup: True !!AMEN!
Those that call upon the name of Lord shall be saved , they must seek , knock and ask !
made me think of Romans 10
8But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth, and in your heart."d That is, the word of faith which we proclaim,
9that if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him out from the dead, you will be saved.
10For in the heart is belief unto righteousness, and in the mouth is confession unto salvation.
11For the Scripture says, "Everyone believing on Him will not be put to shame."
12For there is no difference between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord of all is rich toward all those calling Him,
13for, "Whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord will be saved."
14How then shall they call on Him whom they have not believed?
And how shall they believe on Him of whom they have not heard?
And how shall they hear apart from preaching?
15And how shall they preach unless they are sent?
As it has been written: "How beautiful are the feet of those proclaiming good news of good things!" :HeartThrob:
16But not all heeded the good news.
For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?"
17So faith is from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
Michelle--
I wish I had longer time to write but I want to tell you that--
I was where you are now, less than a year ago. A very similar story too.
I now believe 100% in the salvation of all and the peace and love that comes with that tells me that this is from God. Plus scripture properly translated plus prayer plus the fruit of this belief!
Also, I am a gentle parent. Look up L R Knost --- she has a book called Jesus the Gentle Parent and also has a blog and a Facebook page. The rod was used to guide sheep not beat them.
If I could give you some more advice--stop talking to other Christians for a bit. Stop asking them what you should do or believe. Ask God. Pray to Him and He will show you the truth. I became the closest to God and gained the most understanding when I tuned them out and tuned Him in.
Reading the bible is good, but look up the concordant literal and youngs literal translation (both are available in their entirety online). Both are literal translations and hell is nowhere to be found in either.
Love casts out fear. If you are fearful, let God who is Love cast out your fears and free you from this.
I love our fellow Christians (and all of humanity) but they most certainly are wrong about some things (but who isn't--no one is perfect but God alone).
Sending you love and prayers. And the peace of the love of God, which surpasses all understanding.
Thank you all so much! I have quite a bit of reading to do now, and I'm actually a little overwhelmed but really looking forward to coming out of this mental pit I've been in. I feel like there's a light at the end of the tunnel!
I will definitely look into some of the articles and resources you have sent me. I came across an interesting concept about the Second Death and figured it makes more sense to start another thread about it.
Thank you all again so much!
Also, yes, every experience I've had where I felt that God communicated with me, He came across as absolutely loving and not condemning at all. In fact, when I had my suicide attempt, I had the sense that it didn't matter in the slightest what I believed or how sinful I was. He just loved me and wished the best for me and wanted me to stop hurting.
But those other teachings and visions that I encountered more recently just horrified me and it made me doubt everything I had believed for so long. I thought maybe I had dodged a horrible bullet by just so happening to respond to Him in the right way. I thought maybe He didn't warn me but hoped I'd use my free will to make the right choice, and I was lucky enough to make those right choices because if I hadn't responded to His love the way He wanted, I would have been cut off forever. I was just horrified and still struggling with some doubts but I'm on my way up.
I also saw in Jeremiah 24:25 -40 a whole section about people prophesying from their dreams and spreading false teachings that contradict His word. I was so worried that some of the testimonies I read could be true, even though so many are so contradictory. Some people who have NDE's say that everyone will ultimately be saved, and others say the opposite. Some show hell as fire and brimstone, some show "hell" as a place where ashamed souls turn away from the light out of their own choosing. I couldn't understand why all these stories would be so contradictory and yet so believable anyway. I am so glad the Lord is leading me to certain verses in scripture that are pointing me in the right direction.