Hello, everyone! As you can tell from my title, I am new. I am not just new to the forum; I am new to Christian Universalism. The prospect of it is difficult to accept and exciting all in one. See I spent the last 15 years of my life as an Evangelical/ Pentecostal mainstreamer. I studied to be a minister/missionary and spent much time on the mission field. I have never fit the mainstream mold. Granted I always bought into the hell-fire-brimstone doctrine but my personality and points of view regarding missions and 'sinners' never matched up, especially on the mission field. I had a heart and passion to tell others about God! I just couldn't understand how the missionaries I worked with good be so into evangelism when actually ministering, BUT outside of actually ministry just wanted to hang in their little American groups and blow off the nationals. I went to the field to befriend nationals and not just the 'Christians' one. I was sort of an outcast. I was later sort of 'black-listed' when the missionary I worked under while in Central America informed the youth pastor of another church that he should keep an I on me during an upcoming missions' trip. I was painted out to be a 'lone star' looking for all the glory for myself. That was never the case! I bought their lie about myself because their were the 'professionals.' God must be showing them something.
Recently I've been questioning it all, because I can't understand how the very people who claim to worship Christ seem to find it acceptable to participate in a war that is killing millions of "terrorists." I had telling people these very things for years and could never see eye-to-eye with anyone. They just didn't get the logic! Also, a close relative who doesn't believe in Jesus constantly raises the typical "hell" questions that come up! Until recently I didn't even realize that there is a group of Christians who don't believe in Hell.
I do have other major issues that I have not reconciled yet and have not heard anyone address. How as Christian Universalists does someone reconcile the war-mongering God of the OT with the loving one of the NT? I've heard some say that there two different covenants, BUT that does not gel with God being the same yesterday and today! I would really like to hear how this is understood!
Also how is the issue of sin reconciled with the messege? I've heard some say one is free to live as one chooses. Jesus still called certain actions sin. He did tell the woman to "go and sin no more." I can't believe that with Christian Univeralism all activities and pleasures are free to us and Christ has given a us a 'sin freely' card!?!?
I apologize for such a long post! I look forward to the resonses and to learning more on my journey to a truer relationship with Jesus Christ!!
"But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul." (Deut. 4:29)
Hi Moony :laughing7:
QuoteThe prospect of it is difficult to accept and exciting all in one.
QuoteUntil recently I didn't even realize that there is a group of Christians who don't believe in Hell.
Probably that's because usually we aren't called Christians but heretics....
Did you find the many book and articles on the main TentMaker site? (and other sites)
There is a lot to learn from it if you want to understand what the UR claims are based on.
At least I learned a lot from it. I was a Googling atheist that found this site with the beautiful smilies.
Heaven seems to be even more beautiful so I became part of the furniture around here.
Hope to read from you soon.
An outcast, black-listed, a lone star.
Welcome to the club.
welcome Crescent Moon , :icon_flower:
QuoteI do have other major issues that I have not reconciled yet and have not heard anyone address. How as Christian Universalists does someone reconcile the war-mongering God of the OT with the loving one of the NT? I've heard some say that there two different covenants, BUT that does not gel with God being the same yesterday and today! I would really like to hear how this is understood!
Thats a great question !!!
Seems the literal or letter of the Law was percieved that way in the OT IT KILLS
where as in the NT we are given spiritual birth and new eyes heart and are new creatures in Christ , knowing the love of God :HeartThrob:
:cloud9: Welcome to the Tent.........thanks for sharing your testimony........ :thumbsup:
Thank you for the warm welcome! I came across this website yesterday & spent all day reading. Although the concept is unfamiliar, it fits with God as I have experienced Him. I am looking forward to discussing many topics to come as I grow on my 'new' walk.
May God bless you all!
Hi crescent moon,
I love your user name. :icon_flower:
The 'free pass to sin' thing...
No, it's more like the love that He puts in your heart...
and then the two commands "love God with all of your heart, love your neighbor as yourself"
if you are loving God and loving your neighbor then you are on the path to where sin loses it's grip. It's a daily walk. The more you move into Him... the more you seek and crave what is of LOVE. Not fake, phony imitation love,... but the REAL DEAL. We are under grace, yes most definitely. But there is a false notion that because we are under grace that we are just out there sinning it up and loving it!! woo hoo!! no, not at all! Becauses sin leads to death. The more we hold God's hand so to speak, the more that fact becomes a reality. Whatever is NOT LOVE is basically leading to death, destruction. Sin isn't this great thing anymore. It's ugly.
and the more love blossoms in your heart, the more you just... I don't know move into Him and you kind of decrease, your selfishness etc. I don't really focus on sin, to be honest. I see it more as love and non-love. The love that I know He has for ALL of His creation, ALL humans, ALL EVERYTHING... the more that picture of His love becomes clearer in my heart and mind, the more love I can then let blossom in my own heart. So... it's not really a matter of sin versus non sin but a matter of love versus non-love.
Do I sin? yes. everyday. Because I am in this carnal body, groaning with the rest of creation to be set free. I am not entirely free while I am still in this carnal body. At least that is where I am on my path. That's the way I see it. Maybe others see it differently. This life is a struggle. It's like we aren't who are to be...YET. In the meantime... we walk by faith, and we let His love blossom in our heart and we put on more of the NEW man everyday and leave the old man behind. Because LOVE is what lasts, LOVE is what is eternal... the other stuff, the NON-LOVE is fleeting, temporary, on the road to destruction.. so may as well move into that "eternal" now as much as possible. I hope that made sense.
We're all a work in progress.
Anyway... WELCOME!!!
:HeartThrob:,
a fellow seeker,
sparrow
Quote - I can't believe that with Christian Univeralism all activities and pleasures are free to us and Christ has given a us a 'sin freely' card!?!?
Hi and welcome. If Jesus taps us on the shoulder, with His Spirit gives us the faith to believe and to lead us to repentance, then His Spirit begins its work within us...and that is a recipe to lead us away from sin, crucifying us daily before the cross of the Christ...His work is to lead us to Christ, which is away from sin. The desires of our heart will be after the One that we love. We will seek to please our Heavenly Father, not a father the devil.
Heard a wise old pastor say once, "I sin all I want. In fact, I sin more more than I want"....meaning His heart was after the Father, but his old flesh still let him down. But Apostle Paul said "who will deliver me? Jesus Christ". And "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" (Romans 6:1,2)
God's blessings, James.
willieH: Hi Moon... :hithere:
Welcome to this portion of the Family of God, that really believes Him the PERFECT SAVIOR! Not missing even one "sheep"!
Look forward to your participation here... :happygrin:
:Peace:
...willieH :HeartThrob:
willieH: Hi Moon... :welcome:
Just had to comment on this part of your post:
Quote from: crescent moon on July 23, 2009, 09:00:19 PMAlso how is the issue of sin reconciled with the messege? I've heard some say one is free to live as one chooses. Jesus still called certain actions sin. He did tell the woman to "go and sin no more." I can't believe that with Christian Univeralism all activities and pleasures are free to us and Christ has given a us a 'sin freely' card!?!?
Whoever told you this (in
blue above) has
misreported the view that believers in the Salvation of ALL actually take...
If anyone claiming to be a believer in
CHRIST (Salvation of ALL or Eternal torment), seeks to have a "free to sin card"... then that one is seeking the WRONG thing... and is certainly
NOT following the Lord
JESUS CHRIST...
We are to seek
JESUS CHRIST who was SIN-LESS to be in ALL PORTIONS of our heart... and relieve us of SINFUL behavior... :thumbsup:
NOT give us a "license to FREELY SIN"! :thumbdown:
It is typical of those who do not understand the TRUTH of the Salvation of ALL, to give such a FALSE REPORT of it... :sigh:
So please new brother, ...don't listen to people who don't even believe this teaching as giving an UNBIASED report of it...
Observe yourself FIRST HAND -- those here @ Tentmaker who DO believe in the Salvation of ALL, and I can tell you that you shall find that NOT even ONE HERE is seeking a "free to sin card"!
On the contrary... the membership here is comprised of the most DEDICATED followers of
JESUS CHRIST that I (in a walk of 33 years), have EVER been a PART.
Following Him, NOT to escape (the MYTH of) HELL which most "Christian churches" teach in Orthodoxy, rather ...we just follow Him to
SERVE... and to spread the GOOD NEWS that GOD LOVES ALL, and shall SAVE ALL, ...and
that is the SOLE MOTIVE for following Him...
Not to gain something, or to "get out of anything"... but just because WE LOVE HIM and PRAISE Him... and live to give HIM a GOOD NAME of LOVE before ALL we shall witness to...
For GOOD NEWS (only) is what the word GOSPEL means...
:Peace:
...willieH :cloud9:
Quote from: crescent moon on July 23, 2009, 09:00:19 PM
I bought their lie about myself because they were the 'professionals.'
The professional has distinctive qualifications; they work for a living.
And the professional fishermen, live on their net income!
Welcome, Crescent Moon, to a new beginning.
peacemaker
Quote from: peacemaker on July 24, 2009, 08:52:30 AM
The professional has distinctive qualifications; they work for a living.
And the professional fishermen, live on their net income!
:LH:
Quote from: crescent moon on July 23, 2009, 09:00:19 PM
Hello, everyone! As you can tell from my title, I am new. I am not just new to the forum; I am new to Christian Universalism. The prospect of it is difficult to accept and exciting all in one. See I spent the last 15 years of my life as an Evangelical/ Pentecostal mainstreamer. I studied to be a minister/missionary and spent much time on the mission field. I have never fit the mainstream mold. Granted I always bought into the hell-fire-brimstone doctrine but my personality and points of view regarding missions and 'sinners' never matched up, especially on the mission field. I had a heart and passion to tell others about God! I just couldn't understand how the missionaries I worked with good be so into evangelism when actually ministering, BUT outside of actually ministry just wanted to hang in their little American groups and blow off the nationals. I went to the field to befriend nationals and not just the 'Christians' one. I was sort of an outcast. I was later sort of 'black-listed' when the missionary I worked under while in Central America informed the youth pastor of another church that he should keep an I on me during an upcoming missions' trip. I was painted out to be a 'lone star' looking for all the glory for myself. That was never the case! I bought their lie about myself because their were the 'professionals.' God must be showing them something.
Recently I've been questioning it all, because I can't understand how the very people who claim to worship Christ seem to find it acceptable to participate in a war that is killing millions of "terrorists." I had telling people these very things for years and could never see eye-to-eye with anyone. They just didn't get the logic! Also, a close relative who doesn't believe in Jesus constantly raises the typical "hell" questions that come up! Until recently I didn't even realize that there is a group of Christians who don't believe in Hell.
I do have other major issues that I have not reconciled yet and have not heard anyone address. How as Christian Universalists does someone reconcile the war-mongering God of the OT with the loving one of the NT? I've heard some say that there two different covenants, BUT that does not gel with God being the same yesterday and today! I would really like to hear how this is understood!
Also how is the issue of sin reconciled with the messege? I've heard some say one is free to live as one chooses. Jesus still called certain actions sin. He did tell the woman to "go and sin no more." I can't believe that with Christian Univeralism all activities and pleasures are free to us and Christ has given a us a 'sin freely' card!?!?
I apologize for such a long post! I look forward to the resonses and to learning more on my journey to a truer relationship with Jesus Christ!!
"But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul." (Deut. 4:29)
:welcome: :newb: :2thumbs: Welcome and Amen to that scripture you posted...You will find him, if you seek him.
That was just beautiful willieH, just beautiful.
Blessed be the name of the Lord.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIlqi8cpq24
Welcome crescent moon! You will be blessed here. Ask as many questions as you need and do not be afraid to. We are all still pressing to go deeper, and are still searching. The God of the OT is the same savior, who is the same yesterday, today and forever. The violent acts of war do seem to contradict the Jesus of the NT, but we must remember that though flesh was destroyed( as Sodom and Gomorrah were) that he still promises to save the spirit, and reconcile it to him. In Ezekiel God says that Israel's sins were WORSE than that of Sodom and Gomorrah's, and promised to RESTORE the two.
( I have to find the exact chapters- I'll post them when I have them). Anyway, welcome to the tent.
Grace and peace,
Brandon :welcome:
Quote from: aspiring son on July 25, 2009, 09:55:55 PM
Welcome crescent moon! You will be blessed here. Ask as many questions as you need and do not be afraid to. We are all still pressing to go deeper, and are still searching. The God of the OT is the same savior, who is the same yesterday, today and forever. The violent acts of war do seem to contradict the Jesus of the NT, but we must remember that though flesh was destroyed( as Sodom and Gomorrah were) that he still promises to save the spirit, and reconcile it to him. In Ezekiel God says that Israel's sins were WORSE than that of Sodom and Gomorrah's, and promised to RESTORE the two.
( I have to find the exact chapters- I'll post them when I have them). Anyway, welcome to the tent.
Grace and peace,
Brandon :welcome:
"Yet you were not satisfied to walk after their ways or to do after their abominations, but very soon you were more corrupt in all your ways than they were(for your sin, as those taught of God, is far blacker than theirs).
As I live, says the Lord God, Sodom your sister has not done, she nor her daughters, as you have done, you and your daughters". Ezekiel 16 47-48 Amplified
"I will restore them again from their captivity, restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and the fortunes of Samaria and her daughters, and I will restore your own fortunes in the midst of them ( in the day of the Lord)". Ezekiel 16 53 AmplifiedHope this helps a bit.
Grace and peace,
Brandon
Welcome -
This song says it all for me....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz_TaXGbV_w&feature=PlayList&p=FB28DA1EDC863AA5&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=9
Who can escape from the love of God?
Peace to you -
Anne
Welcome Crescent Moon! I'll pray for you and your journey! I'm excited that you're looking into UR and that you have a heart for the "outsiders" (if you will)! :bigGrin:
:welcome:
Quote
How as Christian Universalists does someone reconcile the war-mongering God of the OT with the loving one of the NT?
The "flesh" wars the "Spirit" and the "Spirit" wars the "flesh" .......
the only reason the Spirit wars the flesh is to free us from it. And
we "think" being free from it will keep us from something we like?
How deceived we are.
I was in a dream once, on a highway, could look down the distance,
and see my late husband, which at the time, we were in a "war"
between one another, and the "devil" was roaring. I crept beside
the road and lay in the grass as I saw a "lion" coming down beween
us........when it got even with me, it turned into my little sweet dog
with eyes full of love!
God works many things to bring us to see things the way He does.
I think this whole journey is to bring us out of "deception." The flesh
man just is deceived, plainly. His vision and hearing. If you don't believe me, watch Candid
Camera. ha
But when Jesus opens our eyes, He says "blessed are your eyes, for
they "see".............
They see different then, don't they?
WAR over.