Tentmaker Forum

Hello, My name is Chris and I was born and raised in Lancaster, Pa. (yes, Amish country) My background is Anabaptist on both sides and for the first 30 years of my life, I ran from Jesus and rejected my Christian upbringing. I committed my life to Christ after my first visit to a Laodicean/Sardis type Church and after a few years of struggling in fleshly works, finally began to seek the Holy Spirit. After about 9 months, I had an encounter with the Holy Spirit and have been consumed with a desire to know YHWH in every way possible. My wife and I felt lead to leave our carnal church to receive spiritual wisdom and guidance just over a year ago and have been on a path unlike any we ever experienced before...Now I am at a place of continuing to unlearn false doctrine and rebuild my foundation on the Lord Jesus Christ alone, the only sure foundation and not man's doctrine. I found this website by daily online search of deep Biblical topics, trusting the Holy Spirit to guide me.

Welcome Chris. I was born in Pennsylvania too. I always wondered what my dad was talking about when he said "Pennsylvania Dutch," but now I know. You may have been chosen to minister to those folks because you're familiar with their tradition. It's good you were guided to this site. You're going to find diverse opinions about various doctrines, but most agree that God is the savior of all mankind and all on earth and in the heavens will be reconciled to God through Christ because that is what scripture says. I was raised to be prejudiced against the English too but not because I was Amish. I'm half Irish and always identified more with that half than the English half. My dad once said, if he was in Ireland, he would have been in the IRA. I think it's sad those folks kill each other over what most of us outside that country think is religion even though it's more complicated than that. My 90 year old dad is a die hard Catholic, but I left the church at a young age. It took me some time to go through church withdrawal too, and, like you, I was guided by holy spirit to a website about universal reconciliation that changed my life. I was mad at the church for never telling me the truth in scripture, but then I realized that was because it was just trying to preserve its worldly power over its followers using fear instead of sharing God's love. I wasn't familiar with scripture when I was young because church tradition is what the Catholic Church pushes not scripture. Even after I had a epiphany causing me to realize God really does speak to us through scripture, I didn't know about the intentional mistranslation in the popular versions. It wasn't until I got mysteriously bounced to that website about universal reconciliation that I began to learn about that. When I first started reading about universal reconciliation, I thought it had to be fraudulent information like lots of believers say it is these days, but the more I read about it trying to disprove it, the more I began to realize it must be true. Like I said I got mad at the church when I finally came to believe it, but then I felt sorry for those in the church who are deceived by its doctrine. I've spent some time debating some atheists and church folks online, and I've gotten just as much hate from both of them. I understand why they feel that way, and I forgive them in their ignorance. It can be frustrating dealing with that, but I think we all need to learn to think for ourselves when we're adults. Some folks just prefer to let others tell them what to believe, but I'd rather be an outsider with a knowledge of the truth than to be socializing with folks who are deceived. I think you made the right choice, brother. Here's another good website for you to visit. http://concordant.org/ God bless you and your family.

Quote from: GraceUponGrace on October 01, 2014, 07:59:06 PM
Hello, My name is Chris and I was born and raised in Lancaster, Pa. (yes, Amish country) My background is Anabaptist on both sides and for the first 30 years of my life, I ran from Jesus and rejected my Christian upbringing. I committed my life to Christ after my first visit to a Laodicean/Sardis type Church and after a few years of struggling in fleshly works, finally began to seek the Holy Spirit. After about 9 months, I had an encounter with the Holy Spirit and have been consumed with a desire to know YHWH in every way possible. My wife and I felt lead to leave our carnal church to receive spiritual wisdom and guidance just over a year ago and have been on a path unlike any we ever experienced before...Now I am at a place of continuing to unlearn false doctrine and rebuild my foundation on the Lord Jesus Christ alone, the only sure foundation and not man's doctrine. I found this website by daily online search of deep Biblical topics, trusting the Holy Spirit to guide me.

KooL!! ..all of it!! (Awesome, actually!) Welcome to Tentmaker Forum! Love and blessings to you and your wife! :hiya:

   Greetings and salutations Grace upon Grace !!! :welcome:

   Chris  ,  I hope you enjoy your time here at the Tentmaker   site and forum  ! 

Rose  :icon_flower:

Welcome, Chris.  :thumbsup:
I was born in Baptist country (S. Mississippi). Not Amish, but not much better, either - maybe worse.
I left the Baptist church last year.
Like Tom Said,

Quote from: Tom on October 01, 2014, 08:46:08 PM
It took me some time to go through church withdrawal too, and, like you, I was guided by holy spirit to a website about universal reconciliation that changed my life.

I have been judged, condemned, unfriended, scolded, put down upon, talked about, and jabbed.
But it is all worth it.
I am now closer to the Lord than ever before, and I have gained much truth - relative to where I was (of course, I by NO means claim to be all-knowing or wise).
It is difficult to let go of religion and grasp the truth of Yahweh and his Word.
The Spirit has led me along the pathway, and I will NEVER go back to the darkness :eek: of eternal torment doctrine again! :declare:

JBerton

Amen, brother.

Welcome to the tentmaker forum and we look forward to your input in all our future discussions

Praise God! The anointing you have received will lead you and guide you into all truth. :o)

Thanks everyone, especially Tom. I had already seen that you recommended Concordant to someone else here and have been checking it out, I also have been recently studying from YLT. Is there a good website that has multiple resources and the Concordant version, like Biblehub.com? I use that site everyday because, it has so many other tools available at a click.

I didn't even realize this site was populated so much by Universalists (sorry, if that's the wrong term) I only recently have been questioning the idea of eternal judgement for anyone other than the false prophet, beast, antichrist (and it seems to me those that take the mark). Thanks everyone and God bless!

Welcome.
Rather than use the term Universalism I prefer to say "the salvation of all" because universalism has so many connotations as to confuse the truth of God eventually being "all in all".

:friendstu:

Quote from: joeteekay on October 02, 2014, 04:56:11 AM
Welcome.
Rather than use the term Universalism I prefer to say "the salvation of all" because universalism has so many connotations as to confuse the truth of God eventually being "all in all".

:friendstu:

I think Christian Universalism would be a more appropriate term to describe us

I like salvation of all too. I always thought Biblical Christian Universalism would be a good moniker.  :o)

Love the term     '' God   who is   Love will do  His perfect/complete  work   '' and all will SEE HIS GLORY ''
  All  His creation  come out of Him     and   All  creation  is  going   back  into   Him

  With God all things are possible    for HE ALONE IS GOD ALMIGHTY !
 
  GOD IS LOVE  and   LOVE  never fails :HeartThrob:

UR  is a broad term      like Religion   , lots of types    and  shadows   and everyone is in a different place in their  walk  with God in the Spirit of Truth   and all will find out   in the end   as we wait on the Lord of   heavenly hosts .

Very cool subject line for the first post!

Welcome, and enjoy.

:thumbsup:

Quote from: GraceUponGrace on October 02, 2014, 03:41:20 AM
Thanks everyone, especially Tom. I had already seen that you recommended Concordant to someone else here and have been checking it out, I also have been recently studying from YLT. Is there a good website that has multiple resources and the Concordant version, like Biblehub.com? I use that site everyday because, it has so many other tools available at a click.

I didn't even realize this site was populated so much by Universalists (sorry, if that's the wrong term) I only recently have been questioning the idea of eternal judgement for anyone other than the false prophet, beast, antichrist (and it seems to me those that take the mark). Thanks everyone and God bless!

This free program http://www.scripture4all.org/ shows the Concordant Version, King James Version, Young's Literal Translation, an ultra-literal translation, and the ancient text. The only problem is the Concordant Version Old Testament section has some typos that need to be edited, and it's doubtful that's going to happen any time soon.

The Commentary Browser works with it. http://www.scripture4all.org/cbrowser/cbrowser.htm

Here's a better version of the Concordant Version Old Testament. http://concordant.org/online/index.html The book is soon to be published, and then the PDF file will be updated. The PDF file is more accurate than the ISA Concordant Version Old Testament though.

The reason the word "universalist" is controversial is because the Unitarian Universalist Church, a consolidation of Unitarians and the Universalist Church, are not exclusively Christian anymore even though there are some Unitarian Universalist Christian Fellowships. That's why some folks prefer to say Christian Universalism. Personally I just say I'm a believer, and in my opinion that includes the concept of universal reconciliation, the salvation of all mankind, and God all in all at the consummation of the eons because that's all in scripture which I believe is the inspired written word of God. You've got to study an accurate translation though to get the truth.   

Quote from: joeteekay on October 02, 2014, 04:56:11 AM
Rather than use the term Universalism I prefer to say "the salvation of all" because universalism has so many connotations as to confuse the truth of God eventually being "all in all".

Me too. I'm not sure, :dontknow: but it seems like Universalism is a religion where they pretty much believe that all religions are universally OK, and whatever you believe will get you there (wherever you believe you are going) is fine and dandy. Kind of an "anything goes" religion of religions :eek:. To avoid the association with that religion, I avoid the word "Universal" and any of its forms. I have been labeled "Universalist" by misunderstanders numerous times. :punish: :winkgrin:

Ok, I clearly have a lot to learn about Christian Universalism/salvation to all (maybe complete redemption?) and thanks for all the info! I started with reading some passages from Concordant and it does seem similar to YLT (my preferred for study at this time). That made me wonder who A.E.Knoch was (interesting that his name sounds like "a Enoch"...) and am reading His writing "What is the Soul?" because understanding the difference between the soul and the seems to be one of the more important (and too often overlooked) issues in our day and age. I love how thorough he is!

Chris, welcome to the Tent!   :friendstu: :gimmefive: :friendstu:

If you are searching for what the "Soul" is, it's all laid out in the early chapters of Genesis.  Hint:  You do not "have" a soul - you ARE a soul.

Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 03, 2014, 08:11:09 PM
If you are searching for what the "Soul" is, it's all laid out in the early chapters of Genesis.  Hint:  You do not "have" a soul - you ARE a soul.

Such a simple truth, Laz, that so many people do not understand!

I recently saw this illustrated as a light bulb:   

BULB    +    ELECTRICITY   =     LIGHT
BODY   +    SPIRIT             =     SOUL

When the body is formed, Yah breathes the breath of life into it, and it becomes a living soul.

[Gen 2:7 KJV] "And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Then when the body dies, the spirit returns to the Father from whom it came, the body returns to the earth from whence it came, and the soul "sleeps" - until the resurrection!

[Ecc 12:7 KJV] "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

Quote from: GraceUponGrace on October 03, 2014, 05:40:03 PM
Ok, I clearly have a lot to learn about Christian Universalism/salvation to all (maybe complete redemption?) and thanks for all the info! I started with reading some passages from Concordant and it does seem similar to YLT (my preferred for study at this time). That made me wonder who A.E.Knoch was (interesting that his name sounds like "a Enoch"...) and am reading His writing "What is the Soul?" because understanding the difference between the soul and the seems to be one of the more important (and too often overlooked) issues in our day and age. I love how thorough he is!

Lots of folks confuse spirit and soul and use them interchangeably. What you're reading is a good explanation. Some folks put down A.E.Knoch because his beliefs are not orthodox, but I think they conform to scripture. Some folks also put down the Concordant Version for the same reason, but it's my preference because I think it's the most accurate I've read. No version is perfect, but, if you compare them with the ancient text and an ultra-literal translation, you'll see what I mean. I don't consider anybody to be an absolute authority other than the word of God, but the Concordant Expositions give you a lot of good information to accompany your study of it. And the Concordant folks are the first to tell you that the most important thing to read is the word of God.

Quote from: JBerton on October 03, 2014, 10:03:41 PM

Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 03, 2014, 08:11:09 PM
If you are searching for what the "Soul" is, it's all laid out in the early chapters of Genesis.  Hint:  You do not "have" a soul - you ARE a soul.

Such a simple truth, Laz, that so many people do not understand!

I recently saw this illustrated as a light bulb:   

BULB    +    ELECTRICITY   =     LIGHT
BODY   +    SPIRIT             =     SOUL

When the body is formed, Yah breathes the breath of life into it, and it becomes a living soul.

[Gen 2:7 KJV] "And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Then when the body dies, the spirit returns to the Father from whom it came, the body returns to the earth from whence it came, and the soul "sleeps" - until the resurrection!

[/i][Ecc 12:7 KJV] "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

Your comment JB, which I highlighted in bold red is a very significant and profound truth.

Quote from: JBerton on October 03, 2014, 10:03:41 PM

Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 03, 2014, 08:11:09 PM
If you are searching for what the "Soul" is, it's all laid out in the early chapters of Genesis.  Hint:  You do not "have" a soul - you ARE a soul.

Such a simple truth, Laz, that so many people do not understand!

I recently saw this illustrated as a light bulb:   

BULB    +    ELECTRICITY   =     LIGHT
BODY   +    SPIRIT             =     SOUL

When the body is formed, Yah breathes the breath of life into it, and it becomes a living soul.

[Gen 2:7 KJV] "And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Then when the body dies, the spirit returns to the Father from whom it came, the body returns to the earth from whence it came, and the soul "sleeps" - until the resurrection!

[Ecc 12:7 KJV] "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

That's a good analogy, JBerton!  You see, electricity is much like the Spirit in that both are not well understood.  Jesus compared the Spirit to wind (same root?), of which no one knows where it comes from or where it is going.  We apply electricity to circuits and know where it comes from and where it is going, but the truth is that no one really knows what it is.  Electrons moving in a conductor?  It's only a theory.  Both are animating forces.

Something interesting I recently came across is an article about a doctor that discovered that there is a weight loss at the moment of death in people, about 3/4 of an ounce,  but not in animals.  :Chinscratch: I guess this means the spirit has mass? They are calling it the soul but, oh well, I think they mean spirit.

  I love it !!!      great  stuff , guys !! 
  It all helps     

QuoteIf you are searching for what the "Soul" is, it's all laid out in the early chapters of Genesis.  Hint:  You do not "have" a soul - you ARE a soul.

:thumbsup:
I do not believe in soul sleep     entirely  , I believe some pass     this step completely  , its the reward of being faithful     
  they already have passed from death to Life   
Only because JESUS CHRIST IS THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE    and His words  not mine , in John   5 ;24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to  life
  It   is our goal     what we run the race for


How does one  enter this rest   and    the works follow   ?   
A few things that helped me to see    over the    teachings  and WORDS OF CHRIST HIMSELF   

   What does a man exchange for his soul /life ?

  what would he give for his soul / life ?

I do believe we are to exchange     our lives for His LIFE , CHRIST IN YOU the hope of Glory to the Father   
  this is the buying and   selling and    mark of the beast     
  Its  what one gives to have everything now  in the world    and not the soul or life of Christ

  Those whom have   this soul or life    have missed the mark of the high calling      to come out of the world and into Jesus Christ .

But the truth and sell it not !    Buy of Me   Rev 3 17'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,


18I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see. 19'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.


  best counsel    on   could take   !    all source of goodness and  Life and Love is of Him    , from Him and to Him   :HeartThrob: