Hello Everyone,
I have been a Christian for 34 years, but have recently become a Universalist, like so many, having been bothered by the Shizoid nature of Calvinism and Arminianism. I still feel I have many questions, however, and may be able to help things along with some answers as well.
I attend an Anglican Church, and also volunteer at a Medium Security Penitentiary Chapel every Sunday evening.
Dave
Hi Dave. Welcome, brother. Sounds like a great ministry.
Hi Dave ,was recently in St.John(really foggy).Glad to see some more canadians!
blessings :icon_king:
ColdWar soon you will chance your nickname into WarmPeace :laughing7:
Teach and learn. And above all enjoy the ride :thumbsup:
:newb: :welcome: :reachout:
Do you want to talk, or do you want to spend a little time in the cooler?
"Friends don't set friends on fire."
peacemaker
Prison chaplain work, very nice. I am interested in your perspectives and intrigued about your church. Grace and peace, brother.
Quote from: peacemaker on April 14, 2010, 07:59:02 AM
Do you want to talk, or do you want to spend a little time in the cooler?
"Friends don't set friends on fire."
peacemaker
I've been poking around here a bit, finding the threads very interesting. I'm also fascinated by the lack of conflict overall, in comparison with just about every other Christian Apologetic Forum I've encountered.
One thing I would like to talk about is a tendency for some to "spiritualize" so many things. I certainly do agree that the Word is "Spiritually Discerned" and the only way to understand it is to be taught of the Holy Spirit. The problem I see, perhaps here more than most places, is that "spiritual discernment" looks more like "private interpretation". I do not want to single anybody out, but express an overall caution perhaps- as the Spirit is One, and there is one Spirit, then I think we have to expect a closer unity in spiritual interpretation. I don't mean that everybody needs to be seeing, hearing and speaking in exactly the same way- no, no. But when I see interpretations that are so wildly different, and in many places, spiritual interpretations are offered when a simple literal interpretation would serve much better, and is more likely what God intended, I have to wonder.
I would love to hear some good comments and observations about this.
Dave
I am one who probably falls in the "everything is spiritual" category. And the "personal interpretation" that many use as reasoning for showing caution is common. And it's understandable. Many of the "spiritualizations" I personally share come from the patterns in Scripture and not so much from a personal interpretation. For me, it's the personal interpretations that created traditional boundary lines of what is and what isn't accepted as "truth". And it's those same personal interpretations that I myself grew up in for years. Now that I see deeper patterns beginning to surface in those same Scriptures. There really is a bit of a contrast between what I "thought" it was saying as opposed to what the rest of Scripture, which is where the patterns formed, is actually revealing. It's tough to initially switch gears, but it's mostly because I was taught to read only a certain way and when other alternatives come by, it's difficult to make the switch. But the sound . . .i just can't ignore the sound of truth that comes forth from the patterns of understanding. It's a beautiful thing.
Beautiful post and Amen, it's a beautiful thing.
Thanks Nathan- I'm still not sure I understand where you're coming from, but as I said, there is definitely a sweet spirit here that I like, and I'll be praying for an opening of my own spirit, to see and grow in the Truth.
Quote from: onlytruth on April 14, 2010, 01:17:56 AM
Hi Dave ,was recently in St.John(really foggy).Glad to see some more canadians!
blessings :icon_king:
I lived in Saint John for 25 years. I'm now back in the Moncton, NB area (town of Sackville), where I grew up.
Dave
I have to admit I came in by ship and didn't see much of the countryside.I wish I would have gone to see the reversing river ,that sounded cool
blessings :icon_king:
Quote from: coldwar on April 16, 2010, 07:03:31 PM
there is definitely a sweet spirit here that I like, and I'll be praying for an opening of my own spirit, to see and grow in the Truth.
Good questions Dave. IMO, the scriptures and the Spirit always agree. Knowledge, if given (revealed) by the Spirit is a useful thing - we just can't rely on our own understanding. I believe a key is giving our being up to Him, as He works HIS works through us. Always looking to Him . :thumbsup:
Quote from: coldwar on April 16, 2010, 05:51:38 PM
Quote from: peacemaker on April 14, 2010, 07:59:02 AM
Do you want to talk, or do you want to spend a little time in the cooler?
"Friends don't set friends on fire."
I've been poking around here a bit, finding the threads very interesting. I'm also fascinated by the lack of conflict overall, in comparison with just about every other Christian Apologetic Forum I've encountered.
One thing I would like to talk about is a tendency for some to "spiritualize" so many things. I certainly do agree that the Word is "Spiritually Discerned" and the only way to understand it is to be taught of the Holy Spirit. The problem I see, perhaps here more than most places, is that "spiritual discernment" looks more like "private interpretation". I do not want to single anybody out, but express an overall caution perhaps- as the Spirit is One, and there is one Spirit, then I think we have to expect a closer unity in spiritual interpretation. I don't mean that everybody needs to be seeing, hearing and speaking in exactly the same way- no, no. But when I see interpretations that are so wildly different, and in many places, spiritual interpretations are offered when a simple literal interpretation would serve much better, and is more likely what God intended, I have to wonder.
I would love to hear some good comments and observations about this.
Dave
A charitable interpretation requires an acuteness in judgment and understanding.
"Sensitive eyesight with excellent hearing."
peacemaker
Coldwar,
Welcome to the site Brother!
Coming from a very conservative evangelical background and college I hear your comments about interpretation loud and clear. At the same time, the people who drilled into me the concerns and fears about right interpretation were just flat out wrong on some points, and vehemently so.
That alone has made me much more open to the fact that I just don't know for sure on a lot of things. I want it to be based upon my knowledge and intelligence in rightly dividing the scriptures, but in reality it is based upon faith, as it should be. It's just up to me to recognize that is what it is.
I think God, who invented language, who inspired and preserved the scriptures, could have certainly made every theological point clear as chrystal if he had chosen to. But alas, look at the differing interpretations by sincere people! Look at the mystery and lack of clarity in scripture! Do our brains (and hearts?) lack the capacity to clearly understand scripture? Do our brains (and hearts?) fall far short of being able to comprehend God so he leaves it unclear, apparently bifurcated, and deep in scripture? Is there a lot we just don't need to know at this time because faith is the real issue? Or perhaps it is only the truly broken and contrite that begin to grasp a dim view of the picture? Or maybe all of the above?
Either way, humility, love and unity should trump theology in every situation. So I choose to believe, I choose what to believe, I study to show myself approved, I long to know but I recognize that my flesh is wrapped up in that longing and so I check it with my spirit and remind myself what is truly important. Jesus said that the Spirit would guide us into all truth but he didn't command or pray for theological perfection or understanding, he prayed and commanded love and unity.
Just some of my thoughts - I share them because I can relate to your concerns.
Quote from: SteveW on April 19, 2010, 05:21:44 PM
Either way, humility, love and unity should trump theology in every situation. So I choose to believe, I choose what to believe, I study to show myself approved, I long to know but I recognize that my flesh is wrapped up in that longing and so I check it with my spirit and remind myself what is truly important. Jesus said that the Spirit would guide us into all truth but he didn't command or pray for theological perfection or understanding, he prayed and commanded love and unity.
Just some of my thoughts - I share them because I can relate to your concerns.
Thanks Steve, for the welcome, and everything you had to say- very well put! Reminds me of Paul saying "...believe all things, hope all things, endure all things..."
Dave
Quote from: Apoc on April 14, 2010, 09:45:29 AM
Prison chaplain work, very nice. I am interested in your perspectives and intrigued about your church. Grace and peace, brother.
Thanks Apoc! Yes, working in a prison chaplain setting (mainly as a song leader / guitar player) is tremendously exciting. The men who attend chapel come regularly, and really want to be there, and occasionally a stranger will show up, looking real sullen, and often will leave in the middle. That tells me there's a lot of ripe fruit in our prisons, and the ones who are already Christians are busy reaching out to the ones who aren't. Anyway, the men are very happy to be visited by outsiders!
The church I attend is "prayer-book Church of England" - very Orthodox. The Prison Protestant Chaplain also attends the same, but he invites other groups into the prison to minister, who are all Conservative Evangelical Pentecostals and Baptists. It's an interesting mix, and does demonstrate a degree of unity in such an important ministry. I prefer Church of England because they are at least open to Universalist ideas- indeed many of their most renowned theologians are Universalists. Suffice it to say however, the Evangelical groups who also visit the prison are not Universalists.
Dave
Would you being talking about people like Jacque Ellul? I think he was apart of the Church of England.