22
But I say vnto you, that whosoeuer is angry with his brother without a cause, shall be in danger of the Iudgement: and whosoeuer shall say to his brother, Racha, shal be in danger of the counsell: but whosoeuer shall say, Thou foole, shalbe in danger of hell fire.
Anyone any ideas what the translation was before hell was put in it?
geenan tou pyros
"gehenna of fire"
Is what it really was in Greek. You can also find these things quite easily for yourself (I am glad to give answers but you might like to know where I go for mine :o) in the Biblehub web-site. Simply choose the verse in the search at the top of the page. When you get there, choose "interlinear" in the bar across the page near the top, it will take you to the Greek translation of the verse. Then click on the word in question, it will give you a variety of meanings and sources for them, like Strong's Geek Dictionary, Thauer's Greek and others.
This one is available at http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/5-22.htm (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/5-22.htm)
Chester, In my opinion the name Gehenna should have been left like it is and not translated to anything because it is the name of a place near Jerusalem that is still there and is for sure not hell. A good article on this is found here. http://concordant.org/expositions/death-and-judgment/the-gehenna-of-fire/
Another good interlinear..I think, is - http://studybible.info/IGNT/Matthew%201:1 - plus many other versions.. The bible hub link however offers an app.. though I haven't used it yet..
http://studybible.info/IGNT/Matthew%205:22 - is the verse Matthew 5:22 (if you click on the numbers you will go to the Hebrew word)
(I'm on the look out for a site that lets me copy and paste the verses more easily than what I've found so far.. maybe the biblehub site? I had a program ISA - which I loved! - but my windows computer broke and I now have chrome which doesn't support windows.. I plan to get a windows tablet.. maybe it will work on that! :banana: copy pasting worked much better.. )
:Peace2:
Cheers all.
Quote from: marie glen on December 29, 2016, 12:37:32 AM
Another good interlinear..I think, is - http://studybible.info/IGNT/Matthew%201:1 - plus many other versions.. The bible hub link however offers an app.. though I haven't used it yet..
http://studybible.info/IGNT/Matthew%205:22 - is the verse Matthew 5:22 (if you click on the numbers you will go to the Hebrew word)
(I'm on the look out for a site that lets me copy and paste the verses more easily than what I've found so far.. maybe the biblehub site? I had a program ISA - which I loved! - but my windows computer broke and I now have chrome which doesn't support windows.. I plan to get a windows tablet.. maybe it will work on that! :banana: copy pasting worked much better.. )
:Peace2:
I copy and paste from both biblehub and bible gageteway with no complications. E-sword is also good, they have an active site and a program to download so you can use it in yout browser or have to use in your computer. E-sword is excellent and it is free.
I think why I get confused is because when you put say sheol, hades etc into search engines it often comes up with all these different translations.
As an example I like to know the original Hebrew or Greek translation only, not all the others as they often will tell you it becomes hell later and therefore is used by others to say 'see hades/sheol does mean hell'.
Is there a site where just the single word you are looking for gives just the actual translation? and hen the history (timeline wise) of when it changed to become something far more sinister?
Thanks.
Quote from: eaglesway on December 29, 2016, 05:37:57 AM
Quote from: marie glen on December 29, 2016, 12:37:32 AM
Another good interlinear..I think, is - http://studybible.info/IGNT/Matthew%201:1 - plus many other versions.. The bible hub link however offers an app.. though I haven't used it yet..
http://studybible.info/IGNT/Matthew%205:22 - is the verse Matthew 5:22 (if you click on the numbers you will go to the Hebrew word)
(I'm on the look out for a site that lets me copy and paste the verses more easily than what I've found so far.. maybe the biblehub site? I had a program ISA - which I loved! - but my windows computer broke and I now have chrome which doesn't support windows.. I plan to get a windows tablet.. maybe it will work on that! :banana: copy pasting worked much better.. )
:Peace2:
I copy and paste from both biblehub and bible gageteway with no complications. E-sword is also good, they have an active site and a program to download so you can use it in yout browser or have to use in your computer. E-sword is excellent and it is free.
Thanks! I'm going to check out biblehub :thumbsup: E-sword is a program so I can't use it right now as I haven't windows but chrome, and last I knew there wasn't an app.. I can copy paste from bible gateway :thumbsup:
Quote from: chester-blowfold on December 29, 2016, 02:25:46 PM
I think why I get confused is because when you put say sheol, hades etc into search engines it often comes up with all these different translations.
As an example I like to know the original Hebrew or Greek translation only, not all the others as they often will tell you it becomes hell later and therefore is used by others to say 'see hades/sheol does mean hell'.
Is there a site where just the single word you are looking for gives just the actual translation? and hen the history (timeline wise) of when it changed to become something far more sinister?
Thanks.
Is your operating system "windows"? If so you can download a program called ISA - also one called E-sword, which I've never used, so I don't know exactly how it works (no windows right now).
But I really liked the ISA program.. as with all things computer may seem complicated at first (?) but if I'm remembering right it does show an exact wording.. with the hebrew or greek and clicking the word brings up a little box that tells a summary of its meaning and use.. I even had found a way to copy and paste from it.. which sure helps in study, etc.
E-sword sounds like it's great as well..
I sure miss my ISA program.. hoping to be able to download to a windows tablet :dontknow:
http://www.scripture4all.org/download/download_ISA3.php
I'm going to go check out biblehub.. the little dialog boxes are a lot better than http://studybible.info/IGNT/Matthew%201:1 changing pages, or even new tab..
Quote from: chester-blowfold on December 29, 2016, 02:25:46 PM
I think why I get confused is because when you put say sheol, hades etc into search engines it often comes up with all these different translations.
As an example I like to know the original Hebrew or Greek translation only, not all the others as they often will tell you it becomes hell later and therefore is used by others to say 'see hades/sheol does mean hell'.
Is there a site where just the single word you are looking for gives just the actual translation? and hen the history (timeline wise) of when it changed to become something far more sinister?
Thanks.
Biblehub's looking good for this! :thumbsup:
Here's the "
lexicon" for John 1:1 (the choices of book, chapter and verse are at the very top.. and seems to show word for word in the verse.. an arrow for next verse..
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/john/1-1.htm (http://biblehub.com/lexicon/john/1-1.htm)
and here's Matthew 5:22 - **
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/matthew/5-22.htm (http://biblehub.com/lexicon/matthew/5-22.htm)
And Eaglesway's article in his signature "Hell is a myth" is really, really good as to when and
how the idea of hell stole in -
http://www.hell-is-a-myth.webs.com/ (http://www.hell-is-a-myth.webs.com/) - which I want to reread from time to time, until it becomes permanently in my memory banks! :laughing7:
ALso, Eagleway's - Reply http://tentmaker.org/forum/bible-threatenings-explained/ps-5515-to-sheol-alive/msg202852/#msg202852 (http://tentmaker.org/forum/bible-threatenings-explained/ps-5515-to-sheol-alive/msg202852/#msg202852) is very informative on the how and when.. :thumbsup: on the topic -
Ps. 55:15 - to Sheol alive «
Reply #20My personal favorite reference is Genesis 3:19 - "..dust you are and to dust you will return." Which makes me think sheol was originally (in our Father's intent) the literal grave.. and what with all the wars I can't help thinking Israel was acquainted with the mass grave (or pit).. And I tend to think the meaning changed over time, to blend more with other nations of the world (all other nations) as a place or abode of the dead.. I guess I think the only abode of the dead is in God's mind and memory.. which I don't think of as a place. Just my :2c: "
dust to dust"..
"has God really said..? ...surely you won't... die..?" - one of the 1st untruths, very strongly held ("stronghold") in the psyche of mankind (imo)
:Peace2: :gsmile:
Google search - "Gehenna" - https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=what%20was%20gehenna%3F (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=what%20was%20gehenna%3F)
If it's not a reference to the city dump.. where even criminal's bodies were burned.. thus fires kept burning and worms were present.. Even if it were a place of 'afterlife' punishment.. the "lake of fire" is called "agelasting" not "forever and ever" as translated.
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/revelation/20-10.htm (http://biblehub.com/lexicon/revelation/20-10.htm) - "a space of time, an age" (Revelation 20:10)
Jude 7 - http://biblehub.com/lexicon/jude/1-7.htm (http://biblehub.com/lexicon/jude/1-7.htm) - The verse, Jude 7 - "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah ..serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal / agelong (from aión) fire." - where are the flames? If we go there, we would perhaps see mounds of dust and ashes.. no flames..
:thumbsup:
Cheers marie. I need to sit down and have a study over the next few days.
Quote from: marie glen on December 29, 2016, 12:37:32 AM
Another good interlinear..I think, is - http://studybible.info/IGNT/Matthew%201:1 - plus many other versions.. The bible hub link however offers an app.. though I haven't used it yet..
http://studybible.info/IGNT/Matthew%205:22 - is the verse Matthew 5:22 (if you click on the numbers you will go to the Hebrew word)
(I'm on the look out for a site that lets me copy and paste the verses more easily than what I've found so far.. maybe the biblehub site? I had a program ISA - which I loved! - but my windows computer broke and I now have chrome which doesn't support windows.. I plan to get a windows tablet.. maybe it will work on that! :banana: copy pasting worked much better.. )
:Peace2:
You can use the .pdf files from the same site.
Unfortunately copy paste isn't possible. But I think it's on of the best interlinears.
Soon ISA3 Pro :thumbsup:
http://qbible.com/
This is VERY good interlinear site. Just try it for half an hour. I know it looks quite confusing and chaotic at first. But it has lots of functionality you may like. Just try.
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 30, 2016, 10:31:14 AM
Soon ISA3 Pro :thumbsup:
:banana:
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 30, 2016, 10:31:14 AM
http://qbible.com/
This is VERY good interlinear site. Just try it for half an hour. I know it looks quite confusing and chaotic at first. But it has lots of functionality you may like. Just try.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Amen! It's awesome, I especially like the Greek interlinear - http://qbible.com/greek-new-testament/ (http://qbible.com/greek-new-testament/)
Seems to be a very close to the original interlinear.. the closer the better!
thanks! WhiteWings! Lots of good material and tools.. Aramaic New Testament.. :thumbsup: lots of parallel.. :thumbsup:
P.S. -
I was attracted to H1945 - because I believe Rev 13:13 occurred in 1945, which I mention a lot, elsewhere, but no one listens to me -
coincidental - http://lexiconcordance.com/hebrew/1945.html - "ah!, alas!, ha!, ho!, O!, woe!"
:Chinscratch: but forget I mentioned it, I'll post about this in Revelation threads..
Quote from: chester-blowfold on December 29, 2016, 02:25:46 PM
I think why I get confused is because when you put say sheol, hades etc into search engines it often comes up with all these different translations.
As an example I like to know the original Hebrew or Greek translation only, not all the others as they often will tell you it becomes hell later and therefore is used by others to say 'see hades/sheol does mean hell'.
Is there a site where just the single word you are looking for gives just the actual translation? and hen the history (timeline wise) of when it changed to become something far more sinister?
Thanks.
One thing I like about e-sword is you can put in any word and it will list every occurence. You can also put in any Strongs number- it will give you a list of every occurence, so...
If you want to look a "hell" you enter hell and you get the complete list with strongs numbers. If you see more than one number for one word you can then enter the different numbers and see in each verse, whether it was sheol, gehenna, or tartarus- and how many of each. I realized that gehenna, if i remember correctly was translated "hell" 11 times(KJV), but when you notice that there are repitions in the gospels of the same verses there are really only 7 unique occurences in the NT and 6 of them are spoken by Jesus, one by James. Sheol was translated "hell" around 50 times(KJV NT)
If you wanted to look at "world", you would discover that world can be kosmos, aion, gaia, and I think there is one more Greek word that is translated world sometimes.
With this I was able to read every one of the 454 occurrences of "olam"(Hebrew root concept word for Gr. "aion") in the OT, and every occurence of "aion/aionios in the NT.
This gives a strong sense of context about critical words after awhile.