Tentmaker Forum

Public Lounge => Welcome Central - **FIRST POST MUST BE MADE HERE => Topic started by: keylawk on July 01, 2015, 04:18:21 AM

Title: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: keylawk on July 01, 2015, 04:18:21 AM
I cannot help but notice that Ezekiel seems to specify a number of abominations and sins, without touching upon gay marriage.  And why did Lot's wife, chosen to be spared, turn out to be punished for gazing back at the city that she loved, as she is leaving in obedience.
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: jabcat on July 01, 2015, 04:39:41 AM
Hi Keylawk.  Interesting "introduction".

The first part of your post, active homosexuality, is dealt with in various other places of scripture, just as are many other specific sins - greed, idolatry, adultery, fornication, stealing, lying, lust, etc.  Not every writer necessarily specifically mentions every sin.  Not sure why Ezekiel didn't in the specific passage you cite.

As far as Lot's wife, without studying it at the moment, I personally don't know the answer to the question, seems like one that might require some study, meditation, and discussion might help with that.
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: Dandelion on July 01, 2015, 05:15:31 AM
Quote from: keylawk on July 01, 2015, 04:18:21 AM
I cannot help but notice that Ezekiel seems to specify a number of abominations and sins, without touching upon gay marriage.  And why did Lot's wife, chosen to be spared, turn out to be punished for gazing back at the city that she loved, as she is leaving in obedience.
[/quote)

Genesis 19:

15 With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, "Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished."

16 When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand and the hands of his wife and of his two daughters and led them safely out of the city, for the Lord was merciful to them. 17 As soon as they had brought them out, one of them said, "Flee for your lives! Don't look back, and don't stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!"


18 But Lot said to them, "No, my lords, please! 19 Your[c] servant has found favor in your[d] eyes, and you[e] have shown great kindness to me in sparing my life. But I can't flee to the mountains; this disaster will overtake me, and I'll die. 20 Look, here is a town near enough to run to, and it is small. Let me flee to it—it is very small, isn't it? Then my life will be spared."

21 He said to him, "Very well, I will grant this request too; I will not overthrow the town you speak of. 22 But flee there quickly, because I cannot do anything until you reach it." (That is why the town was called Zoar.)

23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land. 26 But Lot's wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.

Lot's wife turned to salt, because they were asked not to look back, by the angels.
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: jabcat on July 01, 2015, 05:21:24 AM
So dandelion, that would indicate she wasn't being obedient..partially, but not completely.

Boy, I'm glad God is patient, because that often describes me to a tee.  :(
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: Dandelion on July 01, 2015, 05:53:04 AM
Yes, you could say it that way, jabcat, I suppose.  :declare:

Moral of the story: Don't look back!    :gimpossible:

Well, actually it is more to the tune of 'Obey'. But, I do think there is a message here, about looking back to what we are told to let go of. Except for healing purposes, sometimes, when God says to move on, it is time to let go and embrace the next part of our adventure.

Philippians 3:

12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus....

D.
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: sheila on July 01, 2015, 06:40:57 AM
I believe what occurred with her is similiar with what occurred in the wilderness when some in Israel looked

back  or [longed to return] to Egypt.   It was a very fruitful plain with a lot of material prosperity.

   when God begins His deliverance work in us...and brings us out of the world/loving the things of

this world....any longing for what we are leaving behind can be a real danger to our spiritual deliverance.
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: eaglesway on July 01, 2015, 07:02:13 AM
Quote from: keylawk on July 01, 2015, 04:18:21 AM
I cannot help but notice that Ezekiel seems to specify a number of abominations and sins, without touching upon gay marriage.  And why did Lot's wife, chosen to be spared, turn out to be punished for gazing back at the city that she loved, as she is leaving in obedience.

She was told specifically not to look back, they all were.

15 With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, "Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished."

16 When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand and the hands of his wife and of his two daughters and led them safely out of the city, for the Lord was merciful to them. 17 As soon as they had brought them out, one of them said, "Flee for your lives! Don't look back, and don't stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!"
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: eaglesway on July 01, 2015, 07:53:15 AM
Marriage is from God. "Male and female He created them". I dont think the government should be involved in marriage at all, beyond basic health issues, but just because the government calls a legal union between gay men or women doesnt mean it is marriage in the sight of God. It isnt. It is just a legal arrangement in the sight of man.

The proliferation of homosexuality and gender confusion among young people is a symptom of a previously existing condition.

"Because they knew Him as God and honored Him not as God they became darkened in their understanding...."

If people had been as up in arms over the heterosexual lewdness that preceded this current flood of homosexuality and the objectivism of sex apart from love all over all the media and in schools- we wouldnt be here now, and it will only get worse.

I am determined not to get caught up in this issue. There are seekers of God out there, in the highways and hedges. They need the gospel. I will hold it out for them. I can save no one, only the Father draws them. When my nation is no longer a Christian nation then I will continue to be a disciple of Jesus and a citizen of the kingdom of God- a member of His body. But there are still true believers in our country, and we can minister to our brothers and sisters as the levee breaks and the flood waters overflow.

I will do as His Spirit leads me daily. I do not feel led to address all the problems of the world. I am just called to offer the bread of life when I find one hungry, the water of life when I find one thirsty, the word in season when I find one weary on the road as I walk it in my unique life, as all our unique lives continue until they end :o)
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: sheila on July 01, 2015, 07:57:39 AM
 :iagree:
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: ian on July 14, 2015, 07:36:07 AM
'Gay marriage' specifically may not have even been conceptualized. As for what Sodom is popularly known for, doesn't necessarily make it scriptural, right? ;)   A place of widespread lawlessness does sound even more relevant though, imho.

Rom 1:28-32    And according as they do not test God, to have Him in recognition, God gives them over to a disqualified mind, to do that which is not befitting, filled with all injustice, wickedness, evil, greed, distended with envy, murder, strife, guile, depravity, whisperers, vilifiers, detesters of God, outragers, proud, ostentatious, inventors of evil things, stubborn to parents, unintelligent, perfidious, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful those who, recognizing the just statute of God, that those committing such things are deserving of death, not only are doing them, but are endorsing, also, those who are committing them.

To expand on your post Eagle, I haven't seen anything in the New Testament about actively participating in society, which is interesting to me. As a side note, in a state of complacency, with nothing to endure, there is diminished tested-ness, as per Rom 5, and Paul seemed to be against complacency and for endurance. This is a much more difficult point to explain than it seems, but to me, staying separate and holding fast is the walk, in a nutshell. Keeping focus and belonging to our Father in Heaven, not that of earth, still, not being an adversary, not condemning, as we were shown grace. This is also a demonstration to those seeking.

That being said, I'm sad for all of those subjected to the confusion of the world. It's a hopeless place without Him, that much is abundantly clear.
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: Lazarus Short on July 14, 2015, 07:44:45 AM
All these thing happen because men have forgotten God.  :doh:
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: jabcat on July 14, 2015, 09:06:19 AM
Among many lawless things, "what they're popularly known for" is actually part of what they were doing as well. 

In the Romans quote that does cover many sins of the flesh that need confession and forgiveness;  still, backing up a couple of verses, including 27,28, of course is found,  "and in like manner also the males having left the natural use of the female, did burn in their longing toward one another; males with males working shame, and the recompense of their error that was fit, in themselves receiving."  YLT 



 


Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: jabcat on July 14, 2015, 09:16:36 AM
Yes Laz, reading further up in the beginning of Romans, it says when they knew God they didn't honor Him, turning to their own imaginations so their heart was darkened.
----
Ian,
Re: Sodom, among many lawless things, "what they're popularly known for" is actually part of what they were doing as well.  Including it seems, depraved men wanting to break into Lot's house and rape the [disguised as male] angels.

In the Romans quote that does cover many sins of the flesh that need confession and forgiveness, backing up a couple of verses to include vs. 27-28, of course is found, 
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature.
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men, working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense for their error which was meet.
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: jabcat on July 14, 2015, 09:27:57 AM
To the OP and however else may apply, here's what I consider a POV with some balance, with the author saying being inhospitable (and other sinfulness/"lawlessness") was indeed a major reason for Sodom's destruction.  However, he also states that homosexual gang rape certainly also qualifies as being inhospitable, and shows by comparing other scriptures how it fits together.  from 'gotquestions' -

"... the most common response to the question "What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?" is that it was homosexuality. That is how the term "sodomy" came to be used to refer to anal sex between two men, whether consensual or forced. Clearly, homosexuality was part of why God destroyed the two cities. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to perform homosexual gang rape on the two angels (who were disguised as men). At the same time, it is not biblical to say that homosexuality was the exclusive reason why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were definitely not exclusive in terms of the sins in which they indulged.

Ezekiel 16:49-50 declares, "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me..." The Hebrew word translated "detestable" refers to something that is morally disgusting and is the exact same word used in Leviticus 18:22 that refers to homosexuality as an "abomination." Similarly, Jude 7 declares, "...Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion." So, again, while homosexuality was not the only sin in which the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah indulged, it does appear to be the primary reason for the destruction of the cities.

Those who attempt to explain away the biblical condemnations of homosexuality claim that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were certainly being inhospitable. There is probably nothing more inhospitable than homosexual gang rape. But to say God completely destroyed two cities and all their inhabitants for being inhospitable clearly misses the point."
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: eaglesway on July 14, 2015, 09:34:53 AM
Quote from: ian on July 14, 2015, 07:36:07 AM
'Gay marriage' specifically may not have even been conceptualized. As for what Sodom is popularly known for, doesn't necessarily make it scriptural, right? ;)   A place of widespread lawlessness does sound even more relevant though, imho.

Rom 1:28-32    And according as they do not test God, to have Him in recognition, God gives them over to a disqualified mind, to do that which is not befitting, filled with all injustice, wickedness, evil, greed, distended with envy, murder, strife, guile, depravity, whisperers, vilifiers, detesters of God, outragers, proud, ostentatious, inventors of evil things, stubborn to parents, unintelligent, perfidious, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful those who, recognizing the just statute of God, that those committing such things are deserving of death, not only are doing them, but are endorsing, also, those who are committing them.

To expand on your post Eagle, I haven't seen anything in the New Testament about actively participating in society, which is interesting to me. As a side note, in a state of complacency, with nothing to endure, there is diminished tested-ness, as per Rom 5, and Paul seemed to be against complacency and for endurance. This is a much more difficult point to explain than it seems, but to me, staying separate and holding fast is the walk, in a nutshell. Keeping focus and belonging to our Father in Heaven, not that of earth, still, not being an adversary, not condemning, as we were shown grace. This is also a demonstration to those seeking.

That being said, I'm sad for all of those subjected to the confusion of the world. It's a hopeless place without Him, that much is abundantly clear.

I agree mostly, except  perhaps to say thaat we cannot be salt and light if we do not interact with society. Our separateness is in our love, holiness,  conduct, "so that they will see your good works and glorify God". in the world not of it.

It is sad to see the death, chaos, and hardness of this world- I agree totally. "Let there be light" saith the Lord ;o)
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: Dandelion on July 14, 2015, 01:14:59 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on July 01, 2015, 07:53:15 AM
Marriage is from God. "Male and female He created them". I dont think the government should be involved in marriage at all, beyond basic health issues, but just because the government calls a legal union between gay men or women doesnt mean it is marriage in the sight of God. It isnt. It is just a legal arrangement in the sight of man.

The proliferation of homosexuality and gender confusion among young people is a symptom of a previously existing condition.

"Because they knew Him as God and honored Him not as God they became darkened in their understanding...."

If people had been as up in arms over the heterosexual lewdness that preceded this current flood of homosexuality and the objectivism of sex apart from love all over all the media and in schools- we wouldnt be here now, and it will only get worse.

I am determined not to get caught up in this issue. There are seekers of God out there, in the highways and hedges. They need the gospel. I will hold it out for them. I can save no one, only the Father draws them. When my nation is no longer a Christian nation then I will continue to be a disciple of Jesus and a citizen of the kingdom of God- a member of His body. But there are still true believers in our country, and we can minister to our brothers and sisters as the levee breaks and the flood waters overflow.

I will do as His Spirit leads me daily. I do not feel led to address all the problems of the world. I am just called to offer the bread of life when I find one hungry, the water of life when I find one thirsty, the word in season when I find one weary on the road as I walk it in my unique life, as all our unique lives continue until they end :o)

Amen.

:iagree:
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: jabcat on July 14, 2015, 08:22:14 PM
I agree and I'm not caught up in it either.  Amen.  No marches, banners, standing on the street corner (maybe I should  :dontknow:).    I know you're not doing so EW, you're focusing on a point of salt and light, sharing the gospel with which I agree.   :thumbsup:   But I believe I pick up on an attempt to gloss things over/redirect/even deny in the OP (and other places, for sure).  So I believe we should not do that and continue to speak the truth - all of it - in love.   

Obviously there's a lot more going on and has been going on than that.  It's the flavor of the day though, front and center, and perhaps a symptom or harbinger of other things.  So I don't think we should major on it, but I also don't think it needs to be whitewashed.  I've said before, I'd be happy if it stopped coming up on the boards, but the OP is made..I thought it had died, but then popped back up.  So here we are :)
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: dajomaco on July 14, 2015, 08:31:07 PM
Ezekiel 16:49-50 declares,
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy

How many of us find ourselves over fed and unconcerned at various times.
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: jabcat on July 14, 2015, 08:35:10 PM
I can only speak for myself, so I'd say a lot - and would guess it's pretty common.   Do you think that changes other truths?
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: jabcat on July 14, 2015, 08:44:48 PM
I think someone would have to be in denial (or just ignorant of the facts) to believe there weren't other things (as Ian said, general lawlessness) going on in Sodom besides sexual perversion including active homosexual behavior.  I think someone would also have to be in denial (or just ignorant of the facts) to believe the only things going on in Sodom were things that didn't involve sexual perversion including active homosexual behavior.  All of it adding up their judgment.


Again though, this;       
Quote from: eaglesway on July 01, 2015, 07:53:15 AM
There are seekers of God out there, in the highways and hedges. They need the gospel. I will hold it out for them. I can save no one, only the Father draws them.

Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: dajomaco on July 14, 2015, 08:52:35 PM
Quote from: jabcat on July 14, 2015, 08:35:10 PM
I can only speak for myself, so I'd say a lot - and would guess it's pretty common.   Do you think that changes other truths?

No I don't think this changes other truths.

There were probably some in Sodom you weren't homosexual.

Fire and brimstone fell on them (the ones not homo ) because they were overfed and unconcerned   
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: ed on July 14, 2015, 08:56:13 PM
Quote from: dajomaco on July 14, 2015, 08:31:07 PM
Ezekiel 16:49-50 declares,
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy

How many of us find ourselves over fed and unconcerned at various times.
[sarcasm]
Yeah................We need to keep our traditional focus.[/sarcasm]

:skittles:
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: Lazarus Short on July 14, 2015, 09:40:39 PM
Quote from: jabcat on July 14, 2015, 09:27:57 AMThose who attempt to explain away the biblical condemnations of homosexuality claim that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were certainly being inhospitable.

Their sins were many and varied, but I note that the whole male population of the city did not turn out for the proposed mass rape.  Inhospitality was another of many.  The book of Jasher states that they had the custom of welcoming travelers in, then they would close the gates and refuse the travelers shelter, food, and water, until they died.  The Sodomites would then divide up the travelers' possessions.  One girl gave hospitality, as was killed for it. 
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: jabcat on July 15, 2015, 12:03:18 AM
Quote from: ed on July 14, 2015, 08:56:13 PM
Quote from: dajomaco on July 14, 2015, 08:31:07 PM
Ezekiel 16:49-50 declares,
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy

How many of us find ourselves over fed and unconcerned at various times.
[sarcasm]
Yeah................We need to keep our traditional focus.[/sarcasm]

:skittles:

After the word needy, the rest of verse is;  "They were haughty and did detestable [שֶׁ֫קֶץ sheqets] things before me..."      The fuller context and scriptural tie-in;  "the Hebrew word translated "detestable" refers to something that is morally disgusting and is the exact same word used in Leviticus 18:22 that refers to homosexuality as an "abomination." Similarly, Jude 7 declares, "...Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion."


It seems there's been a real effort in these discussions to try to be balanced, yet without caving to the current PC that is  unscriptural.  Maybe you're talking more in general, and if so, I agree that a lot of other things get left out.  Seems to me it all goes together and none of it should be dismissed.   :2c:
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: jabcat on July 15, 2015, 12:05:17 AM
Quote from: dajomaco on July 14, 2015, 08:52:35 PM
Quote from: jabcat on July 14, 2015, 08:35:10 PM
I can only speak for myself, so I'd say a lot - and would guess it's pretty common.   Do you think that changes other truths?

No I don't think this changes other truths.

There were probably some in Sodom you weren't homosexual.

Fire and brimstone fell on them (the ones not homo ) because they were overfed and unconcerned

Thanks, I agree.  Sounds like it was a general cesspool.  I know things were horrible during the Roman rule too (Nero, etc.) so it makes me wonder how bad things have to get/how much God will "put up with", etc...only He knows, in the meantime we trust.   :Pray:
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: jabcat on July 15, 2015, 12:10:14 AM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on July 14, 2015, 09:40:39 PM
Quote from: jabcat on July 14, 2015, 09:27:57 AMThose who attempt to explain away the biblical condemnations of homosexuality claim that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were certainly being inhospitable.

Their sins were many and varied

I think you're right.  Honestly, this whole discussion has helped me to realize just how much so.  It wasn't just one thing, and they all "count". 
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: ian on July 16, 2015, 05:52:41 AM
I'd like to make a couple of quick, related points, that pertain to much of current thought/culture. When people bring up these ideas in the public, I feel that they are often misrepresented or otherwise diminished in meaning. I too take these ideas seriously, but when one is driven in to the ground, things get overlooked. Hope this helps someone.

1)Abraham petitioned for the people of Sodom and God told him it would not be ruined if 10... 10 righteous people were found within!!!

There are righteous all around the world. For that reason I wouldn't equate Sodom/Gomorrah to much. Their destruction was a kindness, imo.

2)Romans 1 provides such great insight for how the world works around you. From my perspective, the single most relevant thing in it to current western culture (and this topic) is this: "...not only are doing them, but are endorsing, also, those who are committing them." Evil is always present, but when it walks in the daylight... and recruits, and campaigns...

Isa 5:20 Woe to those who are calling evil, good, and good, evil, placing darkness for light, and light for darkness, placing bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter.  --- sounds familiar to me.

2)Abraham petitioned for the people of Sodom and God told him it would not be ruined if 10... 10 righteous people were found within!!!

There are righteous all around the world. For that reason I wouldn't equate Sodom/Gomorrah to much. Their destruction was a kindness, imo.
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: eaglesway on July 16, 2015, 06:21:08 AM
Quote from: jabcat on July 15, 2015, 12:10:14 AM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on July 14, 2015, 09:40:39 PM
Quote from: jabcat on July 14, 2015, 09:27:57 AMThose who attempt to explain away the biblical condemnations of homosexuality claim that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were certainly being inhospitable.

Their sins were many and varied

I think you're right.  Honestly, this whole discussion has helped me to realize just how much so.  It wasn't just one thing, and they all "count".

A major difference between Sodom and Gomorrah and the USA is, as Ian pointed out, that there were not 10 righteous people found among  them in S and G.. Because of the press and the media, we forget that our country is split on issues such as this on a much wider margin, something like 75% for and 25% against. Even considering that among that 25% many may not be considerred as "righteous", you are still talking  about a percentage of  over 60 million people who are perhaps "righteous"'. But if even  only 25 % of those against gay marriage are among those whom the Lordd considers "rrighteous, you are talkiing about 15 million people, minimum. Among the sins that Sodom and Gomorrah   as convicted by the words of Ezekiel - obesity/consumption/indifference to the needy/ arrogance- these are sins of which much of America is guitly- which may be why we are seeing what we are seeing now. Those sins have been manifest in our national personality for a while now, altho americans have traditionally given more to charity and relief around the world than all other nations combined. I am not so much making a point about anything other than that these things seem simple when looked at through the prissmm of one or two verses, but things are not always as sple a we think. romanss one and two has as much to say about judging others as about the sins we judge them for, and we might recall that Jesus was judged a sinner for having fellowship with sinners- but those sinners were being converted through that fellowship- not because Jesus approved any sin, but because He genuinely loved the sinners.

While we discuss the issue of sin and what is sin and how to deal with it, I feel led to periodically  mention that Jesus loved sinners into the kingdom, and mostly reserved His words about aonian kolassis for the powerful among the "church/synagogue" and the government. He DEFinitely categorized judgment as an issue of practical love.... "I was hungry  and you fed me"- as the parable of the Samritan man vs. the Pharisee and the Levite also emphasizes.
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: rosered on July 16, 2015, 12:52:50 PM
 
I wake up with   "refreshing "  . its weird I know , but this is how I know  the Lord is with me and still dealing with me personally and  not loose heart .or give up

  the Word today was   simply "  what  that IS  not of faith is sin ."..  and  not to long ago it was ," without faith it is impossible to please  God'' ..

  I goes right along with what you are saying   here .


I love     the Holy Spirit /witness [  plural]  more than one , and yet ONE ... in being  gathered already  in God though Jesus Christ [HolyOne / annointed  incorruptible  seed /Word   made flesh

How can you make GODS Word flesh ?He spoke it into being[ substance ]   and  everything was Made that was not made   yet  , but now is made

And the Big clue  is what Jesus said.........being Spirit and made flesh [substance ]   from non substance  , but faith   which is knowing without the substance/proof   yet

Jesus said man  wont live by or on bread [from heaven   alone  , but every WORD that proceeds[or comes forth out of ]  out of the mouth of God

  that is to make it  a substance  /a proof and reality from  something that is already known  by His Wisdom /intelligence

So the Spirit makes known  a reality , so whatever comes  to be said by  GODS  desire and pleasure and  judgment   , will come to fruition and , come to pass
  what was not   known  will be known   , by what you experience   and is a reality   substance   that was spoken   into being   , when you go though it     , you will know it    from that point on    ,      but  though that struggle   and by faith  , knowing   though the Spirit  , it come and it passes  , just as it come into being   ,  and  it  goes  with more     than what was , before     your faith was exercised   or put to the test    ..

   This is the proof  of the fruit  produced     ,  being one or the other   , or both even   one is corruption / ruin  the other   being is incorruption  and cannot be ruined  , but made more  solid  or whole    more  complete ..      less lacking


I believe this may sound strange to some  of you  all  , but when the   carnal   part of myself and only using this as a example   of a personal  proof ..

  When that  carnal  part goes to sleep or unconscious  , less active  ,  the  Holy Spirit   come much more active   and  speaks to my own spirit   in  quiet  rest

Because the  troubles  and this lifes  struggles    we pray to God about  just before  nodding off at night , speaking by faith   to Him , opens up something within us , that I honestly  did not have  a good portion of  my earthly  existence[many years]       without    His peace , I call it   Jesus peace 
   because  , I honestly rest in it better , than before Jesus come  and gave it to me ,  us  etc.. some may know exactly what I am saying here.... 
Before I just   had no peace or rest , but    battled with a lot of  tormenting thoughts  , that some would call     sin sickness  or  some would  call  mental illness   of fear  and torment of not knowing  God or  rest or Jesus peace           Mostly it   was  worry,    the opposite of faith   ,   In my opinion ..

  I am under the impression   that it is the secret  sins of the heart    that God exposes     to keep us from going into    corruption   which  is  destruction

Job was  what helped me to see what was going on , before I ever read it , i Knew it    because it spoke  in my heart making it a living Word     , not some dead letters that had no effect on me personally    ,     https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=job+33+&version=NLT


When we share our personal   experiences  with one another    and struggles , being honest   and truthful  ,   to me , and   this is just my  understanding  of  how God deals with us   on all levels    of spiritual growth and understanding  , when we read     the results  of them examples  set before us  in Sodom and Gomorrah

  knowing now that what they did not know then , that if God had not left us  a seed / Christ the anointed and incorruptible ONE SEED       to be planted in our hearts by GODS WORD   we also would be   no better off than they were   when it come to judgment   and how it will be more tolerable/ willing to put up with    / more accepted   for Sodom and Gomorrah   than for us      when it comes to judgment    ,    because we do have   the seed and   the knowledge and the warning  and the proof     and grace   etc      , in other words NO EXCUSES !   every mouth will be stopped     , and speechless   and  put to  silence ...all flesh will be quiet  BEFORE GOD , so the SPIRIT CAN SPEAK  TRUTH ...

  and the shame of our nakedness   , or sinful state  is exposed   for what it is  before God   just like Adam was.

GOD   speaks and it come to pass   and  no man /Adam knows it  , But the    Christ in you and hope of Glory though the  faith believing  and knowing your Father in heaven and  honoring Him and loving   relationship    of the Father  though the Son   is what   Jesus Christ  come to show us the way it is done  perfectly   and we Love them because   they loved us first  before we ever   even knew them    ...

    :HeartThrob:   
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: Adam harris on July 18, 2015, 04:19:41 AM
Quote from: Dandelion on July 01, 2015, 05:53:04 AM
Yes, you could say it that way, jabcat, I suppose.  :declare:

Moral of the story: Don't look back!    :gimpossible:

Well, actually it is more to the tune of 'Obey'. But, I do think there is a message here, about looking back to what we are told to let go of. Except for healing purposes, sometimes, when God says to move on, it is time to let go and embrace the next part of our adventure.

Philippians 3:

12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus....

D.


I have problems looking back all the time. I'm new here will you pray that I loose the concept of looking back and help me stop looking back. Please it's ruining my life cause I look back at when I was sexually molested..i look back at when I was considered an outcast a freak...a weirdo...please pray it stops...it's taking me to hell!
Title: Re: I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49
Post by: Dandelion on July 18, 2015, 05:01:19 AM
Hey, Adam.

I understand about looking back. I have a story, too.

It is not easy to let go of all those very difficult memories, I think, especially, when they dominated your life.

But, if we are filled with the past, we have no room for the present. And, we will probably miss so many moments of joy, grace and growth, if we keep looking back.

Remember, nothing that happened to us can make us believe something about ourselves, unless we allow it to.

This poem/prayer helps me a lot. It is attributed to Mother Teresa, and I will post it for you, here.

Mother Teresa's Anyway Poem

People are often unreasonable, illogical and self centered;
Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.

What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.

Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you've got anyway.

You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and your God;
It was never between you and them anyway.


We all answer to God.....we need not or should not answer to people, except to respect them; be kind to them and 'give to Caesar what is Caesar's'. 

We cannot look to people for our identity....nor in our power, money, possessions or any other thing or person........it is only in our God that we find that, particularly, in Jesus, who came to earth to give us 'the way, the truth, and the life'.

Paul taught us about our burdens, that we carry here, on earth.

2 Corinthians 12:8-10New International Version (NIV)

8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. 2 Corinthians 12: 8 - 10

God is our strength. We cannot do it ourselves, but in Him, we are strong.

I will keep you in my prayers, Adam.

:2c: