I thot an investigation of Sodom would be appropriate. Ezekiel 16:49

[jabcat]

Those who attempt to explain away the biblical condemnations of homosexuality claim that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were certainly being inhospitable.

Their sins were many and varied

I think you're right.  Honestly, this whole discussion has helped me to realize just how much so.  It wasn't just one thing, and they all "count". 

[ian]

I'd like to make a couple of quick, related points, that pertain to much of current thought/culture. When people bring up these ideas in the public, I feel that they are often misrepresented or otherwise diminished in meaning. I too take these ideas seriously, but when one is driven in to the ground, things get overlooked. Hope this helps someone.

1)Abraham petitioned for the people of Sodom and God told him it would not be ruined if 10... 10 righteous people were found within!!!

There are righteous all around the world. For that reason I wouldn't equate Sodom/Gomorrah to much. Their destruction was a kindness, imo.

2)Romans 1 provides such great insight for how the world works around you. From my perspective, the single most relevant thing in it to current western culture (and this topic) is this: "...not only are doing them, but are endorsing, also, those who are committing them." Evil is always present, but when it walks in the daylight... and recruits, and campaigns...

Isa 5:20 Woe to those who are calling evil, good, and good, evil, placing darkness for light, and light for darkness, placing bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter.  --- sounds familiar to me.

2)Abraham petitioned for the people of Sodom and God told him it would not be ruined if 10... 10 righteous people were found within!!!

There are righteous all around the world. For that reason I wouldn't equate Sodom/Gomorrah to much. Their destruction was a kindness, imo.

[eaglesway]

Those who attempt to explain away the biblical condemnations of homosexuality claim that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were certainly being inhospitable.

Their sins were many and varied

I think you're right.  Honestly, this whole discussion has helped me to realize just how much so.  It wasn't just one thing, and they all "count".

A major difference between Sodom and Gomorrah and the USA is, as Ian pointed out, that there were not 10 righteous people found among  them in S and G.. Because of the press and the media, we forget that our country is split on issues such as this on a much wider margin, something like 75% for and 25% against. Even considering that among that 25% many may not be considerred as "righteous", you are still talking  about a percentage of  over 60 million people who are perhaps "righteous"'. But if even  only 25 % of those against gay marriage are among those whom the Lordd considers "rrighteous, you are talkiing about 15 million people, minimum. Among the sins that Sodom and Gomorrah   as convicted by the words of Ezekiel - obesity/consumption/indifference to the needy/ arrogance- these are sins of which much of America is guitly- which may be why we are seeing what we are seeing now. Those sins have been manifest in our national personality for a while now, altho americans have traditionally given more to charity and relief around the world than all other nations combined. I am not so much making a point about anything other than that these things seem simple when looked at through the prissmm of one or two verses, but things are not always as sple a we think. romanss one and two has as much to say about judging others as about the sins we judge them for, and we might recall that Jesus was judged a sinner for having fellowship with sinners- but those sinners were being converted through that fellowship- not because Jesus approved any sin, but because He genuinely loved the sinners.

While we discuss the issue of sin and what is sin and how to deal with it, I feel led to periodically  mention that Jesus loved sinners into the kingdom, and mostly reserved His words about aonian kolassis for the powerful among the "church/synagogue" and the government. He DEFinitely categorized judgment as an issue of practical love.... "I was hungry  and you fed me"- as the parable of the Samritan man vs. the Pharisee and the Levite also emphasizes.

[rosered]

 
I wake up with   "refreshing "  . its weird I know , but this is how I know  the Lord is with me and still dealing with me personally and  not loose heart .or give up

  the Word today was   simply "  what  that IS  not of faith is sin ."..  and  not to long ago it was ," without faith it is impossible to please  God'' ..

  I goes right along with what you are saying   here .


I love     the Holy Spirit /witness [  plural]  more than one , and yet ONE ... in being  gathered already  in God though Jesus Christ [HolyOne / annointed  incorruptible  seed /Word   made flesh

How can you make GODS Word flesh ?He spoke it into being[ substance ]   and  everything was Made that was not made   yet  , but now is made

And the Big clue  is what Jesus said.........being Spirit and made flesh [substance ]   from non substance  , but faith   which is knowing without the substance/proof   yet

Jesus said man  wont live by or on bread [from heaven   alone  , but every WORD that proceeds[or comes forth out of ]  out of the mouth of God

  that is to make it  a substance  /a proof and reality from  something that is already known  by His Wisdom /intelligence

So the Spirit makes known  a reality , so whatever comes  to be said by  GODS  desire and pleasure and  judgment   , will come to fruition and , come to pass
  what was not   known  will be known   , by what you experience   and is a reality   substance   that was spoken   into being   , when you go though it     , you will know it    from that point on    ,      but  though that struggle   and by faith  , knowing   though the Spirit  , it come and it passes  , just as it come into being   ,  and  it  goes  with more     than what was , before     your faith was exercised   or put to the test    ..

   This is the proof  of the fruit  produced     ,  being one or the other   , or both even   one is corruption / ruin  the other   being is incorruption  and cannot be ruined  , but made more  solid  or whole    more  complete ..      less lacking


I believe this may sound strange to some  of you  all  , but when the   carnal   part of myself and only using this as a example   of a personal  proof ..

  When that  carnal  part goes to sleep or unconscious  , less active  ,  the  Holy Spirit   come much more active   and  speaks to my own spirit   in  quiet  rest

Because the  troubles  and this lifes  struggles    we pray to God about  just before  nodding off at night , speaking by faith   to Him , opens up something within us , that I honestly  did not have  a good portion of  my earthly  existence[many years]       without    His peace , I call it   Jesus peace 
   because  , I honestly rest in it better , than before Jesus come  and gave it to me ,  us  etc.. some may know exactly what I am saying here.... 
Before I just   had no peace or rest , but    battled with a lot of  tormenting thoughts  , that some would call     sin sickness  or  some would  call  mental illness   of fear  and torment of not knowing  God or  rest or Jesus peace           Mostly it   was  worry,    the opposite of faith   ,   In my opinion ..

  I am under the impression   that it is the secret  sins of the heart    that God exposes     to keep us from going into    corruption   which  is  destruction

Job was  what helped me to see what was going on , before I ever read it , i Knew it    because it spoke  in my heart making it a living Word     , not some dead letters that had no effect on me personally    ,     https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=job+33+&version=NLT


When we share our personal   experiences  with one another    and struggles , being honest   and truthful  ,   to me , and   this is just my  understanding  of  how God deals with us   on all levels    of spiritual growth and understanding  , when we read     the results  of them examples  set before us  in Sodom and Gomorrah

  knowing now that what they did not know then , that if God had not left us  a seed / Christ the anointed and incorruptible ONE SEED       to be planted in our hearts by GODS WORD   we also would be   no better off than they were   when it come to judgment   and how it will be more tolerable/ willing to put up with    / more accepted   for Sodom and Gomorrah   than for us      when it comes to judgment    ,    because we do have   the seed and   the knowledge and the warning  and the proof     and grace   etc      , in other words NO EXCUSES !   every mouth will be stopped     , and speechless   and  put to  silence ...all flesh will be quiet  BEFORE GOD , so the SPIRIT CAN SPEAK  TRUTH ...

  and the shame of our nakedness   , or sinful state  is exposed   for what it is  before God   just like Adam was.

GOD   speaks and it come to pass   and  no man /Adam knows it  , But the    Christ in you and hope of Glory though the  faith believing  and knowing your Father in heaven and  honoring Him and loving   relationship    of the Father  though the Son   is what   Jesus Christ  come to show us the way it is done  perfectly   and we Love them because   they loved us first  before we ever   even knew them    ...

    :HeartThrob:   

[Adam harris]

Yes, you could say it that way, jabcat, I suppose.  :declare:

Moral of the story: Don't look back!    :gimpossible:

Well, actually it is more to the tune of 'Obey'. But, I do think there is a message here, about looking back to what we are told to let go of. Except for healing purposes, sometimes, when God says to move on, it is time to let go and embrace the next part of our adventure.

Philippians 3:

12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus....

D.

I have problems looking back all the time. I'm new here will you pray that I loose the concept of looking back and help me stop looking back. Please it's ruining my life cause I look back at when I was sexually molested..i look back at when I was considered an outcast a freak...a weirdo...please pray it stops...it's taking me to hell!

[Dandelion]

Hey, Adam.

I understand about looking back. I have a story, too.

It is not easy to let go of all those very difficult memories, I think, especially, when they dominated your life.

But, if we are filled with the past, we have no room for the present. And, we will probably miss so many moments of joy, grace and growth, if we keep looking back.

Remember, nothing that happened to us can make us believe something about ourselves, unless we allow it to.

This poem/prayer helps me a lot. It is attributed to Mother Teresa, and I will post it for you, here.

Mother Teresa's Anyway Poem

People are often unreasonable, illogical and self centered;
Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.

What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.

Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you've got anyway.

You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and your God;
It was never between you and them anyway.


We all answer to God.....we need not or should not answer to people, except to respect them; be kind to them and 'give to Caesar what is Caesar's'. 

We cannot look to people for our identity....nor in our power, money, possessions or any other thing or person........it is only in our God that we find that, particularly, in Jesus, who came to earth to give us 'the way, the truth, and the life'.

Paul taught us about our burdens, that we carry here, on earth.

2 Corinthians 12:8-10New International Version (NIV)

8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. 2 Corinthians 12: 8 - 10

God is our strength. We cannot do it ourselves, but in Him, we are strong.

I will keep you in my prayers, Adam.

:2c: