Hello,I'm Hummingbird.I want to start by saying that I am not sure about Universal Salvation;there are scriptural verses that seem to support it and others that support being thrown into the Lake of Fire.I don't want to believe that people will be eternally cast into Hell or not exist but I also believe that it could happen.Thanks for reading my post.
Greetings! Hope your stay goes well.
Just one thing to think on, that God is Love. what does that look like to you? Would you think that any loving parent would throw their children into a torture chamber, or annihilate them? God is called our Father, and He loves us far more than any human can.
Why would you think that it is even possible? Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13 that Love keeps no record of wrongs, and elsewhere says that Love covers a multitude of sins. Doesn't sound like what the church teaches at all.
Quote from: MusicLover123 on October 06, 2018, 12:35:48 AM
Just one thing to think on, that God is Love. what does that look like to you? Would you think that any loving parent would throw their children into a torture chamber, or annihilate them? God is called our Father, and He loves us far more than any human can.
Why would you think that it is even possible? Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13 that Love keeps no record of wrongs, and elsewhere says that Love covers a multitude of sins. Doesn't sound like what the church teaches at all.
Different churches teach different things.
Orthodox view of Salvation - Steve Robinson
https://youtu.be/WosgwLekgn8
Quote from: DavidFord on October 06, 2018, 05:10:08 AM
Quote from: MusicLover123 on October 06, 2018, 12:35:48 AM
Just one thing to think on, that God is Love. what does that look like to you? Would you think that any loving parent would throw their children into a torture chamber, or annihilate them? God is called our Father, and He loves us far more than any human can.
Why would you think that it is even possible? Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13 that Love keeps no record of wrongs, and elsewhere says that Love covers a multitude of sins. Doesn't sound like what the church teaches at all.
Different churches teach different things.
The Gospel According to Chairs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZrsbCK5Hrg
Wow I love it!!
And welcome Hummingbird!
:welcome: :gsmile: :dsunny:
Quote from: Hummingbird on October 05, 2018, 10:29:41 PM
Hello,I'm Hummingbird.I want to start by saying that I am not sure about Universal Salvation;there are scriptural verses that seem to support it and others that support being thrown into the Lake of Fire.I don't want to believe that people will be eternally cast into Hell or not exist but I also believe that it could happen.Thanks for reading my post.
I think "He can destroy both soul/psyche and body in Gehenna fire" as earthly judgment(s). Also as after life conclusion (or as afterlife correction, the "lake" being a crucible of refinement) but I don't believe He will as Jesus said He will draw all to Himself, John 12:32. I don't really find anywhere, where it says "after death no hope" but figure "dying in ones sins" simply equates to rising (initially) still in ones sins.. Interlinear study often shows translators choosing the most extreme use of a word, or sometimes, outright running with a verse.
And because of these things we assume that for many Jesus didn't pay the price, the price being 'hell' - when the bible says the wages/result of sin is death, and Jesus paid that.. just like 1 Cor. 15:22-28 says, "just as in Adam all die, in the same way all in Jesus will live, but each in their own order.. those at Jesus' return.. and then (at) the 'end'.. when God becomes all in all".
This is a great place to explore the idea of a gospel that outrageously glorifies God! ...He being "perfect" how can the 'end' result of all this be anything less than the best one possible? And as another sister here has pointed out "
God is love" and "
love never fails"! (1Jn.4:8; 1Cor.13:8)
:HeartThrob: :girlheart: God bless!
Hello Hummingbird and WELCOME
For me, the Lake of Fire is our "baptism by fire" it is our baptism into the Holy Spirit
and ALL will be cast into this "baptism by fire"
for it is only by being cast into this "Lake of Fire" (this Baptism) that we are shown that His love for us IS HIS burning passion for us to know how much He loves us
and if we do not believe this, then we can torture ourselves with our own unbelief that we are not loved
and hell can and will become a place of eternal torment; a place of on-going unbelief
and it is "this hell" that He is saving us from
All good things come from above and I fully believe that this comes from above :2c:
Quote from: jugghead on October 07, 2018, 02:36:45 PM
Hello Hummingbird and WELCOME
For me, the Lake of Fire is our "baptism by fire" it is our baptism into the Holy Spirit
and ALL will be cast into this "baptism by fire"
for it is only by being cast into this "Lake of Fire" (this Baptism) that we are shown that His love for us IS HIS burning passion for us to know how much He loves us
and if we do not believe this, then we can torture ourselves with our own unbelief that we are not loved
and hell can and will become a place of eternal torment; a place of on-going unbelief
and it is "this hell" that He is saving us from
All good things come from above and I fully believe that this comes from above :2c:
Rick, be sure to add this to "Tidbits"
Hummingbird, welcome!
WELCOME, HUMMINGBIRD!
Keep in mind that "Hell" is a word foreign to both the Hebrew and Greek languages. It comes from the languages of north pagan Europe, specifically from "Hel," the Norse goddess of Helheim (House of Hel), where they supposed you went if you did not rate going to Valhalla. :doh:
Hell replaced four other words, sheol, hades, gehenna and tartarus, none of which referred to a place of eternal, conscious torment. :dunno2:
Bad theology breeds bad translation and bad translation breeds bad theology. :flamebreath:
Yes, but also keep in mind that what we say is more than the words we use. Knowing that 'Hell' has Norse roots is not enough to show that because the word is non-Biblical the concept is non-Biblical. If Gehenna means something akin to what Hell is taken to mean when the word comes from doesn't matter. Only the truth of the concept matters.
Welcome, Hummingbird. This does not mean I am defending Hell, I just don't think fallacious reasoning serves us very well.
Well said. Similarly, I think of the different metaphors in which Christ explains what the Kingdom of God is like – and that is the point I think: How does one explain a reality that is not of the earth, to minds accustomed to viewing only earthly things? It seems that the only way is to use the tools available to the mind and hope that the exercise can somehow expand the understanding so that it is a little closer to the reality.
Welcome Hummingbird. May I say that to simply look to Christ in everything is all that is needed, because doing so heartily will prove to be the answer to everything - including removal of the fear caused by the doctrines of men that attempt to literalise spiritual reality.
Thanks, lastpost. The downside to that is that some of Christ's Kingdom of God parables do seem to suggest UR. But also a fair few of them seem to suggest ET or ED to many people. UR is the last thing they seem to mean then.
Fortunately the Bible overall does support UR, Hallelujah!
Quote from: CST on October 11, 2018, 03:55:22 PM
Thanks, lastpost. The downside to that is that some of Christ's Kingdom of God parables do seem to suggest UR. But also a fair few of them seem to suggest ET or ED to many people. UR is the last thing they seem to mean then.
Fortunately the Bible overall does support UR, Hallelujah!
:thumbsup:
Welcome. The lake of fire is a place where light consumes darkness, "For everything that is hidden will be brought to light"
Light is fire to darkness, like the fire in Jesus eyes(rev 1:4) whose face is like the sun shining in its strength.
Jesus calls the lake of fire is the ""second death"...... 1 Cor 15:23-28 says that death will be the last enemy abolished/anulled/destroyed and God will be "all in all".
At any rate, Wonderful to have you here. I hope you find some answers in your search.
Quote from: GodIsLove on October 11, 2018, 05:31:24 PM
Quote from: CST on October 11, 2018, 03:55:22 PM
Thanks, lastpost. The downside to that is that some of Christ's Kingdom of God parables do seem to suggest UR. But also a fair few of them seem to suggest ET or ED to many people. UR is the last thing they seem to mean then.
Fortunately the Bible overall does support UR, Hallelujah!
:thumbsup:
Thank you!
Quote from: eaglesway on October 12, 2018, 08:30:36 AM
Welcome. The lake of fire is a place where light consumes darkness, "For everything that is hidden will be brought to light"
Light is fire to darkness, like the fire in Jesus eyes(rev 1:4) whose face is like the sun shining in its strength.
Jesus calls the lake of fire is the ""second death"...... 1 Cor 15:23-28 says that death will be the last enemy abolished/anulled/destroyed and God will be "all in all".
At any rate, Wonderful to have you here. I hope you find some answers in your search.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
And here's a GREAT place to start! :2thumbs:
77 Ultimate Reconciliation and Renewal Scriptureshttp://tentmaker.org/forum/rules-and-faq/77-ultimate-reconciliation-and-renewal-scriptures/msg118063/#msg118063
And there's lots of great articles and even books on this site (Tentmaker dot org) which can help to point us to other verses and also to the implied UR weaved throughout God's Word like a golden thread.. His love!
:Peace2: God bless!
:cloud9: Welcome Hummingbird. I'm sure you will find much here to satisfy your soul. Be blessed on your journey. :friendstu: