Hello everyone. I am new to the whole universal salvation idea, not that I have never been fond of it, but never really thinking about what I said I believed. I can't say that I am at this time a universalist, but I so desire for it to be true. To make a long story short, I believe that this is something that deserves serious testing and prodding (at least of my own) before I can say that I believe it entirely. Anyways...
The point of getting on here and rambling is because I can't sleep and am looking for answers. I started reading George MacDonald in the past month and one of the things he said (somewhere) has been stuck in my mind like corn in one's teeth. He, in essence, questioned the whole idea of the "atonement" of Jesus because it didn't make sense to him. And his argument, to me, is pretty valid. So here is the question: how could an infinitely just God be satisfied with punishing sin when the one receiving the punishment is innocent? First off, (now these are George MacDonald's arguments that I can't answer myself) no decent, or what we would think is a decent, human judge would be satisfied with a criminal getting off while an innocent man getting a life sentence in his place. So if God is incredibly more just, loving, merciful...(don't want to name all of his character traits right now) how can he be worse than a decent human being by being satisfied or appeased by the punishment of an innocent for the guilty to remove sin? But the problem lies in the verses of scripture that say that Jesus "died for our sins", "died for the sins of the world", "who bore our transgressions...received our punishment". How can one reconcile those two? It seems to me that one is a matter of heart and the other head. The heart longs to believe God is like a father more than a judge, that justice is not served when innocent are punished for those who've done wrong, where the punishment DOES fit the crime (not an eternity in hell for lying or stealing) and those verses that point to Jesus "dying for, or maybe we could insert 'because of', our sins".
Any clarification on this point would be excellent. Thanks.
Wow, I love your question! It is very honest and insightful.
This has been a year of having my mind blown and I have had the suspicion for a few months that the biggest paradigm shift is still to come and that it will center around the meaning and significance of Christ's death and resurrection. I've been hesitant to even start to think about it because there is so much else I'm thinking about and reading, including UR. However I know it is the ultimate issue I will wind up wrestling with and I have this gut feeling that a more thorough understanding of UR is somehow a necessary step or building block.
Anyway, I don't know how deep the rabbit hole goes, but I think this guy gets it started in the right direction. The series of articles is called "Penal Substitution vs. Christus Victor" and it is an excellent read guaranteed to get you thinking. It kind of strikes at the heart of typical evangelical and catholic teaching regarding the nature of Christ's work. I think you were spot on to say "one is a matter of heart and the other head" and this guy says as much. Hope you find it helpful!:
http://sharktacos.com/God/cross_intro.shtml
SteveW
His ways are not man's ways. Adam was separated from God. If you die separated from God you will return to dust. Christ was our stand-in, in this life, and reconciled us to the Father so that when our bodies give up the breath we can continue on to the father because apart from God there is "NO LIFE". Understand this, that Christ was slain from the foundations of the world. From Gods perspective, he "was" the first Adam.
Reason this. What gives all things life? The Father. What is the Father? The Father is mind. We are made in the image of God so our mind gives life to spirit but our mind is sustained by the body which will die. When the body dies the spirit will also... unless we are in Christ who is in the Father. How are we in Christ? Through his atonement we have been spared separation.
Who among you, when your child asks for bread, would give him a snake instead? If you know how to give good things to your children then how much more will the Father give the (Holy Spirit and life) to those who are his children.
You forget that we are Gods children. Who among you would condemn their own child and would not give up their own life for them? With God, substitutions are allowed.