I should really of titled it through darkness deep he reveals his mysteries
Ironically it is from here your forum God confirmed all that I recieved from last January through the revelations shown below in my story.
It is in the natural darkness i have always recieved my most powerful encounters with God, I dont want the word powerful to ever take away the truth which was usually ended up with my pillow soaked in tears or recieving his love Was on my bed in the dark I got saved in 1994 i still remember the day & the date, Iv'e always recored my dates like that so that when testifying it can be recieved more powerfully, You will see that from my story below which was JAnuary 25th and the dayts around that date which revealed to me so much. Iv'e added the more detail here from which i hadnt added on the welcome thread just incase anyone was re reading ;)
last Jan when 1 night God's power came on me & he revelead things to me, having just lost a friend young at 32 to brain cancer (the story kind of centres around him as an example of God's outstretched arm to the unsaved salvation of all), I Knew Dean through his brother in a Christian football team i used to manage for the sake of sharing Jesus in a Christian football league, Dean was married only 7 months before he passed away, At his wedding it was very dramatic as we watched him dancing with his wife knowing too well he had not long left, We all knowing this too watching on was heart shattering, friends hugging him after his dance, tears in the eyes all that, u could not believe it was happening, This was complete & utter tragicness, Darkness yes BIG TIME, He didn't even get to see christmas in December with his family, He had a child too, the whole football team of friends went to his funeral & heard about Jesus in the church, Was the only way them guys were gonna get to a church cause they never were ever very interested in GOd really so it appeared, THis 1 night I can only remember been meditative on my bed in the dark, I was praying something cant remember what, thinking lots & the power of GOd came on me, my eyes flickered & my fingers too, it became so much i was breathing quite heavy, but all was well, It just was so much i naturally breathed quite heavy, I remember just before this thinking about Dean in anguish & as the power was one me it hit me like a bolt of lightning, the moment i said to Dean at a BBQ leading up to his death "you know im a christian & if you ever wanted to talk to me about the Hope that we have in Christ HOPE (AS I FELT LED TO POINT OUT THE WORD "HOPE" that was God's desire not mine, I remember seeing his face when I mentioned the word hope, It was as if for a moment he came back to his dreadful reality that he was trying to surpress bless him or believe wasn't happening & things were gonna be ok, But I will never forget his face, keeping in mind Dean had heard about Jesus & God through his time in the Christian football team (The Christ church hornets, God revealed like so clear on my bed in that moment of hearing about Christ & hope something happened within him, I could hardly believe it, but I knew it Dean was with Jesus, he was ok, ( I still at that point believed in a eternal hell more or less but I could not believe it Dean is with GOD, It's all i kept gettin, hard to decribe but like God assured me about it almost? I was sooo excited I just wanted to run out the front door & share it to someone that knew him, I wanted to run to church the next morning burst open the doors & share this joy & go to the front & testify Dean is with God, with Jesus & he is ok, ) I claimed I was in the 7th heaven shortly after while it was going on whatever the 7th heaven is? lol! It was so real & enpowering yet gentle & his Glory tangeable i thought the end had actually come & my spirit was about to leave my body at any point, It is impossible to word it, but it was great it was so real i looked at my book case & said to the LOrd oh I will miss my books Lord, :O
This was like 5am My family freaked out & didnt know what to do, They said whats goin on whats happenin, look at him! Was hard for them, BUt I was just in marvel as I had to go down to the living room to get on my knees in the middle of the room it was so powerful, I quaked yet was never out of control, it had felt as if I was walking in Ecstasy is the only way i can describe it, My walking was slow but I felt his love so much, I rested like a baby in his presence, for a week I slept no more than 3 hours a day as his presence was my life source, some of the things he showed me that week are things you talk of here I didn't know it until this Januray the 21st, BUt I knew when I read your sharings & insight God was restoring allll back to himself, When I had went downstairs caught up I proclaimed as my family had woken up in shock ppl I loved & anguished (worried about alll my Christian life) he showed me Geoff will be ok , I said mom!! James's mom will be saved, And Aco my Japanese friend too Aco she will be ok Mom, God showed me in that instant certain loved ones he knew i cared about THIS IS THE SALVATION OF ALL WHICH U BELIEVE Until i learnt what iv'e learnt here ON THE 21st I questioned that a bit but now I believe with all my heart & with tears in my eyes even now I know more than ever GOD IS LOVE :HeartThrob:
I testified to my unbelieving friends that any GOd of love in such circumstances would intervine & would not stand aside & do nothing, God was there at the funeral the KIng of love swooped in & I BELIEVE WITH ALL MY HEART NOW HE DID JUST THAT I was sending the messages to his friends the following morning Dean is with Jesus now! He's ok!!! He is saved!!! some of them suffered the tradegy alot more than i as they were closer to him, Mark 1 friend had woken up one night he said just staring into the Dark in his room, 2 of them immidietly came round to see me as they knew deep down i think something was goin on here & its not just Mark going crazy, they remember my day of been born again how I had changed & Chris has always beleived in Jesus & what iv'e ever shared to him, While all this was goin on God was showing me his great favour on these lads, which he'd been reaching out too & though they didnt fall on there knees confessing Jesus is Lord I witnessed in them a great awakening, 1 was especially moved & he said but how could Jesus love me im just nothing, THe grace was clearly more & more so at his words, God showed me as I met one of there mothers his amazing love & that many ppl i knew who were not singing pretty Songs to him every sunday in church with hearts far from him were closer to his favour than they it seemed? THe fruit from this experience proved true as a mini revival was starting to happen in the church I was attending, THe HS was moving unsaved were coming in by spontanious happenings but sadly as u all know too well, it was quenched out as the pastor was taking control & at the same time opposing Israel in a way that caused 10 ppl to walk out leading up to when I was there.
They have only ever grieved his spirit churchs i knew & never gave headhsip to christ & here you are a perfect example i'd say of God showing his slavation to ALLLLLLLL whether they quite broke through or not, well I loved my non beleiving friends more than ever knowing GOd loves them with such love desiring to fellowship with them, Wanting to be there friend of friends, I no longer saw them so much as the heathen but a CHOSEN PEOPLE amennn :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :HeartThrob:
end note since then the Lord led me to the Quaker building in Philadelphia last year by pure spontaneous chance & caused me to read William penns writings, GEorge Fox (noting thee quakers today do not all believe what the QUakers of old did) Universalism is what iv'e been taught of the Lord since & naturally I named my online facebook group that I serve in "Simple church universal one in spirit" 1 Shepherd 1 King of all
Hi battleaxe.
I also came to UR through direct revelation in a vision. I love your excitement as it brings me back to that time. It's amazing how quickly something like that can fade. Not that I've forgotten but its not that new excitement. Thanks for sharing
Awesome testimony to His great love!
Yes & thankyou, I know how you feel I do wish too it wil come back as marvelous as it was then, Such memories never go away & you can't prove them to another but you know in your noah lol!, We can be excited now still & I think God works it for us that we can be & when he draws close we experience again the marvellous light :banana: :dsunny:
Have you shared your testimony of revelation vision? (RH magma) Im glad to be here now it's a reward in this life now to get the knowledge & wider truth that sets us free :HeartThrob:
Sadly some who profess him struggle to believe God can do such things which are beyond our imagination, Even though Paul was caught up in the heavens & was transported in the spirit & what not...God is supernatural it is silly to deny the power & possibilities
Beautiful testimony! :HeartThrob:
it's a crying shame that men won't allow the Holy spirit to teach...........
Yes. I think much of it comes from fear. I know in the Baptist church tongues are looked upon as coming from the devil basically. (I used to be a part of the Baptist church.) In fact any kind of supernatural experience is generally looked at as being from the devil. I could never understand it... looking at the scriptures you would think we should be expecting these things to happen. ;)
Reminds me of the time I visited achurch with a friend of mine. Right on the actual pulpit in plain view of the entire congregation, was a fire extinguisher. I asked my friend why in the world the fire extinguisher was there and he glibly replied, "The congregation wanted it there in case the fire of God came down on them." :laughing7:
How wonderful the Lord can communicate to each one of us! Like you, I am so happy and grateful to know my loved ones are ok. I don't know how I could ever be at peace, let alone my "joy be full" if I thought more people would be lost than saved, and loved ones not believing before death would be lost to me forever. Also this I think is one of the reasons some folks think Christians are obnoxious. What they don't realize is these 'obnoxious' Christians think unless they repent before death they will forever perish (or worse!!) so yes, they put pressure on.
- I came to faith 33 years ago and the whole idea of 'hell' or losing so many never rang true to me, especially as the God (and Jesus) I was getting to know was so wonderful! Full of light and peace and buoyant joy pressed down and running over!
- Besides, it totally lacks logic!!
BA. My intro post in the intro thread was in january 2011. I share my vision. I grew up in the baptist church. I did not know whether God still spoke to people. I had been taught al supernaturalism had pretty much ended. And it was definitely seen as suspicious.
Is it still in here brother? Would love to read it ;)
I first came to the knowledge of UR when I was a youth minister, and my pastor shared it with me(1978). But I struggled with it for a long time, going back ad forth between anniilation and UR until one year I took some time off and went to the hills and spent a few months just praying and studying and researching until the Lord gave me a clear thread through the word and my foundation became unshakable and my rejoicing became absolute and free from doubt. I came to faith in the salvation of all through the scriptures, having been a teacher and a "word" man for many years, God led me in this way. I think it is so awesome, all the different paths by which the Holy Spirit has led us into the freedom of the "good news".
There is only 1 thing conflicting now which is my friends vision who i trust very much as God opened many truths to me through his (through the HS) his vision entails HEll is indefinate but its quite good, certainly not torment other than been lonley locked in your own body. THe main theme throughout his vision is that the whole human experience is just a test.
And that people get exactly what they Got. Populating the universe is a main theme too, I know some are very narrow minded to even consider such a thing but maybe adventerous spirits will be good at that?
Im atleast at a point where im happy to know either way torture forever is a joke let alone a myth & if there was one it be more punishment & torment of just been flesh not been able to get to any kind of higher state. I do hope all will be saved which is what the scriptures point too, but as I think some scriptures seem to point to everlasting punishment too so bit confues at the me, MY conviction which I believe God showed me is salvation to all :HeartThrob:
Quote from: battle axe on January 25, 2013, 04:37:05 AM
Is it still in here brother? Would love to read it ;)
funny, I thought I wrote about my vision, but didn't! I just went back and looked. I wrote of the revelation of UR, but not preceeding.
Here it is.
It was about 2 years ago. I had become discontent with everything. I had it good too. I grew up in a christian home. And always believed in God. Had everything going just as planned. Good living, great hours, lots of recreation. The american dream. I started to become disillusioned, discontent. I had it all, but lacked any real spiritual connection. Like I said, I always believed in God. I can't remember a time I didn't, even through the crazy college years. But I saw these men of the bible, and God acting in His creation. All I heard was the sound of my thoughts when I tried to pray. (actually after having this vision and the next major one, I remembered that I had heard His voice as a child, but was taught God didn't still speak to people, or any supernatural stuff)
Our church had read a book called "emotionally healthy spirituality", and by the books standard I was an immature christian. I had been a christian all my life. I knew doctrine. I read my bible (well not even close to the amount since coming to UR). But I was stuck.
Before I said I had it all, but I didn't mention the chronic sin that was plaguing me. That was a catalyst for sure. But here I am, realizing that my spiritual life was pretty empty. So I began to pray, which has never been my strong suit. And I prayed. I began to ask God why couldn't I give my whole life to Him. I saw these on fire christians that change the world, I saw the examples in the Bible of men who had God. I wanted that. I couldn't figure out what the hold up was. I assumed it was my sin. Or some other thing in my life. Maybe my career, or my hobbies. I prayed and prayed. NO answer. This went on for a couple weeks.
I began to become quite depressed, and even had suicidal thoughts, which is crazy cus I love myself way too much to kill me :rolllol:
I would weep and beg God to show me what the thing keeping me from giving my everything to Him. I started to bargain, I will give you everything if you just tell me. Still nothing but my own thoughts.
Finally one day I was standing in my family room. Despair had set in. I couldn't take any more. I said "I don't care what it is, I can't do this anymore. I give everything to you."
At that moment I was taken in a vision. I stepped out of a cave on a mountain, over a cliff. There was a distinct line between the darkness I was standing in, and the edge of the cliff. That signified me giving everything. Like the line in the sand.
I fell and fell, but realized I wasn't falling. And all there was was a great white light, kind of like the sun. It had totally taken over everything that was there, originally there was a valley and mountain features, but it was gone. I had fallen into Gods very presence.
The fire/light burned into and through me. (At this point I knew nothing of fire symbolizing God's presence, only that fire=hell) Every deed/thought was laid bare. And btw I was the one bringing up these charges against myself. Like see how horrible I am, how can you take me. And as a deed was brought up, I would fall over dead, but He would raise me up. This happened over and over until I could stand on my own. And accept "you are my son".
It hurt but didn't. The fire hurt because of shame, but the shame wasn't coming from God but myself. but it was the most loving, reassuring thing I could imagine.
When I was able to stand on my own I returned to my family room. And right at that moment a word was implanted in my noggin. I can still kind of picture it. I could see it and hear it in my minds eye. (It looked like some alien 3d lettering, it was green). Anyway the word was "eternal" but it asked a question, "is hell eternal?". So I googled that very phrase. I found out about aionos first. then proceeded to spend about 10-15 hours a day for about a month engulfing anything I could on the subject. I think I read everything on TM's main page. Seriously, I read almost all of it. My spirit knew right away, but my mind needed convincing. I read "hope beyond hell" and that sealed it for me.
I had a couple confirming events fairly close to the vision:
1. A couple days after the vision my mom had a dream that she kept telling me about. She didn't understand it, but I did. The dream was about me, and had specific details she would not know of sin going on in my life. My beliefs were very similar to my mothers, and neither of us really believed God spoke to people in dreams still, (for me that changed after the vision). So for God to speak directly to me through my mom was a great witness, because I started to think maybe it was all in my head.
2. It took a while before I finally was able to tell my wife what I had been doing all these long hours. I wanted to be sure, you know so I didn't damn her to hell. She was easy. She knew something had changed right away. My attitude towards her had changed so much. It was very noticeable. All it took was a few key verses and she was pretty set. The tv was on and a show about hell came on the History channel. Guess what, a lot of what they were saying was exactly what I had just told my wife!
3. I had this new gig about to happen. I was going to be sharing space with a holistic medical doctor (I'm a chiropractor). It was exactly where I wanted to be, and on the exact terms I wanted. Yet every time I went and talked with the doctor I had a strange feeling. She was weird. Incredibly smart, and on the same page as me professionally, but weird. Well on a thursday I went and got the key from her and had a pleasant conversation. But something was lurking. I was going to be seeing patients the next day there. I had 10 people already set up, which is huge for a first day of a practice. But that night I prayed "God something doesn't seem right here, I'm not sure what, but if this is not your will please show me". I woke up early the next morning, and checked my email. The first one I see was from the doctor, telling me that our agreement was no good, and we needed to renegotiate. I drove up there in blizzard like conditions and returned the key. when I was telling our friends why I wasn't going to do that practice anymore it came to me why the hold up. I couldn't refer any of my patients to her. She was very smart, and skilled, but I couldn't recommend her. As I said that I realized that this was an allegory for what had been going on with me and God all those years. You see even though I KNEW God was real, and that people needed Him, I couldn't refer anyone to HIm. I never wanted to share Him with others because I was embarrassed by ET.
All these things happened within about a month of each other.
The next major "event" I had was a while later, I had become depressed because I expected these supernatural things to be happening constantly now, and like the kids in Narnia, I longed to go back. One night I asked God why He felt so far away. I heard, and I mean I heard a voice "I'm inside you" (as opposed to "out there").
Blessings.
Nice on RHM :thumbsup:
Its amazing to of had such experience as that. I trust you got over your depression & despairing now?
Through all my experiences iv'e never had a vision, maybe when im an old man lol!
I like you mention its like Narnia always wanna go back, that's sweet bro.
THx for taking time to share it. bLessings :HeartThrob:
Rhm thank you for sharing that. Crying now lol. He is awesome. :HeartThrob:
Yes He is.
Thank you, RHM, that was awesome and amazing...!
Say! Redhotmagma, that was awesome!! Your vision and 'awakening'! :dsunny: Totally!
Oh my, yesterday I was overwhelmed with many, many thoughts of my first encounter with a very loving God... and I did consider bringing this very thread back in order to share my thoughts. I told God if He wants me to share He needs to give me explicit directions...
I'll be celebrating a "diamond jubilee" (75 years) on October 22, 2013 of knowing, believing, loving, sometimes straying from ... the ever-loving, living God I met on October 22, 1938... I was 4 1/2 years old. My earliest memory of parents, siblings, sickness, death, GOD all occured on a cold October day on the Standing Rock Indian Reservation, Sioux County, North Dakota. We were a family of father, mother, 4 daughters, 2 sons... the second son was born on August 22, 2013... we were so happy to have another boy... but Tommy was extremely sick... my dad took the horse and buggy (I did say 1938!!!) to fetch my aunt, a midwife who was very adept at caring for tiny, sickly babies. I stood by the window waiting for Dad and Aunt Margaret... when I saw them coming I ran to my Mom and yelled Oh Mom, they're here. She just looked at me with such a radiant glowing smile... she said "It's too late, Tommy's gone." I started crying, screaming ... she said, "Don't cry, Tommy's with God, he is oh so happy and he will never again be sick." I saw dad and my uncle Anton prepare a small wooden box; I saw them put Tommy's body into the box; I saw them put this wooden box into a deep hole. I was able to go to the funeral... All of this mattered not at all... Tommy was WITH GOD, he was happy, and he will never again be sick.
A few weeks later, my favorite seventeen year old cousin drowned and as I was trying to see his body in the coffin (at that time, funeral wakes were held in the home) I overheard the adults talking in the kitchen... "Well, you know he's a teenager...we'll need to pray for him... " I heard the words WITH GOD and nothing else mattered... George was WITH GOD.
Within a few months, we left Sioux County and moved to another farm... one of my Dad's half-sisters was very old... died at the wake I overheard "She was such a good woman... we won't need to pray so much... WITH GOD...." Well, at 4-5 years old, I didn't know anything about soul, spirit, I may have heard the word "purgatory" but the word "hell" was not a part of my parents' discussion about God, or church... my parents loved God more than they loved their church...
I'm omitting so much... but just wanted to share enough so that you will understand why I believe God showed me His plan "salvation of all" when I was just a small child... an infant was sick, died and was with God; a teenager drowned, died and was with God; and an elderly woman, sickly died and was with God.
There's so much I still want to share... 75 years... and I will...
I am so very glad you shared Anna....and look forward to more. :girlheart:
Anna, your story reminds me of this:
My father was quite the story-teller, and often told stories about family events before I was born. In one he related, a female relative, (great aunt?) was on her deathbed, attended by my grandmother and another relative. She said to them, "What's that beautiful music?" She was told that there was no music there. "Oh, it's the angels..." she replied, and was gone.
:cloud9:
Quote from: sheila on March 08, 2013, 02:17:07 AM
I am so very glad you shared Anna....and look forward to more. :girlheart:
Oh my, I asked God that if He wants me to share more of my 75-years journey WITH HIM, He MUST (yes, I get very demanding sometimes!!) have at least one person encourage me to continue.
Thanks Sheila... so often in the past several weeks, I have wanted to reply to some of your sharings... always they are based on the Scriptures... Perhaps, you could start a thread...
SHEILA'S SCRIPTURAL SHARINGS... there are a number of members that really appreciate your posts and, of course, there are many guests that read your posts... Actually, I'm really serious about this... just one thing I would add...it might be a good idea to give the Book, Chapter, Verses.
I usually know which Scriptures you are referencing (I've been somewhat acquainted with the Scriptures since I was about 8-9 years old...)
again thanks for the encouragement. I'll add more as the Lord leads.
lol! Oh Anna...I have no idea where those scriptures are!!!! They just come to my mind...
i think I THINK in scripture!! But I sure will make an effort. :HeartThrob:
Laz, if I hadn't heard it happening to a very select few saints previously, I would be in even more awe. I have also read of accounts where deathbed people have actually seen the angels coming for them. There is one account of a woman born blind that began weeping and crying out, O Lord, O Lord How blessed I am that yours is the only face I've ever seen! :Pray:
Quote from: sheila on March 08, 2013, 03:47:26 AM
But I sure wi :HeartThrob: ll make an effort.
Hi Sheila. I've found that in order for the emoticons to work, there has to be a space behind the last colon.
TY VB.....I am very computor challenged :laugh:
Quote from: ded2daworld on March 08, 2013, 08:08:53 AM
Laz, if I hadn't heard it happening to a very select few saints previously, I would be in even more awe. I have also read of accounts where deathbed people have actually seen the angels coming for them. There is one account of a woman born blind that began weeping and crying out, O Lord, O Lord How blessed I am that yours is the only face I've ever seen! :Pray:
If someone hears the angels coming for them does that mean that people have an immortal soul. I thought when you died you were dead and know not anything.
Ecclesiastes 9
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Perhaps it is to give the dying comfort and hope. I don't subscribe to the concept of the "immortal soul," as the Word of God states clearly that the soul is mortal.
What does mortal/immortal mean tho, really- imo it is unclear :o)
The soul that sinneth shall die. Well every soul has sinned(except Jesus) and every soul has died, as in "experienced death", or, better yet(imo) "entered death/come under the authority of death".
This does not necessarily mean "cease to exist"- since we are not under the ET or ED view of what death is.
When did Adam die? I think when he was separated from the tree of life, he began to die, he came under the authority of death.
Even as salvation is progressive, death is progressive. All who have not "seen Jesus" are under the shadow of the valley of death, behind/beneath "the veil"
All who have are "passed from death unto life". The veil is removed- and death IS the veil. That is the message of the veil of the temple being rent (imo)
And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples, Even the veil which is stretched over all nations.
(Isa 25:7)
But I am not trying to establish an alternate doctrine to "mortal soul". i just like to ask questions that (to me) poke holes in these across the board doctrines that oppose one another such as, mortal/immortal soul; sovereign will/free will; fulfilled view/historic view- because they seldom fullfill "all" the scriptures and the truth(imo) is usually hidden(hidden wisdom 1Cor 2) somewhere beyond the veil of the opposing extremes. :o)
When Samuel came up from the grave to speak to Saul was it his soul speaking? His spirit?(How, if the spirit returns to God who gave it).
I think there are many mysteries that are meant to be unanswered and systematic theology fails to embrace and consider the "purposely placed" mysterious exceptions to our doctrines that "litter" the word. :o)
Anna :thumbsup:
On my grandma's deathbed she asked who that asian woman was standing there, I think she was hearing music too. BTW to watch the life leave someone is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. It is a very clear moment that we are not these bags of flesh only.
I'm not a psycho or something, but there was a very clear moment when she died, her eyes went dim, the life faded from her skin. It was sad, but then I'm not sad that she's gone. Whether she is with the Lord now, or need wait till the resurrection (from our temporal view), from her POV I believe that once you close your eyes on this side you open them at the resurrection.
From death springs life.
Quote from: eaglesway on March 09, 2013, 05:08:07 AM
What does mortal/immortal mean tho, really- imo it is unclear :o)
Perhaps this will make my position more clear:
dirt --> lifeless body [made by God]
lifeless body + breath of life = living soul (Adam and everyone after) the soul now exists/is alive
living soul - breath of life = lifeless body (those who have passed on) the soul does not now exist/is dead
Within this framework, I am impelled to think that what was brought up before Saul by the witch of Endor, was a demon.
That was beautiful about your Grandma Jer. :HeartThrob:
You can definitely tell when looking at the body of your loved one who has passed on that we are not our bodies!! It's almost creepy to look at them (for me) because there is that body they lived in... yet it's not them! They aren't there anymore...
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 09, 2013, 05:36:40 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on March 09, 2013, 05:08:07 AM
What does mortal/immortal mean tho, really- imo it is unclear :o)
Perhaps this will make my position more clear:
dirt --> lifeless body [made by God]
lifeless body + breath of life = living soul (Adam and everyone after) the soul now exists/is alive
living soul - breath of life = lifeless body (those who have passed on) the soul does not now exist/is dead
Within this framework, I am impelled to think that what was brought up before Saul by the witch of Endor, was a demon.
I agree and as far as the spirit that was summoned by a witch it could only be an evil spirit.
Taste and see that the LORD is good! How blessed is the person who trusts in him!
--Psa 34:8
Like Paul said, "This mortal shall put on immortality. :Peace2:
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on March 11, 2013, 06:06:43 AM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 09, 2013, 05:36:40 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on March 09, 2013, 05:08:07 AM
What does mortal/immortal mean tho, really- imo it is unclear :o)
Perhaps this will make my position more clear:
dirt --> lifeless body [made by God]
lifeless body + breath of life = living soul (Adam and everyone after) the soul now exists/is alive
living soul - breath of life = lifeless body (those who have passed on) the soul does not now exist/is dead
Within this framework, I am impelled to think that what was brought up before Saul by the witch of Endor, was a demon.
I agree and as far as the spirit that was summoned by a witch it could only be an evil spirit.
Well, that is not what it says tho. I think the witch gasped in shock when Samuel showed up and prophesied to Saul- a prophesy that came to pass by the way. I don't want to start an argument, but, that is what is written.
I also hear it said that it was just a vision of Elijah and Moses speaking to Jesus in the mount of transfiguration, but I think it was Moses and Elijah, just as it reads. Jesus didnt take them up that hill to see a dream of something that wasnt really happening.
Two of the "spirits of righteous men made perfect" who inhabit the "heavenly Jerusalem" appeared in council with the Lord of Glory and it was such a holy event the boys wanted to build a church around it :o)
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
(Heb 12:1)
Who is this great cloud. I know, just another metaphor :o)
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
(Heb 12:22-24)
Who are these spirits of righteous men made perfect?
I know, just another metaphor LOL
I agree with EW on this one. IMO, The witch at Endor was shocked because she was a fake and Samuel really did appear. Also, it could not have been a demon because a correct prophecy was made and fulfilled. :2c:
Quote from: ded2daworld on March 12, 2013, 10:49:43 AM
I agree with EW on this one. IMO, The witch at Endor was shocked because she was a fake and Samuel really did appear. Also, it could not have been a demon because a correct prophecy was made and fulfilled. :2c:
How can you reconcile that the fake witch was able to summon the spirit of Samuel. Where was the spirit of Samuel that a fake witch could summon it? When a person dies that person is dead until the resurrection. If you believe that their spirit can be summoned by fake witches than the dead must also have immortal souls.
Acts 2
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch
David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For
David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish
Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
I didn't say the fake witch was able to summon him with his body. I said that was why she was surprised he was there. I believe the Lord made an exception as is his right to teach Saul a lesson since Saul was doing what he forbid others to do on pain of death.
Besides that, it was the spirit of Samuel not his physical body. The dead body goes in the ground but the spirit returns to the Lord from whence it came. The Lord was certainly able to bring the spirit of Samuel to the witch and Saul. Just like The three apostles saw Jesus, Moses and Elijah at the Mount of transfiguration. The bodies of Moses and Elijah were dead but their spirits were their with Jesus.
The spirits of those Martyred for Jesus are in heaven crying out how much longer O Lord (rev) :Peace2:
Quote from: ded2daworld on March 13, 2013, 02:41:07 AM
I didn't say the fake witch was able to summon him. I said that was why she was surprised he was there. I believe the Lord made an exception as is his right to teach Saul a lesson since Saul was doing what he forbid others to do on pain of death. :Peace2:
Ok so then this is just your opinion about what might have taken place. I guess since it just an opinion then we can agree to disagree. I understand that a spirit appeared and gave factual information to Saul but to jump to the conclusion that it was in fact the spirit of Samuel is quite a jump. Satan can appear as an angel of light I would think he is perfectly capable of smoke and mirrors mixed with some inside information. I think I saw David Copperfield do something similar before.
Quote from: ded2daworld on March 13, 2013, 02:41:07 AM
I didn't say the fake witch was able to summon him with his body. I said that was why she was surprised he was there. I believe the Lord made an exception as is his right to teach Saul a lesson since Saul was doing what he forbid others to do on pain of death.
Besides that, it was the spirit of Samuel not his physical body. The dead body goes in the ground but the spirit returns to the Lord from whence it came. The Lord was certainly able to bring the spirit of Samuel to the witch and Saul. Just like The three apostles saw Jesus, Moses and Elijah at the Mount of transfiguration. The bodies of Moses and Elijah were dead but their spirits were their with Jesus.
The spirits of those Martyred for Jesus are in heaven crying out how much longer O Lord (rev) :Peace2:
This is how I see it as well. Remember? Baalam was able to obtain the word of the Lord, even tho he was a sorcerer. He asked, God answered. This was no testimony to his righteousness. God will answer whom He will, when He will ,for His own reasons....even sending the "angel of the Lord" and speaking though an ass to rebuke him. Who are we to question it? Who has known the mind of the Lord and who has been His counselor? Who has given to Him that He should repay? :o)
Quote from: eaglesway on March 13, 2013, 04:23:13 AM
Quote from: ded2daworld on March 13, 2013, 02:41:07 AM
I didn't say the fake witch was able to summon him with his body. I said that was why she was surprised he was there. I believe the Lord made an exception as is his right to teach Saul a lesson since Saul was doing what he forbid others to do on pain of death.
Besides that, it was the spirit of Samuel not his physical body. The dead body goes in the ground but the spirit returns to the Lord from whence it came. The Lord was certainly able to bring the spirit of Samuel to the witch and Saul. Just like The three apostles saw Jesus, Moses and Elijah at the Mount of transfiguration. The bodies of Moses and Elijah were dead but their spirits were their with Jesus.
The spirits of those Martyred for Jesus are in heaven crying out how much longer O Lord (rev) :Peace2:
This is how I see it as well. Remember? Baalam was able to obtain the word of the Lord, even tho he was a sorcerer. He asked, God answered. This was no testimony to his righteousness. God will answer whom He will, when He will ,for His own reasons....even sending the "angel of the Lord" and speaking though an ass to rebuke him. Who are we to question it? Who has known the mind of the Lord and who has been His counselor? Who has given to Him that He should repay? :o)
All I said is that I disagree. I am fully aware that the Lord can do anything that he wants to do. The bible does not say that is what happened so then it is all speculation and conjecture on your part. If that is what you want to believe happened then feel free I am just saying that I don't agree. When I read the bible I don't interject my own hypothesis into the scripture which can lead to a false perspective of events. As far as the statement you made about the martyred saints I would like to add that phrase is about future events not past. John was seeing into the future not the past so I would not assume that it has happened.
Quote from: redhotmagma on March 09, 2013, 04:06:54 PM
I believe that once you close your eyes on this side you open them at the resurrection.
That's what I've come to believe also... :smile: 1 Thess 4, I believe is saying they are sleeping until then.. but I believe the Lord and/or angels come to get them/us when we pass.. (sometimes I wonder if 'ghosts' aren't some sleepwalking, but that's just crazy!! so not seriously:)
P.S -- i LOVED reading these accounts!!! and am thinking I'll be reading more of them (the older ones)
blessings! :smile:
Quote from: eaglesway on March 12, 2013, 05:24:09 AM
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on March 11, 2013, 06:06:43 AM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 09, 2013, 05:36:40 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on March 09, 2013, 05:08:07 AM
What does mortal/immortal mean tho, really- imo it is unclear :o) I think the witch gasped in shock when Samuel showed up and prophesied to Saul- a prophesy that came to pass by the way. I don't want to start an argument, but, that is what is written.
I am not telling you that your scenario may not have some truth in it but what I am saying is stop saying "I think" or "I thought" or really "I anything". I=your opinion. And I don't want to start an argument either.
Then why did you say "I" don't want to start an argument here right after telling eaglesway to quit saying "I" anything?
It's called politeness and the realization that we may be wrong. Everything here is the opinion of the forum members.
This is not a debate, this is not an argument, and we don't tell others what not to say :Peace2: :2c:
Quote from: ded2daworld on March 19, 2013, 07:51:27 PM
Then why did you say "I" don't want to start an argument here right after telling eaglesway to quit saying "I" anything?
It's called politeness and the realization that we may be wrong. Everything here is the opinion of the forum members.
This is not a debate, this is not an argument, and we don't tell others what not to say :Peace2:
OK but at least use the :2c: icon to clear up any confusion.
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on March 19, 2013, 06:40:02 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on March 12, 2013, 05:24:09 AM
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on March 11, 2013, 06:06:43 AM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 09, 2013, 05:36:40 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on March 09, 2013, 05:08:07 AM
What does mortal/immortal mean tho, really- imo it is unclear :o) I think the witch gasped in shock when Samuel showed up and prophesied to Saul- a prophesy that came to pass by the way. I don't want to start an argument, but, that is what is written.
I am not telling you that your scenario may not have some truth in it but what I am saying is stop saying "I think" or "I thought" or really "I anything". I=your opinion. And I don't want to start an argument either.
When I say, "I think", or, "I don't want to start an argument", it means exactly that it is my opinion of the issue being discussed and I am [not]* debating the issue, just expressing my thoughts on it. There are a few things about which I would not say, "I think", like, "All things will be reconciled to God through the blood of the cross of Jesus Christ".
Most things tho, I just express as opinions, purposely, out of respect for other participants on the forum who may see what is written differently than I do. That is how this forum works, because no one has the final word here on things like, "Was that really Samuel, or was that a deceiving spirit" etc. etc.- things which make for interesting conversation but about which there is insufficient evidence to make absolute judgments about in this kind of environment.
*added 'not', as i knew that's what you meant - jabcat
Hey I have already forgotten what all this was about to begin with. :banana:
Evidence you have God in you: "and your sins I will remember no more". Lol :laugh:
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on March 20, 2013, 02:45:21 AM
Hey I have already forgotten what all this was about to begin with. :banana:
Fitter, just look at the thread title: "THe Salvation of ALLL how God showed it to me". Yes, the Salvation of ALLL, even those who can't SPELLL. :laughing7:
Unfortunately the person that started this thread, and expressed his vision on this thread now rejects his vision and claims that only some get saved. He also expressed to me that he thinks Gary is a "fool", who twists the bible for his own benefit.
He also mentioned that I am to be accursed from the gospel, and that UR is an ear tickling doctrine. He got this information from that pesky Skull and bones award video about Gary.
However one thing I've learnt from this thread is to not base my faith on other people's visions, for it was so quick for battleaxe to disclaim even his own.
Quote from: eaglesway
When Samuel came up from the grave to speak to Saul was it his soul speaking? His spirit?(How, if the spirit returns to God who gave it).
Hi eaglesway,
I have wondered about this myself. Also, I thought it strange that this spirit or whatever says, "why have you disquited me, to BRING ME UP"? Was the spirit asleep and God woke it up? If the spirit goes back to God why does this one say he was brought UP?
It says that Saul ask the witch "what sawest thou"? And the woman said "I saw gods ascending out of the earth". I am wondering here, why didn't she say "I saw Samuel" or "a man"? Instead she says "I saw gods". Apparently more than one god. It also says that Saul, "perceived it was Samuel"...not that it was Samuel. Samuel tells Saul in (1Samuel 28:19) "tomorrow shalt thou and thy sons BE WITH ME".
So many unanswered questions.
CHB
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 20, 2013, 04:16:42 AM
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on March 20, 2013, 02:45:21 AM
Hey I have already forgotten what all this was about to begin with. :banana:
Fitter, just look at the thread title: "THe Salvation of ALLL how God showed it to me". Yes, the Salvation of ALLL, even those who can't SPELLL. :laughing7:
Yes from the thread title I can see that I got a bit derailed but back on track now. I love this place. :banana:
I thought he meant "all" in the title had 3 "L :Peace2:'s"
Note this also about Samuel & Saul:
And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death. I Samuel 15:35 KJV II
Quote from: CHB on March 20, 2013, 08:30:34 AM
Quote from: eaglesway
When Samuel came up from the grave to speak to Saul was it his soul speaking? His spirit?(How, if the spirit returns to God who gave it).
Hi eaglesway,
I have wondered about this myself. Also, I thought it strange that this spirit or whatever says, "why have you disquited me, to BRING ME UP"? Was the spirit asleep and God woke it up? If the spirit goes back to God why does this one say he was brought UP?
It says that Saul ask the witch "what sawest thou"? And the woman said "I saw gods ascending out of the earth". I am wondering here, why didn't she say "I saw Samuel" or "a man"? Instead she says "I saw gods". Apparently more than one god. It also says that Saul, "perceived it was Samuel"...not that it was Samuel. Samuel tells Saul in (1Samuel 28:19) "tomorrow shalt thou and thy sons BE WITH ME".
So many unanswered questions.
CHB
Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. And when
the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods (elohiym) ascending out of the earth. And he said unto her,
What form is he of? And she said,
An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And
Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself. And
Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
(1Sa 28:11-15)
doesnt fit in our theology..... too bad...... we must not know it all :o)
The "gods" she saw were "elohiym"....."mighty ones".......among them an old man- Samuel the prophet, disturbed from his rest- there is no equivocation in the narrative at all. The witch, Saul and the narrator(the Holy Spirit inspired Logos, IMO) all ascribe the words and the personage to Samuel in fact, not a devil in disguise...... that's i read it anyway :o)
Thanks for your reply eaglesway.
CHB
IthinkGodgive Saulastrong delusion. Ecc 3;21whoknowsifthe spiritofmangoesupward...
andifthe spiritof the animal/beast? goes down.? Beast come up outofthe earth...resurrection
ofrighteous andwicked?those bound under theearth?..pleasenote..supposedly
Samuel spoke truth mixed with lie...andthe spiritof Bablyon[witch with majic-practicing spells] sits onthe beast..
......andtheserpent
eatsdust...and it is the dead body ofthecorruptimage[spirit inman] thatreturns tothedust
my :2c:
....also related to satancomingupoutofthe abyss.......and Saulbeing
handed over to satan for the destruction ofhisflesh...........and..satan himselftransforminghimself
into an angel of light/messagefromSammuel[toleadhimto his death]
Quote from: sheila on November 09, 2013, 05:56:40 PM
....also related to satancomingupoutofthe abyss.......and Saulbeing
handed over to satan for the destruction ofhisflesh...........and..satan himselftransforminghimself
into an angel of light/messagefromSammuel[toleadhimto his death]
Thank you for this insight. :friendstu:
This is the kind of insight that confirms good things in my search.
Amen Shelia , beautiful !!!!
I love it that you can compare spiritual things to spiritual and see the connections of the WORD saying the same things over and over again !!!
I think the experience of Saul with "a woman possessing a familiar spirit in En-dor" is no different than modern day spiritualists where folks get just enough truth from demons to deceive them into thinking they are actually communicating with the dead. I also think the experience on the mountain with Moses and Elijah was a vision because Matthew 17:9 says it was.
I had a vision, but it came years before I was aware of universal reconciliation. The vision in an out of body experience did show me that God is light and unconditional love though, and it convinced me scripture is the word of God. That led me to being on a die hard King James site one day when I got mysteriously bounced to another site with information about universal reconciliation that I thought was bogus because I never heard of it before. It wasn't until I spent a lot of time searching all the information I could find about it to disprove it that I became convinced it had to be true. I've never doubted it since.
It's hard to convince church folks that everything they've been taught is a world wide conspiracy operated by Satan disguised by religion to deceive them into thinking God is a sadistic monster who will torture most of humanity in fire forever. Only an evil spirit like Satan would do such a thing, and only an evil spirit like Satan would establish a religion with that as its doctrine. Unfortunately most of us here were all raised to believe church doctrine is truth, but thank God we saw the light!