The lawyer posed questions that he thought Jesus would have ask of those who make the laws in our State in Western Australia. He seemed to think that Jesus would say let criminals off with a turn the other cheek approach to their crimes. I responded with this comment:
You are presenting a skewed view of God's system of justice Tom. Our whole western system of locking law-breakers up in prison is not found in the Bible anywhere. Rather, when someone stole they were made to pay back what they stole to the person they stole from, actually they had to pay back 4 times what they stole! This ensures that that the victim is recompensed fully and also the thief is made to confront his sin by facing his victim in this subservient way. If the thief had nothing with which to repay the victim, he must serve the victim, working for him until the debt is fully paid.
Just throwing someone in gaol with no accountability to the victim does not work. Sure they may do community service, but it was the victim that was stolen from not the community gardens and roadside verges.
The vengeance that people want for someone who murdered their loved one is understandable from a human point of view..."Lock em up and throw away the key!" But Biblical law properly administered calls for life for a life. Harsh? Not at all, it is justice.
At the resurrection of the dead, those who committed murder will serve the one they murdered for as long as it takes to repay the debt of cutting short their life.
The whole "toss em into Hell forever" idea, is not God's idea, but mans'.
There is no justice for the victim if God were to throw his murderer into an eternal Hell.
God loves the victim and the perpetrator and will see that justice is done for the victim and see that the perpetrator is fully rehabilitated by serving those he sinned against in this life.
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/opinion/tom-percy/tom-percy-imagine-if-jesus-met-was-politicians-for-christmas-drinks/news-story/5ced9c05afd81881e3c76990fc18c895#load-story-comments (http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/opinion/tom-percy/tom-percy-imagine-if-jesus-met-was-politicians-for-christmas-drinks/news-story/5ced9c05afd81881e3c76990fc18c895#load-story-comments)
Interesting response to the lawyer.
What was Toms answer?
There was something that struck me but I lost it in my thought processes. If it comes back I will ask you the question.
I don't believe God is going to reinstitute the Old Covenant Law in the ages to come. Rather, I believe the kingdom is going to grow through the Spirit of Christ until it fills all things.
Quote from: Shev on December 09, 2016, 02:19:03 AM
I don't believe God is going to reinstitute the Old Covenant Law in the ages to come. Rather, I believe the kingdom is going to grow through the Spirit of Christ until it fills all things.
That depends greatly on what you think those laws are...
I think some things never return because they where signs pointing to Jesus. Think about sacricing lambs for example.
As for the other laws we have to split those in two parts.
The zillion man-made laws never return because in theFather's mind they never should even have existed in the first place.
For the remaining laws the question is "What will they look like?" A good example is the Sabbath law. A God given law. But still Jesus broke that law according to the Pharisees. But not according to Jesus because He knew that, for example, the law of compassion trumps the Sabbath law. So helping the half dead man like the Samaritan did was not just acceptable, it was great.
My whole point is that God's law now may look very restricting and even suffocating. But how will they look if we
really understand how the laws are to be understood.
:dunno2:
Quote from: Rhodes on December 26, 2015, 12:17:18 PM
The lawyer posed questions that he thought Jesus would have ask of those who make the laws in our State in Western Australia. He seemed to think that Jesus would say let criminals off with a turn the other cheek approach to their crimes. I responded with this comment:
You are presenting a skewed view of God's system of justice Tom. Our whole western system of locking law-breakers up in prison is not found in the Bible anywhere. Rather, when someone stole they were made to pay back what they stole to the person they stole from, actually they had to pay back 4 times what they stole! This ensures that that the victim is recompensed fully and also the thief is made to confront his sin by facing his victim in this subservient way. If the thief had nothing with which to repay the victim, he must serve the victim, working for him until the debt is fully paid.
Just throwing someone in gaol with no accountability to the victim does not work. Sure they may do community service, but it was the victim that was stolen from not the community gardens and roadside verges.
There is no justice for the victim if God were to throw his murderer into an eternal Hell.
God loves the victim and the perpetrator and will see that justice is done for the victim and see that the perpetrator is fully rehabilitated by serving those he sinned against in this life.
The whole "toss em into Hell forever" idea, is not God's idea, but mans'.
:doh: when you parallel "tossing into the goal" and "toss em into hell" - it's so clear!!
In the Old Testament way, the state couldn't profit from crime.
Ultimately, everything God does is meant to rehabilitate, to fully reform character, to fully restore humanity to its purpose.
"Love your neighbor", in this saying is summed up all the law and the prophets."
since God bound all men up in disobedience..in order to have mercy on all,any with the mindset of exacting venegeance
or justice from their fellowman of any wrongs ..is blind and in great error,imo. specially if you consider that forgiving
all men who trespass against you is a pre-requisite..for God forgiving you of your trespass against Him.
really..in the resurrection is a murdered man going to accuse his brother..'you killed me and cut my life short!"
God will say..you have life eternal as a free gift..how is your life short?"ridiculous reasoning of carnal babes...
really,do we think the lawyers understand Him,? the spirits of just men made perfect in LOVE are free from sin!
Glorious freedom of the sons of God..there is no law against love..what will all the lawyers do without sin to
line their pockets?!!! my :2c:
the truth can be found between the right hand and left hand of God. Jesus at the right hand of God said.....
"You must forgive those who trespass against you or your Father will not forgive you your sins" witness 1.
witness 2 parable of the debtors whom God forgave...debtor began accosting /demanding payment of the debt of fellow
man..there's 2 witnesses of the WORD OF GOD on the matter. witness 3 Holy spirit[left hand] Paul in regard to those
who took their fellow believers to court before the unbelievers..as already overcome of satan..how is that..because satan
is the accuser and he uses the law to accuse as a ministry of death!
unbelief that God is not counting trespasses against them..and instead wants healing and restoration of man..
unbelief that the Lamb of God takes away all sin..............my :2c:
and ps ..and nobody will be owing anyone anything except to love them. imo
Having mercy does not mean the absence of justice. It just means justice leads to mercy. When God corrects men, it is so they will seek mercy. Justice is the process by which men become aware of their need for mercy, and once they are aware, God provides bountifully.
To Rhodes:
I don't know, but I don't think our ultimate reconciliation is paid to each other, but rather we each must be reconciled to God.
Our sins might have been directed to another person, but our reconciliation, I believe, is between us and God.
First and foremost, God wants us to give Him our due. He wants us to be sorry for what we have done, because it offends God's justice and His plan for our life.
Yes, of course, it is good to feel bad regarding how our sin has affected our neighbor, but even more importantly, it is a triangle. God calls us to love, and we have disobeyed Him.
We, ultimately are answerable to God for what we have done. We must love our neighbor, because God has loved us with an unconditional love, and we must pass that love along to others, in His name.
I believe God wants us to humble ourselves before Him, and be contrite, because we see how damage is caused when we brake the chain of trust and love, between one another, which God initiated.
He wants us to come to Him and ask forgiveness, and to our neighbor, whenever possible.
We are reconciled when we ask forgiveness, realizing that if God could love us, then the least we could do is to love our neighbor.
He will give us our righteousness, through Christ's precious blood, shed for the forgiveness of our sins. It is the blood of Christ that satisfies the Father's need for justice.
Remember that our good works are still as 'dirty rags' to God. It is when we ask God into our lives, that we can truly love and transend the sin of Adam and Eve, to as much as we can in our human condition, and learn the lessons we need to know.
So, when we sin, yes, ask other's for forgiveness, but open our hearts to our God, because perfect love, the love that never fails, comes only from Him.
We must do what we do because we first love God and we desire to give Him our life, to do His will. He has asked us to love our neighbor, to share the love He has given to us.
D.
Quote from: Dandelion on December 11, 2016, 11:08:00 PM
To Rhodes:
I don't know, but I don't think our ultimate reconciliation is paid to each other, but rather we each must be reconciled to God.
Our sins might have been directed to another person, but our reconciliation, I believe, is between us and God.
Matt 7:2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.For me the above verse means if a person is easy in forgiving other persons in his/her life then God will do likewise in His judgement.
So yes, it's all in God's hand, but the severity that hand spanking depends on your own forgiving nature.
:2c:
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 12, 2016, 06:40:30 AM
Quote from: Dandelion on December 11, 2016, 11:08:00 PM
To Rhodes:
I don't know, but I don't think our ultimate reconciliation is paid to each other, but rather we each must be reconciled to God.
Our sins might have been directed to another person, but our reconciliation, I believe, is between us and God.
Matt 7:2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.
For me the above verse means if a person is easy in forgiving other persons in his/her life then God will do likewise in His judgement.
So yes, it's all in God's hand, but the severity that hand spanking depends on your own forgiving nature.
:2c:
Yet, I believe that whether or not we are forgiving, and to the degree, depends on God, as well. The question isn't whether we have a forgiving nature, but how much we allow Him into our lives. It is His love, through us, that allows us to forgive.
D.