Continued Need for a Discussion Forum?

[jabcat]

Tentmaker is a good resource for information on UR.  But as far as discussion, most folks have gone to facebook.  There is a growing amount of UR sites on facebook (I'm personally a moderator on 2 of them - Tentmaker Ministries and We Believe In Biblical Ultimate Reconciliation.)  Most of the original discussion forums on sites such as this have closed down. 

Right now just thinking and seeing what others have to say - gathering information.

Is a discussion forum still necessary on Tentmaker?  What purpose is it serving?   Thoughts?

[jabcat]

 :bottlebump:

[CHB]

HI Jabcat, I don't get on any forums much anymore. Most of the time I just read when I get on this one. I noticed no one hardly ever gets on here any more. I have never posted or
put anything on Facebook.  If I go on Facebook and look for  (We Believe In Biblical Ultimate Reconciliation.) will I be able to post?

CHB

[jabcat]

Hi C.  You are right.  We may be the only one of these discussion forums left standing! :o

If you go to either Tentmaker Ministries or We Believe in Biblical Ultimate Reconciliation, it's very easy to join.  Just answer a couple of quick questions and you'll get approved.  Hope to see you there! :)

[Ross]

G'day,
Here's an interesting concept: purely speculative:
I.M.O this quiet/less posting is also like a calm before the storm. Just like the 400 years between Malachi and Matthew, the true followers are being individually given the peace of mind about what is about to literally change everything about how we live.
Personally the excitement is pretty glorious and hard to contain.
I assimilate the point Jesus made to Peter about John when He said "If I want him to be alive when I return what is that to you?"
This forum has been very encouraging and informative. I greatly appreciate all that has been shared.
The depth of information and observations has indeed confirmed the truth about who we really are and why we are here.
Our citizenship is confirmed.
Our position in Christ is definite.
Where we are going cannot be removed.
As a child of God we are being individually trained for the next phase of our life.
Amen!
Have a great day.

[jabcat]

Thanks Brother Ross. 

[WhiteWings]

First of all forum software is still actively developed and sold, so a forum isn't outdated.

Secondly fb is useless for anything besides a shallow oneliner. Not suited for any type of discussion beyond kindergarden level. Virually impossible to find something.

Lastly the great exodus wasn't from TM forum to FB, but to citydata.  Yeah citydata which is hostile toward UR.
I think deep down you know the exodus started because of (long standing)  moderation decisions. Even about moderators that should have been booted even from before when I joined in about 2007.

Getting former activity back will be next to impossible I think. But why kill the forum.  It's free and in it's current state it requires next to zero moderation.
Added benefit is that forum posts can be linked to from FB.

[AshaMithra]

I say keep the forum. There?s always a wealth of new information for UR.

Also, what is the story behind the mass exodus? Did a lot of people here stop believing in UR?

[jabcat]

I say keep the forum. There?s always a wealth of new information for UR.

Also, what is the story behind the mass exodus? Did a lot of people here stop believing in UR?

Gary changed the expectations (increased respect for scripture) and wanted the focus more on UR rather than more general topic that anyone might happen to come up with.  Gary had a lot of his own various beliefs, but wanted the forum itself to only discuss UR and directly-related to UR topics.  That was his passion.  Gerry Beauchemin, friend of Gary's who took over when Gary passed, wants the same.  They don't want to argue about what Gerry now considers "non-essential" topics;  don't want those things to distract from UR. 

So many didn't like the "respect the scripture/stop trashing the scriptures" expectations, as well as didn't like Gary pruning down the various boards to only topics related to UR, and they left.  Both Gerry and Gary believed they'd rather have a smaller group who were focused on UR and available to help those passing through who were new to or struggling with the idea, than to have a huge group filled with all kinds of food fights and conflicting arguments about various doctrines.  So many didn't like that or didn't feel it met their needs for discussion, and left.  Since that one main event, there's been more of a slow trickle over time..perhaps a few for the same reason (they wanted free reign to argue and declare, whether scripture-based or not);  but over the past few years the movement has been away from general discussion forums (most have shut down) and to Facebook groups.  Most of those groups are private, so one can't participate or even see content or the amount of discussion without joining.  There are several that are quite active.  However, most still have specific expectations and don't put up with a lot of conflict, so maybe those who prefer such environment do find/have found a place where they can duke it out.  :laugh:     I also suspect that the new has worn off for many people, and they simply don't participate as much on 'any kind' of forum/platform (I hear this from some folks directly).  Others find one specific Facebook group that sort of becomes their go-to, meeting some kind of niche for them, and that's where they fellowship (such as Messianic Jews Facebook group for instance).

So one size (reason) doesn't fit all;  but in summary, a lot of people left immediately when Gary decided to narrow the forum and with the increase in expectation that scripture would be counted as reliable (default position); and then the continuing move over time by many to Facebook.  I know this, as I look at the #s of different groups, and am involved in several.  Some of the private UR facebook groups have over 1000 members. One group in which I am one of about 7 or 8 moderators, has over 2000 members.

So anyway AM, the TM page/site will continue as a resource and has just recently been updated and upgraded, even if the discussion forum were no longer active.  This is just a discussion/exploration anyway, no decisions have been made.  Again though, by far most of the Tentmaker traffic these days is on the Tentmaker Ministries Facebook page, unless it's folks passing through this original site looking for information - which is still very useful IMO.

[jabcat]

But why kill the forum. 
Added benefit is that forum posts can be linked to from FB.

:thumbsup:

[joeteekay]

I suggest the forum continue. Even though I am not as active on it as I used to be I still visit and sometimes post. And some of the members whom I liked to follow and post no longer do so. I am not on Face Book and have no desire to join. This forum is the only one which I belong to. I may not be as active as I would like, but it has a wealth of information.
Joe  :2c:

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup:

I suggest the forum continue. Even though I am not as active on it as I used to be I still visit and sometimes post. And some of the members whom I liked to follow and post no longer do so. I am not on Face Book and have no desire to join. This forum is the only one which I belong to. I may not be as active as I would like, but it has a wealth of information.
Joe  :2c:

:thumbsup:

[rosered]

I visit often as well and miss the growing in truth and grace.
I know some would call it the great falling away Paul  expounds upon , He writes, "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first" (2 Thessalonians 2:3). He then proceeds to explain this "falling away" in greater detail.

Paul writes that it will involve the revealing of "the man of sin...the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God" (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4). Some man is going to style himself as greater than God, pretending to be God?and people will believe him. Why? Because:

"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie" (2 Thessalonians 2:9-11).

I cannot rationalize  anything as if it is the end times , I do  believe it is for some , their own end times to the world as they know it .  I know there is a great concern for being deceived .
I have always felt it is personal , such as seek out your own salvation with fear and trembling because the spirits are warring continually, the world bound rebellious spirits verses the heavenly ones. 

I do miss the fellowship most and the unity of being able to strengthen one another in these times .
The problem I have always seen in any forum including this one , is the being misunderstood and being worn out because no one wants to be deceived or deceive that evokes fear of change .. 
   The truth is the only thing that can and will set you free and the Glory is GODS alone .So we put our faith and confidence in His will and desire for the whole world  and trust Him more and more .  We love everyone , but do not always like the pain of change and the presence of evil .  growing pains are hard to endure .  So we rest in hope and pray the Lord comes quickly and saves us all .
For me the prayer of the Lord Jesus Christ says it all , We are to love one another and pray for one another  and forgive one another and keep us from the evil one that desires to rule over us .So the Holy Spirit can lead us and guide us to all truth , which is the LORD HIMSELF . to be found in Christ  and covered from the sin and stain of the world and all the corruption. I do thank the Lord  Jesus  for all  the help along the way.

[jabcat]

Thank you rosie.   :HeartThrob:

Just came back from being "out there" on a facebook page called "Christian Universalism" that I sometimes post on.  It's really sad what's happening among those who name the name of Jesus.  Many questioning so many spiritual things, denying the scriptures, leading others astray.  Discord, confusion.  I keep participating, in part, because I feel led to keep speaking up and sharing what I understand as truth (basic as it may be - "look to Jesus, the scriptures accurately translated and Spirit revealed are reliable, get our answers from there and not from our carnal mind/imagination", etc.)...

I actually just used the term there, "part of the great falling away"...interesting to see you use it as well.

Keep our eyes on Him, in tune to His leading, filling ourselves with His Word(s).  Amen, and blessings.

[rosered]

God?s Temple and God?s Wisdom
(Romans 12:1?8; 1 Corinthians 6:18?20)

16Do you not know that you yourselves are God?s temple, and that God?s Spirit dwells inb you? 17If anyone destroys God?s temple, God will destroy him; for God?s temple is holy, and you are that temple.

18Let no one deceive himself. If any of you thinks he is wise in this age, he should become a fool, so that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God?s sight. As it is written: ?He catches the wise in their craftiness.?c 20And again, ?The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.?d

21Therefore, stop boasting in men. All things are yours, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephase or the world or life or death or the present or the future. All of them belong to you, 23and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.

I love to stick with the scriptures too James !    it is a written word that becomes  a spoken word from God to a living word that dwells in us !  I do not want to become a hypocrite
I can say but not do and that for me leaves me  weak and defeated , I had to quit  saying  anything to anyone till  the LORD can strengthen   and give the power to do the works  of the HOLY SPIRIT

my own man of sin had to be exposed  and makes one a humble heap  and a fool ., to be remade for the potters use . 
  to God be the glory ..

[joeteekay]

Very good thread. I love hearing again from rosered. :banana:

[rosered]

God bless your heart <3 Joeteekay !!  :dsunny:   

[Ross]

I.M.O the great falling away exposes those who "claim " to be Christians but have not been known by Christ- ergo all the self-righteousness of the flesh, but no true spirit.
Literally sorts the sheep from the goats- similar in appearance but different on the inside.
All part of pointing out the need for one entrance to the next phase-Christ alone: not our faith but His.
Revelation 22:11 one of those verses not talked about by anyone in my vicinity. Makes a fixed position a little bit more arranged by God's plan, not personal effort.
For me this again reinforces how specific this master plan is for all men so that as the future unfolds all will be brought into a new creation with totally new values and ethics so that there will not be the need for wars to express dominion as all will finally work together for common good.
Now that is pretty glorious and specific.
C.U

[rosered]

I.M.O the great falling away exposes those who "claim " to be Christians but have not been known by Christ- ergo all the self-righteousness of the flesh, but no true spirit.
Literally sorts the sheep from the goats- similar in appearance but different on the inside.
All part of pointing out the need for one entrance to the next phase-Christ alone: not our faith but His.
Revelation 22:11 one of those verses not talked about by anyone in my vicinity. Makes a fixed position a little bit more arranged by God's plan, not personal effort.
For me this again reinforces how specific this master plan is for all men so that as the future unfolds all will be brought into a new creation with totally new values and ethics so that there will not be the need for wars to express dominion as all will finally work together for common good.
Now that is pretty glorious and specific.
C.U

Amen   Ross
It is how I see it as well and want to continue to show a pattern, perhaps  a picture if you will , that sent some great comfort and maybe some understanding the work of God from the beginning as to making all things new . 
  When Our Lord Jesus Christ went to the cross , the mighty work of Gods only begotten Son and one of a kind , was   to become the first born from the dead , as a showing us the way  to the Father though the Son , the Sun the light of the whole world and all things  ,  being the Head in place as all authority  to the building up of the Body  each in their own order 

there are so many scriptures  to put in  here and I am  afraid it would become a long thread .  but  anyone who has read the written Word  ,  would hear the sound of the Holy Spirit by faith , our
witness to Gods glory though the Son  and being the  Hope in our hearts   that substance   that builds up and keeps our conscience  true to the LIVING WORK  AND WORD , done that Jesus  showed us as he walked in by the new testament and all the witnesses   there in .
If  there  was anyone  waiting for some other thing/Jesus  , we will be deceived   , because the scriptures state  plainly  , that in the last days   God would show us  everything  though His Son , being the total authority  already doing the works as it is written and shown  throughout the Scriptures  , His return would be to  me as  this . 
Coming to us  fulfilling the promises  , as I am the resurrection and the Life  in John 11 Jesus Comforts Martha and Mary
?24Martha replied, ?I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.? 25 Jesus said to her, ?I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies. 26And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this???

I look at this as to being already HIS FAITH   working though us and His witness  as to keeping us ALIVE in Christ . that annoiting  from the Holy Spirit  that  corrects us and chastizes us and confirms in us  and comforts us as a part of HIM as the Spirit of prophecy or the revealing of Christ in us the Hope of glory  to know  the Father though the Son .  until He reconciles all things  in the world unto Himself before He is  last  and subjects Himself to the Father in 1 Corint 15 . till God be all in all , HE ALONE IS THE day of the Lord and our  peace and rest and SABBATH DAY .
Doing the works as the Head is in place already  and building up  of the Body till it is entire and complete and wanting nothing .Because it is Him  doing everything  pertaining to salvation  though Gods work  from the begining  in those 6 days  and rested as the Son being the 7th Day and  finishing  up all things found in HIM .
I am always afraid  to stumble   anyone who cannot see this part of the work of the cross , but  still   this,  by Him and though Him were all things made

   1 Col  15 The Supremacy of Christ
15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.?
1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things have been ?
Now when all things shall have been put in subjection to Him, then also the Son Himself will be put in subjection to the One having put in subjection all things to Him, so that God may be all in all


I will stop here for now , it is a lot to take in  , but it has been settled in my heart to trust in God though Jesus Christ  as to how He is everything  and to ask Him to bless us all with more of Him as He sees fit to do so .

I see him as the HOLY ONE that  is only alive  to God the FATHER and nothing lives outside of Him   and Him alone  that must be reconciled by His  blood / life and when every knee will bow and tongue confess  what is truth . He is the  WAY made planned from the beginning Truth and the Life and Spiritual growth  given to us by the Father and the Holy Spirit   that witness of  both  Heaven and earth  and always  because God so loved the world He gave us His Son to do everything in one day  the 1000  year reign and Day of the LORD ..  King of kings and Lord of lords  there is no power  outside of GODS WILL to be done to make everything new and alive in Him .  HIS GLORY  ALONE . Isaiah 2

those that believed are given  life to life John 5 Jesus is making the profound statement that salvation is a free gift from God for those who believe in his Son, Jesus Christ. So, while all are dead in Adam (1 Cor 15:22) by virtue of our inherited sinfulness and the sins we have committed as a result, those who believe pass out of death, and into life, and life eternal.
  and those that die in sin shall be given life though the working of the Son and those found in Him alive to the Father  as fulfilling the promises of God and the surety of salvation of GOD ALONE , no man can boast  only GOD will be exalted in that Day    Eph.2
Given the rest in Christ we also know it is the working of God  alone  and find our way and place  being found in Him and by Him and though Him we Honor the Father  till God be all in All . 

[Ross]

Amen.
Hebrews 4:10 a classic portrait about the significance of the Sabbath as far as personal effort goes- do enough to get by, but not go to any extreme like many of our supposed "examples of faith " have done.
To live is Christ, to die is gain.

[rosered]

Amen.
Hebrews 4:10 a classic portrait about the significance of the Sabbath as far as personal effort goes- do enough to get by, but not go to any extreme like many of our supposed "examples of faith " have done.
To live is Christ, to die is gain.

Amen  :dsunny: 

[Ross]

Interesting that not too many people talk about or recognise that this age is only the beginning of life.
The idea of the Sabbath being the end of creation is probably why the concept of singing for eternity doesn't stimulate much longing for the future.
The Fact that there are ages to come, for me, is that mind blowing positivity about why we are here and where we are going.

[joeteekay]

Interesting that not too many people talk about or recognise that this age is only the beginning of life.
The idea of the Sabbath being the end of creation is probably why the concept of singing for eternity doesn't stimulate much longing for the future.
The Fact that there are ages to come, for me, is that mind blowing positivity about why we are here and where we are going.

I agree with what you are saying Ross, for the most part. But I am not sure what you mean by saying "the Sabbath being the end of creation'.

On a related matter,  the book of Hebrews is a bit of a conundrum for me. Many believe it was written by Apostle Paul. I have my doubts. Every letter he wrote  he makes it clear he is the author in the first chapter and first verse. Some have speculated that Hebrews was written by Barnabus, a faithful companion of Paul. I lean to this possibility although it is just speculation. No one likely knows for sure. In Hebrews frequent reference is made to Old Testament conceptions. Just my  :2c:

Perhaps a new tread is required?

[Ross]

The Sabbath is taken, by some,  to mean that God stopped work ,and has not done anything else for creation since that time.
That idea negates the new heaven and earth which is in the process of being implemented soon.

[rosered]

?So I declared on oath in my anger,
    ?They shall never enter my rest.

And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: ?On the seventh day God rested from all his works.?[c] 5 And again in the passage above he says, ?They shall never enter my rest.?

6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it ?Today.? This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

?Today, if you hear his voice,
    do not harden your hearts.
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God?s rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God?s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.


I thought I would just put these scriptures up here for reference.
I love that you brought this up Joeteekay  and Ross .
I have no clue as to how exactly the ages  apply  and trust Gods plan of the ages by faith in His will being done on earth as it is in heaven .So that being said , I have gave up my will /desire to speak for God on that note .
But Believe with all my heart that everything pertaining to the world is going to be  reconciled to God though the Son .   to me the Cross was the DAY OF THE LORD starting the reconciliation process .    and A HOLY   THING .

The means God used to reconcile us to Himself was His own Son, Jesus Christ: ?All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men?s sins against them? (2 Corinthians 5:18?19). In fact, it was ?while we were God?s enemies [that] we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son? (Romans 5:10). Jesus? death makes all the difference. When Christ died, He was ?making peace through his blood, shed on the cross? (Colossians 1:20).?19For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross. 21Once you were alienated from God and were hostile in your minds because of your evil deeds.?

I Have come to a conclusion everyone that is still under the old covenant  law is being tutored though  the tree of knowledge of good and evil   and this age is to lead us to Christ .

Being the Head of all authority  and is our Sabath rest. Matt 1128 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

We all know it is a 3 part work  , the body is not counted for much , if God took the breath from us at any time we would , die and rot for the most part .   the body is known for being  flesh and blood that was never meant to inherit anything but death in the first place.  But a Body was prepared to inter  into when death was given over to destruction of the mortal one .   mortality  to imortality   1 Cor 15 Where, O Death, is Your Victory?
?52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass: ?Death has been swallowed up in victory.??55?Where, O Death, is your victory?

Where, O Death, is your sting??i

56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!

58Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast and immovable. Always excel in the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

I also believe that the laws  power  causes death in every one of us .
When we compare ourselves with one another  we sin against God and our own bodies and souls/lives   we are not the lawgiver but judges  [James 4 ;12]12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you?who are you to judge your neighbor? that brings DEATH to our bodies in many ways because we reject the truth  , the truth is to me  we are to hold the standard of holiness  , not comparing ourselves to others but to JESUS  STANDARD   
Because  Jesus said  in John 8 ,with the woman caught in the act of adultery ?14Jesus replied, ?Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is valid, because I know where I came from and where I am going. But you do not know where I came from or where I am going. 15You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16But even if I do judge, My judgment is true, because I am not alone; I am with the Father who sent Me.?

How can we make all the scriptures fit ?  When we hunt  for the Truth and want to understand  we find ourselves stumbling over other scriptures that do not quite measure up in our thinking .

I believe we are healed and made whole when we by faith ask HIM for more faith ,His faith , He cannot deny Himself ,[His Body of believers ] and that Hope is kept alive though  the work of the Holy Spirit and the LOVE of God keep us in check  , by convicting us , giving us a conscience that bears witness  that we belong to Him and not left to ourselves any longer . chastening us , letting us know it is not  the devil tormenting us , but our own  evil deeds  being exposed  as sin=death  [Romans 8 it is no longer I that sins but the sin that dwells in  our flesh that must be  destroyed by the breath of His coming to us .
I think of the man at the tombs out of his mind with sin and ful of demons  Mark 5  3 This man lived in the tombs, and no one could bind him anymore, not even with a chain. 4 For he had often been chained hand and foot, but he tore the chains apart and broke the irons on his feet. No one was strong enough to subdue him. 5 Night and day among the tombs and in the hills he would cry out and cut himself with stones.

6 When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees in front of him. 7 He shouted at the top of his voice, ?What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? In God?s name don?t torture me!? 8 For Jesus had said to him, ?Come out of this man, you impure spirit!?

Until Jesus come to make this mans mind right  he was tormented and lost , but in Gods mercy though Jesus Christ he was healed and had entered rest ..
I was given by a friend of God and witness  cutting himself with stones can represent   the law as it was written on tables of stones  unable to keep all the law , no one can keep all the law

Gal 3 Christ Redeemed Us
10All who rely on works of the law are under a curse. For it is written: ?Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.? 11Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, ?The righteous will live by faith.? 12The law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, ?The man who does these things will live by them.??

The law was written to bring us to Christ by faith  again , there are so many things to say  , I will end this now  because it is getting long winded  and  we KNOW   JESUS is fulfilling ALL the law  though Himself . and apart from Him we can do nothing . Salvation is of God and we all must learn obedience though suffering , and it is better to suffer for doing GOOD  though Jesus Christ than to suffer though  sin and disobedience.