Will the REAL author come forth, please!

[anna274]

1 Cor 2:1-8

v 1   As for myself, brethren, when I came to you, I did not come proclaiming to you the testimony and evidence or mystery and secret of God [concerning what He had done through Christ for the salvation of men] in lofty words of eloquence or human philosophy and wisdom;

v 2   For I resolved to know nothing (to be acquainted with nothing, to make a display of the knowledge of nothing, and to be conscious of nothing) among you except Jesus Christ, the Messiah and Him crucified.

...
v 4  And my language and my message were not set forth in persuasive (enticing and plausible) words of wisdom, but they were in demonstration of the Holy Spirit and power [a proof by the Spirit and power of God, operating on me and stirring the minds of my hearers the most holy emotions and thus  persuading them],

v 5   So that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men (human philosophy), but in the power of God.

[micah7:9]

Should I have understood you correctly...... :dsunny: :banana: :iagree:and Amen!

[Lazarus Short]

...but for me to start my study of the Bible in a literature class led by the Holy Spirit 40 yrs ago and now be transferred to a math class which has a teacher I am not familiar with.
Well now I am in a corner with a dunce cone on my head.

Micah, I have been aware of the "number thing" since the late 1970's, have studied into it for some little depth, and you know what?  I feel like I'm still in the corner with a dunce cap myself.  We are all like children sitting in on a Master's Class.  Don't think for a minute that I'm a math whiz - I FLUNKED the Calculus - twice!  We stand before a vast ocean, and have so far, only managed to dip our toes in the water...

[micah7:9]

Thanks, but I got a D in arithmetic!  :HeartThrob:

[anna274]

Micah:  as I was reading your reply re: math etc., the Scripture that came to mind was 1 Cor 2:2-8 and so decided to share it...  it  seems to say Scripturally what your post at least implied...

Lazarus:  I confess, I am greatly fascinated by numbers and during my college days greatly delighted in Pythagoras's view on numbers... I don't think he's considered so much a math expert as he is a philosopher...  philosophy, etc., can be a snare for me and so I've very deliberately kept away from philosophy, etc.,...
perhaps you could start a thread wherein those of you who have great interest in numbers as they are related to the Hebrew language could discuss the sites that you and WW have posted. 

[micah7:9]

Micah:  as I was reading your reply re: math etc., the Scripture that came to mind was 1 Cor 2:2-8 and so decided to share it...  it  seems to say Scripturally what your post at least implied...

Lazarus:  I confess, I am greatly fascinated by numbers and during my college days greatly delighted in Pythagoras's view on numbers... I don't think he's considered so much a math expert as he is a philosopher...  philosophy, etc., can be a snare for me and so I've very deliberately kept away from philosophy, etc.,...
perhaps you could start a thread wherein those of you who have great interest in numbers as they are related to the Hebrew language could discuss the sites that you and WW have posted.

"....philosopher...  philosophy, etc., can be a snare for me and so I've very deliberately kept away from philosophy, etc.,... " 
I agree. The only philosopher I ever found had substance[he was 90 years old] I heard and saw on the Dick Cavett show(most will say Dick who?) anyway, this was back when, and I don't remember the philosopher's name. But Dick asked him what he thought about exercise, and the old boy leaned back scratched his chin, perhaps he only rubbed it, and then looked at mister Cavett and answered, "When the thought of exercise crosses my mind, I lay down until the thought passes,"
I have always thought that was great philosophy. And now you know my acceptance of philosophy, I lay down until the thought passes. :dsunny:

[Lazarus Short]

My acceptance of philosophy is in my sig.  :2c:

[micah7:9]

What is a "sig". I am probably showing a bit of stupidity, but I don't get it. :sigh:

[WhiteWings]

Don't mathematicians just think numbers? I am not a follower of the "numbers bible interpretation" but it seems to reason that and it is said that there is math in everything and math can make everything make sense.
So if a mathematician reads a book, say the Bible, and reads it as numbers rather than words, the word Bible becomes worthless, because words don't add up? Just asking. :Chinscratch:

I'm still looking for the exact method (sorry LS what you posted wasn't enough) but I will give you my view with an example that has nothing to do with what Panin discovered.

If we know that every verse should have a number of letters that can be divided by 7 we can use that as a way to detect errors.
If we know the total number of verses in every book can be divided by 8 we can figure detect manuscripts with added or removed verses. The originals never had verses so this example is utter nonsense but I think it explains something....


So, Michah, the way I understand it Panin discovered something like that. He doesn't convert the Bible to numbers; just click the link and check out his Bible. All regular verses. But due to his discoveries it will differ from most and likely all other Bibles because of Panin's way of detecting corrupted text.


:punish:

[WhiteWings]

What is a "sig". I am probably showing a bit of stupidity, but I don't get it. :sigh:

Sig is signagture. Yours is:

Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

[WhiteWings]

And now you know my acceptance of philosophy, I lay down until the thought passes. :dsunny:

Please give me  a few moments to ponder that philosophical wisdom of yours Micah  :winkgrin:

[micah7:9]

No apologies.....Im still giggling  :laugh: :laugh: :laughing7: that was funny :rolllol: :rolllol:

[Lazarus Short]

I'm still looking for the exact method (sorry LS what you posted wasn't enough) but I will give you my view with an example that has nothing to do with what Panin discovered.

If we know that every verse should have a number of letters that can be divided by 7 we can use that as a way to detect errors.
If we know the total number of verses in every book can be divided by 8 we can figure detect manuscripts with added or removed verses. The originals never had verses so this example is utter nonsense but I think it explains something....


So, Michah, the way I understand it Panin discovered something like that. He doesn't convert the Bible to numbers; just click the link and check out his Bible. All regular verses. But due to his discoveries it will differ from most and likely all other Bibles because of Panin's way of detecting corrupted text.

It goes far deeper than the "check sum" you mentioned earlier, WW.  The key is to keep in mind that the Bible is written in numbers, since each letter is both a phoneme and a number, in both Hebrew and Greek.  Panin made the conversion, and worked with the numbers.  Yes, it is excellent for detecting corrupted text, but it is also just as good for determining what should be canon and what not, what book should follow what book, etc.  The most important thing is that it shows us that no mere human mind could have produced the document.

Now if the letters having both phonetic and mathematical meaning is not mind-blowing enough, consider that the Hebrew letters also hold pictorial meaning.  That is how I come up with "YHVH" = behold the hand, behold the nail = Jesus Christ.

[micah7:9]

Well unless a bright light knocks me off of my desk chair, speaks to me, and makes me blind for 3 days, and allows me to spend 3 years in the desert, the "numbers Bible theory" by Panin or anyone is no more than a concoction. And I am not even sure what makes a concoction! I must stay with the Word :dsunny:

[Lazarus Short]

Well unless a bright light knocks me off of my desk chair, speaks to me, and makes me blind for 3 days, and allows me to spend 3 years in the desert, the "numbers Bible theory" by Panin or anyone is no more than a concoction. And I am not even sure what makes a concoction! I must stay with the Word :dsunny:

No matter, you're still saved.  :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:

[micah7:9]

Happy Happy Happy!

[WhiteWings]

Well unless a bright light knocks me off of my desk chair, speaks to me, and makes me blind for 3 days, and allows me to spend 3 years in the desert, the "numbers Bible theory" by Panin or anyone is no more than a concoction. And I am not even sure what makes a concoction! I must stay with the Word :dsunny:

:dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:
But why? All Bibles are a collection of manuscripts collected by man, ordered by man, sifted by man.

For me, what Panin did possibly is even fulfillment of Scripture. Knowledge will increase in the last days. Maybe, but unlikely, he managed to restore the original Scriptures. Yeah, there is a lot of junk passed around but brushing all things away as you seem to do may turn out to be unwise.

[micah7:9]

Well unless a bright light knocks me off of my desk chair, speaks to me, and makes me blind for 3 days, and allows me to spend 3 years in the desert, the "numbers Bible theory" by Panin or anyone is no more than a concoction. And I am not even sure what makes a concoction! I must stay with the Word :dsunny:

:dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:
But why? All Bibles are a collection of manuscripts collected by man, ordered by man, sifted by man.

For me, what Panin did possibly is even fulfillment of Scripture. Knowledge will increase in the last days. Maybe, but unlikely, he managed to restore the original Scriptures. Yeah, there is a lot of junk passed around but brushing all things away as you seem to do may turn out to be unwise.

"brushing all things away as you seem to do may turn out to be unwise." I may do this as you say, still and this maybe to simple to grasp but I believe in the WORD of the Lord, and when man ciphers the Word into numbers and mathematicians discern, for me this falls into something very different and dark. Besides, if I do not brush all the ideas and imaginations of men aside, I may be coerced into accepting some of their thoughts. I will stay with the Word. But I do thank you WW and Laz for what you offer.

[WhiteWings]

but I believe in the WORD of the Lord, and when man ciphers the Word into numbers and mathematicians discern, for me this falls into something very different and dark.

Michah, I think you completely misunderstand what Panin did. Just open the link I posted and read "his" Bible for just 1 minute.
It has no numbers, strange formulae and other stuff you don't find in 'regular' Bibles. There is absolutely no hint in that Bible that Panin used math. Except in the foreword.

Repeating....
There are many manuscripts, from many sources. And guess what very few, if any are identical. Scholars have methods to figure out which is likely (very close to) the original text and which not. Your favorite Bible is a man-made compilation of parts of often incomplete/partly unreadable manuscripts. All Bibles without exception are compiled that way. Panin also compiled a Bible; but he used a different method. Panin believed God encoded a mathematical system so the original can be restored.

Panin doesn't uncover hidden meanings by applying math to a verse. Obviously Panin's Bible differs from others, if not it's not worth publishing. So in certain verses there may be some words missing because they never were in the originals according to Panin's method. Likewise, he may have removed a few verses that, for example, are in the KJV because of corrupt manuscripts and/or doctrinal reasons.

That's what I understand from Panin's method so far. The exact method I still don't know/understand.