Why is Cain not listed in Adams descendent?

[ded2daworld]

IMO, I meant it doesn't take a rocket scientist to build a house or any building. Why would the knowledge have to be occult? ...
and given the long life they enjoyed, they had plenty of time for trial and error. Remember civilization barely changed at all until electricity was utilized. If you discount electricity, things aren't all that complicated. Plus, I believe people back then were far more intelligent since they didn't have generations of DNA losses and mistakes. Solomon was the smartest man that ever lived. God gave him that as he had to have given Adam all his intelligence.

[Molly]

On the contrary, building a house is not that easy, if you have a group of people who have never built one before.  That's why we look around and we see so many different kinds of structures in the world even today, from mud or cardboard huts to sky scrapers.  You have to go to school for a long time before you know how to build a sky scraper because first it has to be designed.  And, you need the right tools, and the right metals to create the tools, and the wheel and the engine and on and on.

So, we look back at what they did then and we see things that we couldn't replicate today, like the pyramids, for instance.   And, this pyramid built with mindblowing technology leads us wondering how did they do that?  And why does it reveal the golden ratio and PI when looked at from every angle?  And, what was it for?

But, before you build a city, we know this much, you need lots of food which will create a leisure class that can just eat on demand and is free to do other things.   God taught Adam modern agriculture techniques which allowed the masses to settle in one place and build a civilization.  But, God's men always remained shepherd kings, living in tents,  all the way down to Abraham and beyond. 


For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

--Heb 11:10

[ded2daworld]

I agree with the last post Molly except for the skyscrapers. Electrical times.
It is quite possible, like you mentioned, that Cain and his group received extra-terrestial knowledge
I just don't think it's certain it was from someone other than God. :Peace2:

[Molly]

I agree with the last post Molly except for the skyscrapers. Electrical times.
It is quite possible, like you mentioned, that Cain and his group received extra-terrestial knowledge
I just don't think it's certain it was from someone other than God. :Peace2:

Then I'll just repeat.  Cain was sent out of the presence of God because of what he did to his brother.  There is no indication that God taught Cain technology of any sort.



13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.


--Gen 4


16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.  Gen 4


...and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

--Gen 4:17

[ded2daworld]

...and there is no indication that he didn't or that someone else did. :laughing7:
Just not enough info to say so in my book, it's irrelevant. :Peace2:

[Molly]

There is every indication that he didn't.

He was trying to teach Cain to give a shepherd's sacrifice, and Cain refused to learn it.

After that, there was no more teaching of any sort.  Cain left the presence of the Lord.

It shouldn't be lost on us that there are two branches here.

One goes and dwells in cities and one remains shepherd kings, living in tents and in the presence of the Lord.

[ded2daworld]

Does God TRY and fail??

and there is no more teaching... mentioned... by anyone at anytime.

Yes Cain left the presence of the Lord, which, since Adam walked with God in the garden,
I believe that was a Christophany and Cain leaving the presence of the Lord was the actual physical presence.

There just isn't enough info.
Like when the atheist says, "Prove there is a God." - There is no "proof"
the only answer is "prove there isn't a God" which is also undoable.
We can have opinions but if the bible isn't clear, they are just opinions. :Peace2:

[Molly]

well, I'm trying to answer the question of the thread--why is Cain not listed as a descendent of Adam?  Because he was removed from the generations of Adam, who had more in common with each other than not and led directly in genealogy to the birth of Jesus.

Jesus called himself Son of Adam.

There is a difference between Cain and Abel [Seth].

And, those who stayed in the presence of God were more alike than different.

But, Cain and his cities were no longer in the presence of God.

Cain is building cities with who knows what information but many generations later Abraham is still living in tents, looking forward to a city whose architect and builder is God.

That means that God was not the architect and builder of Cain's cities.

[ded2daworld]

Seth is the lineage that led up to the Christ, not Cains. Just like Shem is the lineage out of Noah's 3 sons.
We are interested in the line from Christ back to Adam and that's how it goes. :2c:

[Molly]

Yes, but God was carefully picking the one out of each generation who would be in the lineage.   And, more often than not, it was not the oldest son.

Seth is 'appointed' to take Abel's place.

[ded2daworld]

Agreed. What signifigance is that?... :Chinscratch: cause I don't see any.

[Molly]

All due respect, Ded, I can't spend all day talking to someone who doesn't want to hear what I have to say.  I'm just repeating myself.

You talk about Christophany--

I believe that was a Christophany and Cain leaving the presence of the Lord was the actual physical presence.

But it is more than that.  Jesus calls Abel "righteous."   Well, how did that happen?  How does one get to be called righteous?   And Abraham, his descendent many generations later, is also called 'righteous.'  And, still living in tents.


And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him.
--Heb 11:6

Does Cain have faith?  No.

Cain wants to do it his way.

The difference between Cain and Abel [Seth] is a qualitative difference.

And, that remains true all the way down the genealogy to Jesus, IMO.

[ded2daworld]

I WAS listening. I meant what is the signifigance of God choosing the non-firstborn?
I'm sorry. Don;t answer if it will take up too much time.

[Molly]

Ok, sorry.  There is a significance which is later revealed in the difference between law and grace.  Law is the elder brother and grace the younger.  Adam, devastated by the law, is the elder brother, and Jesus, full of grace and truth, is the younger.  Jesus, crucified by the law, is the elder brother, and we, the children of the promise given to Abraham through grace are the younger.

He has always been a God of grace, even though it appears that the Law comes first.

And, the genealogy comes down to Christ through grace, not law.


Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.

[ded2daworld]

Thank you. I hadn't thought of that elder/younger in that way before. :dsunny:

[redhotmagma]

Yes, the natural heir is not in the kingdom, he will serve the younger.  Esau and Jacob, Ishmael and Isaac, Adam and Jesus.

And if you are Christ's, then you are Abrahams seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[ded2daworld]

Speaking of God and Farmers, this was a nice tribute to them at the superbowl.

http://xfinitytv.comcast.net/watch/Super-Bowl-XLVII-Commercials/8911914896018719112/17317955931/Ram-Trucks-Farmer/videos?cmpid=FCST_SB_ADS

[Molly]

Yes, this secret [mystery], kept secret from ages and generations, Christ in you the hope of glory, goes all the way back to Adam.



21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith [in] of Jesus Christ for all who believe.

--Rom 3

[Lazarus Short]

Agreed. What signifigance is that?... :Chinscratch: cause I don't see any.

Jeff, you could think of it this way:  the choosing of the first-born son is the prideful, carnal way of man, and the choosing of the younger son is the humble, spiritual Way of God.

[sheila]

Deut 21;17   the right of the firstborn........that son is the first sign of his father's strength.

   not by might...but by my spirit

[VineBranch]

Does God TRY and fail??

and there is no more teaching... mentioned... by anyone at anytime.

Yes Cain left the presence of the Lord, which, since Adam walked with God in the garden,
I believe that was a Christophany and Cain leaving the presence of the Lord was the actual physical presence.

There just isn't enough info.
Like when the atheist says, "Prove there is a God." - There is no "proof"
the only answer is "prove there isn't a God" which is also undoable.
We can have opinions but if the bible isn't clear, they are just opinions. :Peace2:

Sorry to interupt ded, but you think there was an actually Christophany before the Gospel?

[VineBranch]

Because when God made Adam, God made a farmer.  :winkgrin:

I loved the Paul Harvey tribute, but I think I need to say, God made a gardener (didn't He?), and when he fell, that gardener became a farmer.

[Lazarus Short]

Because when God made Adam, God made a farmer.  :winkgrin:

I loved the Paul Harvey tribute, but I think I need to say, God made a gardener (didn't He?), and when he fell, that gardener became a farmer.

For the long haul, gardening is far more sustainable than farming, as farming tends to deplete the precious topsoil.  It will last long enough, however, to fulfill God's purposes.

[ded2daworld]

To me, a gardner grows stuff for himself, family and friends to enjoy. No money involved except cost of the gardening and time.
A farmer is a gardner on a huge scale and sells leftover produce to earn a living.

and VB yes I do think there was a christophany before the gospel. Since God is out of time, and Christ was slain before the foundation of the world, it's possible he had a body when God decided to make man in the "Image of the invisible God"
God the Father is in unapproachable light for a human to live, so when Jacob wrestled with God, I believe it was Jesus.

[Molly]

 :thumbsup:


It's true.  They called him among other things, the word of the Lord.



1 Samuel 3:1
And the child Samuel ministered unto the Lord before Eli. And the word of the Lord was precious in those days; there was no open vision.



Now Samuel did not yet know the Lord, neither was the word of the Lord yet revealed unto him.

8 And the Lord called Samuel again the third time. And he arose and went to Eli, and said, Here am I; for thou didst call me. And Eli perceived that the Lord had called the child.

9 Therefore Eli said unto Samuel, Go, lie down: and it shall be, if he call thee, that thou shalt say, Speak, Lord; for thy servant heareth. So Samuel went and lay down in his place.

10 And the Lord came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

--1 Sam 3