The scriptures are clear on belief: one must believe to receive eonian life and it's fringe benefits!
*All scriptures used here are YLT.
Mark 1.15 - for John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye did not believe him, and the tax-gatherers and the harlots did believe him, and ye, having seen, repented not at last -- to believe him.
Mark 5.36 - And Jesus immediately, having heard the word that is spoken, saith to the chief of the synagogue, 'Be not afraid, only believe.'
Mark 11.24 - Because of this I say to you, all whatever -- praying -- ye do ask, believe that ye receive, and it shall be to you.
John 1.7 - Because of this I say to you, all whatever -- praying -- ye do ask, believe that ye receive, and it shall be to you.
John 3.16 - for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
John 6.40 - and this is the will of Him who sent me, that every one who is beholding the Son, and is believing in him, may have life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day.'
John 10.38 - and if I do, even if me ye may not believe, the works believe, that ye may know and may believe that in me is the Father, and I in Him.'
John 11.40 - Jesus saith to her, 'Said I not to thee, that if thou mayest believe, thou shalt see the glory of God?'
John12.36 - while ye have the light, believe in the light, that sons of light ye may become.'
Acts 13.39 - and from all things from which ye were not able in the law of Moses to be declared righteous, in this one every one who is believing is declared righteous;
Acts 15.11 - but, through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we believe to be saved, even as also they.'
Acts 16.31 - and they said, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved -- thou and thy house;'
Romans 10.9 - that if thou mayest confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and mayest believe in thy heart that God did raise him out of the dead, thou shalt be saved,
Romans 10.10 - for with the heart doth one believe to righteousness, and with the mouth is confession made to salvation;
But what is the big deal about believing? Why should Yahweh care whether I believe or not? For some people, to believe in a god they cannot see or hear is impossible. Yahweh knew before he created us that some would never be able to believe. In fact, the scripture teaches us that it is Yahweh who gives us our faith. Romans 12.3 - For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you. Here is my take on it:
If we do not believe in Yahweh, how can we know his son? How can we follow Yeshua if we don't acknowledge he is real and he is our Lord? How can we receive help from the Holy Spirit if we don't believe in him? How can we spread the love of a god whom we do not believe exists? What love? What Savior? What is there upon which to build a spiritual relationship with a non-existent god? It would be like me, a believer in Yeshua, trying to follow the Buddhist religion, in which I do not believe – there's just nothing there for me. Because I don't believe in any other god besides Yahweh, any other religion following any other false god is total empty and meaningless – utter futility.
I have often pondered this through the years. What's your take on this?
and yet, the demons believe that Jesus is the son of God.
It's more than belief. I loved it when reading the amplified where it says blessed is he that believes (Trusts in, adheres to, relies upon) that's a different belief than just believing something is so. Good post. :thumbsup:
Quote from: ded2daworld on October 23, 2013, 08:35:16 PM
and yet, the demons believe that Jesus is the son of God.
It's more than belief. I loved it when reading the amplified where it says blessed is he that believes (Trusts in, adheres to, relies upon) that's a different belief than just believing something is so. Good post. :thumbsup:
Good questions jbb. I don't have all the answers, but just agree with you that's the way God set it up.
As far as the differences in believing, I agree too ded. To me, an important point is, only God can give anyone the faith to believe on Him as Savior (trust, adhere to, rely upon). So that would mean the demons (and many others who have some sort of "head knowledge belief", without a change of heart through the new birth) will still need to experience restoration - according His timing, gift, and empowerment.
It's a miracle.
"It's not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit says the Lord".
...it makessmethink of in the garden...andsatan[liar] was beleived instead of God.......
can two walk togather unless they arein agreement. the walkinginfaith is beleifin mtion
I think it a wonderfulthing..that God counts those who beleive in Jesus Christ[truth]
as righteous.....andgives them the power of the Holy spirit to walk in it.
But Who is this? whom even the demons beleive and obey.. Mrk 1;27
There is no big deal about believing. To think otherwise is to deny Father the right to have any believe what He has given them to believe.
There is not a person here that believes anything different than what they were given. Neither are they believing harder than Father wants,
Granted those that Father has not drawn near, want desperately to believe, in anything. I know I was once there. The more I tried to believe the further the truth fled from me.
Belief is TRUSTING that all that is needed has been given and with such Trust, ones understanding of it becomes kind of futile.
I think this is what Jesus meant about becoming as little children. Trusting Father implicitly in everything.
Love Julie :HeartThrob:
Quote from: ded2daworld on October 23, 2013, 08:35:16 PM
and yet, the demons believe that Jesus is the son of God.
It's more than belief. I loved it when reading the amplified where it says blessed is he that believes (Trusts in, adheres to, relies upon) that's a different belief than just believing something is so. Good post. :thumbsup:
Absolutely! A trusting, adhering, relying belief. It certainly is more that just believing there is a god.
But at what point does the belief became the saving-belief?
I mean, there will be all different levels of trusting-adhering-relying in different folks, from atheism to whole-hearted-belief.
Does it count to have any at all?
Does one have to have at least a certain amount - one of those things only God can judge?
Is it only enough when we have good works accompanying our belief (as faith is dead without good works)?
These questions float around in my head.
But the real question here is:
WHY IS BELIEF-TRUST-ADHERENCE-RELIANCE NECESSARY?It is easy to understand rewards for good deeds.
It is easy to understand having a saving relationship with the Father.
It is easy to understand that the divine law required sacrifice to pay for sin, and that Jesus was the sacrificial lamb.
It is easy to understand that Jesus sacrifice covers the sin of the whole world.
But why is belief a prerequisite to receiving eonian life, especially considering that the world will
not be judged based on their belief, but rather based on their
deeds?
because only Godis 'good'..and Good/Godiseven inthe TOKOGAE............even though
Hedie thedeath forit........andgood wrought inthis earth is of God.......the Good Shepherd
does the worksofthe Father...and 'breaks up" the workof the wicked one.....orelse......
men's thoughts would only be evil all the time...a housedivided aginst itself
can not stand...neither a tree..when Lightening comes forthfrom the east.....and
splits it...... Make the fruit good or evil...for a treeis known by it's fruit........
it appears God has decided to takeman 'it is good'..seperate him from the wicked
and make him perfect!!........goodly.......godly branches shall be graftedinto the TOL and be
perfect....wicked branches fromthe tree purged and burnt inthe fire
...say He finds a few grapes inthe desert..andsays..donotdestroyit..there is a blessing init
thus..the Good Samaritan[ye samaritansknow notwhat ye worship] more righteous
because he bore fruit of 'goodness' deed
Faith, from the Greek "pistis," literally "belief," is the noun for "believe."
"Happy are those who are not perceiving and believe." (John 20:29)
"Now the just one by faith shall be living." (Romans 1:17)
"24 Being justified gratuitously in His grace, through the deliverance which is in Christ Jesus
25 (Whom God purposed for a Propitiatory shelter, through faith in His blood, for a display of His righteousness because of the passing over of the penalties of sins which occurred before in the forbearance of God),
26 toward the display of His righteousness in the current era, for Him to be just and a Justifier of the one who is of the faith of Jesus." (Romans 3:24-26)
"For we are reckoning a man to be justified by faith apart from works of law." (Romans 3:28)
"To Abraham faith is reckoned for righteousness." (Romans 4:9)
Faith invigorates us.
"yet the promise of God was not doubted in unbelief, but he was invigorated by faith, giving glory to God" (Romans 4:20)
We are justified by faith, and faith gives us access to grace.
"1 Being, then, justified by faith, we may be having peace toward God, through our Lord, Jesus Christ,
2 through Whom we have the access also, by faith, into this grace in which we stand, and we may be glorying in expectation of the glory of God." (Romans 5:1,2)
"Watch! Stand firm in the faith!" (1 Corinthians 16:13)
"by faith are we walking, not by perception" (2 Corinthians 5:7)
We are justified by the faith of Christ.
"having perceived that a man is not being justified by works of law, except alone through the faith of Christ Jesus, we also believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by the faith of Christ and not by works of law, seeing that by works of law shall no flesh at all be justified" (Galatians 2:16)
"24 So that the law has become our escort to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.
25 Now, at the coming of faith, we are no longer under an escort,
26 for you are all sons of God, through faith in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:24-26)
"5 For we, in spirit, are awaiting the expectation of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision is availing anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith, operating through love." (Galatians 5:5,6)
"Consequently, then, as we have occasion, we are working for the good of all, yet specially for the family of faith." (Galatians 6:10)
"8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ephesians 2:8,9)
"Christ to dwell in your hearts through faith" (Ephesians 3:17)
"we should all attain to the unity of the faith" (Ephesians 4:13)
Faith is a shield against the fiery arrows of the wicked one.
"with all taking up the large shield of faith, by which you will be able to extinguish all the fiery arrows of the wicked one" (Ephesians 6:16)
"Being entombed together with Him in baptism, in Whom you were roused together also through faith in the operation of God" (Colossians 2:12)
"Yet we, being of the day, may be sober, putting on the cuirass of faith and love, and the helmet, the expectation of salvation" (1 Thessalonians 5:8)
"God prefers you from the beginning for salvation, in holiness of the spirit and faith in the truth" (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
"10 For a root of all of the evils is the fondness for money, which some, craving, were led astray from the faith and try themselves on all sides with much pain.
11 Now you, O man of God, flee from these things: yet pursue righteousness, devoutness, faith, love, with endurance, suffering, and meekness.
12 Contend the ideal contest of the faith. Get hold of eonian life, for which you were called, and you avow the ideal avowal in the sight of many witnesses." (1 Timothy 6:10-12)
"Now youthful desires flee: yet pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace, with all who are invoking the Lord out of a clean heart." (2 Timothy 2:22)
"Chapter 11
1 Now faith is an assumption of what is being expected, a conviction concerning matters which are not being observed;
2 for in this the elders were testified to.
3 By faith we are apprehending the eons to adjust to a declaration of God, so that what is being observed has not come out of what is appearing.
4 By faith Abel offers to God more of a sacrifice than Cain, through which he was testified to that he is just at God's testifying to his approach presents, and through it, dying, he is still speaking.
5 By faith Enoch was transferred, so as not to be acquainted with death, and was not found, because God transfers him. For before his transference he is attested to have pleased God well.
6 Now apart from faith it is impossible to be well pleasing, for he who is coming to God must believe that He is, and is becoming a Rewarder of those who are seeking Him out.
7 By faith Noah, being apprized concerning that which is not as yet being observed, being pious, constructs an ark for the salvation of his house, through which he condemns the world, and became an enjoyer of the allotment of the righteousness which accords with faith.
8 By faith Abraham, being called, obeys, coming out into the place which he was about to obtain to enjoy as an allotment, and came out, not versed in where he is coming.
9 By faith he sojourns in the land of promise as in an alien land, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the joint enjoyers of the allotment of the same promise.
10 For he waited for the city having foundations, whose Artificer and Architect is God.
11 By faith Sarah herself also obtained power for the disruption of seed, and brought forth beyond the period of her prime, since she deems the Promiser faithful;
12 wherefore, also, were begotten by one, and these of one who is deadened, according as the constellations of heaven in multitude, and as the sand beside the sea shore innumerable.
13 In faith died all these, not being requited with the promises, but perceiving them ahead and saluting them, and avowing that they are strangers and expatriates on the earth.
14 For those who are saying such things are disclosing that they are seeking for a country of their own.
15 And, if, indeed, they remembered that from which they came out, they might have had occasion to go back.
16 Yet now they are craving a better, that is, a celestial; wherefore God is not ashamed of them, to be invoked as their God, for He makes ready for them a city.
17 By faith Abraham, when undergoing trial, has offered Isaac, and he who receives the promises offered the only-begotten,
18 he to whom it was spoken that "In Isaac shall your seed be called,"
19 reckoning that God is able to be rousing him from among the dead also; whence he recovers him in a parable also.
20 By faith Isaac blesses Jacob and Esau concerning that which is impending also.
21 By faith Jacob, when dying, blesses each of the sons of Joseph, and worships, leaning on the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, at his decease, remembers concerning the exodus of the sons of Israel, and gives directions concerning his bones.
23 By faith Moses, being born, was hid three months by his fathers, because they perceived that the little boy was handsome, and they were not afraid of the mandate of the king.
24 By faith Moses, becoming great, disowns the term "son of Pharaoh's daughter,"
25 preferring rather to be maltreated with the people of God than to have a temporary enjoyment of sin,
26 deeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt, for he looked away to the reward.
27 By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the fury of the king, for he is staunch as seeing the Invisible.
28 By faith he has the passover made and the pouring of blood against the door jambs, lest the exterminator of the first-born may come into contact with them.
29 By faith they crossed the Red Sea as through dry land, attempting which, the Egyptians were swallowed up.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fall, being surrounded on seven days.
31 By faith Rahab, the prostitute, perished not with the stubborn, receiving the spies with peace.
32 And what still may I be saying? For the time will be lacking for me to relate concerning Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, besides Samuel also, and the prophets,
33 who, through faith, subdue kingdoms, work righteousness, happened on promises, bar the mouths of lions,
34 quench the power of fire, fled from the edge of the sword, were invigorated from infirmity, became strong in battle, rout the camps of aliens,
35 women obtained their dead by resurrection. Now others are flogged, not anticipating deliverance, that they may be happening upon a better resurrection.
36 Yet others got a trial of scoffings and scourgings, yet still more of bonds and jail.
37 They are stoned, they are sawn, they are tried, they died, murdered by the sword; they wandered about in sheepskins, in goatskins, in want, afflicted, maltreated
38 (of whom the world was not worthy), straying in wildernesses and mountains and caves and the holes of the earth.
39 And these all, being testified to through faith, are not requited with the promise of God concerning us
40 (the looking forward is to something better), that, apart from us, they may not be perfected.
Chapter 12
1 Surely, in consequence, then, we also, having so vast a cloud of witnesses encompassing us, putting off every impediment and the popular sin, may be racing with endurance the contest lying before us,
2 looking off to the Inaugurator and Perfecter of faith, Jesus, Who, for the joy lying before Him, endures a cross, despising the shame, besides is seated at the right hand of the throne of God." (Hebrews 11:1-12:2)
I can believe because I know His voice (in the inner ear) I see Him in the Scriptures and He reflects Himself in His creation. A placid lake that mirrors the heavens above makes me realize that the Father and the Son are at rest. I can also hear Him in my brothers when I can say, "Amen".
Jock. :dsunny:
Quote from: Jock on October 26, 2013, 12:52:36 PM
I can believe because I know His voice (in the inner ear) I see Him in the Scriptures and He reflects Himself in His creation. A placid lake that mirrors the heavens above makes me realize that the Father and the Son are at rest. I can also hear Him in my brothers when I can say, "Amen".
Jock. :dsunny:
LIKE
I believe.
And I know there has to be some deep underlying meaning behind believing.
I just cannot put my finger on it.
Quote from: jbertonbounds on October 27, 2013, 03:38:11 AM
I believe.
And I know there has to be some deep underlying meaning behind believing.
I just cannot put my finger on it.
Perhaps you need to read
Fox's Book of Martyrs. It is a book sadly neglected in this age of materialism, name-it-and-claim-it, and prosperity ministries. You get to see people who actually did pick up their crosses and follow Him...
Quote from: jbertonboundsIf we do not believe in Yahweh, how can we know his son? How can we follow Yeshua if we don't acknowledge he is real and he is our Lord? How can we receive help from the Holy Spirit if we don't believe in him? How can we spread the love of a god whom we do not believe exists? What love? What Savior? What is there upon which to build a spiritual relationship with a non-existent god? It would be like me, a believer in Yeshua, trying to follow the Buddhist religion, in which I do not believe – there's just nothing there for me. Because I don't believe in any other god besides Yahweh, any other religion following any other false god is total empty and meaningless – utter futility.
I have often pondered this through the years. What's your take on this?
My take is I think you are totally right. :thumbsup:
If I don't believe in jbertonbounds, how could I be talking to him right now? How could I benefit from whatever you had to give? Belief initiates unity with Christ and growth in grace, and knowing the Son is what it is all about.
Quote from: jbertonbounds on October 27, 2013, 03:38:11 AM
I believe.
And I know there has to be some deep underlying meaning behind believing.
I just cannot put my finger on it.
I believe = I TRUST...
God sees trust in him and rewards it.
What I've been wondering about for a while is whether you can believe in something without knowing for sure that it is true. I think it relates to the debate about faith vs. works. If you absolutely know for sure that something is true, I think it's impossible to not act upon it. But if your just making yourself believe, maybe it's possible to not act accordingly.
Believing sounds like something that we can choose to do. Knowing with utter assurance, on the other hand, sounds like something that just has to happen to us because of circumstances.
What do you think?
Samuel
"faith is an assumption of what is being expected, a conviction concerning matters which are not being observed" (Hebrews 11:1)
This brings up another question:
If you know a thing for certain, then is it faith to believe it's true?
Or is faith believing in something you don't know for certain to be true?
John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
Quote from: jbertonbounds on November 07, 2013, 07:49:41 PM
This brings up another question:
If you know a thing for certain, then is it faith to believe it's true?
Or is faith believing in something you don't know for certain to be true?
JB Father has given me much. Most of which when as a child I had no way of proving, yet I KNEW all the hell-fire damnation that I was taught was FALSE. I could not prove it, but that Father given knowledge could not be shaken. I could not explain (still cannot) it and spent many years learning to trust it. This was helped through Scripture of course.
Knowing in a Spiritual sense has very little to do with understanding. This does make sense, because if we understood it, would we really need to trust? Faith would not be requred either.
Just my thoughts,
Love Julie :HeartThrob:
jb, I think faith is beleiving what God says is TRUE...what Jesus says is true......I think you know
it's certain cause God said it..and you know He is the one TRUE God. and even thugh what
He has said,hasn't come to fulfillment at present..that you know it will...and so you put faith
in it..you look for it with hope and you know it will be fulfilled in love..for God is love and truth
and not a liar.
..before we know Him personally..we may hear of Him what is in the scriptures ,written of people
that have had personal expierence with Him. We may beleive those things are true..even though
we may not have had an up close personal expierence with His spirit..but we may hope for just that
and the hope/desire of the righteous[declared so by faith] will be fulfilled..to know God.....
which brings us to LOVE..for to know Him is to Love Him...and your brother as yourself.
Quote from: sheila on November 07, 2013, 08:16:20 PM
jb, I think faith is beleiving what God says is TRUE...what Jesus says is true......I think you know
it's certain cause God said it..and you know He is the one TRUE God. and even thugh what
He has said,hasn't come to fulfillment at present..that you know it will...and so you put faith
in it..you look for it with hope and you know it will be fulfilled in love..for God is love and truth
and not a liar.
..before we know Him personally..we may hear of Him what is in the scriptures ,written of people
that have had personal expierence with Him. We may beleive those things are true..even though
we may not have had an up close personal expierence with His spirit..but we may hope for just that
and the hope/desire of the righteous[declared so by faith] will be fulfilled..to know God.....
which brings us to LOVE..for to know Him is to Love Him...and your brother as yourself.
:iagree:
..especially as in James, it says, our works / fruit / changes in our life and heart is evidence of our faith / evidence of our believing..
If there is no change in our heart and life, I've always assumed there may be a sort of believing but not the "cleaving" which goes along with the words of Jesus, "follow me"... For if we truly "believe", we follow and cleave... just my :2c: :smile: