What happens in heaven?

[WhiteWings]

All humanity is all-in-all.
But all entered heaven in different ways. Some were super saints and other super sinners. Some stacked up lots of treasures in heaven. Some are broke. That's the starting point.
Can people grow in heaven? Is it possible that the current saints get at eventually 'outclassed' by the current heretics?
Or would that be to competetive and causing jealousy?

:dunno2:

[jbertonbounds]

Not sure of any answers to your questions.  But I have pondered for some time about our destiny.

Virtually all of Christendom believes that when you die you immediately go either up to heaven or down to hell. Forever. Period. Distorted to say the least!

However, the following scriptures speak of the creation of a new heaven(s) and a new earth:
Isaiah 65:17 - [ New Heavens and a New Earth ] "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.
Isaiah 66:22 - "For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the Lord, so shall your offspring and your name remain.
2 Peter 3:13 - But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
Revelation 21:1 - [ The New Heaven and the New Earth ] Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
So since there will be a new earth, who will dwell there?  And since there will be a new heaven, who will dwell there?

I have believed for some time that the new heaven will be Yahweh's dwelling, and that the new earth will be our dwelling.  We do know that some will receive greater rewards that others, but ...? I am really not too sure what else to believe, as I have not gotten around to studying that in depth as of yet.

[redhotmagma]

By the point of all in all I don't think there will be any division. You can't subtract from all in all IMO

[WhiteWings]

By the point of all in all I don't think there will be any division. You can't subtract from all in all IMO

I think, as in know, that both Father and Son are higher ranking for ever.
So there is a division. Will there be more? How exactly do you define division in this context. As long as it doesn't cause negative emotions it won't be  a bad thing.

:dontknow:

[WhiteWings]

Not sure of any answers to your questions.  But I have pondered for some time about our destiny.

Virtually all of Christendom believes that when you die you immediately go either up to heaven or down to hell. Forever. Period. Distorted to say the least!

Let avoid that discussion and let the starting point be the moment the very last person enters heaven.
That is  at a kindergarten level. Can he ever raise t uni level in spiritual knowledge.
In other words, will there be growth. Or just steady state non changing happiness?

However, the following scriptures speak of the creation of a new heaven(s) and a new earth:

What exactly is new heaven and earth? When/how is 'made'. I have my view on it but would like yours first  :gimmefive:

[jbertonbounds]

Not sure of any answers to your questions.  But I have pondered for some time about our destiny.

Virtually all of Christendom believes that when you die you immediately go either up to heaven or down to hell. Forever. Period. Distorted to say the least!

Let avoid that discussion and let the starting point be the moment the very last person enters heaven.
That is  at a kindergarten level. Can he ever raise t uni level in spiritual knowledge.
In other words, will there be growth. Or just steady state non changing happiness?

Well, I wouldn't want to start a discussion on what virtually all of Christendom believes, because they are wrong. 
And due to typos, I don't understand your statement, "Can he ever raise t uni level in spiritual knowledge."
As far as growth is concerned, I don't think growth can continue forever, unless maybe it increases at a decreasing rate.  Nothing to base that on, however.  Therefore I prefer the view, "steady state non changing happiness."

However, the following scriptures speak of the creation of a new heaven(s) and a new earth:

What exactly is new heaven and earth? When/how is 'made'. I have my view on it but would like yours first  :gimmefive:

My view is limited, because I have not devoted any time to in-depth study on the subject, but I believe like this, based on the scriptures I've seen (I hope): The former heaven and earth will have passed away and a new heaven and earth created.  Revelation 21:1 - Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.  I'm not sure how much of this to take literally, because the Revelation is highly metaphorical.  The old earth was desinged for it's purpose, to support corrupt flesh, and had to go.  The old heaven was designed for to be God's dwelling place.  So our God will create a new heaven and a new earth.  The new earth will be designed to support incorruptible, immortal flesh and Yahweh will dwell here among us.  I'm not sure what the purpose of the new heaven is, or how it will differ from the old one.

So, what's your take?

[WhiteWings]

And due to typos, I don't understand your statement, "Can he ever raise t uni level in spiritual knowledge."

Can that person ever reach university level spiritual wise?

About new heaven and earth.... That will be this planet. No explosion and similar.
From a unfinished part of my site on LoL. Quite  a bit of reading...

2Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The very short summary is that the noise is the Jubilee shofar.
The elements that burn away are philosophy and other junk teachings. The choice of words is a sneer at the pagan Greeks and even using part of their own doctrine to teach them.

http://home.online.nl/spamfree/Lake/Noise.html
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/Lake/Elements.html

[Tom]

All humanity is all-in-all.
But all entered heaven in different ways. Some were super saints and other super sinners. Some stacked up lots of treasures in heaven. Some are broke. That's the starting point.
Can people grow in heaven? Is it possible that the current saints get at eventually 'outclassed' by the current heretics?
Or would that be to competetive and causing jealousy?

:dunno2:

I believe God will "all in all" at the consummation of the eons, but I don't assume "all entered heaven."

[Tom]

And due to typos, I don't understand your statement, "Can he ever raise t uni level in spiritual knowledge."

Can that person ever reach university level spiritual wise?

About new heaven and earth.... That will be this planet. No explosion and similar.
From a unfinished part of my site on LoL. Quite  a bit of reading...

2Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The very short summary is that the noise is the Jubilee shofar.
The elements that burn away are philosophy and other junk teachings. The choice of words is a sneer at the pagan Greeks and even using part of their own doctrine to teach them.

http://home.online.nl/spamfree/Lake/Noise.html
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/Lake/Elements.html

"Now the day of the Lord will be arriving as a thief, in which the heavens shall be passing by with a booming noise, yet the elements shall be dissolved by combustion, and the earth and the works in it shall be found." (2 Peter 3:10)

"10 The day of the Lord, though it lasts for more than a thousand years, is treated as though its arrival is to be immediately followed by its end, in harmony with the preceding paragraph. It will come as a thief (1Thes.5:2). It will close with the great cataclysm (Un.20:11, 21:1) which ushers in the day of God, in the new creation. Two great convulsions divide the history of the heavens and the earth into three grand divisions. One is found at the forefront of revelation, this one is near its finish. The heavens and earth were destroyed by water (Gen.1:2). In the future this will be effected by fire. The past was a physical regeneration. The future will be a chemical re-creation. Water, in the form of seas, is found only on the present earth. It was not on, but about, the previous one. It will be absent in the third earth (Un.21:1). The changing character of the earth on which we live is due largely to the presence of water. It disintegrates the solid rocks. As glaciers, it grinds down the mountains. In streams, it washes the soil into the sea. This is undoubtedly a parable of the impermanent moral processes through which mankind is passing. The new earth will be unchanging, permanent. Having passed through the great crucible of the divine Alchemist, its stones will be precious gems, hard as flint, and indestructible. And this will also be a parable of the moral purity which has been purged by fire and abides. This chapter reveals the fact that the new creation will be the third earth and third heaven (2Co.12:2)." (Concordant Commentary on the New Testament page 365)

[redhotmagma]

all=100%

you are all, I am all, hitler is all, we will have the all in all 100% in 100%

Not 99%
Not 1%

All

When the son subjects himself to the father, there will be no more levels of division IMO, that is the point of the phrase all in all.  And blasphemy alert :)  Father and Son will be no higher, since we will all be all

Prior to that there will be growing into the fullness, and after that event I believe there will be growing, but as a unity of divinity of all creation+Creator, since we came out of Him we will return to Him like Woman returns to Adam, bride to groom, After Jesus subjects all to himself, like the wife to the husband, then he as the "wife" will return/ be subjected to the "husband" he is taken out of the Father.  And at that point we will all be fully one, not lost, not self, but interdependent, all given His name/nature, seated in His seat. 

:2c:

[mplsfitter539]

I just skimmed over the posts here  and I noticed that no one has mentioned the 1000 year reign of the saints on this planet. Don't you think that instead of shooting right "up to heaven" we may still have some training and small time reigning to do?

[Graph1159]

I believe God will "all in all" at the consummation of the eons, but I don't assume "all entered heaven."

This is a very interesting subject. I personally have wondered if, instead of everybody going to Heaven eventually, people stay where they are (either the New Earth or the location of the Lake of Fire) but when death is abolished, people experience life and union with God wherever they are in the universe.

Another factor is whether time is abolished at the end of the eons. If so, life without time would be a totally different kind of experience than anything we could ever envision with our current time-based minds. If that is the case, it could potentially help explain why the Bible never has the precise phrase "all will be saved." Salvation makes us think of blessings and deliverance in the realm of time, which not all would experience. Also, could it be that God allowed the words forever and eternal in many English Bibles to convey the idea "throughout all future time?" These are matters that I have pondered a lot.

[WhiteWings]

I just skimmed over the posts here  and I noticed that no one has mentioned the 1000 year reign of the saints on this planet. Don't you think that instead of shooting right "up to heaven" we may still have some training and small time reigning to do?

I personally didn't mention the 1000 because my question is past all that.
We had, and will have other threads about the 1000 years.
This thread won't be much more than chit chat because I think the Bible says very little on the subject. But still people must have thought: What will I be doing for ever?

[WhiteWings]

"10 The day of the Lord, though it lasts for more than a thousand years, is treated as though its arrival is to be immediately followed by its end, in harmony with the preceding paragraph. It will come as a thief (1Thes.5:2).

The shofar. The thief in the night was very loud.

It will close with the great cataclysm (Un.20:11, 21:1) which ushers in the day of God, in the new creation. Two great convulsions divide the history of the heavens and the earth into three grand divisions. One is found at the forefront of revelation, this one is near its finish. The heavens and earth were destroyed by water (Gen.1:2). In the future this will be effected by fire.

What sort of fire? I don't think about literal fire. But the HS who is the fire.

The past was a physical regeneration. The future will be a chemical re-creation. Water, in the form of seas, is found only on the present earth. It was not on, but about, the previous one. It will be absent in the third earth (Un.21:1).

That sea (singular) is the Laver, lake of fire, sea of glass.

:2c:

[lomarah]

Maybe "heaven" is more a state of mind than a "place"?  :dontknow:

And I have to agree with red, when God is All in all how can there be ranks? Jesus came to bring many sons to glory. He is the forerunner, that we may all follow after, right?

[WhiteWings]

Matt 19:21 Jesus said to him, If thou want to be perfect, go, sell the things being possessed by thee, and give to the poor, and thou will have treasure in heaven. And come, follow me.


Doesn't that mean not all have treasures in heaven? And that of course means different status/rank

[jbertonbounds]

Maybe "heaven" is more a state of mind than a "place"?  :dontknow:

And I have to agree with red, when God is All in all how can there be ranks? Jesus came to bring many sons to glory. He is the forerunner, that we may all follow after, right?

Surely the Father will have rank - and be the only one with rank.

[jbertonbounds]

Matt 19:21 Jesus said to him, If thou want to be perfect, go, sell the things being possessed by thee, and give to the poor, and thou will have treasure in heaven. And come, follow me.


Doesn't that mean not all have treasures in heaven? And that of course means different status/rank

Well if there is a new heaven and a new earth, who will dwell in each one respectively?

[WhiteWings]

If not all dwell in the same place or places there is unequality.

[jbertonbounds]

Maybe the new heaven and the new earth will all be in one big place - like in my house, where the living, dining, and kitchen are all one big open room, with only differences in flooring to distinguish the different areas.

I notice some scriptures say "new heaven," while others say "new heavens."  The "s" IMO makes a big difference in the translation.  Whatcha think?

[WhiteWings]

In my 1st language there is  a saying "be in the 7th heaven"

Before we put any value in heaven we should know which heaven we are talking about.


οὐρανός
ouranós; gen. ouranoú, masc. noun. Heaven, sky, air. The sing. and pl. are used similarly and interchangeably. There is no difference in meaning between them.
(I) In the NT, in a physical sense, it means the over-arching, all-embracing heaven beneath which is the earth and all that is therein. In this not only do the fowl of the air fly (Mat 6:26; Mat 8:20; Mat 13:32), but the clouds are suspended (Mat 24:30; Mat 26:64; Luk 12:56) and the rain is formed (Jas 5:18); also the sun, moon and stars are placed in the same celestial expanse (Mar 13:25; Heb 11:12).
(II) It is also used for that heaven where the residence of God is, called by the Psalmist "the holy heavens" (a.t.), or "heavens of holiness" (a.t.), of separation (Sept.: Psa 20:6). It is God's dwelling or resting place (Mat 5:34, Mat 5:45, Mat 5:48); where the blessed angels are (Mar 13:27); from whence Christ descended (Joh 3:13, Joh 3:31; Joh 6:32-33, Joh 6:38); where after His resurrection and ascension "He sitteth at the right hand of the Majesty on high" (a.t. [Heb 8:1]) and appears in the presence of God on our behalf (Heb 9:24); and where a reward is reserved for the righteous (Mat 5:12; 1Pe 1:4).
(III) The heavens are used metonymically of God in the OT (2Ch 32:20 [cf. 2Ki 19:25; Isa 37:15-16; Dan 4:23, Dan 4:28]). Ouranós, heaven, is used with the same sense in the NT (Mat 21:25; Mar 11:30-31; Luk 15:18, Luk 15:21; Luk 20:4-5; Joh 3:27). Thus, the kingdom of the heavens, or heaven, is syn. with the kingdom of God (Mat 19:23-24).
(IV) In 2Co 12:2, Paul was raptured to the third heaven and returned. This is called Paradise (2Co 12:4) which is applied to the state of the faithful souls between death and the resurrection where they are admitted to immediate communion with God in Christ, and to a partaking of the true Tree of Life which is in the midst of the paradise of God (Luk 22:43; Rev 2:7).
(V) There is a final heaven which in Heb 11:16 is referred to as a better or a heavenly country; in Heb 13:14 as a continuing city; and in Rev 21:2 the holy city, new Jerusalem. It is the place where the believers are going to receive their inheritance which is incorruptible (1Pe 1:3-5). See also Mat 6:19-20; 1Co 2:9; Col 3:2; Rev 21:1-5. Consult a Gr. concordance for the rest of the references.
Deriv.: epouránios (G2032), heavenly, what pertains to or is in heaven; ouránios (G3770), heavenly; ouranóthen (G3771), from heaven; messouránēma (G3321), mid-heaven, the midst of the heavens.
Syn.: parádeisos (G3857), paradise.
Ant.: gḗ (G1093), earth; geénna (G1067), hell, everlasting punishment; hádēs (G86), the state or place of departed spirits.

[sheila]

when all are in all...they are onebody..however theindividual body members are placed intheir

  positions/functions as He deems.   These positions are prepared for us ahead..andreceive us

intothem respectively.  The sonsofthunder's mother requested 'special' positions inthe body

  and Jesus told her..they are not his to give, but they belong towhom they were prepared for


   NowJudas lost his position...which could have bee na great glory unto him when Christ's glory is

revealed.. better tohave notbeenborninthis realm then tohavelost the positionalready prepared for

you before the foundingofthe world...itis the same a sbeing instructed to taking a lowerseat..If

Judas had diedin hismother's womb..that position would hve still beenhis.


    the administration finishes all of our training in heaven........those coming in who have little

  or no understanding are educated. the arrangementof the body and administration on earth

  of 'gifts in men' for theedificatinof the body..is amirror ofthe heavenly administration...for building

  up the bodyin love anedification.


   you willnever be bored....the work o ftheir hands my people wil luse to the full[nessof Christ]


    Now Jesus showed through great signs andmiracles what God would do for sinsick,blind,lame

afflicted oppressed man..inthe Kingdom....the raissing of the dead, the healing of the lame

  the cleansing of the leper..the caasting out of evil spirits..the opening of blind eyes...

   the opening of deaf ears..the feeding of the hungry...prison bars opened...........

    this is all pictoral and after the pattern of heaven.

..the fullness of the pattern..is resurrection..and returning unto Father. where allmenreceive an

inheritance as a son ofGod

   Jubilee trumpet= all debts forgiven and inheritance[if lost] in Israel entered into..

   thus pentecost  signified but atoken ...whilethefullnessis in the eternal realm...is when you

return unto your Father,your inheritance[immortlaity] in Him[true Jubilee]



   if we received  the fullness in these vessels they would burst.

   I ask you,can a kerna lof whea t contain the mass of the mature plant?....somemay object

and say Christ had the fullness..in a body as man..but itis written if we did know Him afterthe flesh

surely weno longer do..and we are instructed to no longer know any man after the flesh.


   Indeed at His request he prayedthe Fatherforthe glory that was His before.

  doyounot realize that the administration o fthe kingdom of heaven..even now ministers

untothose who shallinherit immortality..on this earth and inHeaven?  Andthat we who have

a part inthis ministry of the Holy spirit are cherished and nurtured as the littlechildren of

  Jerusalem above.?   do you see thebeing caught upinthe clouds togather withHim speaksof

the resurrection after death and the returning unto the Father..into His very presence[home]

Jesus is the pattern...did He no ttell Hisdisciples that He would return to receivethem untohimself?

  [that they couldnotcomenow,butwould follow later]

    Did theangelsnotsay...He would return the same wayHe went.?  Every eyeshall see Him

coming on the clouds of heaveen....that is exactlywhat happens..for the resurrected see Him and

meet Him inthe air whenthey rise...and allmen are resurrected.

   when He shuts the door on this physical realm..He opens the door of Heaaven.......Stephensaw

this and testified to it.[this also extends to those 'changed' at theconsumation.


   look a tcity..the bride prepared.....do you see angels atthe gates? with each gate having

the namesof the 12 tribes[are not the tribesdivisions by birth order? each with his particular

blessing?  are not the 12 foundations of the city the namesof 12 apostle's/one sent forth


examine that city......and see the pattern of what awaits in the etrnal realm....there is a place

prepared for youin it. 

  the pattern on earth per the Holy spiritministry..with teachers,tongues,ministers,prophet and

varying  gifts andfunctions........is atoken of thefullness that awaits in heaven......... we have a

level of maturityin Christ here..a kernal [token] that falls t othe earth and dies....that will

bear much fruit[increase/fullness] in heaven.

              p.s.   does the hand say..I need no foot ..orthe eyes...Ineed not ears?....no man

ever hated His own body..he feeds,clothes and cherishes it.why then..when Godis ALL in ALL

  wuld any part of the body[fullness] feel uncherished,unimportant or lessloved?

   actually...I beleive oneof the greatest gifts Heever gives us is knowing we are vital infulfilling

  what we have been created to do.  ALL have purpose,honour and appreciation inthe body

   it is like a bornteacher that has no position..and finds no satisfaction inany other position..

butfinds fulfillment in teaching.Or an artist who loves to paint,or sing..having todo other then

  what it's 'Talent/gift"is.  Our Father is very 'expidient"......and very creative....and whoknows what

He hasin store for His next creative project.?  That is why Isay,we shall never be bored.........


       nowthe prodigalsays.."I amunworthy to be called your son,makeme as

oneof your servants..

   andthe best robe wasput upon him..and the elderson says........

   and then we have the workers inthevineyard.....with the one hour workers receiving the same

as those wholaboured all day long.  Did He notknow these things wouldcome up?

did He not see objections would rise? Did He not show that the heirwould be killed so

that thevineyard could be seized?  Becauseof Hisgoodness and loving-kindness to others..

should our eye become evil?[as did satan when Adamwasgiven dominionof the earth and allinit]

  should we covet another man's field,vineyard,position..or anything thaat Godhasgiven

another?  Love of Father andour brothers as ourselves is the perfect bondof union...we shall

  ALL REJOICE IN OUR PORTIONS FROM HIM.  HIS ARRANGEMENT..HIS SOVEREIGNTY!!!

   WE CAN DONOTHING OF OURSELVES...WE CAN NOT FUNCTION OR BE THAT WHICH HE HAS

  NOT MADE US TO BE...  Do you notknow that Godis in those himselffulfilling that function?

and that when we see Christ we shall be justlike Him?  the anointing and spirit of God

is what causes any to do the will of God.sothen....the one hour workers were made to desire

and do the will of God forthat one hourinthevineyard...so who was reallydoingthe workinthem?

   whose spirit?  so,see what you are really objecting too...the sovereignty of God over the creation


   is the grass always greener on the other side?   allmen are like grass[wheat]

the wind blows upon them[threshing floorwinnowing]

  and they re castinthe oven[where they are fine loaves of shewbread]

[jbertonbounds]

In my 1st language there is  a saying "be in the 7th heaven"

Before we put any value in heaven we should know which heaven we are talking about.


οὐρανός
ouranós; gen. ouranoú, masc. noun. Heaven, sky, air. The sing. and pl. are used similarly and interchangeably. There is no difference in meaning between them.
(I) In the NT, in a physical sense, it means the over-arching, all-embracing heaven beneath which is the earth and all that is therein. In this not only do the fowl of the air fly (Mat 6:26; Mat 8:20; Mat 13:32), but the clouds are suspended (Mat 24:30; Mat 26:64; Luk 12:56) and the rain is formed (Jas 5:18); also the sun, moon and stars are placed in the same celestial expanse (Mar 13:25; Heb 11:12).
(II) It is also used for that heaven where the residence of God is, called by the Psalmist "the holy heavens" (a.t.), or "heavens of holiness" (a.t.), of separation (Sept.: Psa 20:6). It is God's dwelling or resting place (Mat 5:34, Mat 5:45, Mat 5:48); where the blessed angels are (Mar 13:27); from whence Christ descended (Joh 3:13, Joh 3:31; Joh 6:32-33, Joh 6:38); where after His resurrection and ascension "He sitteth at the right hand of the Majesty on high" (a.t. [Heb 8:1]) and appears in the presence of God on our behalf (Heb 9:24); and where a reward is reserved for the righteous (Mat 5:12; 1Pe 1:4).
(III) The heavens are used metonymically of God in the OT (2Ch 32:20 [cf. 2Ki 19:25; Isa 37:15-16; Dan 4:23, Dan 4:28]). Ouranós, heaven, is used with the same sense in the NT (Mat 21:25; Mar 11:30-31; Luk 15:18, Luk 15:21; Luk 20:4-5; Joh 3:27). Thus, the kingdom of the heavens, or heaven, is syn. with the kingdom of God (Mat 19:23-24).
(IV) In 2Co 12:2, Paul was raptured to the third heaven and returned. This is called Paradise (2Co 12:4) which is applied to the state of the faithful souls between death and the resurrection where they are admitted to immediate communion with God in Christ, and to a partaking of the true Tree of Life which is in the midst of the paradise of God (Luk 22:43; Rev 2:7).
(V) There is a final heaven which in Heb 11:16 is referred to as a better or a heavenly country; in Heb 13:14 as a continuing city; and in Rev 21:2 the holy city, new Jerusalem. It is the place where the believers are going to receive their inheritance which is incorruptible (1Pe 1:3-5). See also Mat 6:19-20; 1Co 2:9; Col 3:2; Rev 21:1-5. Consult a Gr. concordance for the rest of the references.
Deriv.: epouránios (G2032), heavenly, what pertains to or is in heaven; ouránios (G3770), heavenly; ouranóthen (G3771), from heaven; messouránēma (G3321), mid-heaven, the midst of the heavens.
Syn.: parádeisos (G3857), paradise.
Ant.: gḗ (G1093), earth; geénna (G1067), hell, everlasting punishment; hádēs (G86), the state or place of departed spirits.

Interesting study.  Thanks, WW.  In my mind, heaven or heavens generally means the spiritual realm.
So then perhaps we could paraphrase the scriptures that mention "new heavens and new earth" like so:
"A new spiritual realm, more suitable than the old spiritual realm because it is designed for to be a dwelling place for all people and their Father. And a new earth which will be an integral part of the new spiritual realm and the location of the new holy city."
Perhaps the new earth and the new heaven will not be separate places, realms, or dimensions.