Everyone that teaches wrong things?
Or only those that teach false thing on purpose (for personal/political gain)?
So is a honest iman (muslim) a false teacher?
There is only one truth.
,,,,,but take LIGHT and place it on Glass....and a rainbow/coat of many colours/New Jerusalem comes forth
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 15, 2011, 07:38:28 PM
There is only one truth.
I agree, there is only one truth.... and that truth is found only in the Lord Jesus Christ.
A honest Muslim man is no different then any other person that is still walking in darkness.
As for a "christian" teacher being false ...... well as someone said on another forum "A heretic (false teacher/prophet) is someone who didn't go to the same bible school as you." :laughing7:
I know muslims teach the wrong thing. Many Christians teachers also.
So that is NOT my question.
I will rephrase it.
Say there are 2 pastors that teach exactly the same things. The fire and brimstone stuff.
Pastor-A really, honestly to his very best knowledge believes he preaches what the Bible teaches.
Pastor-B knows and believes in UR. But still teaches fire and brimstone for all sorts of reasons. Let's say to extort some extra tithes.
Pastor-B clearly is a :thumbdown: person.
Does the Bible make any difference between A and B?
Quote from: sheila on July 15, 2011, 08:09:50 PM
,,,,,but take LIGHT and place it on Glass....and a rainbow/coat of many colours/New Jerusalem comes forth
What are you saying? That someone (muslim, hindu, buddist, etc. etc......) may be reconciled to Father just because they are a good and honest person?
Or are we reconcilled when we come to agree with the truth that is found in and through Jesus only? Wether that takes place pre or post mortem.
IMO All roads DO NOT lead to the Father of Light.
Quote from: urpilgrim on July 15, 2011, 08:25:10 PM
Quote from: sheila on July 15, 2011, 08:09:50 PM
,,,,,but take LIGHT and place it on Glass....and a rainbow/coat of many colours/New Jerusalem comes forth
What are you saying? That someone (muslim, hindu, buddist, etc. etc......) may be reconciled to Father just because they are a good and honest person?
I'm not saying that. It's not about good or bad persons at all.
QuoteOr are we reconcilled when we come to agree with the truth that is found in and through Jesus only? Wether that takes place pre or post mortem.
That's not what I wrote either.
QuoteIMO All roads DO NOT lead to the Father of Light.
Imo that's what UR is about. ALL roads lead the God. It's just that most roads are detours...
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 15, 2011, 08:24:30 PM
I know muslims teach the wrong thing. Many Christians teachers also.
So that is NOT my question.
I will rephrase it.
Say there are 2 pastors that teach exactly the same things. The fire and brimstone stuff.
Pastor-A really, honestly to his very best knowledge believes he preaches what the Bible teaches.
Pastor-B knows and believes in UR. But still teaches fire and brimstone for all sorts of reasons. Let's say to extort some extra tithes.
Pastor-B clearly is a :thumbdown: person.
Does the Bible make any difference between A and B?
B :thumbdown: :laughing7:
But kidding aside, I believe that Father's grace will cover a multitude of sin and shortcomings in all of us. I alone am responsible before Father to seek out the truth and walk in the light that He has given me. I can't blame false teachers or prophets for what I believe to be truth. That is why the bible warns me about these kind of teachers/prophets and that it warns them too of the greater judgment that will be given them.
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 15, 2011, 07:25:46 PM
Everyone that teaches wrong things?
Or only those that teach false thing on purpose (for personal/political gain)?
So is a honest iman (muslim) a false teacher?
No christian preachers 100% truth, unless perhaps they are a chosen vessel such as apostle Paul.
But the world today is a big place, so God has to use the best he has got to bring truth.
I think the bible says some let themselves be deceived. I think there is a big distinction between, being an innocent lamb deceived by the dragon, and also being deceived because they like that deception and play ball and play their role in the deception. ( a bit like an actor who enjoys their role, more than the real life/truth) e.g the lord will never return.
40Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
45But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 15, 2011, 08:32:48 PMImo that's what UR is about. ALL roads lead the God. It's just that most roads are detours...
"Detours" That's an understatement. :laughing7:
Quote from: thinktank on July 15, 2011, 08:44:12 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 15, 2011, 07:25:46 PM
Everyone that teaches wrong things?
Or only those that teach false thing on purpose (for personal/political gain)?
So is a honest iman (muslim) a false teacher?
No christian preachers 100% truth, unless perhaps they are a chosen vessel such as apostle Paul.
But the world today is a big place, so God has to use the best he has got to bring truth.
I think the bible says some let themselves be deceived. I think there is a big distinction between, being an innocent lamb deceived by the dragon, and also being deceived because they like that deception and play ball and play their role in the deception. ( a bit like an actor who enjoys their role, more than the real life/truth) e.g the lord will never return.
40Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
45But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
:thumbsup:
URPILGRIM
nO, WHAT i SAID WAS,UNTIL YOUR EYES ARE ABLE TO DISCERN THE DISTINCTIONS OF TRUTH[COLOURS] FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES
LAYERS you shouldn't call someone a liar/FALSE PROPHET...OR[SAY THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM] :laughing7:
NOTHING THAT ENTERS MAN DEFILES HIM...BUT PASSES INTO THE SEWER....A GOOD MAN BRINGS FORTH gOOD THINGS OUT OF THE ABUNDANCE OF HIS HEART
IT IS WRITTEN...THEY WOULD DRINK POISON AND IT WILL NOT HARM THEM
Quote from: sheila on July 15, 2011, 08:59:59 PM
URPILGRIM
nO, WHAT i SAID WAS,UNTIL YOUR EYES ARE ABLE TO DISCERN THE DISTINCTIONS OF TRUTH[COLOURS] FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES
LAYERS you shouldn't call someone a liar/FALSE PROPHET...OR[SAY THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM] :laughing7:
Sorry, I did not mean to offend or anything. :mblush: I don't do well with riddles or poetic inferences, or whatever you call it :sigh: :laughing7:
I would agree with you that we should be slow to judge someone, for if it where not for the grace of God, there go I.
And in the "what i said" category .... for those of us that english is a second language.... please write what you mean and mean what you write ... or something like that :mshock:
grace and peace :boyheart:
Quote from: urpilgrim on July 15, 2011, 09:18:17 PM
Quote from: sheila on July 15, 2011, 08:59:59 PM
URPILGRIM
nO, WHAT i SAID WAS,UNTIL YOUR EYES ARE ABLE TO DISCERN THE DISTINCTIONS OF TRUTH[COLOURS] FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES
LAYERS you shouldn't call someone a liar/FALSE PROPHET...OR[SAY THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM] :laughing7:
Sorry, I did not mean to offend or anything. :mblush: I don't do well with riddles or poetic inferences, or whatever you call it :sigh: :laughing7:
I would agree with you that we should be slow to judge someone, for if it where not for the grace of God, there go I.
And in the "what i said" category .... for those of us that english is a second language.... please write what you mean and mean what you write ... or something like that :mshock:
grace and peace :boyheart:
:bigGrin:
Quote from: urpilgrim on July 15, 2011, 08:56:08 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 15, 2011, 08:32:48 PMImo that's what UR is about. ALL roads lead the God. It's just that most roads are detours...
"Detours" That's an understatement. :laughing7:
:bigGrin: Another way to look at the "all roads" thing is, all roads may lead to God, but all but one (the Way of Life) are roads to destruction. Most will meet Him in need of "destruction" of all not of God, until every knee bows.
"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Mt. 7:14
"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
--John 10:10
The thief is the false prophet. It is a matter of intent and motive. He is coming--to kill--to steal--to destroy.
It doesn't have to be 'religious.' For instance, I consider the media a false prophet.
no apoliogy necessary.......I wrote that from my own expierence of doing that :mblush: I USED TO BE A JEHOVAH'S WITTNESS..the 'troof'
Sorry, I didn't mean to be unclear to you. I have an 'ironic' sense of humour...and sometimes people don't know how to take me :mshock:
:HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: to you...but,I have been asked several times of late to clarify...and I will make more of an effort
"troof," that's funny too! lol.
Quote from: Molly on July 15, 2011, 09:26:09 PM
"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
--John 10:10
The thief is the false prophet. It is a matter of intent and motive. He is coming--to kill--to steal--to destroy.
It doesn't have to be 'religious.' For instance, I consider the media a false prophet.
Let's not forget Hollywood.
The minister of death.
Quote from: urpilgrim on July 15, 2011, 08:42:12 PM
But kidding aside, I believe that Father's grace will cover a multitude of sin and shortcomings in all of us. I alone am responsible before Father to seek out the truth and walk in the light that He has given me. I can't blame false teachers or prophets for what I believe to be truth. That is why the bible warns me about these kind of teachers/prophets and that it warns them too of the greater judgment that will be given them.
The Bible warns about them. But the Bible also say the false teachers will a recieve a double portion of :spank: (of they decieve babes)
All teachers are in a way false because none has the complete truth/understanding. (except Father, Son and HS)
Is every teacher called a false teacher?
Only those that are wrong more that x%?
Or only type-B?
Quote from: jabcat on July 15, 2011, 09:25:06 PM
Quote from: urpilgrim on July 15, 2011, 08:56:08 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 15, 2011, 08:32:48 PMImo that's what UR is about. ALL roads lead the God. It's just that most roads are detours...
"Detours" That's an understatement. :laughing7:
:bigGrin: Another way to look at the "all roads" thing is, all roads may lead to God, but all but one (the Way of Life) are roads to destruction. Most will meet Him in need of "destruction" of all not of God, until every knee bows.
"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Mt. 7:14
Most roads leads to a bath. Nice a foaming with fullars soap :laughing7:
"false prophet"
G5578
ψευδοπροφήτης
pseudoprophētēs
psyoo-dop-rof-ay'-tace
From G5571 and G4396; a spurious prophet, that is, pretended foreteller or religious impostor: - false prophet.
The word is a combination of two words:
G5571
ψευδής
pseudēs
psyoo-dace'
From G5574; untrue, that is, erroneous, deceitful, wicked: - false, liar.
and..
G4396
προφήτης
prophētēs
prof-ay'-tace
From a compound of G4253 and G5346; a foreteller ("prophet"); by analogy an inspired speaker; by extension a poet: - prophet.
Something is inspiring the false prophet--it's just not God.
Is pastor-A also a false teacher?
And you? Because you don't know everything?
Do we have 7 billion false teachers on this planet?
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 16, 2011, 04:36:42 PM
Is pastor-A also a false teacher?
And you? Because you don't know everything?
Do we have 7 billion false teachers on this planet?
It's a matter of the heart and of motive and of the source of the information, not knowledge.
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 15, 2011, 07:25:46 PM
Everyone that teaches wrong things?
Or only those that teach false thing on purpose (for personal/political gain)?
So is a honest iman (muslim) a false teacher?
I think it is those who CLAIM to be prophets and teachers of the truth. Those who CLAIM God chose them to teach the truth but teach things that are false.
But as you said "All teachers are in a way false because none has the complete truth/understanding. (except Father, Son and HS)"
The only difference is, some do not claim to have the whole truth, or teach, do as I say or else.
CHB
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ to all and on all them that believe: for there is no difference:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
--Rom 3
for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.
--Rom 3:26
For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
--Rev 19:10
you have the deceived...that speak from the spirit of the liar.........any false teachings that someone may unintentionally utter...will be burned up
[straw,wood etc] by His refining fire. Hower the spirit of the liar will be consumed with the breath of His coming There are many anti-christs.....
people deceived by this spirit. Paul is a good example, he was persecuting the body...but the Lord did away with that spirit with the breath of His coming.
It is said ,'I am the least of the apostles,and do not even deserve to be called an apostle,because I persecuted the church of God"
He typifies the tribe of Benjamin...the last born or least of the flock.
we have all been called out of deception from Babylon...His spirit will reveal misunderstandings,false perceptions....
Matt 25;45 I tell you the truth,whatever you did not do to one of these least of these,you did not do to me
It's so easy to have anger towards the liars.
But, if he can forgive, so can we. Because the flip side of an angry Paul is Benjamin, son of the right hand. And, the elder shall serve the younger.
"Benjamin"
H1144
בּנימין
binyâmı̂yn
bin-yaw-mene'
From H1121 and H3225; son of (the) right hand; Binjamin, youngest son of Jacob; also the tribe descended from him, and its territory: - Benjamin.
Quote from: Molly on July 17, 2011, 11:31:12 AM
It's so easy to have anger towards the liars.
But, if he can forgive, so can we. Because the flip side of an angry Paul is Benjamin, son of the right hand. And, the elder shall serve the younger.
"Benjamin"
H1144
בּנימין
binyâmı̂yn
bin-yaw-mene'
From H1121 and H3225; son of (the) right hand; Binjamin, youngest son of Jacob; also the tribe descended from him, and its territory: - Benjamin.
:bigGrin: :thumbsup:
A few points, false being a key word, a prophet who has false (mixed or selfish) motivations
"I am he who tries the reins and the hearts"
13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. 14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. 16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure , then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. 18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
False prophets
Tru prophets
"Let the prophets speak, two or three, and let the others judge(discern)"......" test all things hold fast that which is good"...."all may prophesy so that all may be edified"
All prophets need to be discerned whenever they prophesy regardless of track record, the living word is the discerner, in the council of brethren.
12 For the word of God is quick , and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
The heart is the issue:
24 But if all prophesy , and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. 26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together , every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
The issues of the heart- clear water prefered
The word prophet comes from a word that means "bubbling over". Overflowing with the heart of God. His word comes from His heart because He Is Who He Is.