This is an interesting topic simply because people seem to differ so much on this one. Everyone seems to have their very own unique idea of what is a wedding garment? I would like to think that I know what it is and I am staying neutral by not saying what I think it is.
We will all be naked.
This is why a man leaves his father and mother and bonds with his wife,
and they become one flesh.
25 Both the man and his wife were naked, yet felt no shame.
Matthew 22
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Notice here where the bible interprets itself where the wedding garment has a direct relationship to outer darkness and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
note...it is stipulated 'a man" among the many both good and bad....=tokogae=man of sin,son of pedition...or old man
of sin in all people that is not properly clothed in Christ...
the removal,also tied into..the wedding supper...the true words of God...with lies removed[spoken in name of God]
also,same principal in wheat and tares...removal of tares..with the burning of them.
all of these preceding..speaks of Him as a refiner,cleanser of people...the presenting spotless and blameless..as our
saviour.
OK, I still don't understand what "outer darkness" is? I'm a bit dense so please humour me. It almost comes across as a place and that, without God.
Can somebody help me here?
Jock
The wedding garment is immortality.
Our nakedness is our mortality.
For this mortal must put on immortality... 1 Cor 15
I have a question and I'm just going to throw it in here--If you have the opportunity to help someone but it means hurting others, some innocent and some guilty [if that matters]--what would you do?
Would you do nothing because it's better not to help than to hurt someone else?
Or would you help the one and hurt the others?
Quote from: sheila on May 15, 2013, 03:07:15 PM
note...it is stipulated 'a man" among the many both good and bad....=tokogae=man of sin,son of pedition...or old man
of sin in all people that is not properly clothed in Christ...
the removal,also tied into..the wedding supper...the true words of God...with lies removed[spoken in name of God]
also,same principal in wheat and tares...removal of tares..with the burning of them.
all of these preceding..speaks of Him as a refiner,cleanser of people...the presenting spotless and blameless..as our
saviour.
14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.--Rom 13
"put ye on" [the Lord Jesus Christ]
G1746
ἐνδύω
enduōen-doo'-o
From G1722 and G1416
(in the senese of sinking into a garment); to invest with clothing (literally or figuratively): - array,
clothe (with), endue, have (put) on.
Quote from: Jock on May 15, 2013, 03:56:54 PM
OK, I still don't understand what "outer darkness" is? I'm a bit dense so please humour me. It almost comes across as a place and that, without God.
Can somebody help me here?
Jock
Hi Jock , Everyone has their own concept of "outer darkness"
For me ,its easier to understand in this concept , like this
what rewards are for obedience ?
a closer and protective and intimate relationship with the Father and the Son and the rewards of 30 , 60 100 , fold in this life and the promise of eternal life and having the seal of God and Holy Spirit of truth the guide you , teach you and help you along the way ,under the proctetion of the Lords power and might , staying clean ,pure .
now what are the rewards for disobedience ? being cast into outer darkness ,
stumble , blind leading the blind , depart from me you worker of iniquity I dont know you , I belives its left in the dust to become serpents food [religious rulers prey]
Others may have more to share , just look under disobedience in the Word and see what those granted are
The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
--Isa 9
Luke 1:79 to shine on those living in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the path of peace."
Ephesians 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light.
well, Isaaih 25;7 on this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare a fest for all the peoples,,a feast of rich food for
all the people, a banquet of aged wine-the best of meats and the finest of wines..........
ON THIS MOUNTAIN HE WILL DESTROY THE SHROUD THAT ENFOLDS ALL PEOPLES...
that shroud is the deception of satan that deceives the whole earth. the curtain was rent..with access to the Holy of Holies
and intimacy with God... Those in the outer darkness do not enter in through Christ...He spoke....they do not enter
themselves..and hinder those who do[those blinded by the prince of this world] Paul said..they are blinded for a time.
and it is a decree of heaven that all men shall bear the image of the incorruptible one....the firstborn from the dead....
....surely the spiritually dead are in outer darkness....you have the 'quick' and the 'dead" the last Adam is a 'quickening
spirit" this spirit 'quickens' mortal men with the spirit of eternal life in God.
Jesus said..the hour comes when all men shall hear His voice and come forth from the grave....both the good and evil
thus you have the good andbad at the wedding feast.....the man without a garment...as the 'evil" contrast is cast outside
lying spirits,murdering spirits,idolatrous spirits,fornicating spirits..all the wicked contrast elements are removed...
Jesus Christ has the power by the finger of God to cast out wicked spirits from man..and He will and does do this for
all men..as our saviour and deliverer. The destruction of the ruler of this world whose works are wicked..and the
eternal reign of righteousness per the Kingdom of the love of His son...is great caue for rejoicing..and good news for
all the peoples.. The setting of captives and oppressed free,the binding up of the broken hearted...the recovery of sight
for the blind[those blinded by the prince of this world]
the Lord appears again...seperate from sin...and when you see Him,you too,shall be just likeHIM,SEPERATE FROM SIN
THERE SHALL BE NO SEEING THROUGH A GLASS DARKLY,BUT GREAT LIGHT! FOR THE SHROUD BE REMOVED
OFF MAN.
ARISE,SHINE FOR YOUR LIGHT HAS COME AND THE GLORY OF THE LORD RISES UPON YOU
SEE DARKNESS COVERS THE EARTH AND THICK DARKNESS IS OVER THE PEOPLES
BUT THE LORD RISES UPON YOU AND HIS GLORY APPEARS OVER YOU
Quote from: Molly on May 15, 2013, 04:02:09 PM
The wedding garment is immortality.
Our nakedness is our mortality.
For this mortal must put on immortality... 1 Cor 15
I have a question and I'm just going to throw it in here--If you have the opportunity to help someone but it means hurting others, some innocent and some guilty [if that matters]--what would you do?
Would you do nothing because it's better not to help than to hurt someone else?
Or would you help the one and hurt the others?
Molly , Hi , you have to ask yourself this question , Is it really helping them ?
Sometimes no matter how much you help someone , they are going to always need help .
most learn from mistakes from being shown mercy and , just as the woman caught in the act of adultery , the Lord said this to her , after the other judges we all convicted of sin in their own lives , they could not stone her according the the law
But Jesus said neither do I judge you , BUT GO and sin no more
If they are sorry and do repent change their minds , they will not do those things that got them in a bind in the first place
Some just prey on others kindness and always need your help and they never learn though suffering for doing wrong because they will get someone to bail them out of it every time
enabling them just makes everyone suffer loss and they never change
thats not always the case , but I do believe discernment its what the Lord is taking about in those cases .
I know you pray about it , you will know soon enough what the Lord would have you to do .
Quote from: sheila on May 15, 2013, 04:42:31 PM
well, Isaaih 25;7 on this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare a fest for all the peoples,,a feast of rich food for
all the people, a banquet of aged wine-the best of meats and the finest of wines..........
ON THIS MOUNTAIN HE WILL DESTROY THE SHROUD THAT ENFOLDS ALL PEOPLES...
that shroud is the deception of satan that deceives the whole earth. the curtain was rent..with access to the Holy of Holies
and intimacy with God... Those in the outer darkness do not enter in through Christ...He spoke....they do not enter
themselves..and hinder those who do[those blinded by the prince of this world] Paul said..they are blinded for a time.
and it is a decree of heaven that all men shall bear the image of the incorruptible one....the firstborn from the dead....
....surely the spiritually dead are in outer darkness....you have the 'quick' and the 'dead" the last Adam is a 'quickening
spirit" this spirit 'quickens' mortal men with the spirit of eternal life in God.
Jesus said..the hour comes when all men shall hear His voice and come forth from the grave....both the good and evil
thus you have the good andbad at the wedding feast.....the man without a garment...as the 'evil" contrast is cast outside
lying spirits,murdering spirits,idolatrous spirits,fornicating spirits..all the wicked contrast elements are removed...
Jesus Christ has the power by the finger of God to cast out wicked spirits from man..and He will and does do this for
all men..as our saviour and deliverer. The destruction of the ruler of this world whose works are wicked..and the
eternal reign of righteousness per the Kingdom of the love of His son...is great caue for rejoicing..and good news for
all the peoples.. The setting of captives and oppressed free,the binding up of the broken hearted...the recovery of sight
for the blind[those blinded by the prince of this world]
the Lord appears again...seperate from sin...and when you see Him,you too,shall be just likeHIM,SEPERATE FROM SIN
THERE SHALL BE NO SEEING THROUGH A GLASS DARKLY,BUT GREAT LIGHT! FOR THE SHROUD BE REMOVED
OFF MAN.
ARISE,SHINE FOR YOUR LIGHT HAS COME AND THE GLORY OF THE LORD RISES UPON YOU
SEE DARKNESS COVERS THE EARTH AND THICK DARKNESS IS OVER THE PEOPLES
BUT THE LORD RISES UPON YOU AND HIS GLORY APPEARS OVER YOU
9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah,
Behold your God!--Isa 40
Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.
5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
--Isa 60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU6TzPvxrh8
Quote from: rosered on May 15, 2013, 04:49:16 PM
Quote from: Molly on May 15, 2013, 04:02:09 PM
The wedding garment is immortality.
Our nakedness is our mortality.
For this mortal must put on immortality... 1 Cor 15
I have a question and I'm just going to throw it in here--If you have the opportunity to help someone but it means hurting others, some innocent and some guilty [if that matters]--what would you do?
Would you do nothing because it's better not to help than to hurt someone else?
Or would you help the one and hurt the others?
Molly , Hi , you have to ask yourself this question , Is it really helping them ?
Sometimes no matter how much you help someone , they are going to always need help .
most learn from mistakes from being shown mercy and , just as the woman caught in the act of adultery , the Lord said this to her , after the other judges we all convicted of sin in their own lives , they could not stone her according the the law
But Jesus said neither do I judge you , BUT GO and sin no more
If they are sorry and do repent change their minds , they will not do those things that got them in a bind in the first place
Some just prey on others kindness and always need your help and they never learn though suffering for doing wrong because they will get someone to bail them out of it every time
enabling them just makes everyone suffer loss and they never change
thats not always the case , but I do believe discernment its what the Lord is taking about in those cases .
I know you pray about it , you will know soon enough what the Lord would have you to do .
Thanks, rosered. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Jock on May 15, 2013, 03:56:54 PM
OK, I still don't understand what "outer darkness" is? I'm a bit dense so please humour me. It almost comes across as a place and that, without God.
Can somebody help me here?
Jock
It's the valley of the shadow of death--where we are now--well, where we were before Christ.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
-Psa 23
Quote from: Molly on May 15, 2013, 04:39:12 PM
The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
--Isa 9
Luke 1:79 to shine on those living in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the path of peace."
Ephesians 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light.
good ones here is another
Jesus Is the Light of the World
12 Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not
walk in the darkness, but will have the
Light of life the Light of Life ! and outer darkness
must mean still in death , and cast out of the Lords house finding more wicked spirits to bind with .
better to have never known the righteousness of God because the last state of that man is worse than the first
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from where I came out; and when he is come, he finds [it] empty, swept, and garnished.Then goes he,
and takes with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last [state] of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
Quote from: Molly on May 15, 2013, 05:04:41 PM
Quote from: Jock on May 15, 2013, 03:56:54 PM
OK, I still don't understand what "outer darkness" is? I'm a bit dense so please humour me. It almost comes across as a place and that, without God.
Can somebody help me here?
Jock
It's the valley of the shadow of death--where we are now--well, where we were before Christ.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
-Psa 23
yes !! perfectly said , well done !! my computer is downloading and so slow ,it took forever for this above reply lol ... :iagree: same things said !!!
Quote from: Molly on May 15, 2013, 04:54:06 PM
Quote from: sheila on May 15, 2013, 04:42:31 PM
well, Isaaih 25;7 on this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare a fest for all the peoples,,a feast of rich food for
all the people, a banquet of aged wine-the best of meats and the finest of wines..........
ON THIS MOUNTAIN HE WILL DESTROY THE SHROUD THAT ENFOLDS ALL PEOPLES...
that shroud is the deception of satan that deceives the whole earth. the curtain was rent..with access to the Holy of Holies
and intimacy with God... Those in the outer darkness do not enter in through Christ...He spoke....they do not enter
themselves..and hinder those who do[those blinded by the prince of this world] Paul said..they are blinded for a time.
and it is a decree of heaven that all men shall bear the image of the incorruptible one....the firstborn from the dead....
....surely the spiritually dead are in outer darkness....you have the 'quick' and the 'dead" the last Adam is a 'quickening
spirit" this spirit 'quickens' mortal men with the spirit of eternal life in God.
Jesus said..the hour comes when all men shall hear His voice and come forth from the grave....both the good and evil
thus you have the good andbad at the wedding feast.....the man without a garment...as the 'evil" contrast is cast outside
lying spirits,murdering spirits,idolatrous spirits,fornicating spirits..all the wicked contrast elements are removed...
Jesus Christ has the power by the finger of God to cast out wicked spirits from man..and He will and does do this for
all men..as our saviour and deliverer. The destruction of the ruler of this world whose works are wicked..and the
eternal reign of righteousness per the Kingdom of the love of His son...is great caue for rejoicing..and good news for
all the peoples.. The setting of captives and oppressed free,the binding up of the broken hearted...the recovery of sight
for the blind[those blinded by the prince of this world]
the Lord appears again...seperate from sin...and when you see Him,you too,shall be just likeHIM,SEPERATE FROM SIN
THERE SHALL BE NO SEEING THROUGH A GLASS DARKLY,BUT GREAT LIGHT! FOR THE SHROUD BE REMOVED
OFF MAN.
ARISE,SHINE FOR YOUR LIGHT HAS COME AND THE GLORY OF THE LORD RISES UPON YOU
SEE DARKNESS COVERS THE EARTH AND THICK DARKNESS IS OVER THE PEOPLES
BUT THE LORD RISES UPON YOU AND HIS GLORY APPEARS OVER YOU
9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!
--Isa 40
Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.
5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
--Isa 60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU6TzPvxrh8
:HeartThrob: :iagree: love both replies :thumbsup:
Quote from: mplsfitter539 on May 15, 2013, 04:25:31 AM
This is an interesting topic simply because people seem to differ so much on this one. Everyone seems to have their very own unique idea of what is a wedding garment? I would like to think that I know what it is and I am staying neutral by not saying what I think it is.
I have always thought the wedding garment is being clothed with Christ ,
the Bride /true church being joined to Christ is described as those "is the righteousness of saints"
How does one become righteous but by the Blood of Jesus Christ /Lamb of God by coming out of the great tribulation , going in as Joshua did in ZECH 3 and changed though God removing the iniquity !
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir,you know . And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have
washed their robes, and
made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be
arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. I put it here to read , without having to look it up
3 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and [a]Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him. 2 The Lord said to Satan, "The Lord rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, the Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you!
Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?" 3
Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments and standing before the angel. 4 He spoke and said to those who were standing before him, saying,
"Remove the filthy garments from him." Again he said to him, "See, I have taken your iniquity away from you and will clothe you with festal robes."
5 Then I said, "Let them put a clean turban on his head." So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him with garments, while the angel of the Lord was standing by.
6 And the angel of the Lord admonished Joshua, saying, 7 "Thus says the Lord of hosts, 'If you will walk in My ways and if you will perform My service, then you will also govern My house and also have charge of My courts, and I will grant you free access among these who are standing here.
comparing scripture with scriptures
Quote from: Molly on May 15, 2013, 04:02:09 PM
The wedding garment is immortality.
Our nakedness is our mortality.
For this mortal must put on immortality... 1 Cor 15
I have a question and I'm just going to throw it in here--If you have the opportunity to help someone but it means hurting others, some innocent and some guilty [if that matters]--what would you do?
Would you do nothing because it's better not to help than to hurt someone else?
one
Or would you help the one and hurt the others?
Molly thank you for this reply. I agree that the garment is immortality.
As you can see there are many opinions on this. I didn't know if I would find anyone else who agreed on this.
The wedding celebration.
The man thrown out was the man in charge of the
temple and in charge of the sacrifices offered in the temple.
We do not bring our own clothes, we show up naked.
It is during the actual wedding vows that we are clothed with immortality.
The man thrown out of the wedding banquet is Satan.
IMO.
"...Who are these which are arrayed in white robes? and from what condition (pothen) came they?..." "...These are they which came out of (erchomai) great affliction and anguish (thlipsis), and have washed (actively) their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
I understand these "robes" to be the spiritual body (in contrast to the natural body) which has become purified through suffering by following the Way and the Truth laid down by Christ, which is moral and noble in the truest spiritual sense. These are the "robes" which "clothe" the spirit within which was made out of the Image of God in the beginning. Robes which once were dirty but now are clean, because the spiritual body must become "fashioned unto the likeness of Christ" - and He has ordained all shall attain such in due time.
This designates a process of spiritualisation so as to negate the absurdity of a belief that a man's life lived in foul grossness and utter debauchery from beginning to end does not become instantly transported to a spiritualised heaven by simply accepting, on his death bed, a metaphysical notion of salvation in his mind - a spiritual state to where those who, through tribulation, have attained no less.
Christ showed the Way, simple, uncomplicated, clear, pure - but man chooses to avoid it by surrounding it with dogmas of which He never spoke or never intended should be attributed to Him.
Jock,
Matthew 25
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
This is the parable of the talents. In verse thirty the unworthy slave is cast into outer darkness. Outer darkness exists right now and many are in it. Most here at Tentmaker are not in it (outer darkness). One thing I have learned is that seeking God every minute of every day will keep you from being in the "outer darkness" :banana:
mplsfitter539. Seeking God every minute of every day is impossible unless it is in the heart. In my heart, I seek him (pray without ceasing). God actually keeps me by His love and power, almost like a tractor beam in Star Wars. Is that what you mean?
:Peace2:
I tend to believe that outer darkness is "spiritual blindness". Saul was struck blind on the road to Damascus. It took God to send Ananias to lay hands on him.
And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I [am here], Lord.
Act 9:11 And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for [one] called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
Act 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting [his] hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
Act 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: Act 9:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
The Lord can forgive sin and restore a man's sight, not only to see physically, but to see in Spirit. Glory to God.
Quote from: Jock on May 17, 2013, 11:32:45 AM
mplsfitter539. Seeking God every minute of every day is impossible unless it is in the heart. In my heart, I seek him (pray without ceasing). God actually keeps me by His love and power, almost like a tractor beam in Star Wars. Is that what you mean?
:Peace2:
Philippians 4
13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Luke 1:37
For with God nothing shall be impossible.
Jock I really like the questions you ask. You are really seeking God with your heart and its obvious. Thank you for coming into the Tentmaker family.
regarding those who were cast in outer darkness...those who say they see and their sin remains..blinded for a time.....
those who if they knew He was the King of Glory,would not have crucified Him. Gnashed their teeth..become jealous
of a nation that was not ntion. Acts 7;54 when they heard this,they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him.
Stephen said ,'Look! I see heaven opened,and the son of God standing at the right hand of God"
at this they covered their ears. These religious leaders..had not love for the Father or son..or truth........he that has not..
even what he thinks he has,will be taken from him...and given to another...thus....Israel...was set aside in blindness.....
and those who would receive Him...entered the kingdom of heaven.......the harlots and tax-collectors entered in before them
mplsfitter539 Thanks for the nice welcome. I don't know that I agree fully with everything here but most of the time I can eat of Christ and feed my spirit. :dsunny:
Jock.
Quote from: Jock on May 17, 2013, 04:18:12 PM
mplsfitter539 Thanks for the nice welcome. I don't know that I agree fully with everything here but most of the time I can eat of Christ and feed my spirit. :dsunny:
Jock.
Jock your questions here bring new light to subjects we have chatted about before. Once I was in a forum where they discouraged new members (noobs) from asking questions or bringing up topics which had already been talked about a number of times before. The advise given by the mods was to search the forum archives for that particular topic and read what they had already discussed. They never really assumed that maybe the noob had already read the old material and was looking for a fresh perspective on things. Sometimes I enjoy talking about some of the forum forbidden topics like the trinity. I have tried in the past to shine some light on it but Martin Zender does a great job in his dissertation on the fake trinity doctrine.
The wedding garment is several layers. The first layer is called katanot in Hebrew
Gen 3:21 21 To Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
כּתּנת / כּתנת
kethôneth / kûttôneth
BDB Definition:
1) tunic, under-garment
1a) a long shirt-like garment usually of linen
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from an unused root meaning to cover [compare H3802]
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1058a
Ain't that, well... just great? :Peace2:
I have no proof for it (yet) but I wouldn't be suprised there are four layers representing the number of covenants.
White Wings what you said is an interesting concept. I will have to study up some more on this subject. Thank you for your perspective.
I did a recent study on the wedding. I have lots of data. Still weeding out a few bugs and pouring it into a readable format (just lots of personal notes right now)
Did you know that on Atonement Day when the High priest went into the Holies of Holies he was wearing a wedding garment?
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 14, 2013, 08:12:24 PM
The wedding garment is several layers. The first layer is called katanot in Hebrew
Gen 3:21 21 To Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
כּתּנת / כּתנת
kethôneth / kûttôneth
BDB Definition:
1) tunic, under-garment
1a) a long shirt-like garment usually of linen
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from an unused root meaning to cover [compare H3802]
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1058a
Ain't that, well... just great? :Peace2:
I have no proof for it (yet) but I wouldn't be suprised there are four layers representing the number of covenants.
What is a "katanot?"
I have no wish to go off the thread track, so this a side bar and just one of my thoughts.
As you(WW) I am not an assumer, I have given some time(still do) on the "coats" of skin in Gen.3 I have mentioned before some time back that it is taught this was the first shedding of blood(killing animals) to get these coats, but from my study so far there was no mention of the Lord God doing any such thing, so I came to believe, still do, that the coats is our skin[which most certainly is a first layer]. And as you I have many self notes, but then again I, myself personally believe that Gen. 2 and 3 is an allegory. :dsunny:
Quote from: micah7:9 on August 15, 2013, 09:02:43 PM
What is a "katanot?"
Hebrew word for undergament that's directly on the skin. Also used as part of a wedding garment.
QuoteAs you(WW) I am not an assumer, I have given some time(still do) on the "coats" of skin in Gen.3 I have mentioned before some time back that it is taught this was the first shedding of blood(killing animals) to get these coats, but from my study so far there was no mention of the Lord God doing any such thing, so I came to believe, still do, that the coats is our skin[which most certainly is a first layer]. And as you I have many self notes, but then again I, myself personally believe that Gen. 2 and 3 is an allegory. :dsunny:
My view is that it was the very first step to prepare the bride bride of Revelation. Isn't that a great allegory?
I'm just presenting bits of information (that aren't just assumptions). Every Tentie has the right to totally reject or embrace the given info or everything in between. :Book:
I like it, "My view is that it was the very first step to prepare the bride bride of Revelation. Isn't that a great allegory?"
First step to Prepare the bride wow! But why of Revelation why not say the bride of Jesus Christ, He is the revelation. Right?
Why revelation. Because Revelation follows "wedding patterns". I'm not holding back anything. Seriously. All I write looks like unbased drivel I know. The problem with this stuff is that you have to know the complete Jewish wedding ceremony to see parallels. And even then many will reject it as false doctrine. When I was active on TM in the past I wrote everything down. Now my knowledge has doubled in the last 8 months I have written down nly fragments. I planned to make a website out of it but I struggle in finding a way to present it in a simple way. It's at least 20 pages.
So now you see me injecting very obvious info into many discussions. But I think it's only obvious for me because my head is completely filled with the wedding pattern. But I'm always willing to clarify. That's actually part of the 'pact with God' I wrote about in Welcome central.
:2c:
Quote from: micah7:9 on August 15, 2013, 10:53:04 PM
First step to Prepare the bride wow! But why of Revelation why not say the bride of Jesus Christ, He is the revelation. Right?
As I reread my answer and your question I notice I did a lot of :blahgreen: :blah: without answering.
As I read you question I suddenly thought about this:
Revelation means The unveiling. It's said it unveils Jesus. His glory, His mission and other stuff about Jesus.
My thought I just had is: "Wrong, it;s the unveiling of the bride"
You have to understand that during the bethrotal period a bride wore a veil. Only her eyes were visible. It meant she was declared holy and set aside. Nobody knew her identity. I bet the villagers did...
Anyway no boy would make a pass at her because she was already married.
The "mystery" imo is that the bride is uveiled. Nobody knew her. Now she becomes known because she for the first time appears in public without a veil.
I learn much from you my friend, but "But I think it's only obvious for me because my head is completely filled with the wedding pattern."(WW)
Shake your head, it all has a tendency together yet not come together, but rather to cuddle up in the flowing river in a small rill by the rocks. And as a trout who became hungry and over anxious, rises to the fly..with a hook. It made sense to me. :HeartThrob:
If it makes sense to at least one person it's time well spend. :winkgrin:
I'm not sure where exactly it fits in but the story of Rachel and Leah is important to understand.
Jacob married Leah by having sex* with her. He didn't know it wasn't Rachel because she was veiled. Since that moment Jewish tradition changed. A small ceremony was added just before they had sex. The groom lifted the veil (unveiling) to verify it was really his bride.
http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/Biblical-history-by-Astle/a/030511-CW-Women-of-the-Torah_2.htm
*=It was very hard to break a betrothal but once the marriage was actually consummed it was even harder.
actually the word 'wife' means hidden or veiled person.
I've wondered if Jacob having to serve twice as long to get his wife has anything to do with the law requirement
for the birth of a female child. the 7 dys for a male versus the 14 for a female.
I kinda see Leah as the law covenant..that misses the mark of 'perfection" such as love being the perfect bond of union
dim/weak eyes..small breasts. And Rachael , through the eyes of Jacob..the perfect one..due to his love for her
the unveiling may alsoo serve as the test of jealousy.[hour oof trial]..the woman's hair uncovered..........and if her desire be
unto her husband..the curses in the bitter water not harm her[curses under law covenant/death] and she be able to
bear a child[manchild caught up to throne/authority]
I see the little sister without any breasts..as the law covenant...and the sister whose breasts are like towers as the
new Jerusalem.
there was much rivalry between the sisters. some of the other books fill in some things. Such as Rachael when she found out
what was being done,objecting and being taken off so she would not clue in Jacob. So Rachael was also a 'hidden' one
from Jacob,too.
Quote from: sheila on August 16, 2013, 06:58:06 PM
I've wondered if Jacob having to serve twice as long to get his wife has anything to do with the law requirement
Jacob got both wives almost at the same time. He served 7 years before he got his first wife and 7 year after he got his second wife. So that's different to Leviticus 12 you seem to be referring to.
Maybe of use: http://tentmaker.org/forum/lounge/sons-of-jacob/msg137853/#msg137853
So WhiteWings, do you have a theory as to the identity of the Bride of Christ?
Believers, obviously.
But not all of them.
Always thought the bride was a select small number.
Now I'm open to the possibility (note the high error margin) that the bride is huge in number.
That requires some explanation. There are 4 covenant levels. The 4th is marriage.
But the 1st one qualifies 'you' to at the very least be present at the wedding.
I always assumed the first fruits/Barley was the bride harvest.
Now I doubt that because of the wedding pattern.
The bride could be the wheat harvest. The biggest harvest that was celebrated at pentecost.
There are 3 main groups.
The groomsmen. --> 144000 seal men.
The bride.
The guests.
The problem I have with my own theory is that the bride comes out of church.
BTW when I write church I mean group op believers of which some perhaps never visit the building called church.
On to the far out unorthodox reasoning....
Jesus is male. His head is male. His head is attached to a male body called church.
Eve is part of male body. Adam's rib. Adam's bride.
Jesus' bride comes out of His own "church-body".
The above is super obvious in part because everyone not being part of church isn't a believer in Jesus. So obviously His bride can't be among that group.
It's unknown who the bride is. She is still veiled. That's Christ's mystery.
It is easy, and common, to say that the Bride is the Church/church. However, the Church/church is the body of Christ, and Jesus the Christ cannot marry His own Body can He? No, we must look for another entity, IMO. :2c:
Adam did marry Eve.
Eve came out of his own body.
Jesus' bride comes out of His own body too.....
:2c:
I see - it looks like one of those types & shadows things...
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 17, 2013, 08:22:58 AM
Adam did marry Eve.
Eve came out of his own body.
Jesus' bride comes out of His own body too.....
:2c:
That is one of the most profound connections I have seen in a while. :iagree:
Adam and Eve are not married YET
The second/last Adam isn't married yet.
To my understanding marriage was a lengthy ceremony which could be bypassed by sex.
The moment Adam and Eve had sex they became married (if they weren't before the act)
Solomon's wife suggested to bypass all the rituals and just have sex so she can instantly be the wife of the man she so dearly loves.
Just my understanding of things.
Zipporah took a flint, cut off her son's foreskin, and threw it at Moses' feet.
Then she said, "You are a bridegroom of blood to me!" 26 So He let him alone.
At that time she said, "You are a bridegroom of blood," referring to the circumcision.[j]
I will not keep silent because of Zion,
and I will not keep still because of Jerusalem,
until her righteousness shines like a bright light
and her salvation, like a flaming torch.
2 Nations will see your righteousness
and all kings, your glory.
You will be called by a new namethat the Lord's mouth will announce.
3 You will be a glorious crown in the Lord's hand,
and a royal diadem in the palm of your God.
4 You will no longer be called Deserted,
and your land will not be called Desolate;
instead, you will be called My Delight is in Her,[a]
and your land Married;
for the Lord delights in you,
and your land will be married.
5 For as a young man marries a young woman,
so your sons will marry you;
and as a groom rejoices[c] over his bride,
so your God will rejoice over you.
This is only an observation on my part.
God created what we know as Earth and called it Good.
God put his seed of life in the earth.
Then the Lord God formed the man out of the dust from the ground
and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.
Then God put his seed of spirit,
into Man (Mary)
The fruit of that union was Jesus.
Jesus is now the FIRST fruits of the Spirit
Both the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" Anyone who hears should say, "Come!"
And the one who is thirsty should come. Whoever desires should take the living water as a gift.
Will we have sex before the ceremony?
The main ceremony is sex although many other parts are important too. But that was between 1 man and 1 woman.
The marriage with Jesus must be vastly different because I'm absolutely not expecting a sex party with a billion people.
I'm more thinking about a strong spiritual union. But that stuff is way out of my league so I let others discuss that (with you).
Solomon's wife suggested to bypass all the rituals and just have sex so she can instantly be the wife of the man she so dearly loves.
Will we have sex before the ceremony?
Does the bride Love the groom so much that she wants to skip the
ceremony and go straight to Rapture.
Quote from: dajomaco on August 18, 2013, 07:57:28 AM
Solomon's wife suggested to bypass all the rituals and just have sex so she can instantly be the wife of the man she so dearly loves.
Will we have sex before the ceremony?
Does the bride Love the groom so much that she wants to skip the
ceremony and go straight to Rapture.
I kinda sure the answer to both questions is no.
Revelation seems to tell us when the marriage takes place. Solomon rejected the offer of pre marriage sex. Assuming Solomon is a pattern so will Jesus.