Jesus started to be the savior/Christ at.....?

[WhiteWings]

Maybe this helps a bit.

Was Jesus King of the Universe 2000 years ago?

[rosered]

 
This might and might not help us   Eccl 3 

  Solomon was given a  wisdom  about God   that no man had ever possessed  before and  left these Words  for us  , But Jesus proclaimed at His arrival  that a greater than Solomon is Here  speaking of this TIME   he was sent forth  out of God ...

9 What does the worker gain from his struggles?

10 I have seen the task that God has given the children of Adam to keep them occupied.


11 He has made everything appropriate in its time.

He has also put eternity in their hearts, but no one can discover the work God has done from beginning to end.

12 I know that there is nothing better for them than to rejoice and enjoy the good life.


13 It is also the gift of God whenever anyone eats, drinks, and enjoys all his efforts. [This scripture is a lot as Paul's with the Kingdom of God is  not eating and drinking , but peace and joy and the Holy Spirit .. and it would be though the revealing of the Lord Jesus Christ / Words  this is also by the Spirit of prophecy   that it would be known ]

14 I know that everything God does will last forever; there is no adding to it or taking from it. God works so that people will be in awe of him.

15 Whatever is, has already been, and whatever will be, already is. However, God seeks justice for the persecuted.

The Mystery of Injustice and Death
16 I also observed under the sun: there is wickedness at the place of judgment and there is wickedness at the place of righteousness.

17 I said to myself, "God will judge the righteous and the wicked, since there is a time for every activity and every work."

18 I said to myself, "This happens so that God may test the children of Adam and they may see for themselves that they are like animals."

19 For the fate of the children of Adam and the fate of animals is the same.

As one dies, so dies the other; they all have the same breath.

People have no advantage over animals since everything is futile.

20 All are going to the same place; all come from dust, and all return to dust.

21 Who knows if the spirits of the children of Adam go upward and the spirits of animals go downward to the earth?

22 I have seen that there is nothing better than for a person to enjoy his activities because that is his reward.

For who can enable him to see what will happen after he dies?

   WE  can now see so much more by the testimony of Jesus   that   whomsoever hears His Voice will  LIVE

EVEN IF HE DIES ..

   John 5 The Father and the Son

16Now because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews began to persecute Him. 17But Jesus answered them, "To this very day My Father is at His work, and I too am working."

18Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

19So Jesus replied, "Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. 20The Father loves the Son and shows Him all He does. And to your amazement, He will show Him even greater works than these. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom He wishes.

22Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son, 23so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.

25Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. 27And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

28Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice 29and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

30I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

This who witness is about raising the dead to Life from   the grave , now many think it is literal graves    and this is a truth and there is a spiritual  witness that many   that are flesh and blood  in bodies also are being raise to Life in the Spirit  of Christ whom is in God this WORD   is what is judging us now     

  This is a power message of Life   though the Sprint of Life  by the same Word  that His how faith comes by  hearing  what the Spirit is saying .   
To me it is the same  voices /  living  waters from above   in Genesis 1 
The Second Day: Firmament
6Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."

7God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.


8God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day....

a cup of cold water is the same   cup  that  those that  spiritual drink from will never thirst again   imho ...Matt 10  42And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is My disciple, truly I tell you, he will never lose his reward."


Hearing the living waters or voices  from above ...JESUS' "VOICE AS THE SOUND OF MANY WATERS"
Revelation 1, the Almighty.   ·
"And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters." (Revelations 1:15)

Ezekiel 43:2
and behold, the glory of the God of Israel was coming from the way of the east. And His voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory.

Daniel 10:6
His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult.




Revelation 14:2
And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and the loud rumbling of thunder. And the sound I heard was like harpists strumming their harps.

Revelation 19:6
And I heard a sound like the roar of a great multitude, like the rushing of many waters, and like a mighty rumbling of thunder, crying out: "Hallelujah! For our Lord God, the Almighty, reigns.
 

  This is the good news of the gospel preached though out the   whole  scorched earth .

[sheila]

..but the Lamb was slain before the founding of the world.In Him dwelt ALL the fullness...spirit without measure. How wasHeslain

before the founding of the world? unless to be apportioned out unto  them that were given the spirit in measure....to resurrect

into the fullness/make ONE/UNIONof the fullness inHeaven. He was rich and made Himself poor for us...sharing His inheritance?

bringing the poor into His dwelling place?  GivingHis life..spirit force portion/fullness..that we may live?

[WhiteWings]

14 I know that everything God does will last forever; there is no adding to it or taking from it. God works so that people will be in awe of him.


Is it really me that has to start bickering about the meaning of English words...  :laugh:

Eternal has no beginning and has no end.
Forever has a beginning but has no end.

In other words God is eternal but all of His creations are everlasting at best.

[rosered]

14 I know that everything God does will last forever; there is no adding to it or taking from it. God works so that people will be in awe of him.


Is it really me that has to start bickering about the meaning of English words...  :laugh:

Eternal has no beginning and has no end.
Forever has a beginning but has no end.

In other words God is eternal but all of His creations are everlasting at best.

  It is a circle of Life  , the end Revealing of Jesus Christ Revelation to/from  the beginning Genesis , and GOD SAID  /Spoke ,  it was good ...   till it be perfect /complete ...     :banana:

[WhiteWings]

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is , God.

[rosered]

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is , God.

  I do believe the Spirit of Truth and Word of Truth are ONE  and the SAME  bro T ...

13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

16They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth. 18As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world....

  THIS IS MY SON HEAR HIM
I believe Jesus  is GODS VOICE

1On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets.

2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son,

whom He appointed heir of all things,

and through whom He made the universe.

3The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of His nature,

upholding all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high....

[rosered]

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is , God.

  JESUS  would say this  in my opinion bro T , because he was both the Son of man and the  Son of God
SO  no flesh can boast   , we can only boast in GOD  as Jesus Christ always did 

[sheila]

for what good works do you condemn me.Idothe worksofthe Father....the GOOD AND PERFECT WILL OF THE FATHER...

      Hebrews 2;10 perfection comes from the suffering[of evil]being obedient unto the  death of our flesh.

   

[sheila]

 :thumbsup: Rose,I agree. He did not boast in his flesh..even though he had no sin..but exalted and glorified the Father's name.

I have not held back..I have declared thy name.

[WhiteWings]

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is , God.

  JESUS  would say this  in my opinion bro T , because he was both the Son of man and the  Son of God
SO  no flesh can boast   , we can only boast in GOD  as Jesus Christ always did

So Jesus rebuked those people for being 50% right, and explains with a teaching that's also just 50% correct?

[rosered]

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is , God.

  JESUS  would say this  in my opinion bro T , because he was both the Son of man and the  Son of God
SO  no flesh can boast   , we can only boast in GOD  as Jesus Christ always did

So Jesus rebuked those people for being 50% right, and explains with a teaching that's also just 50% correct?

Hi Bro T ,
 

  For me , I do not see it as   50 % wrong or   50% right    . But the true  nature in Jesus Christ  as a Son of God , a living creature and Holy Thing   that  it is .

Jesus was showing them a different way to think and  judge things , not according to appearances  , those things can be so deceiving   playing on our emotions  ,not what is  real  or correct  , but in error .

Those riddles , Like  if you seen me you have seen the Father .
  and in another place  , the  way you treat this  weak  little guy over here   it is the same  as you have  done it to me ..

This makes no sense what so ever to  the natural mind /carnal  minded  human being and seems so silly to them , but  uses logic to a proper or reasonable way of thinking about or understanding something. : a particular way of thinking about something. : the science that studies the formal processes used in thinking and reasoning.
 
This is why we have two minds that war with each other   and on one hand you have  some facts and on the other hand those facts do not line up  with these facts   that make it so confusing  , that makes everyone [double minded ]  and  unstable  reasoning .
  I do believe this is why we have the scriptures to line us  out , in a narrow path of life  and off that broad path of confusion and  destruction and  loss .

  The scripture that  we consider is Jesus Christ taking ''every thought captive ''  from a mind that is an enemy  against the Spirit , so   this  natural mind    is an enemy  and all about death    and loss   and suffering   etc  ,all temporary  and bad  things   and so  Jesus mind would  take  this mind  and bind it up  in  captivity , so the mind of Christ  can rule over your body and emotions  and plant good thoughts of  truth  and  hope in there to grow  and mature , cutting off the bad  thoughts  so they cannot mature , burn them up  by the fire of His jealousy  and love for us  all ,
and give us some kind of  peace and rest   and hope  now  in this life  and  most certainly   in the life  that is coming  to everyone   when death is utterly  destroyed and  is Christ  full on power over death . "Christ" is not Jesus' last name (surname). "Christ" comes from the Greek word Christos, meaning "anointed one" or "chosen one." This is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word Mashiach, or "Messiah." "Jesus" is the Lord's human name given to Mary by the angel Gabriel (Luke 1:31).

  Messiah  meaning the anointed  One chosen by the Holy Spirit  ,the promised deliverer of the Jewish nation prophesied in the Hebrew Bible.
2.
a leader or savior of a particular group or cause. 
Just as Joshua was   in His time [Day ] so is Jesus Christ in His  time [Day]
  this is the rest  promised of God  from the toil of vanity    to the cause of Gods glory and  work raising  the dead to Life again
  given them  entrance  to  rest   in Him  doing the works on the   Sabbath  rest [the 7th Day ]   Genesis 2 The Seventh Day: God Rests
1Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made....

Hebrews 4 The Sabbath Rest
...7God again designated a certain day as "Today," when a long time later He spoke through David, as was already stated: "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts." 8Now if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God....


 

  Jesus  heals on the Sabbath day is it lawful to    do good   on the Sabbath rest or evil ? 
  3So Jesus asked the experts in the law and the Pharisees, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath or not?"

4But they remained silent.    Jesus heals on the Sabbath  3 He told the man with the shriveled hand, "Stand before us." 4 Then he said to them, "Is it lawful to do good on the Sabbath or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they were silent.


In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions." Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."
   
I am more than convinced   that the 1000 year reign of Christ   or the Day of the Lord  is the Sabbath rest   
Jesus is doing the works  of the Father  in that DAY     so HE can present  TO THE LIVING GOD   the  living , completely destroying death, abolishing the death covenant  of old  as to annulling it   . death is the last enemy to be destroyed

  till God be all in all

  1 Corinthians  15 The Order of Resurrection  to LIFE IN CHRIST . Christ's Resurrection Guarantees Ours
20 But as it is, Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

23 But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; afterward, at his coming, those who belong to Christ.

24 Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when he abolishes all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he puts all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be abolished is death.

...27For "God has put everything under His feet." Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him.

28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.

29If these things are not so, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?...

The Holy Spirit being poured out on all flesh is the guarantee   of baptism   from the death to Life again   by hearing His Voice and Live ...

  Everyone  will rise in Christ  , His Word and Spirit  of truth is the guarantee and promise of Gods glory  IN THE END  THAT GOD WILL BE ALL IN ALL  . :dsunny: :banana: :HeartThrob:   

So sorry this has been made long , but it is the scriptures that must  line up   and must be included to   be the proof   of Truth  we all love and live by  in the Spirit of Life in Christ   ,
  The Revelations of the Lord Jesus CHRIST   is  showing us how it is done , The veils removed by His glorified flesh , It is Johns vision , witness and testimony of the Day of the LORD being in the Sprint on the Lords  SABBATH  DAY  /1000 year reign ..   
     A SON DAY ,  a  REVEALING of   the sons of God  to the glory of the Fathers Love  for the world   that gave us His Son /Sabbath day  rest  ...   

[WhiteWings]

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is , God.

  JESUS  would say this  in my opinion bro T , because he was both the Son of man and the  Son of God
SO  no flesh can boast   , we can only boast in GOD  as Jesus Christ always did

So Jesus rebuked those people for being 50% right, and explains with a teaching that's also just 50% correct?

Hi Bro T ,
 

  For me , I do not see it as   50 % wrong or   50% right    . But the true  nature in Jesus Christ  as a Son of God , a living creature and Holy Thing   that  it is .

Sorry but I can't agree.

Jesus could for example have said: Yes, I'm very good because I do everything I see the very good Father do.

That way He would have giving full credits/praise to theFather and still not saying He's (Jesus) is not good.
But He made it clear only theFather is good. That's what He literally said.

Sure I can agree Jesus was giving words of wisdom/teaching as He always did. But the thing is that His teachings where always 100% true. Never a imperfect compromise as a teaching tool. Jesus was very capable to explain everything without resorting to half truths as a teaching tool.

That was one of the reasons He was hated so much. He had a perfect answer for every question and not a single letter could be even remotely used to attack Him with.


:2c:

[rosered]

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is , God.

  JESUS  would say this  in my opinion bro T , because he was both the Son of man and the  Son of God
SO  no flesh can boast   , we can only boast in GOD  as Jesus Christ always did

So Jesus rebuked those people for being 50% right, and explains with a teaching that's also just 50% correct?

Hi Bro T ,
 

  For me , I do not see it as   50 % wrong or   50% right    . But the true  nature in Jesus Christ  as a Son of God , a living creature and Holy Thing   that  it is .

Sorry but I can't agree.

Jesus could for example have said: Yes, I'm very good because I do everything I see the very good Father do.

That way He would have giving full credits/praise to theFather and still not saying He's (Jesus) is not good.
But He made it clear only theFather is good. That's what He literally said.

Sure I can agree Jesus was giving words of wisdom/teaching as He always did. But the thing is that His teachings where always 100% true. Never a imperfect compromise as a teaching tool. Jesus was very capable to explain everything without resorting to half truths as a teaching tool.

That was one of the reasons He was hated so much. He had a perfect answer for every question and not a single letter could be even remotely used to attack Him with.


:2c:

  I agree 100%   :iagree:   Only God can praise  His son .

  and Jesus could only Praise His Father

[WhiteWings]

In Matt 17 Moses and Elijah show up.
If they were not just a 'trick' of God how could they be there without being raised to life again?
They never gave honor to Jesus (on earth) because they never met Him. They were holy men but never had the luxery like we have to state things like "Jesus was nailed to the cross but 3 days later He met Mary"

On top of that the most important point for this discussion; the death of Jesus was still months away. So He hasn't paid the wages of death yet back then.

:2c:

[rosered]

In Matt 17 Moses and Elijah show up.
If they were not just a 'trick' of God how could they be there without being raised to life again?
They never gave honor to Jesus (on earth) because they never met Him. They were holy men but never had the luxery like we have to state things like "Jesus was nailed to the cross but 3 days later He met Mary"

On top of that the most important point for this discussion; the death of Jesus was still months away. So He hasn't paid the wages of death yet back then.

:2c:

  Good question ,
  I have wondered to   WW .

But other scriptures tells us   that they were   many predestined   in Christ/anointed for a certain purpose  already  , Like Moses and Elijah all the old testament  witnesses   , but those things were hidden , a mystery  , done behind the veil .

  It was not till   the fullness of time Christ come in the flesh   , this time as  the son of man and son of God    to go to the cross as a Open Show of His authority  over the world

But He was always Apha  and  is and will be Omega .  First & last .

Colossians 1:16
For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Colossians 2:10
And you have been made complete in Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.

[marie glen]

In Matt 17 Moses and Elijah show up.
If they were not just a 'trick' of God how could they be there without being raised to life again?
They never gave honor to Jesus (on earth) because they never met Him. They were holy men but never had the luxery like we have to state things like "Jesus was nailed to the cross but 3 days later He met Mary"

On top of that the most important point for this discussion; the death of Jesus was still months away. So He hasn't paid the wages of death yet back then.

:2c:

Elijah was taken up to heaven.. I've thought perhaps the writer was wrong and the second guy was Enoch.. but that would be merely some sort of wild guess.. That and the two witnesses are a mystery to me..

In the Old Testament of course, the animal sacrifices represented Jesus' sacrifice and were accounted like it, yet had to be repeated as the blood of animals could not remedy the situation like the life blood of Jesus..

He was slain from the foundation/blueprint of the world..

I think His saying "why do you call me good?" Implied, "being a man like you" - The speaker implying that a man can be "good".. Jesus speaking from the position of man..  I've wondered about the verse "the captain of their salvation made perfect" - tested/tempered/made stronger - "through the things He suffered" because I think of Him as always perfect, which I have no doubt of..

He became my savior when I found out about it.. Yet while I was yet a sinner He died for me, so actually was my savior when He paid the price ("slain from the foundation"?).. But as sustainer, preserver, all things made through Him.. From the Father's point of view, always the savior? Or became savior when He physically paid the price.. but the OT sacrifices were a type and figure (but also substance?) until the real thing..

He 'became' savior when it was needed? "Slain at the foundation of the world" but the rebel angels having rebelled in thought before the creation of the universe.. as by time Eden the rebel thinking was fully matured/fully rotten.. And we know fruit takes time to mature..

[WhiteWings]

But Jesus' had to be Lamb without blemish, to be able to pay the wages of sin.

Without blemish = good

Some understand Eliyah been taken to heaven as never died. Personally I'm not so sure about that, but it would him appearing to Jesus less problematic.
Deut 34:5-7. Moses was dead and buried

In 1 Sam 28, Saul speaks with dead Samuel. But the views about differ too. Some say it was really Samuel, others think it was a demonic illusion.

[rosered]

 I can only  see that  everything written up to the time Jesus come in  the flesh body  in the appearance of sinful flesh ,  was doing the works of God and speaking only what the Father told him too   , because He knew what purpose he come to do    and that was open heaven  by the cross  and His own mortal death   showing us how it is done  , but was healing  and opening the minds and hearts of many  under the law of  sin and death  while he walked the earth  as a man    in mortal flesh  , but we Know He was  the Spirit of truth  and the great Sword   to divide those under the law od darkness and sin nature & death  and those   that were given  mercy and grace under the  new  law and living way of Life in Christ ..

  Everyone born of woman  is under the law of sin and death  , back than as well as now  , Till Christ comes 
    the transfiguration   was the law and prophets    with Jesus forming the head to rule   after Christ death  and the new covenant
was immediately  taken in effect    ..

That is why the urgency in so many scriptures tell us it is the last  hour .
  or the time is near     

  Or Jesus own Words we are to  believe it    ,  NOW IS THE TIME   John 4 ...22You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth."...

John 4:21
"Believe Me, woman," Jesus replied, "a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

John 5:25
Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

John 5:28
Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice

[rosered]

But Jesus' had to be Lamb without blemish, to be able to pay the wages of sin.

Without blemish = good

Some understand Eliyah been taken to heaven as never died. Personally I'm not so sure about that, but it would him appearing to Jesus less problematic.
Deut 34:5-7. Moses was dead and buried

In 1 Sam 28, Saul speaks with dead Samuel. But the views about differ too. Some say it was really Samuel, others think it was a demonic illusion.

  I believe their flesh died as in Adam all die , but  their spirits rose up   to Gods glory   from the earth they believed in God

  Gods Word   as truth as much as they  were given  to know [Spirit of measure ]
Only JESUS CHRIST had /has the Spirit without  measure .