troubles us?

[Thomas]

In this verse who is it that troubles us?

so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure,  which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;  since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you

Thank you for your op.

[Lazarus Short]

Surely it is those in this life from whom proceed persecutions and tribulations.  The structure of this Scripture dictates it.

[rosered]

Hi Thomas ,

    Would it not be the same  ones    that persecuted Jesus Christ   ?

  Scribe Pharisees and hypocrites   ,,,,,,,,

[marie glen]

Very good question!

The search (I posted the references below.. :smile: )
"those who trouble you" doesn't say WHO was doing the troubling, but it certainly is an interesting chapter.. (Chapter posted below)

But a cross reference in Galatians, which came up in the search "those who trouble you" may have the answer as to who was causing trouble in that early church. [Before the gnostics, was the legalists.. Judean believers who were energetically putting forth the idea that all (gentile) converts had to be circumcised (and follow all the law of Moses? - the tutor/'babysitter' until Christ in us) since Thess. were very early letters, and so was Galatians - "I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!" - Galatians 5:12.]

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https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?search=+those+who+trouble+you&version=NIV;AMP;KJV;NKJV;YLT&searchtype=all&spanbegin=52&spanend=66 search at www.BibleGateway.com provided 2 Thess 1:6

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Thessalonians%201&version=NIV;NKJV;KJV;AMP;YLT

The chapter -

2 Thessalonians 1 - Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


"1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, to the assembly of Thessalonians in God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2 Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ!
3 We ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because increase greatly doth your faith, and abound doth the love of each one of you all, to one another;
4 so that we ourselves do glory in you in the assemblies of God, for your endurance and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye bear;
5 a token of the righteous judgment of God, for your being counted worthy of the reign of God, for which also ye suffer,
6 since [it is] a righteous thing with God to give back to those troubling you -- trouble,
7 and to you who are troubled -- rest with us in the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven, with messengers of his power,
8 in flaming fire, giving vengeance to those not knowing God, and to those not obeying the good news of our Lord Jesus Christ;
9 who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,
10 when He may come to be glorified in his saints, and to be wondered at in all those believing -- because our testimony was believed among you -- in that day;
11 for which also we do pray always for you, that our God may count you worthy of the calling, and may fulfil all the good pleasure of goodness, and the work of the faith in power,
12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and Lord Jesus Christ."

Galatians 5:12 - written very close in time with the Thess letters - New King James Version (NKJV)

12 "I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!"

the Young's Literal says it like this: "O that even they would cut themselves off who are unsettling you!"

It's in Acts chapter 15 which gives the answer to that particular challenge, after Paul's first missionary journey, the Judean legalist "believers" had come to Antioch and were troubling the church there, Paul and Barnabas and some others were sent to Jerusalem to council with the apostles on the issue..

Acts 15:1-2
1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." 2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.

It's an interesting and enlightening chapter (Acts 15) - they sent back this letter to and concerning gentile/previous idol worshiper believers, with Paul and Barnabas and some brethren, one of which was Silas -

-- "seeing we have heard that certain having gone forth from us did trouble you with words, subverting your souls, saying to be circumcised and to keep the law, to whom we did give no charge,
25 it seemed good to us, having come together with one accord, chosen men to send unto you, with our beloved Barnabas and Paul --
26 men who have given up their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ --
27 we have sent, therefore, Judas and Silas, and they by word are telling the same things.
28 `For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, no more burden to lay upon you, except these necessary things:
29 to abstain from things offered to idols and blood, and a strangled thing, and whoredom - Concordant ISA3 program interlinear version says "to be abstaining from idol sacrifices and of blood and of strangled - from which keeping yourselves, ye shall do well; be strong!'"
[ http://www.scripture4all.org/download/download_ISA3.php ]

The 'end' of the story - verses 30 and 31 -

"So when they were sent off, they came to Antioch; and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the letter. 31 When they had read it, they rejoiced over its encouragement."
      :Peace2:

[sheila]

I always took Paul's comment on the circumcision group..and his speaking about wishing they would cut themselves off..as taking

the cutting [circumcize] to it's fullness[castration/cutting off male member] and quit sowing their seeds of discord/tares in the

congregation...and become like Eunuch's[the bride is promised unto Christ in marriage..and as such is not to be defiled by another]

[marie glen]

aha! I've come across the castration idea (conclusion) but I never carried it further.. "quit sowing their seeds of discord/tares in the congregation"

That Makes a LOT of sense! :thumbsup:

and, "become like Eunuch's[the bride is promised unto Christ in marriage..and as such is not to be defiled by another]"

Amen!! :thumbsup:

[rosered]

  I have thought about this  overnight long and hard lol :)       

This is what the Lord  gave though the searching for  truth  , it is a metaphor....

   The old  wine skins and the old wine when it is jarred     ferments and boils up    and if shaken to  hard blows up the  skins bags  that contained them they become sour and  like vinegar    ......
  they are the galled ones   that give vinegar to drink as wine   old wine , as it was   the old testament that spoke of the coming of Christ  , and when Christ stood before them they did NOT SEE JESUS AT ALL  ...

Those are the ones   that  trouble us , because they are troubled also    , they are the messengers of death NOT LIFE ...    those of sour grapes   whom put the teeth on edge     The wine of Gods wrath     being disobedient   children ,,,,     weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth    , still in outer darkness , because their deeds are evil and refuse to come to the LIGHT /TRUTH  , THEY ARE THE CRUSHERS OF THE NEW GRAPES       of the new and sweet  wine   freshly crushed grapes   in new wine  skins       in CHRIST   ...

BABYLONS CUP       

  Like Shelia  said , those of the circumcision  , those of the flesh    though the weakness of the flesh cannot keep the law     of God which is spiritual in nature
  those trying to conform the flesh into  a  glory and its full of corruption  and death and dead men's bones  ...     mixing of wine       the old and new causing confusion and every  scattering    and division     , not gathering into Christ     , Our new life  and living way   ...

  The stumbling blocks  whom  take offense      because of JESUS CHRIST  , BEING THE ROCK     and stone of stumbling   that  many fall by the wayside being disobedient to  which they were called , many are called but few   are chosen ...predicted long ago in many places ... an example in  Isaiah   Peter shares with us

  1 Peter 2
The Living Stone  by FAITH IN GOD  THOUGH JESUS CHRIST
...7This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"

8and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word,

and to this doom they were also appointed.


9But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

        THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD     :dsunny: