I'm a graphical kind of guy. Does anyone have good links for:
timelines (like biblical, jesus ministry etc) more specifically I'd like to see one related to the early church, and when the corruption began to leak in, regarding ET, pagan-ness. I know that a lot of it started while Paul was still alive, but things like when the word church started to be used, or big events like Justinians council.
maps of Jerusalem at time of Jesus, specifically around the temple, and mount of olives
any other charts, lists, maps that pertain to the Bible, Israel, Christianity etc.
Thanks
You need to get in a conference with WhiteWings and Molly they are quite knowledge able about the time tables. :icon_flower:
Quote from: redhotmagma on April 07, 2011, 10:42:41 PM
I'm a graphical kind of guy. Does anyone have good links for:
timelines (like biblical, jesus ministry etc) more specifically I'd like to see one related to the early church, and when the corruption began to leak in, regarding ET, pagan-ness. I know that a lot of it started while Paul was still alive, but things like when the word church started to be used, or big events like Justinians council.
maps of Jerusalem at time of Jesus, specifically around the temple, and mount of olives
any other charts, lists, maps that pertain to the Bible, Israel, Christianity etc.
Thanks
Corruption began to leak in almost instantly after Jese resurrected. At that time many converted to Christianity. Most tried to merge their former believes with Christianity. Part of the problem was that the Gospels simply were not written yet and when they were written almost no one had access to them. Books/scrolls were rare those days. Of course the mess really started when Constantine declared "Christianity" as the state religion.
As for maps. The layout of Eden = Layout of Temple = Layout of Jerusalem = Layout of the Bible
(http://www.pbnradio.com/news/code/displayIT.php?2009-10-17_THE_TEMPLE_MOUNT_-_PART_16)
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/christian_life/experiencing_tabernacle_4983.100.html
God only looks eastward. Adam and Eve were kicked out the eastern gate of the garden. The Temples faced east. Towards Golgotta were Abraham near sacrifice his son. That was on Golgota were David counted heads of his soldiers. The place of the altar of burned offering. The place were Jesus died. Jesus died at the exact moment as many sheeps that were killed for passover 31AD.
Just ask a little more specific question because "timeline" and pictures is a bit to vague... :winkgrin:
Ok WhiteWings more specifically,
Schematics of all the temples and tabernacle. I can't quite seem to get exactly how the camp was set up. I thought the camp was a square but then I looked at http://ldolphin.org/camp.html. The wording is kind of vague unless I'm missing some areas where the Bible talks about it.
I haven't been able to find the dimension of the temples (definitively at least) or the distance of camp to tabernacle. I think you had mentioned it in a post recently, associated with the square within a square.
How far was the west edge of holy of holies from the west end of tabernacle?
I can't find a good picture of Jerusalem (top down) that has temple, mt olives, where golgotha is, the 3 valleys. I'd like to see the w shape of the valleys (maybe you can't see it from pictures) all the maps I see cut off Mt. Olives.
I've read some conflicting things on the birth order of the sons of Israel (overlap with wives)
How do you know that eden=temple=layout of bible, and what is that layout? When you talk of the layout of the bible, are you talking about walking counterclockwise and the elements of the temple correlate to the books, the psalms for the stairs, megillot for the womens court, Daniel Chronicles at Golgotha? If so do the gospels and the new testament have "stations"? I would like to chart the above on multiple zoom levels from above Jerusalem, along with the Mazzaroth (which is another subject I haven't found any solid info on)
If you are speaking of a different layout of the bible please enlighten me. (I've read ELM's restoring the bible)
Timelines: (I know there are lots of timelines available, but there are so many conflicting timelines I know you have studied it a lot)
Jesus life in chronological order along with locations on a map
Jesus life through each gospel mapped out
order of conquests of israel mapped out with dates
dates of major prophetic events (I'm interested in Jeremiah being the axial event [ELM] and mirroring)
dates when books were written
Early Church:
I'd like to put together (if it doesn't exist) the chronological corruption of the gospel, having quotes from "fathers" about not revealing UR to masses, accepting pagan doctrine, when the word church was first in use etc.
I know thats a lot, and I don't need someone to do all my homework for me (I've already done quite a bit), but if its already compiled I'd rather not reinvent the wheel :Sparkletooth:
Thanks
Quote from: redhotmagma on April 08, 2011, 08:56:49 PM
Ok WhiteWings more specifically,
Schematics of all the temples and tabernacle.
There have been 2 Temples so far. Temple of Solomon and the one of ???. Both were (very likely) at the same location. The second Temple was greatly renovated by Herod (yep the Roman guy) Much larger and beautiful.
The above means there is no fixed size of the Temple. But (I'm quite sure) the holy and holy of holies have strict dimentions which have prophetic significance. It may sound odd but I think the 2nd Temple is actually the fourth.
Before teh first Temple of Solomon the temple was portable (tents and fence)
The first one was the garden of Eden . Read this: http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/christian_life/experiencing_tabernacle_4983.msg98042.html#msg98042
I think you must read the whole thread for a fuller picture.
(http://www.pbnradio.com/news/images/2009-10-16_IT_PlansForTheTemple.jpg)
Most detailed Temple layout I could find.
Click here for a large picture and a 19 page article (http://www.pbnradio.com/news/code/displayIT.php?2009-10-17_THE_TEMPLE_MOUNT_-_PART_16)
Note it's part of a 19 page Temple article. Scroll down for the article menu.
QuoteI can't quite seem to get exactly how the camp was set up. I thought the camp was a square but then I looked at http://ldolphin.org/camp.html. The wording is kind of vague unless I'm missing some areas where the Bible talks about it.
Strickly speaking it was a 2000 cubit / 3000 feet circle from the a centre point somewhere the artifacts in the inner temple. Later the Rabbi's cheated a bit by turning it into a square. Note it's the Sabbath days walk.
Jesus was crucified just outside the campl. Near teh point were the angel with the flaming sword blocked the entrance to the garden of Eden.
QuoteI haven't been able to find the dimension of the temples (definitively at least) or the distance of camp to tabernacle. I think you had mentioned it in a post recently, associated with the square within a square.
Can't remember square in a square.
QuoteHow far was the west edge of holy of holies from the west end of tabernacle?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tabernacle_Schematic.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/The_Desert_Tabernacle_%28Mishkan%29_-_Layout_and_Dimensions.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/The_Desert_Tabernacle_%28Mishkan%29_-_Layout_and_Dimensions_-_Full.jpg)
http://www.watton.org/studies&stories/tab/tabernaclearchitecture.shtml
http://www.the-tabernacle-place.com/tabernacle_articles/what_is_the_tabernacle.aspx
QuoteI can't find a good picture of Jerusalem (top down) that has temple, mt olives, where golgotha is, the 3 valleys. I'd like to see the w shape of the valleys (maybe you can't see it from pictures) all the maps I see cut off Mt. Olives.
http://www.returntogod.com/jerusalem/jerusalemmap.htm
http://www.returntogod.com/jerusalem/cityareas.htm
QuoteI've read some conflicting things on the birth order of the sons of Israel (overlap with wives)
Can you give an example?
QuoteHow do you know that eden=temple=layout of bible, and what is that layout?
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/christian_life/experiencing_tabernacle_4983.msg98042.html#msg98042
QuoteWhen you talk of the layout of the bible, are you talking about walking counterclockwise and the elements of the temple correlate to the books, the psalms for the stairs, megillot for the womens court, Daniel Chronicles at Golgotha? If so do the gospels and the new testament have "stations"? I would like to chart the above on multiple zoom levels from above Jerusalem, along with the Mazzaroth (which is another subject I haven't found any solid info on)
If you are speaking of a different layout of the bible please enlighten me. (I've read ELM's restoring the bible)
I'm speaking about ELM. (also read the Secrets of Golgotta and The Temple Jerusalem forgot)
QuoteTimelines: (I know there are lots of timelines available, but there are so many conflicting timelines I know you have studied it a lot)
Jesus life in chronological order along with locations on a map
Location I don't have. One 'location'.... Jesus likely wasn't born in a stable at all. But in a guest room of family or friends. There was no sheep, ox, shepherd near Jesus. The 3 men from the east arrived 15 months later.
Anyway some dates.
Jesus life through each gospel mapped out. (work in progress...)
Concieved 15 December 4 BC on Festival of Lights. (assuming an ideal 266 pregancy)
280 days would be 40 weeks. But not a festival day.
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Born 11 September 3BC. Just before the sun went down. 18:15-19:45 EST - Jewish New year.
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Circumcision: 18 September 3BC. Day of attonement (forgiving sins)
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Baptism: 18 September 27AD. Tabernacles
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Jesus reads in the synagoge: 29 September 28 AD. Rejoycing the Torah
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Start ministry???
---
28 November 30AD. 1150 days after start of ministry. (Daniel 8)
Total ministry lasted 3.5 years = 1260 days (360 day years)
BTW I think His ministry must have lasted 3+ years because only fruit on 3+ year old trees was acceptable as a first fruit offering.
---
Died on Thursday 28 March 31 AD - Passover
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Resurrection: Monday
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34 AD Gospel to Gentiles starts. 70 weeks ended.
--
70AD Temple destroyed.
Thanks so much. What date do u have for israel leaving egypt?
Quick note: All events surrounding the traveling star of Bethlehem and other signs are literal. Astronomy shows it really happend.
That's no easy question. Their 40 years of wandering ended at a Sabbath (possibly Jubilee) year. That should reduce the possibilties by a factor 7. Or 49 in case of a Jubilee year. Or 50 in another interpretation of a Jubilee year. But there is disagreement about the Sabbath/Jubliee cycle. Often because of religious bias. AFAIK all major events took place on special festival days or in festival years. Jesus is no exception to that. Some denominations put great importance in what day Jesus died. Commonly Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. But those days are linked to full moon. And the full moon is linked to Passover.
So by picking the day of His death the possible years are limited. Was the middle of the week an Wednesday? Or was it (also) the middle of Sabbath cycle? That demands the cycle to start on a different year. So imo lots of proof comes from starting with the desired answer and then find (as in create) proof.
All that combined causes the cycles be not 100% clear. Jews are no exception either. They don't even agree on their own calendar. All (?) agree there are 136 (???) lost years between the two Temples but the exact number is disputed.
All that combined makes the exact cycle is unknown. Personally I believe His ministry started at a Sabbath year and the Gospel to the Gentiles started 7 year later (the week of Daniel)
Those dates are not estimates. They have a accuracy of 1 day or better. For example Jesus was born on 1 Tishri - Jewish New year.
Gen 1:1 reads Tishri 1....
Unlike many on this forum I believe everything in the Bible happend literally. I think I have to explain literally a bit... :winkgrin:
The most important one that is part of the answer to your question is found in Revelation where a woman stands on the moon and is clothed with the sun. There was no real woman of flesh and blood standing on the moon. It was an optical illusion of star sign Virgo=Virgin=house of bread=Bethlem "standing" just above the moon. The sun was at that moment shining at the place of the womb of Virgo. Such alignements are quite rare. Even more rare if we take in account that wandering star of Bethlehem. Add to that secular records on when exactly Herod died and we can pinpoint things with great accuracy without denominational bias. imo...
From that date we can calculate when Jesus was "about 30" during Hus baptism. That's another point of dispute... What is about? And what is 30? Was Jesus a little over 30 years old? Or was He nearly 30 years old. Or do we use the inclusive count that basicly means Jesus was in His 30th year of life.
A baby starts at the age of 0 but in the 1st year of life. So in western way of counting Jesus was near 29 years old. That complicates things even more because Luke usually used a Gentile method of counting.
Lots of things don't exactly pinpoint years but rather narrow down the possibilities. If you collect and compare several bits of proof things are narrowed down until imo it becomes clear 27-28AD is the Sabbath year Jesus started His ministry. (Jewish years are from September to September)
QuoteWhat date do u have for israel leaving egypt?
Nothing exact (yet).
1443 BC they entered Canaan. Before September 1443 BC would be a Sabbath year. After would be a Jubilee year.
1443/1444 BC to start of His ministry is 30 Jubilee cycles of 49 years.
The exact year depend on when exactly Jesus started His ministry. Was it at baptism. After 40 days in the wilderness? When He read in the synagoge? Perhaps a little time after that?
That's importnat to know because the reading in the synagoge was after the new year an baptism before the new year.
Quote from: redhotmagma on April 07, 2011, 10:42:41 PM
any other charts, lists, maps that pertain to the Bible, Israel, Christianity etc.
The Divine Calendar (http://www.concordant.org/expohtml/TheEons/TheDivineCalendar.html) by A.E. Knoch