(1Cor 15:26) The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
What is the last enemy?
- First death?
- Second death?
- Both? If so in which order and why?
A very clear and simple question I think. But the implications are huge.
- If the first death is not destroyed then people keep dying as they do right now. It would, the way I understand it, mean there never will be a new heaven and earth.
- The second death for many equals hell. If that death is destroyed eternal torment simply can't exist.
- If both are destroyed things are truely passed away and everything is new.
The above 'statements' are just a few quick thoughts to give this thread a start/direction.
For He must reign, until He hath put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
We know Jesus is King for a limited time. So death can exist only for a limited time. Meaning neither ET or ED can be true.
Some will claim that simply means death will make no more casualties but people stay in the state they are in (heaven or hell).
(1Cor 15:55) O death, where is thy sting? O Hades, where is thy victory?
Hades is the grave. The empire of death. The Greek god of the underworld.
The victory of death/hades obviously is that many people are in that empire of death.
So does defeating death only mean it isn't able to make more victims?
(1Cor 15:56) The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
Read the above verse closely. Imo it contains lots of info. Nothing difficult but easy to mis a few points/implications. Well, I did.
It basicly says: death=sin=law=sting
Obviously it's about God's law.
"where is thy sting" ===> "where is thy law" ===> "where is thy sin"
God destroyed His own law. And in a way His own kingdom. Not His primary heavenly kingdom of course but the kingdom that had a purpose for a limited time.
Your thoughts.
O death, where is thy sting? O Hades, where is thy victory?
:Gdance: :bgdance: :banana:
YEAH!!!!!
That's my thoughts. :)
God destroyed the power, the deadly sting, of the law through Jesus Christ. The law itself is not destroyed.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
--Rom 8
Acts 13:39
Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.
QuoteGod destroyed the power, the deadly sting
What exactly is that sting?
a] The power to kill?
b] Death itself?
QuoteThe law itself is not destroyed
I'm not sure about that.
The law is never is never spoken of being everlasting.
The word used is olam. To avoid sidetracking this thread I just point to Jonah who was in the fish for olam and left after 3 days. In other verses we read olam being decades (slaves) and long times when God makes a convenant with Abram. Yeah maybe one of olam's meanings in ever lasting. If so we need a very strong context for that.
One of those olam laws was animal sacrifice. I think we can agree Jesus was lawfully the last sacrifice. So teh simple fact is sacrifices should have stopped the moment Jesus died (or perhaps when He rose).
Perhaps the law is still in place. But that's just theory. The most important fact is that the law isn't applied anymore. God no longer accept sacrifices. And likely is inslulted by them.
So, imo, that means the sacrifical laws are cancelled or put in a permanent dormant state. I think we can agree about that Molly?
Death is a law too. Wages of sin in death. I think it's Biblical to rewrite that verse as: Wages of sin is sacrifice.
So that day on the cross Jesus cancelled that law or made it dormant.
It's just like Obama saying everyone has to pay taxes but the IRS stops collecting taxes. In everyday use millions of Americans will say "we no longer have to pay taxes"
This is something I've been mulling the past few days. I woke the other day with the words "you have been set free from the law of sin and death".
For me this goes back to the garden. There are two trees in the center of the garden. Its possible that they are the same tree, since they occupy the same space. The TOKOGAE is flesh, which is where sin is condemned. It is the law in stone that brings death, if you eat of it you will surely die. It is duality, good and evil, right and wrong. Male and female, the two cherubs. The covering cast over all faces, the veil of death(the tokogae is our senses/physical world)
http://tentmaker.org/forum/book-of-revelation/carnal-nature-and-mark-of-the-beast/msg128857/#msg128857
The same law that brings death to those who are carnal minded, brings life to those who walk in the spirit. The gospel is sweet to us, but death to those who are perishing. The sharp two edged sword that divides is pain and death to those but freedom and love to us. The fire of God's presence is torture for those who have the spirit of fear, but cleansing, beautiful, divine love to those who Fear HIm.
We are said to have a heart of stone(law), but given a heart of flesh. We obviously literally didn't have a heart of stone, but the same heart is transformed from a dead thing to a living thing.
If you were to visualize this its like this:
Good-Life-Evil
cherub-sword-cherub
male-one-female (I'm not saying female is evil, just part of the duality)
Christ is the tree of life, christ is in us individually, and corporately as the one standing in the midst of the lamp stands. He is the sharp two edged sword of fire that is between the cherubim. The narrow path is the center. IF your eye be full of light, eye is singular.
I don't know if they are the same trees, but we don't see the tokogae in Revelation.
The sting of death is sin.
Death has a stinger called sin which contains a poison which puts us to sleep. That poison is the Law.
The power of sin is the Law.
If the Law no longer has power over us, then death has lost its sting, and can no longer kill us.
O death where is thy sting?
But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus the Messiah!
--1 Cor 15:57
QuoteThere are two trees in the center of the garden. Its possible that they are the same tree, since they occupy the same space.
Could be but I think it were fig and almond/olive trees
QuoteIF your eye be full of light, eye is singular.
It's not about a literal eye or eyes.
Eye represents the action of giving to the poor and otherwise needy.
Dark eye = stingy nature
Light eye = giving nature
Quote from: Molly on June 10, 2012, 03:55:19 PMDeath has a stinger
Who is the enemy? Death or the stinger.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 10, 2012, 04:02:30 PM
QuoteThere are two trees in the center of the garden. Its possible that they are the same tree, since they occupy the same space.
Could be but I think it were fig and almond/olive trees
QuoteIF your eye be full of light, eye is singular.
It's not about a literal eye or eyes.
Eye represents the action of giving to the poor and otherwise needy.
Dark eye = stingy nature
Light eye = giving nature
Isn't the menorah a mix of two trees?
I agree its not about literal eyes, the nature is exactly it.
Yes. It's an almond tree and it's cups that contain the actual flames are olive tree. It burns olive oil representing the HS
YES RHM!!! Being set free from the law of sin and death, we are walking in the Spirit!!
Also if you look at the cruxifiction.
Robber 1 - Jesus - Robber 2
All on one tree as you have said.
In christ, we are not under the Law but under Grace.
(Rom 6:14)
We have died to the law through Christ.
Rom 7:4
We have been released from the law.
Rom 7:6
The Law still exists but Jesus has met the righteous requirements of the law for us, so that through his righteousness, we might also have the righteousness of God through his Spirit.
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
--2 Cor 5:21
Righteousness equals fulfilling all the requirements of the Law. This is how immortality is achieved.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 10, 2012, 04:06:02 PM
Quote from: Molly on June 10, 2012, 03:55:19 PMDeath has a stinger
Who is the enemy? Death or the stinger.
Death has no power without the stinger.
O Death where is thy sting? is a mocking statement.
Romans bounces back and forth between law of sin and death/condemnation, and the law of life. Many times Paul uses the word law without making a distinction, which makes me think that the law is the same law.
The law of condemnation was nailed to the cross, buried in the ground, with adam/christs earthly body.
Christ turned the law of sin and death into the law of life.
This is what happened on the cross.
We died with Christ on the cross.
Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him.
--Rom 6:8
Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
Quote from: Molly on June 10, 2012, 04:22:47 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 10, 2012, 04:06:02 PM
Quote from: Molly on June 10, 2012, 03:55:19 PMDeath has a stinger
Who is the enemy? Death or the stinger.
Death has no power without the stinger.
O Death where is thy sting? is a mocking statement.
I know all that Molly.
Death is destroyed but it's stinger stays unharmed.
The stinger is a sword of a soldier/murderer.
(Mic 4:3) ... shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks...
Just a thought.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 10, 2012, 04:47:53 PM
Quote from: Molly on June 10, 2012, 04:22:47 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 10, 2012, 04:06:02 PM
Quote from: Molly on June 10, 2012, 03:55:19 PMDeath has a stinger
Who is the enemy? Death or the stinger.
Death has no power without the stinger.
O Death where is thy sting? is a mocking statement.
I know all that Molly.
Death is destroyed but it's stinger stays unharmed.
The stinger is a sword of a soldier/murderer.
(Mic 4:3) ... shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks...
Just a thought.
Maybe they beat their swords into plowshares because swords are useless against Immortals.
Ok, the word is the law.
Meaning the law is detroyed or transformed.
The Law is not destroyed.
Nor is it transformed.
Something else happens. The Law is fulfilled.
Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy them, but to fulfill them,
--Mat 5:17
That was 2000 years ago.
The last enemy dies at least 1000 years into the future.
QuoteThe Law is fulfilled
What exactly does that mean according to you?
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 10, 2012, 05:40:36 PM
That was 2000 years ago.
The last enemy dies at least 1000 years into the future.
QuoteThe Law is fulfilled
What exactly does that mean according to you?
It means that Jesus fulfilled the Law for us so that we might be the righteousness of God through Him.
That is what Grace is.
Eventually, this will be a gift to everyone as every knee will bow to him.
He did this for the whole human race, they just don't know it, yet.
The sting of Death is sin.
Behold the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world.O Death, where is thy sting?