The goat, the ram and the Temple

[WhiteWings]

Daniel's vision.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+8&version=NIV


The ram and goat fight. The one horned goat  wins.
The two horned goat = Kings of Mede and Persia.
Goat = king of Greece = Alexander the great.
The horn breaks off --> Alexander the Great dies in Nebuchadnezzar II's palace in the evening of 10/11 June  323 BC
His kingdom gets divided among his 4 generals in  323/322BC --> 4 little horns.

Alexander's war against Persia (Darius III) started in October 1, 334BC (preparations started earlier)
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/alexander.htm

2300 days is 2300 years.
October 1, 334BC + 2300 +1 = October 1, 1967

During the 6-day, 5-10 June 1967 war 50 Jewish soldiers captured the Temple Mount. Notice the significance of 6 and 50.
The 50 soldiers held a  Jubilee prayer on the spot.
Their commander, Sholomo Goren blew the shofar (liberation)
Shlomo = Solomon
Goren = Threshing floor
David bough the threshing floor on which Solomon built the Temple.

In 70AD the Jews lost control over the Temple Mount and nearly 2000 years later they regained it. Time of Gentiles ended?

A mysterious English speaking man joined the soldiers and showed them the exact locations of Altar, Holies of Holies, etc.
He ordered them to rebuild the 3rd Temple on that spot.
Then the person was literally blown away by the wind. (chaff blown away?)

I wonder who the man that was blown away, was.

Daniel 8:15-27
15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

[sheila]

..themysteriousmanis Elijah that is to come again....taken to heaven in a winstorm/whirlwind.........

  the new temple are to  be built is the New Jerusalem/Bride spiritual city............

  no flesh and blood to inherit[chaff blown away/spirit goes where it will like wind].

    reaping harvest floor.........death plague stopped.

   Gabriel is the interpreter of visions

  SOS4;16  Awake north wind,come south wind!  Blow on my garden that it's fragrance

may spread abroad..

[Seth]

The new temple has been in construction under mankind's nose for 2,000 years and nobody has seen it. It is invisible. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God? The time of the Gentile will not end, because within the body there IS no Jew or Gentile, for they are one within Israel who is God's first born Son. That is why being a Jew is a matter of circumcision of the heart by the Spirit. Don't expect a time in the future where Jesus returns to change the definition of a Jew back to a fleshy definition. It's not going to happen. Those who are IN CHRIST have his crown and it will not be removed according to the flesh.

BTW, I wouldn't consider that Israel according to the flesh have control of the temple mount today. Take a look at that gold dome with the crescent moon. That's who controls the temple mount. That's not the temple mount though. JESUS is the temple mount. Israel according to the flesh will not see Jesus until they say, "'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

Those who come in the name of the Lord are Christ's people. His bride. His church. When they say that, they shall see him, because they will see his Body.

[Seth]

..themysteriousmanis Elijah that is to come again....taken to heaven in a winstorm/whirlwind.........

  the new temple are to  be built is the New Jerusalem/Bride spiritual city............

  no flesh and blood to inherit[chaff blown away/spirit goes where it will like wind].

    reaping harvest floor.........death plague stopped.

   Gabriel is the interpreter of visions

  SOS4;16  Awake north wind,come south wind!  Blow on my garden that it's fragrance

may spread abroad..

:thumbsup: :HeartThrob:

[WhiteWings]

BTW, I wouldn't consider that Israel according to the flesh have control of the temple mount today. Take a look at that gold dome with the crescent moon. That's who controls the temple mount.

That's only when you assume it's on the Temple mount and not Fort Antonia.

[WhiteWings]

The new temple has been in construction under mankind's nose for 2,000 years and nobody has seen it. It is invisible. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God?

It always puzzles me that people who love to quote that and similar verses have no problem shoving hundreds of other verses (prophesy) aside.

[Seth]

The new temple has been in construction under mankind's nose for 2,000 years and nobody has seen it. It is invisible. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God?

It always puzzles me that people who love to quote that and similar verses have no problem shoving hundreds of other verses (prophesy) aside.

Interpreting them differently does not mean for shoving aside...

You start from basic interpretations from the New Testament, and even those that may be more mysterious, you know will not contradict what is plainly established.

As long as anyone believes that the definition of Israel is sown up in the flesh, rather than God's choosing, and that he may define his Israel as he wishes, their old Testament interpretations will clash with what is clearly established in the New Testament. Being Israel isn't even a simple matter of being descended from Abraham. God CHOSE for Israel to be descended through Isaac as well. So, even though Ishamael was technically a physical seed of Abraham, he was not a Jew, and neither his own descendants.

Good grief, what does that tell us? It tells us that Israel is what GOD says it is, not what the flesh determines. If tomorrow, God points to a flock of birds and says "that's Israel" then, by golly, that's Israel!  :doh: As long as people resist God's sovereign definition of Israel, they will continue to look here and there for the kingdom, when Jesus already said, the kingdom of God is within you!

[Seth]

Daniel 2
It is He who changes the times and the epochs; He removes kings and establishes kings;

Now you can read the entirety of Daniel 2 and when it gets to the establishment of a kingdom that will rule all the other kingdoms, you can compare that to what Jesus said about the kingdom thousands of years later, and who he says his brothers are, and who Paul says Israel is, and why Paul was persecuted by the Jews for saying so.

The first shall be last and the last shall be first.

[Lazarus Short]

During the 6-day, 5-10 June 1967 war 50 Jewish soldiers captured the Temple Mount. Notice the significance of 6 and 50.
The 50 soldiers held a  Jubilee prayer on the spot.
Their commander, Sholomo Goren blew the shofar (liberation)
Shlomo = Solomon
Goren = Threshing floor
David bough the threshing floor on which Solomon built the Temple.

A mysterious English speaking man joined the soldiers and showed them the exact locations of Altar, Holies of Holies, etc.
He ordered them to rebuild the 3rd Temple on that spot.

White Wings, I had never heard that little tale before, and it has been on my mind since I read it.  Now if 1967 really was a Jubilee Year when that Goren fellow blew the Shofar horn, then the next Jubilee Year will be 2017, right?  Is there any chance of that year being the "last trump" or the last blowing of the Shofar horn to announce the Great Jubilee, when Jesus the Christ sets up His Kingdom, and the captives go free to return to their inheritance?  I'm champing at the bit!

[WhiteWings]

Sept 2016-Sept 2017
That's where most of my calculations point to. But another one to 2025 (or close to that)

When exactly a Jubilee year starts is a mystery for me.
It starts on Tishri 1, Jewish new year (I think Jesus was born then)
But that very same day also started the 10 days of Awe with Atonement day on on the 10th. Not entirely sure but those days were so holy they postponed things.
That day was followed by 7 days of Tabernacles. Plus a final 8 day feast.

Anyway, many shofars were sounded trough those days. And I agree with you a jubilee sounds like a perfect year of returning (120 years in Genesis could be 120 Jubilees)
I'm just not sure the actual liberation takes place exactly on new years eve.
Because in this post you can read it takes God 20 days to complete His judgements so possibly that means liberation can't take place earlier than that.
http://tentmaker.org/forum/discussions-on-universal-salvation/1-corinthians-1520-28-questions/msg163129/#msg163129

To add to the confusion the last trump isn't the last at all. It's the last of Tabernacles. Later than that is the Great Trump. To make it even worse there are shofars and silver trumpets. They both have different meanings. The shofars can be sounded in different ways which also have different meanings.  :dontknow:

[WhiteWings]

 Rev 8:1-5 And when he opened the seventh seal, silence occurred in heaven, like half an hour. And I saw the sev-en agents who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. And another agent came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer. And much incense was given to him, so that he would give with the prayers of all the sanctified upon the golden altar before the throne. And the vapor of the incense, with the prayers of the sanc-tified, ascended before God out of the agent's hand. And the agent who took the censer, also filled it from the fire of the altar, and cast it to the earth. And there occurred thunders, and voices, and lightings, and an earthquake.

silence occurred in heaven, like half an hour.
Twice a day, during morning and evening service, a priest took hot coals from the Brazen Altar and went inside the Temple to burn incense on the Golden Altar (Rev 8:3). Simultaneously worshippers (Rev 8:3) fell on their face and prayed in silence for 30 minutes (Rev 8:1). The Hebrew word translated as silence actually means 'be still before God'.  There was constant music and singing songs of praise during the opening hours of the Temple. Except during the above mentioned moments of silence. So Rev 8:1 takes the reader to the Temple service.

seven trumpets were given to them.
Only during the seventh and last of feasts, the Feast of Tabernacles, the ancient Jewish earthly priests sounded sev-en shofars. So this verse sets the timing of the silence between 15-22 Tishri. September/October on our calendar.

During the day a shofar, not trumpet which is a wrong translation, was sounded. One blast at the opening of the Temple gate, three blasts during the morning service and another 3 blasts during the evening service; totaling seven blasts. Four during morning service, 3 during evening service, which are better known as the three Woes in Revela-tion.

All those things put together tells us The Seven Trumpets let us 'see' a daily service in the Temple. The four main blast patterns used in ancient Israel:
- Tekaih pattern: Single blast to assemble.
- Shevarim pattern: Three short blasts as a call to repentance and mourning.
- Ternuah pattern: Nine short blasts to call for war.
- Tekaih Gadolah: A long blast. The call of the Messiah.

I think the last one is what we are looking for. I think the trumpets/safes' are a whole study on themselves. Most translations can't really be trusted. Many translate everything as a trumpet.


Anyway the verses in this post mention trumpets/shofars but they most certainly aren't the end. All the bad  Revelation stuff isn't even halfway then....
:dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:

[Seth]

The temple is already being built in Jeusalem. In 2016 if you want to see Christ in his temple, go look in the mirror.   :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

the funny thing about that Temple is that it had an outer court an inner court and the holiest of holies.so whatever temple Jesus is expected to build in physical Jerusalem it wouldn't be a rebuilding of that old temple. Jesus is pretty clear in Hebrews 10 that all believers have access to the Holy of Holies. And Jesus, when He died, ripped the veil into two pieces thereby invalidating the separation that the temple functioned to preserve. Whatever temple that Jesus is supposed to build in physical Jerusalem would most likely need to be a big giant empty room because Jesus the high priest is through all and is in all who believe. this physical Temple would be nothing more of a shadow of Jesus Christ himself who is the body, and would already be there. Therefore this temple would be completely unnecessary and I'm not sure how much better it would be the temple he is already building in his faithful people.

if the Jews are to rebuild the temple before Christ's return, then Christ will demonstrate why the old temple's function is no longer valid.

[sheila]

everything that is fulfilled in Christ,by Christ  has it's shadow[signs in earth/signs in heaven]

       do you not think it peculiar that those who seek to re-establish law temple sacrifices..and reject

   Christ[twice dead..rep as the angels who did not keep their proper abodes/sought to rule over

the heavenly hosts/or son of perdition/man of lawlessness] that Christ does away with at the breath

of His coming  need to be represented..the not all Israel is Israel class?

or do you not know that those that  look for Him at His return and belong to Him must be changed

that Jerusalem must be established in the earth[camp of the Holy city]

  both..those approved and those unapproved must be represented for the scriptures to be fulfilled

....the scriptures must be fulfilled.....

[sheila]

Psalms 98....v4 Shout for joy to the Lord  ALL the earth....burst into.........

   JUBILANT SONG[new song[sing to the Lord a new song]...

  make music to the Lrd with the harp and the sound of singing,

  with trumpets and the blast of the ram's horn- shout for joy before the Lrd and King