I was wondering if any of you have attended one of the widely advertised Luis Palau events traveling from city to city. I have seen some indications that evangelicals are critical of Luis Palau for not talking about hell enough, even though he appears to be a conservative evangelical. So I'm curious. What DO they emphasize at these events? Do you know?
And if you have ever thought to attend (you can be sure one will be coming to a major city near you soon), have you ever thought to promote what YOU believe about the Bible, perhaps wearing T-shirts clearly stating what you believe? Given all the people in attendance, it seems like it would be a way to get your message out.
For example, wear T-shirts with something like 1 Timothy 4:10: "For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe." and then perhaps a note of emphasis like "I'm a believer in the Bible and the Universal Salvation of ALL of mankind."
I see so many evangelicals running around with hell-based, fear-based T-Shirts. Have you ever thought about about fighting fire with fire? A little Love-based fire? Where are YOUR T-shirts?
I even saw an indication that Palau allowed the Catholic church to have a tent at one of his events. Where is the Christian Universalist tent? Or has someone already thought of this?
I suspect there are indeed very positive things at these Luis Palau events, such as skateboarders giving testimonies regarding how God helped them stay off drugs, turned their lives around, etc. However, as a parent who is not an evangelical Christian, I could never allow my child to attend without warning him first that he may hear fear-based messages there, and he needs to focus on the Love of God.
I may not be a Biblically-based Christian Universalist myself, but you have an uplifting, positive message to share about the Love of God, and I take no issue with that whatsoever, especially if it is done to specifically counter fear-based messages about God being shared with children at an already-scheduled open Christian event. And maybe you are already doing this sort of thing, I have no idea, but if not, what an opportunity to get your message out, don't you think? Maybe even reach a few of those skateboarders and rock musicians, so that perhaps they will begin to share a slightly different testimony, one clearly emphasizing the universal Love of God. And the same goes for wearing appropriate T-Shirts at Fellowship of Christian Athletes events, hell-based scary haunted houses sponsored by evangelical organizations, etc. Or have you thought of this already? Just wondering...
In peace,
BridgeBuilder
I love Luis Palau events. I have been to one, and all he focuses on is transformation through Jesus Christ. His critics are right that he doesn't harp on end-times separation of wheat and tares and extrapolating from that that the fire the tares would go into is everlasting fire, etc., etc. His events are very uplifting events, but yeah, you're right that you can't be 100% certain that Hell would never come up or that a guest speaker wouldn't talk about the inferno that awaits those who lack the proper creedal statement before a certain deadline without His ever having revealed Himself to them.
I'm not sure if it would ever make a good combination with a Christian Universalist outreach, however there is a growing grassroots movement towards getting the message out. Various people do have T-shirts that they make available. Things are at a crawl, but we're taking the land as we're able "little by little" so that the beasts of the earth wouldn't be too much for us, as He told Joshua in the Old Testament. There's a lot of stuff going on. Many "big name" ministers that are now aware of UR that are seasoning their messages ever so slightly towards it, as their crowds are able to bare it. This message is inching towards it's finest hour in the Church globally.
Half a dozen really big events involving the media over the next 2 or 3 years would probably speed things along, whether they were pre-recorded sermons or carefully constructed interviews. The problem that we've had with such things thus far is that the media will usually latch onto someone like Carlton Pearson or someone else that comes across in their message as though perhaps they might not be as firm about the Bible being the foundation of their message, so it just helps to push mainstream Christians a few inches further away from the message than they were previously. We need something to happen along those lines with a Christian Universalist that could thunder like a Charles Spurgeon about the centrality of this message to the Bible and it's Gospel Commission so that everything about repentance, sanctification, and evangelism should be understood in this light rather than in the light of the traditional:
"In the end, He's only as faithful as you were"
"He's there for people every time but the last time"
"In the end, the only Jesus that some people will ever see is the Jesus in you or me"
the last of which is worse than the previous two 'cause it contributes wholeheartedly to atheism to indicate that He's prepared to be totally less than real with each individual, which is not what the New Testament teaches. The Bible teaches the assurance of a final recovery of every life everywhere because He has been raised from the dead and in His High Priestly ministry is actively involved in each life bringing them to the place of repentance and restoration that He has for each of them -- that moment in time when all of this mess in this world will have been worth absolutely all of the suffering and tears.
Right now, there's a movement among some evangelicals to really emphasize living a life with one eye on eternity; living with an eternal point of view, etc. Sounds really pious, but nothing could be more unScriptural since Jesus said to take no thought for the morrow 'cause sufficient for the day is it's own issues. But that kind of thinking about eternal consequences, having an eye on eternity, and all of that jazz comes from the eternal Hell mindset. Christians genuinely don't believe the simple statements of Scripture like Romans 5, 1Corinthians 15, and 2Corinthians 5 where we're assured that Jesus Christ is the total undoing of all of the evils that came into the world through Adam's disobedience to God. Those Scriptures assure us that He's the justification of life. That's a strong statement that can't really be backed up with ideas of exclusivity being taken to unBiblical extremes. Yes, sanctification is important, as well as maintaining a pattern of sound Words from the Gospel, etc., etc. but the only exclusivity about the Gospel is that no one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ. He's not looking to keep anybody out! But He's the Door.
He's there right at the moment of their death with their life review during which they find out where they missed it, Who He is, what He's done for them, and they go with Him and not to the devil. Of the 4 words that get mistranslated as "Hell" in the KJV, I've yet to find where a single one of them necessitates afterlife punishments:
Sheol in the Old Testament and Hades in the New Testament are simply the grave. Our worst critics will give on that one, even if they personally believe (based on no Scriptures in particular) that it means more than that.
Tartarus in the New Testament; along with the fire prepared for the devil, his angels, and the goats in Matthew 25; the fires of 1Corinthians 5; and the Lake of Fire are all judgments of our works. Yes, there can be suffering involved with this. We all go through that when we did what we thought was a good idea rather than what was the God idea for our lives.
Gehenna, which is the word that Jesus used the most that people mistranslate as "Hell" is used both in the synoptic Gospels and in James and it's simply the consequences of bad teaching or a wrong paradigm. This one, according to St. James, sets on fire the wheel of the course of nature and can really get us into some of the deeper evils of life because our heads aren't screwed on straight about this or that, or perhaps about everything.
A lot of people will try to say that the Biblical Universalist doesn't believe in consequences for our actions. We simply believe in just consequences and the different levels of sins and punishments that the Bible speaks of when it gives Old Testament Israel as our example of all of these things. Things not forgiven in this age or in that which is to come simply run their course in the individual's life and then have consequences for following generations. Jesus's comment along those lines was the New Testament equivalent of the Old Testament "the sins being passed down to the third and fourth generation." But as He promised to restore Israel to their land, to restore a Biblical language and faith to them, and to reveal His Son to them throughout the Old Testament, we can likewise be assured that He'll deal as graciously with every nation, city, and family that's ever existed based upon identical promises in the Bible regarding each of them. All of the promises of both destruction and restoration will be fulfilled, so that you've got even the salvation of Sodom and Gomorrah in Ezekiel 16:53-55. And the KJV in Jude's epistle calls them "the example of eternal fire."
There's not a verse in the entire Bible that teaches the perpetual damnation of a single life anywhere.
Yeah, there's absolutely no question that we're getting this message out as God opens doors.
Hi BB
Firstly TY for the invite to the Oprah boards but their rules makes it really difficult for me to post. Much of the fundamentals I share are on my blog and I know folk hate loong posts and thus it is easier to give snippets and links. The curious usually follow the link and on my blog there are more text edit options than on the message boards. I am also battling logging in.
Anyways being in SA, we do not have too many of the fundamental emphasis on mental types here with placards and T shirts. The church here is generally non HF&T focused as most are related to European influences as opposed to American but you will find it on their AoF or SoF on their membership forms or websites that the hell of ET is believed in.
Likely because UR is small in SA there are little folk that emphasise the HF&T teachings. Most focus on getting closer to the Father.
I agree with Martin and many of us here are active on other boards so that is more or less where we look to spread the Good News. In SA we have very few Xian boards and many are NOT well visited. I guess most SA's find their way to USA boards.
I will say this that there seems to be a push on the part of the evangelicals to defend their hell which again I guess is a way God is using this to expose their true motives and heart. Folk are not dumb.
The problem lies when folk who believed they are no longer saved from hell then get disillusioned of their salvation and walk. It takes then a process of reevaluation and re-dedication which many are not able to comprehend thus it is easier to put their heads in the sand than to look deeper into what we share. Deindoctrination takes much effort.