Hey all, just a quick question.
In regards to what we are, after perusing through some older discussion threads, I am a bit confused on something. I have been believing that we are a soul, and that we have a spirit and a body. But, I then came across comments saying that saying we are a soul is one of the biggest lies to come out of Orthodoxy.
So, who, or what are we essentially?
Also, how would you describe each part? Is the Spirit essentially the Breath of Life, or something more?
If this is the wrong thread to post this, spare my soul and have mercy. :winkgrin:
Nothing wrong in this question :o) No murder coming :
LOLOL
I hav heard so many opinions on this and I have my own. I dont think the scriptures are as clear about the divisions of these things as religianists like to assert. Like the colors of the rainbow blend into one another so also the spirit soul heart mind are the "innermost" or "inward" parts. Personally I believe we are "wheels within wheels" and like the temple, the body being the outer court, the soul being the middle court and the spirit being the holy of holies. The heart is at the conjunction of the holy place and the holy of holies, like the golden altar of incense, just before the veil, and was carried through the veil by the high preist once a year even as our heart is carried through the veil by our high preist, "a new and living way" through the veil.....having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil consciousness and our bodies washed with pure water(washing of regeneration, washing of the water of the word.
But the heart(imo) is the hub of all, the highest seat of consciousness(having our hearts cleansed of an evil conscience, hebrews), and "if the eye is single(may the eyes of your heart be enlightened...Eph 1) the whole body(and all it contains, spirit, soul, heart) will be full of light" .... "Every hidden thing will be brought to light"...."You will make me to know truth in my inner man".
Some people believe "wheels within wheels" is "spheres within spheres", thats how I think God works myself,and all creation is being restored from the center of everything(Christ the seed/Logos/reason/image) outward from His sacrifice, which is the foundation of the kosmos- through to the outermost spheres of time and the ages when all will be gathered into one in Christ and God will be all in all.
In the meantime, may each of us be recovered and presented whole and without blemish in the Day of His appearing(already in our hearts).
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thess 5:23
Beautiful John!!
I thought of Ezekiel when reading your post!! :HeartThrob: Gathering to the center of the universe [GOD SWORD or WORD of the SPIRIT ] as the sparks fly scattering what is not of Him in the wheels within the wheels separating and dividing scattering off to die out what is not of Him ... Our God is a consuming fire . :HeartThrob:
Micah had issues with the term soul , :dsunny: but is interchangeable to life , like John said , it is the seat of emotions where LOVE is expressed , GOD IS LOVE if He is sitting on the throne of your heart in Christ Jesus , you have and abundant Life without ever any want or need again and it is the eternal dwelling place of the Lord .
For me, it is the process of exchanging your life /soul of the world and earthly things [death reigns ] temporary riches and the BIG LIE in order to become alive to God though our Lord Jesus Christ as to taking up your cross [old man of sin /son of perdition , man of sin must die first ] and following Jesus example ..
Jesus asks , anyone reading the BIBLE , it becomes to us whom believe the WORD OF LIFE , but to those whom mind is still on earthly things and unrighteous mammon /riches it is still in the dead letters form and does not move us because we are dead as those letters are to us .
I see the WORD of God is those brothers and sisters that labored in Christ as Living in the Body of Christ with us whom believe , and for those whom it is still sealed and not opened yet , it is still laying as dead letters till the Holy Spirit breathes on them and you by the Lord to open heaven and you are born again of God though the same HOLY SPIRIT OF CHRIST and a brother in Christ family , the books are opened and life and death are yours and you are Christ and Christ is Gods ... it is the process it seems when we come to Christ . the flesh counts for nothing but is a past lust and desire that held you prisoner to it . ..now you are IN Christ new creation of GOD THE FATHER by the HOLY SPIRIT OF LIFE an eternal TRUTH that never dies .
2 Cor 5 16So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh.
Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.
17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.
The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!
18All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:...
Jesus is in the midst / middle of the two thieves on the cross with Him as center of everything changing [ great gulf fixed and set up by the Father ] , the old man of sin [soul /life ] is never mentioned again but left in the dust , but the new man confessing to the Lord his error/sin and CHRIST innocence [soul /life ] His SOUL becomes yours ! as a son of God and will be with Jesus Christ in paradise that very DAY ! For me this is how I see the cross of Jesus Christ being applied to every child born of God as changing and exchanging death for Life in Christ ,
and to know nothing but Jesus Christ and Him crucified and to begin to live for God running ther race to the higher calling come up here and be with ME , leaving the body of death behind us as Paul confesses in Romans 7 and 8 Thanking the Lord Jesus Christ for the mercy and grace God has given to him and us also in like manner ..
Mark 8 Take up Your Cross
...36What does it profit a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?
37Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?
38For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation,
the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in His Father's glory with the holy angels."...
Christ whom is the Life in God as LIVING WITHOUT END ..and a new creation as a child of the Kingdom of God not ashamed to call you part of the family of the HOLY FATHER ..
There is a simplicity in Christ that is so beautiful and though the Holy Spirit shall it be established and made known to all .
The Holy SPIRIT is the gift of God with all the rewards with Him and to reject a so great a salvation is the greatest loss of all .. now is always the time for all to come in that will take up your cross and follow Jesus .
I am not sure this will make any sense to you Musiclover123 but the seeds of Life planted in the hearts of man whom God prepares though suffering because of sin in the world is our best hope for a new Life in Christ , leaving all this behind us and looking forward to the promises of God being fulfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ as we speak . Gods blessings :HeartThrob:
I see our soul as abody quickened with the spirit portionoflife given untous fromHIM.you can lose your soul[spirit dwelling in abody
corruptedby sin] andbecome naked/or unclothed as Paul described it.body return untodust/dissolve.
As the shepherd Jesus recovers what waslost[our spirit and body as a living soul] and Jesus showed inthe parable that Our Father clothes with
the BEST ROBE[incorruptible/immortal] His prodigal sons that squandered their inheritance[losttheir soul/my sonwas dead]
every good and perfect present is from above...and Our Father saves the BEST[perfect]forlast...the bestwine,best robe etc.
itwasgoodfor our spirits tobe sown inweakness..andforustoundergo this vanity..tolearn through our weaknesses[flesh] where our
strength lays[spirit]..tolearn alittle evil spoils the good that Our Father hasgiven us. This exercize inevil..the good/evilmix is not
the endofthe matter!. WE MUST BE PERFECT!!!! THE BEST...the very thought of evil[mind] must be crushed under our feet
wemust be in God's image,wemust be perfect! Let us make man in our image...andHisword does notreturn untoHim void..andbecause
of that TRUTH..neither shall any spirits ofmen return untoGod void either. :2c:
Hey guys, thanks for the replies so far
If I do understand eaglesway's opinion, I think that is what I hold myself. I personally think that we are the soul, and that we have a body and a spirit. That we are powered by the spirit of God(I think now that the spirit is the power of God, and not some Trinitarian concept) as we become believers in Christ and God. I would also say that before we are in Christ, we have the Spirit of the world, and we are powered by fleshy and worldly desires.
I am getting myself into studying Scripture more, and through this website I have came to believe in UR(among other things that I am working myself through.)
I also have been thinking more lately, that we should do everything in Love, just as God loves us ("Beloved, may we love one another, because the love is of God, and every one who is loving, of God he hath been begotten, and doth know God" 1 John 4:7.) Even if we come to disagreements with one another on any issue, we should not act out of anger, but out of love, and try to understand one another.
Before UR, I loved to help people, and love others. I am still doing that (In fact, I am starting to understand loving others more through understanding God's character more.) Now, I am still doing that, but I think I am being much more consistent with my beliefs. If God does not love all people, why should we? By torturing others, we would be acting out God's service. It sounds pretty crazy, but if hell exists, then that would be one hell of a mess. :2c:
Blessings
ML
hi! I think of the spirit as the life(force), the spark of. I think God iS life, the life force, breath of life.
I think of the "soul" as the psyche - which though the greek also includes, breath (and soul) I think of it as the individual, the person and personality. And I think the body, of course is the body :laughing7: but though it grows old, etc, in the beginning, it did not - it is imperfect because of the carnal/lower character/fall of character, not vice versa, the carnal/selfish-centered character due to being 'in' the body. :faint:
To me it doesn't matter - or no longer matters(?) if as rational creatures we have inherent immortality, because the scripture says "the soul that sins, it shall die" - so either way, that's what we're all saved from. Death, opposite of Life, and this is the lesson. That there's only the 2 ways, Life/God/Love, or death/non-life(imperfection,self on throne). God/Love/Perfection hAs to RuLe! Cause He is life.
A very good question! :gsmile:
Hey marie!
Thanks for your answer. It takes quite a bit of courage to give an opinion that is wrong. Remember, Hell lasts longer for those people who are more wrong than others! :laugh:
Nah, I''m just kidding. I do have more questions, but I'm not going to blurt them out all at once :boyheart:
:laughing7: :thumbsup:
p.s. - I like your signature! "Through Hope and Despair, Love conquers All." :thumbsup:
Thanks! :thumbsup: :HeartThrob:
I was cleaning my bathroom the other day and it just popped into my mind for some reason. :URWelcome:
Here is my view, from my book:
What are we, anyway? What happens to us when we die? Versions of "you'll have pie in the sky when you die" are common, and mourners are consoled with the idea that their lost loved one is in "a better place." Just like the harp-on-a-cloud version of Heaven, the Bible says nothing like this, but holds out the Promise of the Resurrection. I propose that before we consider the afterlife, we need a proper understanding of body, soul, and spirit – how we were made.
It's easy to miss what's going on in Genesis when God made Adam, so let's look at those few, meaningful words: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. And man became a living soul."
(Genesis 2:7 KJV II)
First, God took some dirt (in fact, the Miao people refer to Adam as the "Patriarch Dirt"): "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground..." (Genesis 2:7, KJV II.)
dirt/dust --> [God made it into] --> a lifeless body.
OK, we've got a body, and we can't even call it dead, as it has not yet lived, but: "...God...breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. And man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7, KJV II.)
lifeless body --> [God breathes into it the Breath/Spirit of Life] --> Adam, a living soul, a living person with breath.
Simplified, we have:
body + breath/spirit = soul
Now we've got a soul, which by the implied Biblical definition, is the living, breathing person, not some ineffable, ethereal thing that the person has or possesses. Also implied, is that you do not HAVE a soul, but you ARE a soul. This is widely misunderstood.
Still with me? I tell you, it's hard to make people understand this! It's a mindset, a stronghold, but we need to understand it in the way God sets it out, not the way the world does. I believe the rest of the Bible uses this understanding of "soul" consistently, and this understanding makes some passages of the Bible plain, which otherwise are confusing.
To deepen your understanding, let's reverse the process. When you die, a lot of things happen, such as the heart and pulse stopping, lack of brain activity, but ultimately decomposition, the returning to dust, is the final marker. The Biblical view equates life with having breath, so I'm going to stick with that as being the death indicator.
Made simple: soul - breath = body.
Expanded a bit, we get:
living person (soul) - life (breath) = dead/lifeless body.
It's just the making of Adam in reverse, and what do we end up with? One thing implied by the proper Biblical understanding of body, spirit, and soul may surprise you.
The Breath/Spirit returns to God, Who gave it. It belongs to Him, and since it is most certainly one of the seven Spirits of God, it is part of Him. That being so, it doesn't go to Hell if it's part of God, does it? To say so is close to blasphemy, in my opinion. Now, in case you are wondering about the Seven Spirits, we have information in Isaiah 11:2, and in Revelation 1:4, 3:1, 4:5 and 5:6.
The body begins to decay, and one way or the other, returns to the ground, which gave it. As God Himself said, "In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread until you return to the ground. For out of it you were taken – for dust you are, and to dust you shall return." (Genesis 3:19, KJV II). That being so, it doesn't go to "Hell," except in the sense of being in the grave - there's no point in sending lifeless bodies to an eternity in Hell, is there? The idea seems absurd to me.
Oops! What happened to the soul? Gone, gone! It no longer exists, just as the living person no longer exists. It doesn't return to anything - it's just like a chemical molecule when it is broken up into its component atoms. Poof! Consider a water molecule undergoing electrolysis - the hydrogen bubbles off the cathode, and oxygen bubbles off the anode. Asking where the soul went is as pointless as asking where the water went. For the Soul to be alive in Hell, it must be remade by putting Breath/Spirit back into a body - but then you've got that part of God in Hell again, absurd and blasphemous. I suspect that those who preach and teach Hell have not thought the matter through to the end. However, I hope I have demonstrated that eternal, conscious torment in Hell is utterly impossible, just as I have shown in previous chapters that Hell itself is non-existent.
So there you are – of Spirit, Body, or Soul, none can be sent to Hell. For those who insist that God can resurrect people and send them to Hell, I can only reply on two levels. First, advocates of Eternal Torment have misunderstood the character of a loving God. The God of the Bible is a God of the living, not the dead. At some point, as written in the Revelation, both Death and Hell (the Grave, actually) are cast into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14). Further, we are told that Death is the last enemy to be destroyed (I Corinthians 15:26). Two verses later, we are told that God will become All in all.
This leads us to two of the three questions I asked earlier in this book:
How can anyone be dead and/or in Hell after Death has been destroyed?
If anyone is still dead and/or in Hell, how can God become All in all?
The only conclusion this writer can come to is the taunt of I Corinthians 15:54-55: "Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?"
It really is that simple. Note that I am not saying people will escape responsibility for their evil works, or be punished for them. I am saying that a loving God punishes for a purpose, and for a time, not for torment's sake and not for eternity. Keep in mind the principle of the Law of the Jubilee, which states that at a set time, all debts are cancelled, and everyone in bondage goes home free to their lands and homes. God instituted the Jubilee for an ancient society, but it points to a future where everyone will have their sins forgiven, and they will go free of the bondage of sin to enjoy their inheritance, as co-heirs with Jesus the Christ. This will certainly involve the New Earth, and possibly the New Heavens as well. The Law of the Jubilee may be found in Leviticus 25:8-16.
Secondly, Hell, as most people think of it, is a concept but not a reality. Let me explain. For the first few centuries AD, the doctrine of universal salvation was orthodox, especially in the eastern churches. However, with many pagans coming into the body of believers, pagan mindsets and ideas came in as baggage with them. Former ideas and concepts were (and are!) hard to get rid of, and began to color Christian theology and Biblical understanding. Little by little, Sheol became thought of more and more as being like Hel, Hades and Hell. The Greek concept of the Immortality of the Soul, began to replace the Biblical concept of death and resurrection. Immortality of the soul also made eternal life in a place of fire possible in the minds of men. Oddly, lots of Christians today subscribe to both the idea of the Immortal Soul, and death and resurrection at the same time. Most never see the contradiction. In time, these concepts also affected Bible translations, so that we see words translated as "Hell" which mean no such thing. There are good translations not containing the word at all. I have found that, in the centuries since the concept of Hell entered Christianity, that all the literature on the subject has been theological (I prefer "theo-illogical") speculation or fiction. Yes, fiction, from the epic poetry of Dante and Milton, to the prose of Mary K. Baxter and many, many movies and "Ewetoob" videos. None of it can be verified, as far as I know, but we should trust the Word of God, in a translation not steeped in medieval theology.
Here's how our reconciliation with God goes, as the eons pass:
dirt --> [God makes it into] --> a body
body --> [God gives it a bit of His Spirit/Breath] --> a soul
soul --> [God gives it more Spirit (the Earnest)] --> a justified soul
justified soul --> [God gives it the fullness of the Seven Spirits after death & resurrection] --> a Glorified Soul
All done, rest and eternity ensue.
Quote from: Lazarus Short on November 29, 2017, 06:51:20 PM
body + breath/spirit = soul
soul - breath = body.
Expanded a bit, we get:
living person (soul) - life (breath) = dead/lifeless body.
Here's how our reconciliation with God goes, as the eons pass:
dirt --> [God makes it into] --> a body
body --> [God gives it a bit of His Spirit/Breath] --> a soul
soul --> [God gives it more Spirit (the Earnest)] --> a justified soul
justified soul --> [God gives it the fullness of the Seven Spirits after death & resurrection] --> a Glorified Soul
All done, rest and eternity ensue.
:mshock: :Chinscratch: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :iagree:
Every one has an opinion, so here is mine.
IMO this physical body is just a shell that we occupy
and
IMO the spirit is the life that is in a physical body, in other words, it is the power or life force that makes it capable of movement
as for the soul, I see it as the tabernacle itself that God inhabits
and since I believe that ..... I see the soul patterned after the tabernacle, in other words, that the soul itself has an outer court, and inner court and a Holy of Holies
That the soul is our spiritual body, mind and heart
When we are brought into the body of Christ, that is being brought into and then through the outer court (into and through the body of Christ)
When we are brought into the mind of Christ (through the renewing of ours), that is being brought into and through the inner court (into and through the mind of Christ)
When we are brought into the heart of Christ (where we receive our new heart) that is being brought into the Holy of Holies
And by all of this we see the Father .... with Christ being the exact representation of Him (the Ark of the Covenant) ..... if you have seen me, you have seen the Father
IMO the soul is our identity, just like our face is what identifies us to others in the physical world, Christ is the face (attributes) on our soul (His righteousness, the clothing of our soul) that identifies us in the spiritual world ...... namely to the Father for that is how the Father sees us .....
"AS A SON"
my :2c:
Scripture tells us that man does nor have an immortal soul. Also the scriptures tell us that a living human being consists of body, soul and spirit. Three components of a human being.
1Thes. 5:23 (KJV) And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The Body
The physical body is the vessel which houses the soul and our spirit. Man (Adam) was formed from the dust (soil) of the ground.
Gen 2:7 (KJV) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground...
Gen 3:19 (KJV) In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Gen 3:19 (CLV) In the sweat of your face shall you eat your bread, till your return to the ground, for from it are you taken, for soil you are, and to soil are you returning.
At death the body returns to the soil whence it came. It may seem amazing but death is a return. Man is soil and returns to the soil.
Job 30:23 (CLV) I know that You are turning me back to death...
This truth has been obscured by inconsistent rendering of the Hebrew word shub (Strong's H7725). This word is represented in the English Authorized version by many variations in rendering. The main question to be answered is whether this Hebrew word simply means to turn, or if it includes the thought of a previous condition, hence a return. If you do a search on the meaning of the Hebrew word "shub" (Strong's H7725) you will conclude it means return.
The Spirit
The spirit in man is expalined from a number of scriptures.
Job 32:8 (KJV) But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
God places spirit in all living creatures. The spirit in man gives him the ability to reason, plan, create, love, hate, etc. It is his intellect.
1Co 2:11 (KJV) For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
God the Father is the wellspring of all Spirits. It is through His Holy Spirit that He creates, orders and sustains all the universe. The Holy Spirit is the power of God.
Psalms104:30 (KJV) Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.
All breathing creatures have a spirit from God.
Job 33:4 (KJV) The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
Eccles 3:21 (KJV) Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
And so the spirit is given to a person by God at the moment of birth (or maybe at conception). And at death it departs the body and returns to God.
Eccles 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
In the New Testament the word spirit is from the Greek word pneuma (Strong's G4151). There are many examples.
Rom 8:14 (KJV) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Gal 5:22 (KJV) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:25 (KJV) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Rom 8:14 (KJV) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Gal 5:22 (KJV) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:25 (KJV) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
The Scriptures distinguish clearly between the spirit and the soul. The spirit and the breath are closely related as may be seen in the expression "the breath of the spirit of life" in Gen. 7:22 (ASV). The spirit is that invisible life force from God which when united with the body produces the thing we call a soul.
What is the Soul?
This is most intriguing. The breathing person is a living soul.
Gen 2:7 (KJV) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Anyone who is reading this is a living soul. Can a soul die? Yes it can. It most certainly is not immortal.
Ezek18:4 (KJV) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
The word soul is translated in the Old Testament from the Hebrew word nephesh (Strong's H5314) and is defined by Strong as a "breathing creature".
From Strong's Exhaustive Concordance:
נפשׁ nephesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental)
I take exception to this definition by Dr. Strong because the soul can be either alive or dead. I know this is quite controversial, but continuing:
Man is a living soul when two conditions exist:
(1) he breaths
(2) he has blood flowing in his veins
Death comes when a person either ceases to breath or bleeds to death. When either one of these two conditions occur the soul dies.
PROOF:
(1) Anyone who stops breathing dies. Could be from suffocation, drowning, or some other way of being unable to breath. If you stop breathing, you die.
Gen 7:22 (KJV) All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
A more accurate rendering of this verse is from The Concordant Literal Version.
Gen 7:22 (CLV) Everyone which has the breath of the spirit of the living in his nostrils, of all that were in the drained area, dies.
In the King James version the words "breath of life" is inaccurate. The more accurate is from the Concordant Literal Version - ""breath of the spirit of the living". Simply put, a living soul dies when breathing ceases.
(2) Some bible students do not fully appreciated that scripture tells us of a connection between blood and the soul. This is an important point regarding the soul. Verses that reveal that the soul of the living person (flesh) is said to be in the blood.
Lev 17:11 (KJV) For the life of the flesh is in the blood.
Or more accurately from the CLV:
Lev. 17:11 (CLV) for the soul of the flesh, it is in the blood...
Another verse:
Gen 9:4 (KJV) But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof...
Again, more accurately from the CLV:
Gen. 9:4 (CLV) Yea, only flesh with its soul, its blood....
Upon death, what happens to the soul? Is there such a thing as a dead soul? Yes and we can find verses to show this in both the Old Testament and New Testament. Unfortunately, the scholars who translated the original text into the English language could not bring themselves to be true to scripture and forced their belief in the immortality of the soul into the translations. Instead of translating dead soul (dead nephesh) they translated it as dead body, thus losing the real meaning.
Here are a few of a number of verses from the Old Testament where there is reference to a dead soul (nephesh):
Lev. 19:28 (CLV) You shall not put a laceration in your flesh for a deceased soul (nephesh)...
Lev. 21:1 (CLV) ....No one shall defile himself for a deceased soul (nephesh) among his kinsmen,
Num. 9:6 (CLV) And it came to be that some men who became unclean by touching a deceased soul (nephesh) of a human....
So when a living soul (person) dies that person becomes a dead soul. What happens to a dead soul? A body (flesh) upon death decays and returns to dust. And the spirit returns to God who gave it. A few verses in the New Testament on this topic.
In the New Testament the word soul is translated from the Greek word psuche (G5590). Here are some verses among many from the New Testament where there is reference to a soul.
I Pet 1:9 (KJV) Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls (psuche).
Act 2:41 (KJV) Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls (psuche).
Upon death, what happens to the soul? Scripture tells us that there is no such thing as an immortal soul and the dead have no consciousness. Here is scripture about the death of Jesus Christ that is critical to understand what happens to the soul at death. What happened to Christ when He died? Did His soul continue to live? Or did His soul still exist when He was dead? He certainly died and had no breath. In fact if He did not really die, we have no Savior.
Acts 2:27 (KJV) Because thou wilt not leave my soul (psuche) in hell (hades), neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
A more accurate translation is:
Acts 2:27 (CLV) For Thou wilt not be forsaking my soul (psuche) in the unseen (hades), Nor wilt Thou be giving Thy Benign One to be acquainted with decay."
The dead Christ, His soul and body (which did not decay) was in the grave (the unseen or imperceptible) until the Father raised Him from the dead. Hell is simply the grave, also can be described as the "unseen" or "imperceptible".
:Peace2:
Thanks for all the insightful replies. I especially found eaglesway's, jugghead's, and joeteekay's responses among the rest the most helpful. This is speaking without the intent of causing offense to anyone else, though. I found the other's responses helpful as well.
As for my personal belief, I would say a quotation from eaglesway does it justice. "Personally I believe we are "wheels within wheels" and like the temple, the body being the outer court, the soul being the middle court and the spirit being the holy of holies." Also, what Lazarus mentioned I believe as well, specifically: "living person (soul) - life (breath) = dead/lifeless body"
I also think that the Spirit as the source/battery of sorts of life makes sense, especially with texts like in Ecclesiastes and such.
Blessings :dsunny: :banana: :banana: :banana:
Quote from: MusicLover123 on December 02, 2017, 05:09:17 AM
Thanks for all the insightful replies. I especially found eaglesway's, jugghead's, and joeteekay's responses among the rest the most helpful. This is speaking without the intent of causing offense to anyone else, though. I found the other's responses helpful as well.
As for my personal belief, I would say a quotation from eaglesway does it justice. "Personally I believe we are "wheels within wheels" and like the temple, the body being the outer court, the soul being the middle court and the spirit being the holy of holies." Also, what Lazarus mentioned I believe as well, specifically: "living person (soul) - life (breath) = dead/lifeless body"
I also think that the Spirit as the source/battery of sorts of life makes sense, especially with texts like in Ecclesiastes and such.
Blessings :dsunny: :banana: :banana: :banana:
I think this is true for the born again follower of Jesus..
(But I think God is the "source", and why we are learning life can only remain life - with Him.)The verse
"with what body shall they rise?" makes me envision folks rising up from sleep.. and that's what Paul said, that believers are
"asleep in Christ". - Sister Rose finally was able to help me see that. :gsmile:
That it's different for the saved and the not yet saved.
But how amazing! That all the persons who have ever lived all through time and earth ages, He will raise. He is perfectly able to raise. Not a problem for Him.. Those of the second resurrection will rise still in their infirmities? Seen and unseen.. physical and spiritual?
But followers,
"with what sort of bodies shall they rise? ..having borne the earthly, they shall now reflect the heavenly.. different bodies.. celestial.." ..Will we, like Him, be more fiery? :Chinscratch: hope not more spacey, I don't really need that..
The idea that the lost are inherently immortal seems to me not to jive with the scriptures of "dust to dust" and "we shall put on immortality".
But Jesus told followers they "would never die".
But the idea that in the Kingdom, we will be like 'ghosts'.. I'm surely hoping not. I'd much rather be able to walk and run, dance and fly.. Run without tiring.. Dance every step I could ever envision.. mentally, but also physically. I believe our heavenly Father is creating a truly awesome paradise. And He deserves much glory on account of it. :cloud9:
The idea that we must somehow transcend the physical - though there surely is a big need for it, in a certain sense.. But the whole dilemma that man is in, is a state of character, not what sort of body we now have. imo, anyway.. :gsmile: :Peace2:
:iagree:
Quote from: MusicLover123 on December 02, 2017, 05:09:17 AM
I also think that the Spirit as the source/battery of sorts of life makes sense, especially with texts like in Ecclesiastes and such.
Blessings :dsunny: :banana: :banana: :banana:
:iagree:
Amen !!! :HeartThrob:
Love to you all , you are such a blessing of Gods love magnified :dsunny: