repent and be baptized

[rosered]

 
I was going to stay out of this ,  but I see many of us are seeing the same things 

 
I just wanted to say being baptized in the ritual    of water  and submersion          in the NAME OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST     

Is the first step being babes in Christ as to exercising  the faith works   ,  by faith in acknowledging      the need for the Lord in  your life      and there is reward in this    for obedience , This is my opinion   but we find  in the
scriptures we see Jesus  proclaiming   this as  TRUTH   


    Matthew 10  32"Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

Luke 12:8
"I tell you, whoever publicly acknowledges me before others, the Son of Man will also acknowledge before the angels of God.

Luke 15:10
In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents."

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Revelation 3:5
The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

When your   mouth  confesses    I am a sinner   and need Gods saving  ''gift of grace ''    and in your heart  you know     you   are not ashamed    to  acknowledge this need and    admit it  , you will also subject your own body  as dead   to the  world by  being baptized   [a type of death ]      submersion  of the old man  being put to death and the new man rising up in Christ

Even   JESUS Did this   open act   as a work  of the Lord    by John the Baptist as to fulfill all righteousness     Being our perfect example

showing us the way    when we are so young and  new in the faith   and following Jesus   is  doing exactly as HE DONE  and says    ,because we Love Him  back  because He first loved us  while we were yet sinners   CHRIST DIED FOR US ,,,
  and I see this as the first works   being done and having   your first Love   as pleasing Him by faith , because without faith it is impossble to please Him     

REV 2
   first works  first love Message to the Church in Ephesus
...4But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5'Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place-- unless you repent. 6'Yet this you do have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
  the first thing a new and baby Christian wants to do     is stand up for Jesus   and wield the Sword and start    exposing  the sins , so they can have just what you  have received       and it is  risky business for the little ones   who have only begun to crawl  much less walk in the Spirit yet    , they stumble    , I know this from personal experience  , and just cried and cried , everyone   turned away    , because of the harsh  way I handled the WORD OF LIFE   and I thought  , its true Lord I will be hated by all  men for your name sake   , and that was my way of justifying   my own error   

I confess   I was stepping into  new territory    and them words in Rev2   and 3  spoke to me  , I did not want the lampstand removed  from it place  , that being the   dark place of my own heart       realizing  being a babe is still very carnal    and needing the milk of the word , so God was merciful and set me into the scriptures  for many years  searching them out     and connecting them    all together and yet still not seeing the BIG PICTURE     the Image of Christ  reflecting

in my own life yet       , I believe  many of us   come though the same    broad path  and have accepted the destruction as     works of our own hands 

  and learning to wait on the Lord was the  true challenge  and patience of the holy ones/saints  made in His image       , the born again babes in Christ  start to finnish , Him being the author and finisher of our faith       

  and the scriptures tells us that   , little ones  your sins are forgiven you for His own names sake         not what we have done   ..   

  the gift of Grace is loving God as Gods grace abounds       , yes the sin abounds and  are errors are made, but Gods grace abounds the  more ,GODS WORD IS NOT BOUND    to any thing or anyone     at any time .

He comes when you least expect it  , usually when you have given up totally and completely     and are well  spent .


Love in Christ to all         

[Seth]

Matthew 10  32"Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

Yes, I could see water baptism as a form of an outward expression, or demonstration, of faith. However, your use of Matthew 10:32 suggests to me that someone who does not get water baptized, for whatever reason, is failing to confess and could be denied by Christ before God? Not sure if that's what you mean. Would that mean people have to be water baptized only in public, and not in private?

In this conversation, water baptism has been connected with the James 2 teaching that works make our faith complete and how that faith without works is dead. I find that disturbing to say the least, because those are not the works James is referring to, and that could lead to all kinds of self-condemnation for those who have not been water baptized, and judgments made on their faith. Some people don't believe in it and have their reasons, even if others disagree with their reasons.

I actually think people shouldn't get baptized in water unless they are fully convinced of it. Faith is the most important thing and being water baptized only because someone else is convinced of it, without being fully convinced of it themselves, to me is acting outside of faith.

[gregoryfl]

I agree that the doctrine of baptism is a milk teaching. I just disagree that it MUST be referring to water. I believe there are legitimate reasons to disagree with that.

For example:

Act_22:16 
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Now, you may believe that physical water washes away your sins, but I don't. Paul didn't teach that our sins are actually washed away by water, but he said that we are saved and washed clean by the Holy Spirit ("He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit"). I do see that water baptism is a tradition they took part in, but that doesn't mean I believe that all cases of the word "baptism" are automatically referring to water.

I believe anyone who reads that verse as saying that baptism washes sins away is not paying attention to what the grammar (yes, grammar does have importance) is saying.

והשא מנא משתוחר אנת קום עמד ואתדכא מן חטחיך כד קרא אנת שמא

And now, why are you waiting? Arise, be immersed, and be cleansed from your sins WHEN you call his name. (my translation)

One little Aramaic word כד (Kad), a conjunction meaning 'when', helps us see that it is not the immersion that cleanses one from sin, but rather the calling his name...

Yes, I am using the Aramaic, but even the way the Greek reads indicates basically the same thing, for it links 'washing away of sins' with 'calling on the name of the Master'. I just personally think the Aramaic makes it very clear.

Ronen

[Seth]

And now, why are you waiting? Arise, be immersed, and be cleansed from your sins WHEN you call his name. (my translation)

One little Aramaic word כד (Kad), a conjunction meaning 'when', helps us see that it is not the immersion that cleanses one from sin, but rather the calling his name...

It doesn't change the meaning that much to me. Another way of saying it is this: When you call on his name, you will be immersed in the Holy Spirit which regenerates and washes you clean.

[gregoryfl]

Ok. I don't expect agreement.

[Seth]

I do agree with you on what causes us to receive a cleansing of sin, calling upon his name. I just might have another view on what baptism that scripture is referring to.

[gregoryfl]

Ah. For what it is worth, the reason I see it as referencing the physical is because he is told to 'arise', which would make sense if he were to get up to be immersed in physical water. I would think he could be spiritually baptized sitting right where he was.

This will be it for me. I think I have gotten away from the intent of the original post, which I think had more to do with 'why repent' than what baptism is.

Wholeness to you my dear brother,

Ronen

[Seth]

In context, the word "arise" could be because Paul had some work to do after he had received his sight, not necessarily because he needed to be dunked in water:

"The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard. And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name."

There's no actual indication that Paul left the house at that moment to go out to a lake. It could be Ananias just wanted to lay hands on him.

This will be it for me. I think I have gotten away from the intent of the original post, which I think had more to do with 'why repent' than what baptism is.

I think so too  :thumbsup:

[rosered]

Matthew 10  32"Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

Yes, I could see water baptism as a form of an outward expression, or demonstration, of faith. However, your use of Matthew 10:32 suggests to me that someone who does not get water baptized, for whatever reason, is failing to confess and could be denied by Christ before God? Not sure if that's what you mean. Would that mean people have to be water baptized only in public, and not in private?

In this conversation, water baptism has been connected with the James 2 teaching that works make our faith complete and how that faith without works is dead. I find that disturbing to say the least, because those are not the works James is referring to, and that could lead to all kinds of self-condemnation for those who have not been water baptized, and judgments made on their faith. Some people don't believe in it and have their reasons, even if others disagree with their reasons.

I actually think people shouldn't get baptized in water unless they are fully convinced of it. Faith is the most important thing and being water baptized only because someone else is convinced of it, without being fully convinced of it themselves, to me is acting outside of faith.

   Like Ronan and you also just said Seth , lol

   we are still so carnal as babes and   when so carnal still we  do the   literal interpretation      but the spiritual   meaning is very much     arise from the dead and Christ shall give you Light     coming up    rising   from the dead  sea [waters]    as an act of obedience   by faith   that  small mustard seed of faith   to move mountains     must grow first
  the only ones,  little ones know how to do    standing naked and open  , vulnerable  showing    their own filth of the flesh   ..  even the disciples were in trial period   under the water baptism but learned though their experiences with Jesus  before hand       and Jesus said you still do not yet understand     ?


  and wait  for the Lord to   come to baptise     you with HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE     This being the clothing  of Christ covering them  as  power from on High
Luke 24   
Jesus Opens the Meaning of Scriptures
...48"You are witnesses of these things. 49"And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."

 

[Seth]

I thought I would provide some of my own observations about Acts 10

Acts 10
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47 "Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Well, obviously Peter knew they had already been baptized with SOMETHING. They were speaking in tongues and the gift had been given to them. Now, Peter had been struggling with the issue of Gentile and Jewish separation, before this moment he was given the symbolic vision of how all the Jews and Gentiles may now be joined together.

So, Peter says "nobody can stand in the way of being baptized in water."  He literally clarifies "with water" there and who would want to forbid the Gentiles that baptism? Probably all the other Jews who had once thought like Peter, that only the Jews could be cleansed.

It might be that Peter had them taken out and water baptized as a visual demonstration to others that God has indeed cleansed the Gentiles.

[Abigail]

We talk about two baptisms, namely with water or with Spirit.
I am not totally sure it's always one or the other in every scripture.
Like Roman 6 speaks about being baptized into Christ Jesus, into His death
For me that doesn't necesarily mean in/with the Spirit or in the water. I think maybe it just means becoming part of the Body of Christ, as to be 'in Christ' as Paul so often writes about. Also when it says being baptized 'in the name of Jesus', it actually says INTO His name, imo meaning into Who He is.
So Jesus baptizing us 'with Spirit' imo might not be the same as we being immersed into Him.

[rosered]

 This may sound so silly , but the words are    Life to those whom know    this much  , by understanding what they read and know already   by the scriptures   

I guess you could say water baptism is by faith , many of the Gentiles had   a simple and child like faith /virgins   and ready to receive    unlike the      wise old ones  had been hardened by Gods own   design    to allow all to enter   by faith believing       for me the the law  and prophets as the ministration of   death to the old  sinful  self   open and naked before  all being      a husbandman and ruler over    your mind[eve] and   rise   to a clean conscience   as to empty/ virgin mind   clean  swept  and ready to receive  the mind of Christ obedience    to the LIVING GOD 

as the new creature  in Christ     paul spoke of this in  Romans 7  as to beginning a new life after His conversion   , being turned around   as both laws were working in his members       the new heavens and wait for the new earth and being a body   with good  earth the meek shall inherit the earth    [Matt 5 ]

only the new spiritual mind would  comply     with the Spiritual Law of God  being Love  in union           
when covered in Christ ,  who do you see ? the old man  or Christ as your  Lord ?

  Know    no man  after flesh any longer but  by the new  Spiritual  being    risen from the dead  and meaningless life    as in the days of our flesh desires and wills
become lesser and the    new  creature    in Christ belongs to Christ   as a son of God from the  pure   virgin  mind as a womb   , we wait on the Lord to begin a new  purpose in us      though the Holy Spirit  baptism  transforming and  renewing of the mind   as the seed is Christ in  you     Word of God  /TRUTH    growing by Gods grace       

 

       2Coritn 5 

We are Christ's Ambassadors
...15and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.


16Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh,


yet now we know Him in this way no longer. 17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come....
Its is all a progression    from faith to faith and place to place       as   the Lord does all his   works  for us as we be   willing to change     our old ways and nature
  to His new and perfect one       Jesus offered to    keep them and protect them but they were not willing     they had to take the broad path that leads to self destruction  first   and  it will be as it is written ,  ,  blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord     , they can still enter at any time   ,  any can  come now 
  the FATHER    has opened    heaven for all to enter  that will come to Christ       .   
peace brothers and sisters in Christ 

[Seth]

We talk about two baptisms, namely with water or with Spirit.
I am not totally sure it's always one or the other in every scripture.
Like Roman 6 speaks about being baptized into Christ Jesus, into His death
For me that doesn't necesarily mean in/with the Spirit or in the water. I think maybe it just means becoming part of the Body of Christ, as to be 'in Christ' as Paul so often writes about. Also when it says being baptized 'in the name of Jesus', it actually says INTO His name, imo meaning into Who He is.
So Jesus baptizing us 'with Spirit' imo might not be the same as we being immersed into Him.

Paul does say,

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

[rosered]

We talk about two baptisms, namely with water or with Spirit.
I am not totally sure it's always one or the other in every scripture.
Like Roman 6 speaks about being baptized into Christ Jesus, into His death
For me that doesn't necesarily mean in/with the Spirit or in the water. I think maybe it just means becoming part of the Body of Christ, as to be 'in Christ' as Paul so often writes about. Also when it says being baptized 'in the name of Jesus', it actually says INTO His name, imo meaning into Who He is.
So Jesus baptizing us 'with Spirit' imo might not be the same as we being immersed into Him.

I believe   they both serve Gods purpose   Abigail


  and it is depending on faith     with hope  and Love 
  of the 3 parts to  receive   in fulness  into ONE  ,,,

first your mind must be changed  by faith in the living God  and beliving  Jesus Christ is the son of God    [repent means change your mind      Paul speaks of this  plainly in Romans  6  , 7 and 8   
  and having the mind of Christ

  than our hearts     hope   being the Christ in you the hope of glory made alive to God  by the works of the Cross    in Jesus Christ        as the day star rises in our hearts   ,  this is Him being Lifted up to draw all men unto Himself      the rising up  into a glorious state of being   Holy as we begin to understand what this really means  within us   .


and lastly the body itself         
and this is where the LOVE   comes  ,     change your  lowly  bodies   

PHIL 3 Citizenship in Heaven
...20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;


21who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory,

by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.


Love is the greatest thing  of all   , knowing  helps   bit  is not perfection  ,  love perfect bond    and to know the full impact of His love for us   one day  it   is unspeakable and full of glory........... coll3   

Put on the New Self
...13bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. 14Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity. 15Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful....

all in ONE  AND ONE IN ALL     GOD IS  SOOOO  AWESOME !!       we have faith He will do it and hope  we see this and Love  Him because we know he loves us and bears long with us  though it all


   :banana:

[Abigail]

Paul does say,

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Is being baptized BY the Spirit into Christ's body (1Cor12) the same thing as 'He (Christ) will baptize you WITH the Holy Spirit'?
Acts 8:
16 He (Holy Spirit) had not yet fallen upon any of them, but they had only been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus

[Seth]

I think the context of the Corinthian verse is that we are baptized by spiritual water into the body and made to drink of the same.

[Tom]

Paul does say,

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Is being baptized BY the Spirit into Christ's body (1Cor12) the same thing as 'He (Christ) will baptize you WITH the Holy Spirit'?
Acts 8:
16 He (Holy Spirit) had not yet fallen upon any of them, but they had only been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus

I think the answer to your question is yes. 1 Corinthians 12:13 is speaking of spirit baptism, and, in Acts 8:16, the Samaritans seem to have been baptized in water but didn't receive holy spirit until the apostles laid hands on them.

[Tom]

That's why spirit baptism is the "one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5) because we're baptized into the body of Christ, which is what's happening in this era of grace until all those chosen are called out of the nations.

[eaglesway]

Too bad Paul, who wrote that, didnt understand it and practised something different.  :dontknow:

I do not see how the Spirt baptism can be the "one baptism" in Acts 19, Paul asked them if they had received the Holy Spirit since they believed.

They had already believed, Why did Paul baptize them in water and lay hands on them? What difference did it make?

Using Pauls epistles to refute his practice is intellectually inconsistent.

In Hebrews 6, one of the foundation doctrines is the doctrine of "baptisms and of laying on of hands". The book of Acts was provided to provide a link between what was taught in the epistles and what was practiced by the apostles. Regardless of what one believes about the one baptism, this does not give them authority to discredit baptism in water.

Clearly there are multiple aspects of the "one baptism" or nothing makes sense because you wind up with and assumption the apostles did not understand in practise what they taught in scripture- and pitting one scripture against another.

When do you become a member of the body of Christ?

When you believe. So tell me, when is the baptism into death? When you die. When you believe. But wait, you are saying the one baptism is the Spirit baptism?


The Spirit baptism is A TESTIMONY OF WHAT HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE. The Spirit baptizes AFTER INITIAL SALVATION HAS ALREADY OCCURED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH in the revelation of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

So, the Spirit baptism cannot be the "one baptism"- at least not in totality.

"These three agree in one" John says, "the blood, the water and the Spiri"t.

We all agree that when a person believes they are washed in the blood, reconciled and have died and been raised in Jesus Christ.

So, the one baptism, if you want to assign "one" to any aspect of salvation would have to be repentence and faith towards God in Christ through which one becomes a believer.

Which is what I believe. But what then is this other baptism in the Spirit and why baptism in water?

It is really quite simple...."These three agree in one". By seeking to limit baptism to "a numerical one" in Eph 4 you have to deny all these other verses all over the gospels epistles and especially, Acts.

[eaglesway]

Actually, in regards to salvation, nothing is necessary but faith. Both the Spirit baptism and water baptism come after salvation and are FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE BELIEVERS WALK AND PREISTHOOD as disciples.

[Seth]

Actually, in regards to salvation, nothing is necessary but faith. Both the Spirit baptism and water baptism come after salvation and are FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE BELIEVERS WALK AND PREISTHOOD as disciples.

Salvation from what? Belief doesn't save from sin if it is alone. The Bible says we are saved by his life. Peter says baptism does save, only I don't believe he was talking about water baptism.

[eaglesway]

Belief - belief is repentence and faith, absolutley saves totally as regards eternal life and union with God. Does that mean you shouldnt get healed if you need it?

Did the Spirit baptism make them believers or was it evidence of their having already been believers?

[eaglesway]

Peter said baptism saves by the answer of a clear conscience. He is talking about the efficacy of baptism upon the believer, not teaching baptism as necessary to eternal life and union with God.

[Seth]

I think he is talking about what Paul says in Romans 5:10, how much more having been reconciled shall we be saved by his life.

Belief is not "his life" but a way to be connected to his life. That is how I believe baptism of the Spirit saves, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

[eaglesway]

Its a fine line to draw between "believing" and "life", I think. I can see the reason for the distinction in terms of defning aspects of salvation.

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

Thats pretty clear. IMO absolutley clear.

When Jesus was speaking to them about the baptism in the Holy Spirit, they were already believers, and had life aionian already as well.

The Spirit baptizes us into the body of Christ when we believe ala Romans 10, and everything that happens to us as believers is done by the Spirit. Our common salvation has many aspects, but is certainly sealed in us when we believe.

If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.....

The confession of the mouth results in salvation because it is the true testimony of the heart. Everything that happens to us as the result of faith is done by the Spirit.

I think it is an error of discernment and "knowing what Spirit we are of" to divide things up as laws, whether the baptism Jesus spoke of which occurred in Acts and continues throughout this age, or water baptism, or anything else.

Whenever a man turns to the Lord the veil is taken away. Turning towards that in which we belive is what saves- if what we believe is that Jesus Christ is Lord and God raised Him from the dead- as Lord and Savior being the natural conclusion of those words.

Life is immediate upon believing, believing being defined in those terms.