repent and be baptized

[eaglesway]

A worthy and blessed decision.

[eaglesway]

God is heping us all. and if we are helping each other and others- we are blessed :o)

[lastpost]

To each their own in my opinion!  :girlheart:
I was baptized in a Baptist Church at the age of 16. It was one of the absolute best days/moments of my life. I had never had such peace and joy like that before. Do I think it was the act of water dunking itself? No, but what it symbolized spiritually that took place inside of me. An all-out full blown dedicating of myself to God and Christ, and a total assurance that I was His and He was mine. Do I think it's possible to have that without a water baptism? Sure! As each one feels led by the Spirit of God, that is what they should do, or not do imho.  :HeartThrob:

Hi lomarah,

We have a service for Baptism for anyone who wants it, it is a lovely service and it is done in the privacy of our church/temple/chapel/sanctuary/meeting place. I personally have never undergone this service although some others have asked me to help them take it.

I personally find that the Holy Communion service brings me into as much contact with Jesus Christ as I can take - it takes me quite a while to become re-orientated until the next one comes around. I find that Christ is already in me and I follow Him, and this has been so for a while and I do not feel any less for not having the Baptism service.

Peace in this life and forever more.

[Tom]

I was baptized in jehovah's wittness...and they added  Jehovah's organization into the name of God,Jesus and

the Holy spirit.  so when I was brought out and  taught about the salvation of all men.  I baptized myself

  all by myself in our lake..to rededicate myself to Him...and be washed clean of all those false doctrines I believed.

   what churches denominations should some-one get baptized into now days?  the very churches He called us out of?

     :dontknow:  my ears are open

:)  Your post made me smile, Sheila....that you baptized yourself when the Lord called you out of JWs. 

When I was a young Catholic girl, after getting home from school, my thing to do was to take white bread, squish it into little round shaped wafers and give it to myself..saying, "the body of Christ, amen."    Only the priests were supposed to be doing that....but for some reason,  I didn't care.  I'd go through a few pieces of bread doing that every day!  :)  I never told on myself either, in the confessional booths.  Ain't religion something?!

And to Tom...you mentioned a few posts up that you believe all we need to do is love God and one another..and I agree with that, of course....It's just that I think obeying what He said to do is loving Him.  So I guess your position is that you don't think He said for all believers to be water baptized.....but I'm not seeing that in scripture, even though I do agree we are baptized into Christ as you have shared.
I think water baptism is also an experience, generally, of confessing Him publically, before men.

"one Lord, one faith, one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5)

So, if there's one baptism now, which baptism is it, water or spirit?

"There is the vexed question of baptism. This was a Jewish rite and is usually translated "washing" in the "Old Testament." A Jew who broke the law had to bring a sacrifice to God and be baptized before approaching God. This for every time he sinned. The Baptist made it a rite significant of acceptance of the Messiah. No person can enter the kingdom without immersion in water. But now, baptism in holy spirit by our Lord alone can make us members of the body of Christ, and water baptism is no longer obligatory or of any use. To perform this command of the law now, is to fall from grace." (p234-Give the Jew his Due-Our Lord's Earthly Ministry-V13P2-Unsearchable Riches)

"In the later epistles there is but one baptism (Eph.4:5; Col.2:12); in the earlier there were not less than two, the real and interdispensational baptism into Christ's death (Rom.6:3) and a water baptism as connected with the witness of the kingdom (1 Cor.1:14-17; Acts 19:3-6). Besides these there was the baptism with holy spirit of the early Acts period, which came at least upon Cornelius' household and upon the Jewish believers at Pentecost (Acts 11:16), and the baptism of repentance (Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; Acts 13:24) of the Gospels and Acts period, which was practiced by John and by our Lord's twelve apostles and other disciples (John 4:1,2). This was equivalent to the baptism for the remission of sins (Acts 22:16)." (p233-But One Baptism Now-Are The Bride And The Body Identical?-V17P2-Unsearchable Riches)

See the attachments. The third attachment explains why Paul participated in various Jewish rituals when he associated with the twelve.

http://concordant.org/ur/index.html

[attachment deleted by admin]

[micah7:9]

Eph 4:3  Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4  There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5  One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6  One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

From what I can read there is ONE baptism and we also have the " unity of the Spirit"   unity does not have division. And we have the words of John

Luk 3:16  John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Act 19:3  And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

John's baptism was WATER.  As far as I understand the WORD is our water. It is my opinion that there was a maturing in those men of God and perhaps that is why there was less and less speaking of water baptism in understanding and more of what Jesus said Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

In my opinion should one have the desire to be water baptized, do it. My opinion, water baptizing is  a doctrine held over to produce the same mental thinking as the hell doctrine which stirs only guilt. "the flesh profiteth nothing" it doesn't say profiteth a little.
1Co 12:13  For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Tom I agree with your offerings. :dsunny:

[Psalm91:4]

Hi Tom.....the third one down under Individual Issues is about Herman Rocke....I just downloaded it to my phone...is that the one you mean or did I misunderstand?

[eaglesway]

Eph 4:3  Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4  There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5  One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6  One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

From what I can read there is ONE baptism and we also have the " unity of the Spirit"   unity does not have division. And we have the words of John

Luk 3:16  John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Act 19:3  And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

John's baptism was WATER.  As far as I understand the WORD is our water. It is my opinion that there was a maturing in those men of God and perhaps that is why there was less and less speaking of water baptism in understanding and more of what Jesus said Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

In my opinion should one have the desire to be water baptized, do it. My opinion, water baptizing is  a doctrine held over to produce the same mental thinking as the hell doctrine which stirs only guilt. "the flesh profiteth nothing" it doesn't say profiteth a little.
1Co 12:13  For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Tom I agree with your offerings. :dsunny:

Very selective offerings. It seems to me that all the scriputes on the topic must be considered.

Mind you, I am not teaching baptismal salvation. All I have said is that baptism in water remains in effect under the new covenant, and provides a benefit that is more than just ritual. Acts 19 makes it clear to me that Paul thought, taught and practised this.

I think there is more than enough scripture to support that view, so I have offered it, and I stand behind it- but I am not trying to make baptism a law for anyone, or teach baptismal justification, or any such thing.

As I have said repeatedly, Jesus submitted to it to fulfill all righteousness, the apostles taught it, let every person be convinced in their own heart how they ought to respond to the scriptures on the matter- but at least consider all the scriptures.

[rosered]

 I know this sounds  odd to some  and agree with Tom and Micah and others as well ,   this  thread has covered a lot of   the ignorance /darkness   and bring      much Light on the subject     
  We all agree       in some way or the other with everything that has been said , to come to our own conclusions     



and the meaning may not resonate with  us  all at the same time , but the seed is planted in the willing and well tilled soil     of our hearts the seed in Christ and its of faith and it also is the WORD OF GOD  made flesh  living in us though  the  Spirit of Life   and casting out and putting him to death  that old spirit in a  man that  has  had the strong hold for way to long ..

  But   it is in my belief       ,    that becoming  dead to sin   is what the WORLD IS  SIN AND ERROR  and all about the cross and putting that old man of sin to death  in and on your cross and  put his mouth to silence   that he cannot boast     in every last one of us and makes ROOM FOR JESUS TO rule and reign in our hearts    and the LORD OUR GOD
Till that man of sin is no more  and the Light  of His   dwelling within us     has  taken every deep and dark cranny that   old monster hides in and exposes     this old man of sin from the ages !

world sin error
Romans 6 Dead to Sin, Alive to God



...3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?


4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,...

1john 4 Testing the Spirits
...5They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them.


6We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

we rise to the higher   place , as seated with Christ in heavenly places        , knowing God and the Light that shines LIKE THE NOON DAY SUN 
  till the darkness    fades  and and our hearts are no longer    hiding    this sinful self

I know its a process , I still wonder  even after the Lords Spirit teaches me and deals ever so patient with me   always   ,     what in the world !!!

where was that ugly angry thing hiding   within ?  I HATE IT   more !!!  ,  than those who are offended by it  or harmed   in any way  , its brought on by    anger over offense       . learning to forgive   not only   those who  tresspassed against me but forgive  myself , because    ,  there is a lot of beating up  and  self loathing  going on over it ...

I am humbled by this all the time knowing   I can only turn to Jesus in my hour  of need  , to    put to death that       lying cheating blasphemer     forever !!

better to obey , but that man of sin will never ever obey   the Law of God         because its spiritual    and Love is  what makes it     work in us   all
  but   all the sacrificing and sorry attitude   does not change the fact  that it rose up in there   to cause great chaos  and war ,      in a peaceful place ...
sin breeds  more sin   , if one could live alone and all by yourself , you might be safe if never ever  tempted      , but  woe to the temptation  it is a set up to utterly fail
  pride comes before a fall    ,     pride made me upset with an old foe     and got the best of me 
   the  most open and honest post to date I   ever made or confessed   I am dipped and dipped in death over and over again    , I believe this is why the bible  says do NOT get weary    , because it is a wearying     process     , in our weakness [sinful flesh]    the SPIRIT CHRIST IN YOU ]    has the victory  already won and the grace  of God is a reality , not just some afterthought       , you KNOW  your saved by grace  of God   and no other way is it done ...

  keeping us humble and needy  ,  need Jesus always ...  I cannot be fake and pretend  everything is perfect   and have  it all , far cry from it , I am a sinner  saved by grace    to my dying day

FULLY   healed and made   whole , the   battles   are real  but the war is not over till that last enemy  being    death   is fully conquered in Christ ........

[Tom]

Hi Tom.....the third one down under Individual Issues is about Herman Rocke....I just downloaded it to my phone...is that the one you mean or did I misunderstand?

Sue, I think you were looking for the one attached to this message.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Tom]

I never mean to cause division or stress among the brothers and sisters. I just share my perspective from what I've learned in my life. I don't claim to be an authority. I think the only authority we have is an accurate translation of the word of God.

I get baptized every morning, but I don't consider it to have any spiritual significance.

Water baptism used by the Jews was symbolic of spiritual cleansing, but why should we of the nations, the ecclesia, the body of Christ, need anything symbolic done in the flesh now because it is Christ himself who baptizes us in spirit?

"For in one spirit also we all are baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and all are made to imbibe one spirit." (1 Corinthians 12:13)

In Galatians Paul says, when you revert to the law, you fall out of grace.

"Exempted from Christ were you who are being justified in law. You fall out of grace. For we, in spirit, are awaiting the expectation of righteousness by faith." (Galatians 5:4,5)

Even if the ritual of water baptism is simply intended to be a personal one time demonstration of dying with Christ, it's not necessary because we should be showing that in our life everyday anyway by everything we say and do if we're true believers. I think it's just a case of the church mixing the two evangels into a distorted evangel that Paul actually cursed in Galatians.

"I am marveling that thus, swiftly, you are transferred from that which calls you in the grace of Christ, to a different evangel, which is not another, except it be that some who are disturbing you want also to distort the evangel of Christ. But if ever we also, or a messenger out of heaven, should be bringing an evangel to you beside that which we bring to you, let him be anathema!" (Galatians 1:6-8)

"For whoever are baptized into Christ, put on Christ, in Whom there is no Jew nor yet Greek, there is no slave nor yet free, there is no male and female, for you all are one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:27,28)

We of the nations, the ecclesia, the body of Christ, are not subject to the Jewish law of water baptism and repentance for entry into the kingdom of the heavens on earth in Israel in the next eon ruled by their Jewish Messiah because we're saved in grace, through faith by God through the blood of Christ on the cross for an eonian celestial destiny.

The church has presumed to take the place of Israel and adopted its customs and laws which don't apply to those of us of the nations. The Jews at the Jerusalem conference called to discuss the problem of Paul converting the nations without requiring them to follow the Jewish law wanted to cling to their tradition, but we're not subject to the Jewish law and never have been. The Jewish ritual of water baptism is only practiced by Christians today because Rome hijacked Christianity and distorted Paul's evangel for the nations. The Roman Catholic Church even claims that Peter was its first pope because it prefers Peter's evangel intended for the Jewish people even though James, who wasn't one of the twelve apostles, took over leadership of the Jerusalem ecclesia simply because he was the brother of Jesus.

All scripture is for us, but it's not all about us. Confusion comes from mixing people, times, and places that have different operations of God. The Christian church using the Jewish ritual of water baptism is a prime example.

[eaglesway]

There is no stress for me Tom, and really, no division, altho I disagree heartily with your position- you are a brother in Christ. When iron sharpens iron, there are sparks- but thats no big deal if we conduct ourselves in a mature way.

Jesus did not disseminate Jewish traditions as if He were bound by His physical, national or religious heritage. He was baptized, by His own words, "To fulfill all righteousness". He instituted baptism, not Peter or Paul. They received it from Him, and it had nothing to do with traditions of the Jews, it was the gospel Peter and Paul received by revelation directly from Jesus Christ, the whole counsel of God- as Paul himself described it to the elders from Ephesus when he departed for Rome.

So, it ought not be disregarded.

[rosered]

 

I liked what you shared and agree with    some of it

  Yet I cannot help but say this     part here I cannot agree with    totally

All scripture is for us, but it's not all about us. Confusion comes from mixing people, times, and places that have different operations of God. The Christian church using the Jewish ritual of water baptism is a prime example.

This life you are granted by  GOD  is the only one you have  ,    not a one of us can  determine      how it will end ....and especially  when we do meet Jesus face to face   and give an account   to what you gathered along the way       and kept in your heart   as treasure     

I do believe it is a personal and in your face   JESUS experience   if you can build  a good foundation in Christ only

for me that is the only way , you can " get"    past all the  muck and sludge  of being just a mortal human being and  we are torn  down and built up on a regular basis , GOD DOES NOT CHANGE     , He is the only one who can change us , but will not if  we are not willing to change our minds and hearts
  you see what I mean ? I am not accountable   for you any more than you are for me

we stand before the judgment seat of Christ  and   that alone is going to be    surreal      , you cannot go back and change a  thing , this time now is  for us to "come   clean "  so to speak ..
  guilty before God    Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God.
   For me its better to have an intimate relationship with Him   now   and speak to Him and Him to you   in secret
  than all the talking about God and HIM    that is  ever  done ..  but this is just me and my perspective      , we only share because it may help someone along the way   , in  whatever way God will  allow it to .by His own spirit witness of truth  , love and life  in it..


I do not see any divisions  , just layers of  TRUTH       in everyone discussing    the subject  of baptism   and its  meaning to them personally 

[Tom]

There is no stress for me Tom, and really, no division, altho I disagree heartily with your position- you are a brother in Christ. When iron sharpens iron, there are sparks- but thats no big deal if we conduct ourselves in a mature way.

Jesus did not disseminate Jewish traditions as if He were bound by His physical, national or religious heritage. He was baptized, by His own words, "To fulfill all righteousness". He instituted baptism, not Peter or Paul. They received it from Him, and it had nothing to do with traditions of the Jews, it was the gospel Peter and Paul received by revelation directly from Jesus Christ, the whole counsel of God- as Paul himself described it to the elders from Ephesus when he departed for Rome.

So, it ought not be disregarded.

I agree that the evangel Jesus and then Peter preached to the Jewish people, which maintained all the Jewish tradition including the ritual of water baptism, shouldn't be "disregarded." I just don't think the Jewish tradition is for those of us of the nations today. Obviously I'm in the minority about that here, but I'm just saying what I believe according to what I've read. Everybody can judge for themselves what they think is the best way to interpret scripture. I don't think anything in scripture should be "disregarded." I just think that everything doesn't apply to everybody, and, when that's done, it causes confusion.

[rosered]

There is no stress for me Tom, and really, no division, altho I disagree heartily with your position- you are a brother in Christ. When iron sharpens iron, there are sparks- but thats no big deal if we conduct ourselves in a mature way.

Jesus did not disseminate Jewish traditions as if He were bound by His physical, national or religious heritage. He was baptized, by His own words, "To fulfill all righteousness". He instituted baptism, not Peter or Paul. They received it from Him, and it had nothing to do with traditions of the Jews, it was the gospel Peter and Paul received by revelation directly from Jesus Christ, the whole counsel of God- as Paul himself described it to the elders from Ephesus when he departed for Rome.

So, it ought not be disregarded.

GOLLY JOHN !    said it better than i could  ever  even try to ..

  It is  by Spiritual revelation  and experience     

   you don't know nothing till you get though it      and  that is with all of us
  apparently some have not experienced  this yet       or know how to   yet     

  But  all the apostles  learned and than experienced it   , Even Jesus come in mortal flesh to   KNOW   what we are going though  personal revelation     and is still in every last one of us   I BELIEVE

[eaglesway]

I completely disagree that the evangel that Jesus and Peter preached was a special dispensational gospel to the Jews. It was just the gospel...."glad tidings to all people". The gospel of the kingdom of God.

Even if it was though, why would God suddenly have Jesus and Peter continue Jewish traditions when He had Jesus so effectively rebuke those very traditions?

That doesnt make sense to me, personally.

One Lord, one baptism, one faith, Two Gospels, or Three maybe?


Seems mighty convenient to me.

[eaglesway]

  It is  by Spiritual revelation  and experience     

   you don't know nothing till you get though it      and  that is with all of us
  apparently some have not experienced  this yet       or know how to   yet     

  But  all the apostles  learned and than experienced it   , Even Jesus come in mortal flesh to   KNOW   what we are going though  personal revelation     and is still in every last one of us   I BELIEVE

Exactly Rosered, it is by spiritual revelation and experience. The word made flesh, become bread of life as we eat, transformed into the spirit of life in Christ Jesus and His blood in our veins. So wonderful He is.

[rosered]

  It is  by Spiritual revelation  and experience     

   you don't know nothing till you get though it      and  that is with all of us
  apparently some have not experienced  this yet       or know how to   yet     

  But  all the apostles  learned and than experienced it   , Even Jesus come in mortal flesh to   KNOW   what we are going though  personal revelation     and is still in every last one of us   I BELIEVE

Exactly Rosered, it is by spiritual revelation and experience. The word made flesh, become bread of life as we eat, transformed into the spirit of life in Christ Jesus and His blood in our veins. So wonderful He is.

  :HeartThrob:   Thanks for the confirmation John   , I still struggle    in them experiences     :sigh:

[Psalm91:4]

Tom....that link won't open on my phone so just an fyi, I will not be able to study it till I have access to a computer much later on tonight.

In the meantime..."being baptized into His death" is on my mind and how that is possibly even connected to the lake of fire in an age to come pertaining to the reconciliation of all.

Mark 10:29 and Luke 12:50 come to mind.  This topic should probably be discussed in another thread though!
:)

[Tom]

I completely disagree that the evangel that Jesus and Peter preached was a special dispensational gospel to the Jews. It was just the gospel...."glad tidings to all people". The gospel of the kingdom of God.

Even if it was though, why would God suddenly have Jesus and Peter continue Jewish traditions when He had Jesus so effectively rebuke those very traditions?

That doesnt make sense to me, personally.

One Lord, one baptism, one faith, Two Gospels, or Three maybe?


Seems mighty convenient to me.

I know we've been through all this before, but I agree the evangel is that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was entombed, and roused from among the dead through the glory of the Father. The Jews seemed to have maintained their tradition though, as was evidenced at the Jerusalem counsel, and Jesus himself said he was only sent to the Jews and told his disciples not even to go on a road of the nations.

"These twelve Jesus commissions, charging them, saying, "Into a road of the nations you may not pass forth, and into a city of the Samaritans you may not be entering. Yet be going rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Now going, herald, saying that 'Near is the kingdom of the heavens!'" (Matthew 10:5-7)

"I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew 15:24)

And Peter preached only to Jews who gathered in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost about the promised coming kingdom of the heavens on earth in Israel which is not what Paul preached to the nations.

""Let all the house of Israel know certainly, then, that God makes Him Lord as well as Christ--this Jesus Whom you crucify!" Now, hearing this, their heart was pricked with compunction. Besides, they said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "What should we be doing, men, brethren?" Now Peter is averring to them, "Repent and be baptized each of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the pardon of your sins, and you shall be obtaining the gratuity of the holy spirit. For to you is the promise and to your children, and to all those afar, whosoever the Lord our God should be calling to Him." (Acts 2:36-39)

I attached a PDF file earlier explaining Paul's association with the twelve in Acts, but he didn't preach the earthly kingdom of the heavens in Israel to the nations because we have an eonian celestial destiny. Like I said before, we've gone through this debate before, but I still see something different going on with the Jewish people and the nations even though it's all about Christ's death, entombment, and resurrection.

[Tom]

Tom....that link won't open on my phone so just an fyi, I will not be able to study it till I have access to a computer much later on tonight.

In the meantime..."being baptized into His death" is on my mind and how that is possibly even connected to the lake of fire in an age to come pertaining to the reconciliation of all.

Mark 10:29 and Luke 12:50 come to mind.  This topic should probably be discussed in another thread though!
:)

I just emailed you the PDF file I think you're looking for because I think you've opened them on your phone before through your email account. The second death-the lake of fire is for unbelievers who will be condemned at the great white throne. Our baptism into the body of Christ symbolizes our death with his.

[eaglesway]

The second death-the lake of fire is for unbelievers who will be condemned at the great white throne. Our baptism into the body of Christ symbolizes our death with his.

I agree with the above statement.

However, I also believe that in addition to symbolizing that death(the one baptism), baptism in water is also efficacious in a three fold benefit.... a signet ring testifying to the universe that we are in Him(a valuable gift, a marriage ring, a circumscision made without hands), an operation of God upon the conscience(a burial of the body of the sins of the flesh- Paul; a declaration, the answer of a clear conscience- Peter), A separation from the world as the Red Sea separated Israel from Egypt, Noah from the world being destroyed by water(Peter).

These three agree in one, the blood(repentence and faith), the water(washing of regeneration, washing of water with the word, burial of the horse and rider), Spirit(pillar of cloud and flame, the promise of the Spirit)- as per Acts 2:38

This is the reason that Jesus commanded baptism in water and the apostles taught and practiced it- not for justification, but also not just pure ritual, but as the obedience of faith- a first step in setting the mind of man aside and walking in the obedience of faith. In my opnion belivers often suffer for the lack of it, being a part of the full deliverance and healing package, along with the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

[Tom]

I hear what you're saying, but I still don't think water baptism is for us, and I don't believe we, the body of Christ, are the bride of the lamb. I also think, in addition to our baptism symbolizing our death with Christ, it is a spiritual reality because we are baptized into the body of Christ, not by a man in water, but by Christ himself with holy spirit.

I keep meaning to ask you if you stayed in touch with the Jesus People because I tried to share universal reconciliation with them in Chicago, and they didn't seem to go for it. I also found out they were connected to some denomination then.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/CorrectPartitioning/AreTheBrideAndBodyIdentical0.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/CorrectPartitioning/AreWeTheBrideOfTheLamb.html

[micah7:9]

In the paraphrased words of someone in the public view, If you like your doctrine you can keep your doctrine. :dsunny: :2c:

[eaglesway]

I don't think the Jesus people exist any more except perhaps as a scattered remnat. Most of them ended up in the Calvary Chapel movement and the Vineyard movement and denominational churches.

Baptism into death is a spiritual reality for believers because Jesus died for them. A believer receives that at repentence(death) and faith towards God(resurrection).

Baptism is burial. Paul says this several times, and that is all I have said it is.

I dont think discussing theories on who the Bride is for this thread. If you would like to start a thread on that I will gladly participate.

We agree i think that ther is one body- if not much else LOL

[eaglesway]

In the paraphrased words of someone in the public view, If you like your doctrine you can keep your doctrine. :dsunny: :2c:

Well, we all have the tendency to identify our own beliefs as the "truth" and the things others believe that we don't as "their doctrine"

Thats why is we keep things in a collegial tone and refer to the scriptures for context, our discussions may bear some fruit.