Obama, according to this movie is not a natural born citizen and therefore cannot, according to our constitution, be a president:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/this_could_be_the_game_changer.html
After clicking the link above, scroll down to the movie and be amazed.
Tony
I know...it's just amazing. Why doesn't he just give the court his birth certificate? Any one of us could do this with about 5 minutes worth of effort (one phone call).
Instead, he seals his records and stonewalls the court?
It doesn't add up.
Oh, Pleeeeeeeease. Barack OBama is is one of the best Presidential candidates we have seen in a very long time.
He is an American citizen.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
Speaking of Obama....
He's a "christian".
BUT.
what if he WERE muslim?
SO WHAT?
Isn't "freedom of religion" one of the cornerstones of this country?
All of the people shouting out "he's a muslim!!!" are ignorant.
This country was NOT founded on Christian principles as so many people like to think.
And if someone is going to discount him because his name is "Obama" and that "sounds like Osama", then that person really needs to get a life or grow a brain.
Quote from: sparrow on October 21, 2008, 05:34:45 PM
Oh, Pleeeeeeeease. Barack OBama is is one of the best Presidential candidates we have seen in a very long time.
He is an American citizen.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
Too bad the court won't accept an electronic reproduction birth certificate from a random website.
When I apply for a passport, they wouldn't accept that from me, either.
Maybe before you start slinging accusations around, you should actually do a little research first. Rumormongering is not a good thing.
I have researched it. The court case is asking him to present his birth certificate to the court. He is refusing.
What is his problem?
Quote from: Molly on October 21, 2008, 06:25:25 PM
I have researched it. The court case is asking him to present his birth certificate to the court. He is refusing.
What is his problem?
Right, it's not really a rumor but fact. This former attorney general is litigating against Obama and the DNC to prove Obama really is not an American citizen. If he wanted to clear all this up he should just turn over his real birth certificate to the court.
It's not that hard to do and put this to rest.
Whats really hard to put to rest, is the underlying predujice and fears that many whites have about a black man being president. Their inability to cope with this growing dynamic of all men being equal. The oncomming truth that white people are not the only capable people on earth, nor do they lead the earth, nor do they have to. Their inability, ( some of them), to share power.
And this is what being in a position of power so long can do to human nature.
Peace.
Quote from: sparrow on October 21, 2008, 05:38:36 PM
Speaking of Obama....
He's a "christian".
BUT.
what if he WERE muslim?
SO WHAT?
Isn't "freedom of religion" one of the cornerstones of this country?
All of the people shouting out "he's a muslim!!!" are ignorant.
This country was NOT founded on Christian principles as so many people like to think.
And if someone is going to discount him because his name is "Obama" and that "sounds like Osama", then that person really needs to get a life or grow a brain.
Lying matters. And, yes, our founders were Christian and their thinking was based on the Bible.
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station
to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
--Declaration of Independence
14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;
16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.--Romans 2
--------
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are
Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
--Declaration of Independence
God as the author of life:
Acts 3
15But you killed the very Source (the Author) of life, Whom God raised from the dead. To this we are witnesses.God as the author of liberty:
Gal 5:
1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.God's gift of the pursuit of happiness:
Ecc 3
13And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God.------
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union,
establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare,
and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
--United States Constitution, Preamble
God's gift of Justice:
23Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you give a tenth of your mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected and omitted the weightier (more important) matters of the Law--right and justice and mercy and fidelity. These you ought [particularly] to have done, without neglecting the others.--Mat 23
------
The Lord's day is exempt from work:
If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days
(Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.
--United States Constitution, Art 1, Section 7
--------
The year is defined by the Lord:
Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September
in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth. In Witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names.
--United States Constitution, Ratification
-----
The right to be secure in one's house--
Deut 24
10When thou dost lend thy brother any thing, thou shalt not go into his house to fetch his pledge.
11Thou shalt stand abroad, and the man to whom thou dost lend shall bring out the pledge abroad unto thee.The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
--United States Constitution, Fourth Amendment
--------
The co-equal branches of government is based on Isaiah 33:22
22For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.And so on...
Quote from: Mickiel on October 21, 2008, 07:06:55 PM
Whats really hard to put to rest, is the underlying predujice and fears that many whites have about a black man being president. Their inability to cope with this growing dynamic of all men being equal. The oncomming truth that white people are not the only capable people on earth, nor do they lead the earth, nor do they have to. Their inability, ( some of them), to share power.
And this is what being in a position of power so long can do to human nature.
Peace.
Who told you he was black? From what I read, he is pretty much 50/50 Arab and White, with a smidgen of Black, too small to qualify as Black. I would like to hear from his own mouth what his ethnic background is just to clear this up.
Quote from: Molly on October 21, 2008, 07:20:00 PM
Quote from: Mickiel on October 21, 2008, 07:06:55 PM
Whats really hard to put to rest, is the underlying predujice and fears that many whites have about a black man being president. Their inability to cope with this growing dynamic of all men being equal. The oncomming truth that white people are not the only capable people on earth, nor do they lead the earth, nor do they have to. Their inability, ( some of them), to share power.
And this is what being in a position of power so long can do to human nature.
Peace.
Who told you he was black? From what I read, he is pretty much 50/50 Arab and White, with a smidgen of Black, too small to qualify as Black. I would like to hear from his own mouth what his ethnic background is just to clear this up.
OH, FOR GOD'S SAKE.
This is too ridiculous.
I can't participate in this, anymore.
This is very, very, very sad.
Mickiel.... I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU.
Twinkle twinkle little star, how I wonder what you are. Up above the world so high, like a diamond in the Sky.
There are some people who think their race is like this star.
And God is going to humble these people, make them eat a very big peice of humble pie.
He's already started, because I can see the bits of pride being vomited up already.
Wherever it rears its ugly head, I can see it comming out.
Peace.
Quote from: sparrow on October 21, 2008, 07:22:38 PM
Quote from: Molly on October 21, 2008, 07:20:00 PM
Quote from: Mickiel on October 21, 2008, 07:06:55 PM
Whats really hard to put to rest, is the underlying predujice and fears that many whites have about a black man being president. Their inability to cope with this growing dynamic of all men being equal. The oncomming truth that white people are not the only capable people on earth, nor do they lead the earth, nor do they have to. Their inability, ( some of them), to share power.
And this is what being in a position of power so long can do to human nature.
Peace.
Who told you he was black? From what I read, he is pretty much 50/50 Arab and White, with a smidgen of Black, too small to qualify as Black. I would like to hear from his own mouth what his ethnic background is just to clear this up.
OH, FOR GOD'S SAKE.
This is too ridiculous.
I can't participate in this, anymore.
This is very, very, very sad.
Mickiel.... I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU.
What do you have against truth? Wouldn't it be nice to know the truth about the person who might be elected to the highest office in the land? The truth is not prejudiced, not biased, not twisted.
He could easily clear all these things up if he would just say something other than "change" [what change?] and "hope" [hope for what?].
Quote from: Mickiel on October 21, 2008, 07:25:15 PM
Twinkle twinkle little star, how I wonder what you are. Up above the world so high, like a diamond in the Sky.
There are some people who think their race is like this star.
And God is going to humble these people, make them eat a very big peice of humble pie.
He's already started, because I can see the bits of pride being vomited up already.
Wherever it rears its ugly head, I can see it comming out.
Peace.
You are making a completely prejudiced statement here.
Let's not turn this into a race war, please.
Truth has nothing to do with ethnic background.
Obama is extremely popular among people of all races and backgrounds.
Molly, Kenya is an AFRICAN country. NOT An Arab country.
Obama's Father is KENYAN.
And what DIFFERENCE would it make if Obama WERE OF ARAB DESCENT???????
What difference would it make?
Are YOU being prejudiced?
I tell you one thing. All of those people out there who are saying Obama is a "Terrorist" and he's "not one of us", and all that other vile, disgusting filth. If something happens, if some nutjob harms Obama.... All of those people will have Obama's blood on their hands! This is nothing more than a modern day lynchmob.
Quote from: sparrow on October 21, 2008, 07:39:27 PM
Molly, Kenya is an AFRICAN country. NOT An Arab country.
Obama's Father is KENYAN.
And what DIFFERENCE would it make if Obama WERE OF ARAB DESCENT???????
What difference would it make?
Are YOU being prejudiced?
I tell you one thing. All of those people out there who are saying Obama is a "Terrorist" and he's "not one of us", and all that other vile, disgusting filth. If something happens, if some nutjob harms Obama.... All of those people will have Obama's blood on their hands! This is nothing more than a modern day lynchmob.
It makes no difference. What matters is that he is a 'natural born citizen'--required by our Constitution to run for President, (which the court case is trying to clear up and he is fighting), and that he is telling us the truth about his background, as well as anything else he might say.
That's ALL that matters.
Don't you think we have a right to know everything about the candidates we are electing for this office?
This stuff about his birth certificate is very likely rumor nonsense, otherwise McCain's campaign would have used it in the commercial mud slinging, or at one of the debates. To my knowledge, none of the right wing broadcasters who do some news coverage like Pat Robertson or Hal Lindsey have brought this up, and they're very likely voting for McCain over one or two issues rather than looking at all of the issues the candidates stand for. McCain's definitely a fraud, whatever Obama is. Obama's definitely the less of two evils. It was funny to me all of the things that Colin Powell was saying about Obama this past Sunday as he gave his full support to Obama's campaign 'cause it was all of the same stuff that I kept saying. Obama rules his own spirit better than McCain. McCain's always seething. Of their two economic and foreign policy plans, Obama knows what he's talking about whereas McCain changes his opinion every single day about what to do. That concerned Colin Powell, particularly when it came to the economy, as much as it concerned me. Colin Powell has voted Republican in the past, if anyone's not aware. McCain has said that any guy that doesn't have military experience isn't a real man. He lost my vote the day that he threw that at Obama a few months ago. National Guard, Navy, and Coast Guard were all things that I very seriously considered, but got too preoccupied with the Word of God and other things to ever do anything about them. It wasn't because I was a wus that I didn't enlist. I had too much going on, including getting my education.
Why do you think we only have two choices, Martin?
There are 4 other viable candidates running for President.
Quote from: sparrow on October 21, 2008, 07:39:27 PM
This is nothing more than a modern day lynchmob.
Elections.
Politics.
Today it's Obama tommorow McCain.
For me it's clear. Either Obama doesn't have the required papers or he is playing some game he thinks he will benefit from.
Assume he has the required papers and this affair is harmful for his campain. Wouldn't you think he would hav eresolved the issue within a day?
It wouldn't suprise me if this is just some publicity stunt with the grand finale that he shows his papers live on TV.
White, black or purple.
Leftwing, rightwing or chickenwing.
They are all politicians!!!! :laughing7:
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 21, 2008, 08:02:23 PM
Quote from: sparrow on October 21, 2008, 07:39:27 PM
This is nothing more than a modern day lynchmob.
Elections.
Politics.
Today it's Obama tommorow McCain.
For me it's clear. Either Obama doesn't have the required papers or he is playing some game he thinks he will benefit from.
Assume he has the required papers and this affair is harmful for his campain. Wouldn't you think he would hav eresolved the issue within a day?
It wouldn't suprise me if this is just some publicity stunt with the grand finale that he shows his papers live on TV.
White, black or purple.
Leftwing, rightwing or chickenwing.
They are all politicians!!!! :laughing7:
That's what I can't figure out. Does he think this somehow benefits him or is he hiding something? Either way, it's nasty.
Can you imagine the Constitutional crisis we would be thrown into if we elect someone who is not a natural born citizen? Not to mention people turning against each other.
It's just more confusion and chaos.
God is not the author of confusion.
And this could be easily cleared up in a New York minute.
Quote from: Molly on October 21, 2008, 08:01:02 PM
Why do you think we only have two choices, Martin?
There are 4 other viable candidates running for President.
Ralph Nader, Bob Barr, Charles Baldwin, Cynthia McKinney, Alan Keyes, Charles Jay, Gene Amondson, Ted Weill, Gloria La Riva, Brian Moore, and Róger Calero are also candidates according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_2008) but not all of them will be on the ballots of all 50 states according to that link. The ones that I know about that are likely to be on the ballot for Texas, where I'm at, really aren't worth getting into details about when it comes to the foreign policy, healthcare, economic, and other issues.
If you like any of them, you can check your ballot to see if they are on your ballot or if they have registered with your state to be a write in candidate.
The four who are registered in the most states, either on the ballot or as write-in, are:
Ralph Nader--an Arab/American who rocks
Bob Barr--a white former congressman who rocks
Chuck Baldwin--a white baptist minister who rocks
Cynthia McKinney--a Black former congresswoman who rocks
Notice I included ethnic background....
Don't forget, the President is elected by the electoral college.
So it's a matter of electoral votes, not popular vote.
Anyone of those four could win because they are on enough state ballots to qualify to win the electoral college vote--minimum 270 votes required to win.
Quote from: Mickiel on October 21, 2008, 07:06:55 PM
Whats really hard to put to rest, is the underlying predujice and fears that many whites have about a black man being president. Their inability to cope with this growing dynamic of all men being equal. The oncomming truth that white people are not the only capable people on earth, nor do they lead the earth, nor do they have to. Their inability, ( some of them), to share power.
And this is what being in a position of power so long can do to human nature.
Peace.
All men may be created equal but what they do after they are created often does not make them my equal. I would not consider Hitler my equal.
It is also not a matter of white vs. black (Obama is not really black but a cross of black and white) .
Furthermore this is not about sharing power with whites. I believe if you look closely the whites outnumber the blacks that support Obama especially those in a position of power.
The main point is about whether or not Obama has met the qualifications to even run for president according to the constitution of the United States.
Quote from: martincisneros on October 21, 2008, 07:55:12 PM
McCain's definitely a fraud, whatever Obama is. Obama's definitely the less of two evils.
The Bible says ". . . that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will,
and setteth up over it the basest of men." Dan 4:17
This is marvelous.
I did not bring up Obama not being a citizen because I am for McCain. I'm for neither.
By the way, did you know I will be on the ballot? I was also on the hanging chad ballot when Bush ran against the inventor of the internet (Gore). Every so many years I have to be elected to the board of directors for the local library here. It is just a local election but nonetheless I was on the same ballot as Bush/Gore and now Obama/McCain. Maybe I'm just a basest of men LOL!
My concerns are many, but include increasing socialism issues (neither party innocent, but I believe Obama to be more extreme), abortion issues (neither party innocent, Obama more extreme), increasing illegitimate benefits for illegal aliens (neither innocent, Obama more extreme), to name a few. With all the faults of both parties (and all of us in general), I'm still not sure how Obama is the least of two evils.
I took a poll on issues. I came out 52% McCain, 48% Obama. The results stated "you don't like either candidate, perhaps you'd be better served with an independent". Bingo! But I'm afraid the chances are slim to none right now that an independent could win, especially in the current corrupt environment of politics.
If things continue to deteriorate, perhaps there really will be a revolution of sorts and an independent candidate, truly based upon issues and "what's best" will someday have a chance.
Either way, scripture states there's no authority that isn't placed there by God. IMO, that doesn't necessarily mean the "best" person is in office, but the one that fulfills God's plans. I think of Israel and their demanding a king...God gave them what they wanted. Not because it was "best" in a sense, but it worked in His plan to teach them. It seems to me in this election there truly is a veil over many eyes, causing them to be unable to see the danger, deception, and probable consequences.
God's will will be done...let's pray accordingly.
Just my current opinion and understanding.
God's blessing, James.
Quote from: JabI took a poll on issues. I came out 52% McCain, 48% Obama. The results stated "you don't like either candidate, perhaps you'd be better served with an independent". Bingo! But I'm afraid the chances are slim to none right now that an independent could win, especially in the current corrupt environment of politics.
Hi Jab-- it turns out that most people (something like 68 percent) just don't vote because they don't perceive either of the two main parties offering them a choice. Others say they are voting for [the lessor of two] evil (s). Do we really have to vote for 'evil'? I have read a stat that the winning candidate is elected by about 15 per cent of the population, therefore, and most of those don't even like him.
How pathetic is this? Want to make your vote count? Pick one of the excellent third party candidates and cast your vote for someone you really like. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Tony N on October 21, 2008, 09:07:41 PM
It is also not a matter of white vs. black (Obama is not really black but a cross of black and white) .
Do you want to bet???
and about "not really black". Please, Tony... take off the blinders. If you have ONE DROP of black blood, you are BLACK. If Obama walks into a store, he is a BLACK man, and I guarantee most of the store clerks are going to look at him harder.
Do racists not want Obama to be considered "Black"? because he may become President of the U.S. and they can't deal with the thought of that? ABSOLUTELY.
There is still a LOT of racism in this country, and this election has shined a spotlight on a lot of the HIDDEN racism in this country.
If you don't know enough about being black in this country and what that means, then it's best a person not say anything at all regarding the subject, otherwise they make themselves out to be foolish. Racism is a very DEEP, and VERY COMPLICATED issue. There are many shades of grey.
Obama is a black man. and I hope he becomes our first black president.
I know all of the former slaves in heaven will be cheering.
He is a good man. He has a good family. And I believe he has what it takes to run this country and to help turn things around for the better.
GO OBAMA.
Well, Sparrow, if we're going to go on the one drop principle, then that probably pretty much covers all of us that can't vouch for our last 20 generations being from elsewhere, with other skin tones, etc.
Molly, so called "good men" don't want to run or they get eliminated in the primaries. Doesn't matter which party or Independent situation you're talking about. As a brief example that in my mind includes a few other names, I'd of been perfectly happy voting for Rudy Giuliani. (Anybody other than McCain!!!!!) But he wasn't cut throat enough to get through the primaries. A few months ago, the Presidential candidate for the Democratic party was nearly Hillary Clinton. I was hoping she wouldn't be. I couldn't handle 4 more years of "I did not have sex with that woman!" with that boney finger wagging at the camera with obvious inuendos being conveyed to the camera, intended towards the girl in question and secondarily to those that didn't care one way or the other. I've been voting Republican since 1994 and I'm not sure if I'll ever do that again at this point. I am sooo sorry, please forgive me everyone. I am so sorry!! :bowing: :notworthy: :megashock: :eek: :BangHead: :bdh: :spank: :surrender:
Actually Sparrow, Obama is not black. The other day I saw a woman who was black and I mean absolutely b-l-a-c-k. Obama is not black, he is brown.
I am not white either. I am tan. Obama's mother was white and father black. That makes him neither white nor black. He is a heinz 57. If his mother was oriental but father was white American but he was born in the United States with slant eyes would you say he was chinese? I wouldn't.
I'm not racist in the least and have had close friends who were African-American. I don't care if Obama is president or if McCain is. The point of this thread is not about racism, it is about Obama coming clean with where he was born. Do you understand that? So why go off on a rabbit trail and take us away from the main point of this thread?
Whoever is going to be president is not going to be ideal. The only ideal person who can rule this world is Jesus Christ.
And I'm sorry to burst your bubble but there are no slaves in heaven. As a matter of fact the Bible says that the only one to ascend into heaven is He Who descended, Jesus Christ.
Quote from: Tony N on October 22, 2008, 02:56:27 AM
Actually Sparrow, Obama is not black. The other day I saw a woman who was black and I mean absolutely b-l-a-c-k. Obama is not black, he is brown.
I am not white either. I am tan. Obama's mother was white and father black. That makes him neither white nor black. He is a heinz 57. If his mother was oriental but father was white American but he was born in the United States with slant eyes would you say he was chinese? I wouldn't.
1. It's "Asian", not "Oriental". "Oriental" applies to objects, not people.
2. SLANT eyes? nice.
3.You know very well what I mean by the term "black". don't be cute. not funny.
Quote from: Tony N on October 22, 2008, 02:56:27 AM
I'm not racist in the least and have had close friends who were African-American.
Are you joking? Most people who have some racism views lingering in their soul all say the same thing... "I have an African-American friend." well la-dee-da. Because you have a friend doesn't mean you are somehow not racist.
Plenty of racists have black friends. You may want to check yourself and check your soul because what you have espoused so far is not generally things I would hear from a NON-racist.
Quote from: Tony N on October 22, 2008, 02:56:27 AM
And I'm sorry to burst your bubble but there are no slaves in heaven. As a matter of fact the Bible says that the only one to ascend into heaven is He Who descended, Jesus Christ.
Well that is YOUR belief. not mine.
I'm out of here.
I'm sorry, my friends. This is a VERY deep issue for me. and I have little tolerance for racism in any form. From the subtle to the blatant. It would not be good for me to continue in this conversation at this time. I've been dealing with ignorant racist people since the election got down to the wire and my tolerance is at ZERO.
Peace and Goodbye.
Quote from: sparrow on October 22, 2008, 03:07:21 AM
Most people who have some racism views lingering in their soul all say the same thing... "I have an African-American friend." well la-dee-da. Because you have a friend doesn't mean you are somehow not racist.
I avoid making similar comments because I know that there's always someone ready to pounce as though it were prima facie proof that someone were one because it's such a hot topic. You don't have to be a racist to be aware of racism, to have grown up around it, to be aware of people around you that tread on egg shells because of their location in the country, the local history, etc. And when you're dealing with discussion boards, you're not going to be abundantly acquainted with someone's geographical environment, how they grew up, what they grew up around and saw, and the self consciousness that could work it's way into their consciousness with feeling the need to clarify "I'm not one of them. My friends cover the rainbow of skin tones, beliefs, backgrounds, ages, origins, preferences, etc." Let's just drop this 'cause it's such a charged topic that it's hard not to be misunderstood on both sides of this kind of topic that I'm seeing emerge on this board. Yes, Sparrow, racists DO say that, but not just racists. People that have been around racism that have been abundantly appauled by it also say that, particularly if their conscious or subconscious mind has detected it coming on the radar either around them, in the media, or in some other way.
Quote from: sparrow on October 22, 2008, 03:11:35 AM
I'm out of here.
I'm sorry, my friends. This is a VERY deep issue for me. and I have little tolerance for racism in any form. From the subtle to the blatant. It would not be good for me to continue in this conversation at this time. I've been dealing with ignorant racist people since the election got down to the wire and my tolerance is at ZERO.
Peace and Goodbye.
For me, when I find myself judging, i look inward.
having "no tolerance in any form" is to separate from those who are "racist" and therefore a form of racism.
"ignorant racist people" is a label that separates and therefore a form of racism.
Those who you see as racists, you have a "racist attitude" toward by pulling away and separating a "you" and "them".
just some thoughts
Quote from: laren on October 22, 2008, 03:22:45 AM
For me, when I find myself judging, i look inward.
having "no tolerance in any form" is to separate from those who are "racist" and therefore a form of racism.
"ignorant racist people" is a label that separates and therefore a form of racism.
Those who you see as racists, you have a "racist attitude" toward by pulling away and separating a "you" and "them".
just some thoughts
You're 100% right, Laren, but I also understand Sparrow's pain over this issue, so let's just leave the race card out of this discussion from this point forward on this thread.
Quote from: martincisneros on October 22, 2008, 03:29:26 AM
Quote from: laren on October 22, 2008, 03:22:45 AM
For me, when I find myself judging, i look inward.
having "no tolerance in any form" is to separate from those who are "racist" and therefore a form of racism.
"ignorant racist people" is a label that separates and therefore a form of racism.
Those who you see as racists, you have a "racist attitude" toward by pulling away and separating a "you" and "them".
just some thoughts
You're 100% right, Laren, but I also understand Sparrow's pain over this issue, so let's just leave the race card out of this discussion from this point forward on this thread.
No problem.
I have the same emotions as Sparrow too, and definitely am not judging her. Just thought i'd interject as I have found my judgments usually are projections from my own self that i've been resisting.
I'm voting for Obama, am I going to Hell now?
laren, I am sorry but you are incorrect. I am not "projecting".
and I am not the one who needs to look inward. What you've said is completely backwards in this particular situation. Having ZERO tolerance for racism does not make one "racist" in any way, shape or form.
Ignorant = willfully or unwillfully NOT HAVING KNOWLEDGE about a certain issue.
Racist = The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Some people ABSOLUTELY fit the category "ignorant racist" it's not some insult I'm slinging. It's an actual DESCRIPTION. Ignorant racists.
What you are saying may fit some other scenario, but not this one...sorry.
We should ALL stand up against racism. Whether it personally affects you or not. I'm not going to sugar coat my words because some of you think it's not "christ-like". A lot of what I have read on this thread have been not "christ-like".
There are a TON of people out there who do not consider theirselves to be racists. But they do not understand just HOW RACIST some of their views are, and some of their thoughts are... IT needs to be brought out in the open and examined.
Like I said, racism in this country is a very DEEP issue. Only those who are willing to examine it, and examine THEIRSELVES will EVER make progress. All of the rest of the people will stick their heads in the sand, saying "aw shucks. I'm not a racist..." all the while carrying with them much baggage that has to do with race in this country.
You can have a good heart and still be a racist. It's called ignorance.
Ignorance doesn't mean you're stupid. It just means you are UNAWARE.
I've said what I've come to say.
Thank you.
My friend sparrow asked if I would post to explain that she needs to cool down a bit before returning to this subject since her current 'zero tolerance' mode is so out of character for her.
I can testify that she is generally very good at seeing the viewpoints of others - but with all that's being said in the news and on the street and online (about this) I understand that it can test the patience of someone who is very passionate about these kinds of issues.
Blessings,
- Byron
I understand. I locked this thread merely to prevent escalation in all of the ways you can think of, including people who've not participated in this thread thus far taking sides and throwing this thread further and further away from what it was started on. I was still praying about whether this should be a temporary lock on this topic or a permanent one, and am listening for the Holy Spirit's input on that. If there was ever something that wandered way outside of Gary's firm intentions for the Tentmaker Forum... :mshock:
If there's ever a topic that really doesn't belong on the boards, it's anything political, but I understood the desire for feedback on the opening post with the elections being a little over two weeks away and everybody being knee deep in media propaganda about it, whether they want to be or not and whether they have an opinion or not. I was wanting to get into the coming election for the last couple of weeks, though, but was restraining myself hoping someone else would pull the pin on the granade, so that if the worst happened, it would simply be a matter of cleaning up afterwards without it seeming like I'd squashed a topic just because of folks not agreeing with my perspective or whatever I've been accused of before. I still don't know what I believe about any of it, regarding who should be the next President. I'm just going to be voting my conscience in the matter. I'm not politically ideological about any political subject. I just have certain principles that I try to look at.
The race card is really not a good place to go on these boards at any time, though.
Obama when asked if it bothered him that some would vote for him because he was black said that he was sure that some would vote for him because he was black, just as he was equally sure that some would vote against him because he was black. He was hoping that instances of both of that would be few and that we've gotten past that issue for the most part as a determining factor in elections. He was hoping that those folks that would vote for/against because of his being black would just sorta cancel each other out in their votes and that the election and who got elected would have come down to the issues, like: the economy, the environment, foreign policy, healthcare, relieving the tax burdens of the middle class, ending our war in Iraq but persuing the terrorists into the countries where they're actually at, ending our dependence upon foreign oil in responsible ways that wouldn't further pollute or endanger our environment, regaining our respect with other nations, etc.