Masturbation.

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

I have to say "my personal feelings and don't want to offend people"
That part of Rom. Is talking to a people that was still trying to follow the law and Paul was teaching them "slowly" how to let go of the law even tho that was all they knew and was comfie with.  I personally know that Masturbation could be wrong to me personally. But as for the Father! If it is sin, He dose not see it....
That act can lead all people down roads that are not a good place, but it is not wrong for me. What makes it wrong for me is if I think of someone I should not be thinking of....

[Lefein]

Indeed Thinktank.

We must also remember, that sin is not so much about "oooh you broke a law, now God's gonna get you!"  God did not make laws arbitrarily, sin is sin because it is harmful in some fashion or form.

Death and Sin are interweaved.  Death harms, so does sinful behaviour.

To sin to our heart's content as if we had license to do so, no longer being under condemnation under The Law, as if Jesus died to give us freedom to have what ever orgy we darn well please...well...It might not condemn us to Death, but it'll certainly harm us, and destroy our peace, joy, and happiness on our pilgrimage here.

Jesus didn't die to allow us to be masochistic, he rose again so we would genuinely live.  Self-harm isn't genuinely living, it is...ickiness, for lack of a spiritual word.

God hurts, and grieves when he sees his children hurt.  "Jesus wept." is a very powerful verse for a reason.

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

Sorry, I have to point out a few things I see slanted in your thinks process.
your quotes I hilighted in Green then I will insert my comment.....

Indeed Thinktank.

We must also remember, that sin is not so much about "oooh you broke a law, now God's gonna get you!"  God did not make laws arbitrarily, sin is sin because ( this is if you believe in sin still being active in Humankind)it is harmful ( ? )in some fashion or form.

Death and Sin are (are none exsiting in this new creation that is the Body) interweaved.  Death harms ( I think not, Death has been dealt it's death blow forever), so does sinful behaviour.

To sin to our heart's content as if we had license to do so, no longer being under condemnation under The Law, as if Jesus died to give us freedom to have what ever orgy we darn well please...well...It might not condemn us to Death, but it'll certainly harm us, and destroy our peace, joy, and happiness on our pilgrimage here. (I think not again, because Death is dealt with and its effects)
Also if you obey out of "What". Freedom to do what you want is good because we will do what we want anyway, I choose to do good acts. to please self, and my humankind around me that interract with me...)
Jesus didn't die to allow us to be masochistic, he rose again so we would genuinely live.  Self-harm ( this is also an oppion of following a rule. in my oppion....)isn't genuinely living, it is...ickiness, for lack of a spiritual word.

God hurts, and grieves when he sees his children hurt.  "Jesus wept." is a very powerful verse for a reason.

Hope to not offend....
a new order has began....

[Lefein]

Death hasn't been thrown into The Lake of Fire yet.

People still hurt, people still die, there is still decay in the world, we are not yet glorified.

The Kingdom of God is in us right now, but it has not yet been established in the Re-Creation, its time has not yet come.  God is not yet All in All.

The fullness of the Gentiles hasn't even come in yet.

Sin is indeed still active...just look at Fred Phelps, Bin Ladin, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Myself...etc.

Condemnation, the sentence of Death (Sheol) is no longer active.

Not to offend, but God is not a relativist.

[thinktank]

Sorry, I have to point out a few things I see slanted in your thinks process.
your quotes I hilighted in Green then I will insert my comment.....

Indeed Thinktank.

We must also remember, that sin is not so much about "oooh you broke a law, now God's gonna get you!"  God did not make laws arbitrarily, sin is sin because ( this is if you believe in sin still being active in Humankind)it is harmful ( ? )in some fashion or form.

[Look at the news what more evidence do you need, if sin has been dealt with then it means murder is a normal part of Gods life. What the blood of Christ does is bring us back to God, because before the blood were were strangers to God without hope, but now through the blood we have access to heaven and Gods saving grace, even himself abiding in us through his spirit to overcome sin and temptation.]

Death and Sin are (are none exsiting in this new creation that is the Body) interweaved.  Death harms ( I think not, Death has been dealt it's death blow forever), so does sinful behaviour.

[But what we sow we reap, some sow to dishonour and others to honour God will test each mans work to see what he built his life on, sand or stone.]

To sin to our heart's content as if we had license to do so, no longer being under condemnation under The Law, as if Jesus died to give us freedom to have what ever orgy we darn well please...well...It might not condemn us to Death, but it'll certainly harm us, and destroy our peace, joy, and happiness on our pilgrimage here. (I think not again, because Death is dealt with and its effects)

[I think not  :winkgrin: otherwise we would have immortal human bodies, but they decay because of sin]

Also if you obey out of "What". Freedom to do what you want is good because we will do what we want anyway, I choose to do good acts. to please self, and my humankind around me that interract with me...)

[ Freedom is what God has given us, you can either sow good seed or bad seed, the cross does not eliminate bad seed from existence, it may cancel its effects, but God is not mocked whatsoever a man sows he shall reap, if you are doing good then you will reap good fruit]

Jesus didn't die to allow us to be masochistic, he rose again so we would genuinely live.  Self-harm ( this is also an oppion of following a rule. in my oppion....)isn't genuinely living, it is...ickiness, for lack of a spiritual word.

God hurts, and grieves when he sees his children hurt.  "Jesus wept." is a very powerful verse for a reason.

Hope to not offend....
a new order has began....

I have heard that quote from various presidents, prime ministers etc for many years, I wonder what they mean?

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

Thinktank, I have to go for now but will visit again in a day or two.

In "my world of this new order" Sin dose not exist... Human bodies do rot and die, but that is just human. That is not an end of any human. in the Law people or before Christ did away with the law, those that rotted and died, new nothing, and wont know nothing until the restitution of all things in some other age beyond this age.... When I die, I will be what I am now, apart of all things.... and know all things.

[Nathan]

There was a statement made somewhere in this conversation stating that Jesus died so we could sin . . .or he died so as we sin, it's all covered.  I feel red flags popping up when I see the tone of the conversation go in this direction because it feels like we're saying that I can live like hell because in the end we're all going to heaven anyway.  It feels like we're abusing the purity of the cross. 

Should I live according to my fleshly desires, that alone is evidence that I walk in darkness.  When we come into the light, yes, I beleive that God no longer sees our sin, yet at the same time, if his light is in us, we should be seeing signs of that by not walking in those dark places anymore as well.  Our focus shouldn't be on what we can get away with now, instead, shouldn't it be on our love for the Father for not holding the weaknesses of our fleshly past against us?

It really shouldn't be about doing what I please and how dare you for trying to tell me to stop . . . That's still showing my mind is in control over my heart.  If I walk in the spirit, I will choose to walk in His Light rather than in the darkness of my flesh, right?  There should be some sort of manifestation of that light illuminating through us into the darkness of the world around us.

[Lefein]

Christianity is alot like a marriage.

If your wife/husband told you that he/she'd never leave you, divorce you, or stop loving you no matter what you did...would you go out with a license to cheat on him/her every day?  That wouldn't be loving your wife/husband who loves you...that'd be hate, of the worst sort.  Because you'd be murdering his/her heart on purpose, knowing that you'll get away with it (or thinking you will, in reality).

[Nathan]

Hey, that's not bad!! 

It again reveals the true motivation behind people who call themselves Christians.  The moment you mention no eternal hell, "that's" the first thing that comes out of their mouth . . ."If there's no hell then I can do anything I want . . ." Which only begs the question "Is THAT the only reason why you chose to be a follwer of Christ?"

Yeah, I like that.  Marriage is not a license for either party to sleep around on each other and expect the marriage to be strong.  It's not about trying to get away with doing as much filth as I can.  It's about living in love with the Father.  The removal of hell is like a wedding gift.  Fear is truly gone.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That is true. I've always thought that was one of the reasons "they" react the way they do to the no hell idea; it reveals the motive of their heart for serving Him at all, and so once uncovered, out come the fig leaves again. My  :2c: Blessings....

[Lefein]

It would explain why they get so angry anyway, or defensive.  It is a rather puncturing statement.

[thinktank]

I think tis only human though to be angry, when one find out that their belief that they have followed for decades is not even true. This is true for most poeple on all beliefs, but especailly a belief such as ET, they would feel such a fool, when they realize their doom and gloom ET sermons are not even true. :2c:

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

the live like hell issue was started by me ( A new Order HAS begun .

My whole issue was the sin issue.... With out a rule/Law/Commandment to follow there is no braking of that.... i.e. Trangression of Law= SIN....

If you live by the New Law of Christ which IS His life, you are not and Can Never be a follower of any of the 640 Laws in our KJV of the bible or the Millions of ones set up by Christians with good intent....      Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo   We Are NOT Sinners...... Law Brakers.........

[Lefein]

"The Law is a mirror, Grace makes us look pretty."

The Law still exists, and so does sin, we are however no longer condemned by it unto Death.  We can look in the mirror and see Christ's righteousness, rather than our own ugliness.

Without him however, our righteousness is as filthy rags, and will always be so.