EBRLuke 2
41 And his parents used to journey yearly into Jerusalem, at the feast of the passover.
42 And, when he became twelve years, and they went up, according to the custom of the feast,
43 and completed the days, and then were returning, the boy Jesus remained behind in Jerusalem,––and his parents noticed it not;
44 but, supposing him to be in the company, went a day's journey, and then began to seek for him among their kinsfolk and acquaintances,
45 and, not finding him, returned unto Jerusalem, seeking him.
46 And it came to pass, that, after three days, they found him in the temple, sitting amidst the teachers,––both hearkening unto them, and questioning them.
47 Now all who heard him were beside themselves, because of his understanding and his answers.
48 And, when they behold him, they were astounded, and his mother said unto him––Child! why, hast thou dealt with us, thus? Lo! thy father and I, in anguish, were seeking thee.
49 And he said unto them––Why was it that ye were seeking me? Perceived ye not, that, in the courts of my Father, I must needs be?
50 And, they, understood not the thing which he spake to them.
Why did He need tostay behind that year? Why no on previous and/or following years?
He and His family made the required visit. Why should He stay behind another 3 days? Why should He stay behind without telling His parents?
That is a wonder over looked, I believe.
"After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight." Hosea 62, AV
It doesn't show much respect towards your parents (part of ten commandments) to do such a thing. Children do dumb things. But that can't be an excuse for Jesus because He had a good set of brains discussing with scholars in the Temple.
Passover is in March/April. He was born in September. The only thing I can think of is that He turned 13 in that year. An important age in Jewish life.
But His parents, being Jews themselfs, surely wouldn't forget such an important event.
Jesus basicly said His parents were stupid not understanding why He had to stay behind.
I'm stupid too....
Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends.
Luk 2:45 When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him.
youll always FIND your true IDENTITY in Jerusalem - its when you LEAVE jerusalem your problems begin- consider the PARABLE of Good samaritan theres was a certain MAN who LEFT jerusalem FOR JERICCO = MANKIND who was wounded- our SOUL is wounded BY leaving JERUSALEM--- another Type\shadow of what happened in the GARDEN-
Ever wondered why MARY means REBELLION- she a symbol of the CARNAL mind -yes your EVE-
WHERE else would you EXPECT one whos come of AGE to be TEACHING-- IN YOUR TEMPLE right--addin Reformers reply-
Luk 2:46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions.
Luk 2:47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.
Luk 2:48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you." o-dü-nä'-ō = sorrow and torment-intense pain---- much tribulation\travail come the birthing of the SON-
Luk 2:49 "Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?"
But they did not understand what he was saying to them.
BUT why TWELVE and NOT 13--- another mystery--- Jesus is Female , female BAT miz comes at the AGE of 12 not 13---
as our EVE is WOMAN= soul - Jesus is the FEMALE=soul of the Father---
heres a little excerpt from Cardinal- :cloud9:
And Jesus (outer court/female) was the Word (inner court/male) made (one) flesh (Most Holy place). They are neither male nor female in heaven, not because they are neither one or the other, but because they are BOTH. The male (Spirit) has possessed His female (virgin soul). All flesh, therefore, is "female" to God initially (and therefore in the outer court realm, the court of the "women"), because His Spirit is the one that plants the Seed, ie. IS the Seed. The natural realm bears this witness, as always, as babies are all female until a certain point in their development within the womb. :icon_flower:
Quote from: Taffy on April 28, 2011, 01:29:44 PM
BUT why TWELVE and NOT 13--- another mystery--- Jesus is Female , female BAT miz comes at the AGE of 12 not 13---
So you are saying His parents overlooked the fact that their son was a daughter.... :wink1:
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 28, 2011, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: Taffy on April 28, 2011, 01:29:44 PM
BUT why TWELVE and NOT 13--- another mystery--- Jesus is Female , female BAT miz comes at the AGE of 12 not 13---
So you are saying His parents overlooked the fact that their son was a daughter.... :wink1:
:winkgrin:
JOSEPH – Jehovah has Added
MARY- Their Rebellion
JESUS – Jehovah is Salvation
3added together = "Joseph Mary and Jesus" = "God has added to their rebellion" Salvation." :thumbsup:
Questions are the key that opens the doors of Revelation truths to the hearts of men!! "Who do you say that I am?" A question is saying the mind is at it's end of understanding . . .that's why revelation enters at a question. A door is opened and a being is intently focused on what transpires next . . .without the influence of the mind because again, the question is evidence the mind has reached it's boundaries of understanding.
Unfortunately, questions area also used as weapons to disarm another who has taken an adversarial position on a topic. Pharisees tried that method on Jesus all the time . . .ask him questions to try to trap him. But conventional knowledge is no match for spiritual truth. I believe God inspires us to ask questions to open doors in us so that he can shine truth into our rooms, our houses, our temples that he's building as we breathe.
I think ReFormer is on to something with his comments and quotes . . . I love that Hosea passage . . . Jesus quoted it, but I didn't realize until seeing the Hosea passage that he was fulfilling yet another prophecy as well as extending it by proclaiming it yet again. "Tear down this temple and in three days I will raise it up. . . " That was spoken by him two days ago . . we are now at the dawn of the third day where he is "raising up" his temple within us. Questions lead to openness, openness leads to reception, reception leads to conception, which leads to reproduction. Reproduction can only come through intimate relationship. Relationship leads to revelation. Revelation leads to reformation . . .Reformation leads to Revolution!!
Jesus was 12 . . .12 is when a child makes passage from childhood to manhood. Jews especially celebrate a boy's 13th birthday. 12 is the number for God's government . . . God's govenrment is based on two laws . . .LOVE God, and LOVE your neighbor as you LOVE yourself. God's government is love . . .12 represents God's love. The story of Jesus was not about a child honoring his natural parents . . .all though I'm sure he did, but this was not a time of just documenting how many kids you had, Jesus was in the temple because that was the tradition for Jewish boys who reached the age to become students in the priesthood. The fact that Jesus didn't remain in the temple is evidence to the fact that the temple priests did not accept him to be one of their students. A spiritual picture of how religion can never recognize the substance of life, it can only embrace the shadow that the substance casts.
The three days is not happenstance, not coincidence . . .everything done is done with purpose, on purpose. That's why patterns are so important to pay attention to . . nothing is by coincidence. Everything has significance. Resurrection . . .it's always about resurrection. The number 3 isn't just about divine unity, but it's also about resurrection . . .in fact, divine unity brings forth resurrection! Resurrection life was coming into maturity and the religious church was speechless. It was/is-never in the form of what all the brainiacks expected to see. Conventional wisdom could not identify with what was going on. Resurrection can not be dissected or defined by the religious mind, it can only be experienced by those open to receive it IN FAITH.
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 28, 2011, 06:55:48 AM
EBRLuke 2
41 And his parents used to journey yearly into Jerusalem, at the feast of the passover.
42 And, when he became twelve years, and they went up, according to the custom of the feast,
43 and completed the days, and then were returning, the boy Jesus remained behind in Jerusalem,––and his parents noticed it not;
44 but, supposing him to be in the company, went a day's journey, and then began to seek for him among their kinsfolk and acquaintances,
45 and, not finding him, returned unto Jerusalem, seeking him.
46 And it came to pass, that, after three days, they found him in the temple, sitting amidst the teachers,––both hearkening unto them, and questioning them.
47 Now all who heard him were beside themselves, because of his understanding and his answers.
48 And, when they behold him, they were astounded, and his mother said unto him––Child! why, hast thou dealt with us, thus? Lo! thy father and I, in anguish, were seeking thee.
49 And he said unto them––Why was it that ye were seeking me? Perceived ye not, that, in the courts of my Father, I must needs be?
50 And, they, understood not the thing which he spake to them.
Why did He need tostay behind that year? Why no on previous and/or following years?
He and His family made the required visit. Why should He stay behind another 3 days? Why should He stay behind without telling His parents?
I think he was so interested in learning he forgot about his mum and dad. An opportunity to ask questions to the teachers, that he could not resist.
Are we reading the same passage???
47 Now all who heard him were beside themselves, because of his understanding and his answers.
48 And, when they behold him, they were astounded . . .
He wasn't there to learn, but to teach . . .to give notice . . .to proclaim the favorable year of the Lord had arrived.
I was under the impression that he was there to learn. Maybe I was wrong, but the scripture does say that the chilld waxed strong and also says the Jesus thou he were a Son, learned long suffering.
46 And it came to pass, that, after three days, they found him in the temple, sitting amidst the teachers,––both hearkening unto them, and questioning them.
I thought that it was John the baptist that proclaimed the acceptable year of the Lord, unless it was done more than once.
:2c:
Luke 4
17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Nope, not John the Baptist . . .Jesus.
I don't think it'd fit the pattern for Jesus to go to those who embrace the law to learn from them. He wasn't coming to learn their laws, he was coming to fulfill it. He wasn't coming to submit himself to their ways or teachings . . . understanding the purpose for questions, Jesus wasn't asking them questions so that he could learn of them, he already knew who he was, I believe his questions to them was to have them see their own misinterpretations . . . he asked them questions to open the door to give them truths in his explanations . . . he often asked questions to those hearing his teachings.
But Jesus was much older than 12 when he preached the acceptable day of the lord. John the baptist prepared the way for the mighty one of Israel to begin his ministry.
Also notice that Jesus gave it again, the book to the minister and SAT DOWN, now that tells us something, that Jesus was willing to sit and listen. So I don't think Jesus was totally against the teachers, even when he was older and began his ministry.
Quote from: Nathan on April 29, 2011, 01:40:36 AM
Are we reading the same passage???
47 Now all who heard him were beside themselves, because of his understanding and his answers.
48 And, when they behold him, they were astounded . . .
He wasn't there to learn, but to teach . . .to give notice . . .to proclaim the favorable year of the Lord had arrived.
Will arrive perhaps. It was not a Sabbath/Jubilee year.
Quote from: thinktank on April 29, 2011, 02:28:20 AM
I thought that it was John the baptist that proclaimed the acceptable year of the Lord, unless it was done more than once.
:2c:
It was done often. Bassicly the whole Torah was read in three years the trinanial (sp?) cycle. So the verse was read quite often.
There was one day in a year that the people were allowed to read a verse aloud from the Torah. As expected Jesus got the key verse that summarizes His mission on earth.
Debts were cancelled on Sabbath years. And slaves set free on Jubilee years.
Jesus added a little twist by inserting a pause when reading that verse aloud.
Imo He said He came to release all slaves. Read free mankind from slavemaster sin/death.
Quote from: thinktank on April 29, 2011, 04:10:59 AM
But Jesus was much older than 12 when he preached the acceptable day of the lord. John the baptist prepared the way for the mighty one of Israel to begin his ministry.
That's correct TT. Jesus was 30 year and 22 days; John was 6 months older.
QuoteAlso notice that Jesus gave it again, the book to the minister and SAT DOWN, now that tells us something, that Jesus was willing to sit and listen.
He was quoting a verse.
Read the verse as a whole.
Then read only the part before He sat down.
Do you see a difference in the meaning of the verse?
Jesus didn't sit down as a way to repect His teachers. His pauze was a big statement.
It was certainly not showing respect because everybody was supposed to read a whole verse.
Jesus was quoting:
YLTIsa 61
1 The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on me, Because Jehovah did anoint me To proclaim tidings to the humble, He sent me to bind the broken of heart, To proclaim to captives liberty, And to bound ones an opening of bands.
2 To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Jehovah, And the day of vengeance of our God, To comfort all mourners.
But He did not quote the blue part. That's why everybody looked at Him. They expected Him to finish the verse by speaking the blue words.
Instead of the blue words He said "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears"
I read 2 things in that.
a] With the pauze He no longer is just reading the verse but claiming He was sent and He was the one from the verse.
b] The blue bit is no longer valid.
(Personally I think this was the exact moment His ministry began. Not at baptism or return from the 40 days in the wilderness)
Quote from: thinktank on April 29, 2011, 04:10:59 AM
But Jesus was much older than 12 when he preached the acceptable day of the lord. John the baptist prepared the way for the mighty one of Israel to begin his ministry.
Also notice that Jesus gave it again, the book to the minister and SAT DOWN, now that tells us something, that Jesus was willing to sit and listen. So I don't think Jesus was totally against the teachers, even when he was older and began his ministry.
:2c:
have you ever done a comparative word study TT- ,and not just in definitions?----- you may start to see a Pattern-- :dontknow:
:2c: when one SITS down they are at "REST" hence we SIT with Him ]in the Heavenlies-= RESTING in HIM [ STILL soul-let your MIND be STILL] = Teachable-and you shall receive HIS WORDS---Christ is the SABBATH our
DAY of REST-
Deu 33:3 Yea,
he loved the people; all
his saints [are] in thy hand: and they
sat down at thy feet; [every one]
shall receive of thy words. Mat 26:20 Now when the even was come, he
sat down with the twelve.
Mar 6:40 And they
sat down in ranks, by hundreds, and by fifties.
Jhn 8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he
sat down, and taught them. ALL Life is GRASS= Green-- DID Christ ONLY have an audience of just men--? - is this really speaking about hungry
MEN with NO food----which is NOT to say this didnt happen - but for mine CHRIST didnt do or saying anything lest there be a greater SPIRITUAL meaning---
Jhn 6:10 And Jesus said,
Make the
men sit down. Now ther
e was much grass in the place. So the
men sat down, in number about five thousand. And Jesus
took the loaves; and when he had given thanks, he
distributed to the disciples, and the disciples to them that were set down; and likewise of the fishes as much as they would.Blessings :icon_flower:
Quote from: thinktank on April 29, 2011, 04:10:59 AM
But Jesus was much older than 12 when he preached the acceptable day of the lord. John the baptist prepared the way for the mighty one of Israel to begin his ministry.
Also notice that Jesus gave it again, the book to the minister and SAT DOWN, now that tells us something, that Jesus was willing to sit and listen. So I don't think Jesus was totally against the teachers, even when he was older and began his ministry.
You're still not getting what I'm trying to say . . . it's not about what he preached. It wasn't that he came to preach about the acceptable year of the Lord . . .he "was" the acceptable year . . . Jubilee was the shadow . . .Jesus was the substance from which the shadow was cast. So it didn't matter whether he was 12 or 30 an 22 days . . . what poured out of him was the principles that were his DNA. I believe that's why the priests were so astounded at his remarks to them . . .his message was of restoration and liberty . . .Jubilee . . .acceptable year of the Lord . . .whereas there's was jots and tittles of what the laws were requiring of them.
:2c: John the Baptist is another SYMBOL of the LAW- the Tutor to the reality--
For this is [he], of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he
:icon_flower:
Jesus is born of a woman too...
:dontknow:
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 29, 2011, 04:32:07 PM
Jesus is born of a woman too...
:dontknow:
Amen- Mary a symbol of THEIR Rebellion = those under LAW- as Jesus too was BORN a CHILD under LAW- to BE raised upon a POLE -[ CHRIST] slain for all by which MEN now can enter the KINGDOM - John while in the WOMB of elizabeth JUMPED for""""JOY" [another Metaphor for Christ]
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:
The nature of the Holy Spirit is to never elevate it's self above others . . . Jesus wasn't here to proclaim himself above us. It's easy for him to elevate John above himself because that's how love works. In the context of that particular passage, John, in all of his boldness, was showing signs of weakness as he sent his own disciples to Jesus to find out if he really was who he said he was. Another anomoly, John was Jesus' cousin. He had already proclaimed Jesus to be the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. And now he's questioning the validity of his own message?
Jesus wasn't at all offended by John's apparent lack of confidence. Instead, he became the nurturer of John by making such a great proclamation about John's status in the kingdom. A lot more going on there than meets the eye . . . but then again . . .what else is new?
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 29, 2011, 11:03:00 AM
Jesus was quoting:
YLTIsa 61
1 The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on me, Because Jehovah did anoint me To proclaim tidings to the humble, He sent me to bind the broken of heart, To proclaim to captives liberty, And to bound ones an opening of bands.
2 To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Jehovah, And the day of vengeance of our God, To comfort all mourners.
But He did not quote the blue part. That's why everybody looked at Him. They expected Him to finish the verse by speaking the blue words.
Instead of the blue words He said "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears"
I read 2 things in that.
a] With the pauze He no longer is just reading the verse but claiming He was sent and He was the one from the verse.
b] The blue bit is no longer valid.
(Personally I think this was the exact moment His ministry began. Not at baptism or return from the 40 days in the wilderness)
Or perhaps , Jesus did not finish the verse, because the day of vengenace was not yet at hand.
:2c:
Quote from: thinktank on April 29, 2011, 08:08:25 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 29, 2011, 11:03:00 AM
Jesus was quoting:
YLTIsa 61
1 The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on me, Because Jehovah did anoint me To proclaim tidings to the humble, He sent me to bind the broken of heart, To proclaim to captives liberty, And to bound ones an opening of bands.
2 To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Jehovah, And the day of vengeance of our God, To comfort all mourners.
But He did not quote the blue part. That's why everybody looked at Him. They expected Him to finish the verse by speaking the blue words.
Instead of the blue words He said "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears"
I read 2 things in that.
a] With the pauze He no longer is just reading the verse but claiming He was sent and He was the one from the verse.
b] The blue bit is no longer valid.
(Personally I think this was the exact moment His ministry began. Not at baptism or return from the 40 days in the wilderness)
Or perhaps Molly, Jesus did not finish the verse, because the day of vengenace was not yet at hand.
:2c:
:icon_flower: Maybe The lord sees venegeance a Little different to the carnal minded--- His vegeance is upon DEATH which is the TRUE enemy- Heence why the Law enraged HIS wrath-- as for those who preached the Ministry of DEATH were indeed In DEATH themselves being BLIND to HIM
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 29, 2011, 07:45:58 AM
Quote from: thinktank on April 29, 2011, 04:10:59 AM
But Jesus was much older than 12 when he preached the acceptable day of the lord. John the baptist prepared the way for the mighty one of Israel to begin his ministry.
That's correct TT. Jesus was 30 year and 22 days; John was 6 months older.
QuoteAlso notice that Jesus gave it again, the book to the minister and SAT DOWN, now that tells us something, that Jesus was willing to sit and listen.
He was quoting a verse.
Read the verse as a whole.
Then read only the part before He sat down.
Do you see a difference in the meaning of the verse?
Jesus didn't sit down as a way to repect His teachers. His pauze was a big statement.
It was certainly not showing respect because everybody was supposed to read a whole verse.
I wasn't on about the pause as such. I meant that Jesus actually attended the congregation and he only read one verse and then sat down, he gave the book back to the teacher. So if Jesus was against these teachers,
1. Why is he attending
2. Why is he sitting down and listening to the rest of the sermon
3. He gives the book to the teacher
Compare this, to the moment when Jesus, went angry at the money changers or accused some of the scribes, pharisses as being vile serpents.
QuoteI wasn't on about the pause as such. I meant that Jesus actually attended the congregation and he only read one verse
I was a custom that on that festival day many people read a few verses aloud.
Quoteand then sat down, he gave the book back to the teacher. So if Jesus was against these teachers,
1. Why is he attending
Can you even imagine Jesus never being in a Synagoge?
Quote2. Why is he sitting down and listening to the rest of the sermon
I think there was no sermon on that day.
Quote3. He gives the book to the teacher
What else should He do? Steal the scroll? BTW the scoll wasn't handed by the teacher but a Temple attendant. The teacher was the one with the withered hand He healed. His first act of rebelion. Curing a High Priest on a Sabbath day. The priests saw curing as work. Jesus didn't.
QuoteCompare this, to the moment when Jesus, went angry at the money changers or accused some of the scribes, pharisses as being vile serpents.
The money changers were doing illegal things. He accused Scribes because He disagreed with things they did/thaught.
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 29, 2011, 08:44:42 PM
QuoteI wasn't on about the pause as such. I meant that Jesus actually attended the congregation and he only read one verse
I was a custom that on that festival day many people read a few verses aloud.
So Jesus is not totally against customs
Quoteand then sat down, he gave the book back to the teacher. So if Jesus was against these teachers,
1. Why is he attending
Can you even imagine Jesus never being in a Synagoge?
He got kicked out of one when the blind man.
Quote2. Why is he sitting down and listening to the rest of the sermon
I think there was no sermon on that day.
Quote3. He gives the book to the teacher
What else should He do? Steal the scroll? BTW the scoll wasn't handed by the teacher but a Temple attendant. The teacher was the one with the withered hand He healed. His first act of rebelion. Curing a High Priest on a Sabbath day. The priests saw curing as work. Jesus didn't.
But the man with the withered hand allowed Jesus to work. He could have opted not to participate with Jesus when being healed.
QuoteCompare this, to the moment when Jesus, went angry at the money changers or accused some of the scribes, pharisses as being vile serpents.
The money changers were doing illegal things. He accused Scribes because He disagreed with things they did/thaught.
TT
But he didn't sit and listen to these vipers. He asked them questions, whenever these accusers would arise to challenge him.
Quote from: WWCan you even imagine Jesus never being in a Synagoge?
SORRY Tony-- but i havent laughed so much for ages--- :goodone: :Urock:
Quote from: thinktank on April 29, 2011, 08:08:25 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 29, 2011, 11:03:00 AM
Jesus was quoting:
YLTIsa 61
1 The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on me, Because Jehovah did anoint me To proclaim tidings to the humble, He sent me to bind the broken of heart, To proclaim to captives liberty, And to bound ones an opening of bands.
2 To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Jehovah, And the day of vengeance of our God, To comfort all mourners.
But He did not quote the blue part. That's why everybody looked at Him. They expected Him to finish the verse by speaking the blue words.
Instead of the blue words He said "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears"
I read 2 things in that.
a] With the pauze He no longer is just reading the verse but claiming He was sent and He was the one from the verse.
b] The blue bit is no longer valid.
(Personally I think this was the exact moment His ministry began. Not at baptism or return from the 40 days in the wilderness)
Or perhaps , Jesus did not finish the verse, because the day of vengenace was not yet at hand.
:2c:
:2c: :thumbsup: