Lowered?

[eaglesway]

   there are only two wills...the will of the adversary[evil] and the will of God[good]   the will of one  enters and leads us into perdition.[murderer]

..and the will of the other enters us and brings us forth from it[to tol/eternal life] Man's will,as we know it, comes from these two sources/spirits.

   God says we can not serve two masters...the wages of one is death..the free gift of the other is eternal life

Im not sure where you get some of your information but to say,"there are only two wills," and giving the adversary credit for one, is what I consider to be blasphemy! There is only ONE WILL and that is The Fathers Will.

At some point believers have to be able to discuss things that challenge our parameters of safety without fear and vehemence. i have not considered anything I have read here to be incendiary.

The servant of the Lord must not strive, but be gentle towards all men, etc, etc, speaking the truth in love etc etc  :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

That being said I think there are at least three wills, the will of God(for freedom Christ has set you free), The will of man(choose THIS DAY whom you will serve) , and the will of the adversary. I like James chapter three for expressing the ongoing struggle between these three wills.

1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.
3 When we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we can turn the whole animal. 4 Or take ships as an example. Although they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot wants to go. 5 Likewise, the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. 6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one's life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

7 All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and sea creatures are being tamed and have been tamed by mankind, 8 but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.

9 With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God's likeness. 10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing(will of man). My brothers and sisters, this should not be. 11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12 My brothers and sisters, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.

13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom(will of man). 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic(will of the adversary). 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven(will of God) is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.

[sheila]

 well,I certainly have no problem with shining light on something dark..from the book of Enoch.

   Jude 4  Enoch prophesied about these men.    If you do not think Enoch's prophesy is pertinent to the revealing of the man of sin...though these scriptures declare it

   in our day...and Paul also spoke of this revealing.2 Peter 1;21 ...These very men that Jesus Christ is prophesied to do away with,with the breath of His coming

  v19   ...and we have the word of the prophets made more certain,and you will do well to pay attention to it,as a light,shining in a dark place,until

  the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts

[eaglesway]

I have no problem with shining light on something dark from Enoch either. I just don't think the fact that Jude quotes Enoch is PROOF TEXT that the book of Enoch we have is as thoroughly and accurately preserved as the cannon of the 66 books of the bible(which are not as thoroughly preserved themselves as we might like). Even if taken as equal to those scriptures, which I have no objection to for those who do- it is only equal and any quotes from it are still subject to balance from the entire context of whatever you receive as holy writngs. For me the 66 are first. Clement, Barnabas second, Enoch third.... but thats just me.... my simple estimation. I would not overturn a volume of verses in the bible that indicate to me that there are two "alls" (all die in Adam, all live in Christ, the second-not third- Adam) because of an obscure quote from Enoch- altho I do look harder at what I hold to be tru lest I should be guilty of quick judgment. As yet, I just don't see it.

[sheila]

   is it not God..who wills and caused us to do His pleasure? Brother, Jesus said,not mine,but thy will be done...declaring a desire of his own...

   BUT LOOK!  the prince of this world comes...AND HE HAS NOTHING IN ME...and Jesus, knowing what was 'in man' Matthew 9 ...

    why? do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts

[sheila]

 I appreciate the liberty you allow me,in Christ,and neither do I judge any in Christ :HeartThrob:

   and well said..your speaking of us being able to speak out of our normal comfort zone.

   For many prophets died..when those who were unable to  bear/hear in Israel,yelled 'BLASPHEMY!"

[eaglesway]

His desire, will, was to do the Father's will, Lo, it is written in the volume of the book of me- I come to do Thy will O God(Abel, acceptable sacrifices)- the Pharisees desire was to do their fathers will, adversaries(Cain, am I my brothers keeper?)- Choose ye this day whom ye shall serve! Today if you hear His voice, Harden not your hearts! :o)

[sheila]

  man's mind...a mix..sometimes good,sometimes evil....Christ's mind..always obediant to Father's will..

    the revealing of the man of sin...is all about the 'why' of it.

[micah7:9]

   there are only two wills...the will of the adversary[evil] and the will of God[good]   the will of one  enters and leads us into perdition.[murderer]

..and the will of the other enters us and brings us forth from it[to tol/eternal life] Man's will,as we know it, comes from these two sources/spirits.

   God says we can not serve two masters...the wages of one is death..the free gift of the other is eternal life

Im not sure where you get some of your information but to say,"there are only two wills," and giving the adversary credit for one, is what I consider to be blasphemy! There is only ONE WILL and that is The Fathers Will.

There is only ONE WILL that is worth following, not one prayer is answered if it is not His Will, not one raindrop falls but for His Will, not one person is born or not one person dies without His Will.

Heb 6:3  and this we will do, if God may permit,
Heb 13:21  make you perfect in every good work to do His will, doing in you that which is well-pleasing before Him, through Jesus Christ, to whom is the glory--to the ages of the ages! Amen.
1Pe 4:2  no more in the desires of men, but in the will of God, to live the rest of the time in the flesh;
1Jn 5:14  And this is the boldness that we have toward Him, that if anything we may ask according to his will, He doth hear us,

[Beloved Servant]

There is only ONE WILL that is worth following, not one prayer is answered if it is not His Will, not one raindrop falls but for His Will, not one person is born or not one person dies without His Will.

Micah's on fire for the Lord.

[sheila]

  and that is fine,as long as he doesn't burn up the wheat with weeds :mshock:

[micah7:9]

  and that is fine,as long as he doesn't burn up the wheat with weeds :mshock:

NOT TO WORRY :happygrin: :happy3:

[eaglesway]

Yea, I'm not completely separated yet! The harvest is not in! I'm not sure what will burn and what will be gathered!


Whew! Sure am glad its not up to me ;o)

[micah7:9]

Psa 104:25  So is this great and wide sea, wherein are things creeping innumerable, both small and great beasts.
Psa 104:26  There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.
Psa 104:27  These wait all upon thee; that thou mayest give them their meat in due season.
Psa 104:28  That thou givest them they gather: thou openest thine hand, they are filled with good.
Psa 104:29  Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Psa 104:30  Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

So yes, as you say, "spirit does not die", but God has not given us a spiritual body simply because "He sends forth His spirit and they are created". Bugs and beasts are not eternal spirits simply because they have God's spirit sustaining that life. What they are is dust with God sustaining their physical life by His spirit just as he sustains the stars and planets by His spirit. So when God "takes away their breath [ruach, spirit, they no longer have their spirit and] they die, and return to their dust.

So you are not spirit but dust. That is what God Himself tells us. "Dust thou art".

"You take away their breath [ruach ,spirit] they die and return to dust", not 'they live and return to spirit'.

[micah7:9]

For what reason did Jesus give out this information, if mankind/adam was already spirit?

Joh 3:3  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4  Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!
Joh 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born anew.

[sheila]

   Adam is a spiritual being in flesh...who was murdered..when led to partake of death. Through this design the adversary entered man and brought forth wickedness

   Christ come to re light the smoldering wick of spirit in man...that he may spiritually live before God.   MAN with the indwelling spirit of God is

   the WORD OF GOD COME IN FLESH...you can test spirits on this very thing.  The dormant seed in the body of man is of God...the VERY BREATH

  OF GOD HIMSELF IS IN MAN.....and JESUS CHRIST IS COMING!!AND WILL DO AWAY WITH THE LAWLESS ONE BY HIS VERY BREATH!!!

   GOD HIMSELF WILL DESTROY THOSE WHO DESTROY HIS TEMPLE.

    We have received our little 'help' from the Lord..the token of our inheritance...a relit candle,and a little oil in our vessels..to see us through

[WhiteWings]

Micah, I think this is about birth in two stages.
First man is born from the mothers womb (water)
The man sorta breaks out of the womb.
Inside that man is a spirit. Mostly sleeping I would say.
But for some people that spirit wakes up. For examply by reading your posts  :winkgrin:
Then that spirit breaks out of the body.
That's the second birth.

Just like you were really Micah before you were born, you didn't manifest yourself until you were actually born.
I think :dontknow:

[WhiteWings]

    We have received our little 'help' from the Lord..the token of our inheritance...a relit candle,and a little oil in our vessels..to see us through

Help? Help often backfires  :laughing7:

^ACVGenesis 2
20 And the man gave names to all cattle, and to the birds of the heavens, and to every beast of the field, but for man there was not found a help meet for him.

[sheila]

  :bigGrin:

    the help meet of the Holy spirit is like this..in Proverbs 31;10-31   her husband has full confidence in her and lacks nothing of value

    she considers a feild and buys it[Kingdom of heaven like a pearl hid in a feild]

   she selects wool and flax[clothes with Lamb and linen/righteousness]

  plants a vineyard...her lamp doesn't go out[like foolish virgin] opens her arms to the poor

  she speaks with wisdom and faithful instruction,watches over her household and is diligent

  a woman who fears the Lord..is to be praised...give her the reward she has earned..let her works give her praise

[micah7:9]

Micah, I think this is about birth in two stages.
First man is born from the mothers womb (water)
The man sorta breaks out of the womb.
Inside that man is a spirit. Mostly sleeping I would say.
But for some people that spirit wakes up. For examply by reading your posts  :winkgrin:
Then that spirit breaks out of the body.
That's the second birth.

Just like you were really Micah before you were born, you didn't manifest yourself until you were actually born.
I think :dontknow:

Two stages yes.  Joh 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born anew.

[Molly]

  :bigGrin:

    the help meet of the Holy spirit is like this..in Proverbs 31;10-31   her husband has full confidence in her and lacks nothing of value

    she considers a feild and buys it[Kingdom of heaven like a pearl hid in a feild]

   she selects wool and flax[clothes with Lamb and linen/righteousness]

  plants a vineyard...her lamp doesn't go out[like foolish virgin] opens her arms to the poor

  she speaks with wisdom and faithful instruction,watches over her household and is diligent

  a woman who fears the Lord..is to be praised...give her the reward she has earned..let her works give her praise

Amen.

Thank you, Sheila. 

Adam is a spiritual being in flesh...who was murdered..when led to partake of death. Through this design the adversary entered man and brought forth wickedness

   Christ come to re light the smoldering wick of spirit in man...that he may spiritually live before God.   MAN with the indwelling spirit of God is

   the WORD OF GOD COME IN FLESH...you can test spirits on this very thing.  The dormant seed in the body of man is of God...the VERY BREATH

  OF GOD HIMSELF IS IN MAN.....

:HeartThrob:

Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. [Rev 12:10]

[sheila]

 can a man give birth? then why do I see every man with his hands on his stomach,like a woman in labour? every face turned deathly pale.

  How awful that day will be.None will be like it..It will be a time of trouble for Jacob,BUT HE WILL BE SAVED OUT OF IT

   Jeremiah 30;6  Restoration of Israel

[sheila]

   very well said,WW :HeartThrob:

[redhotmagma]

Hebrews 11:3  By faith we understand that the worlds have been framed by the word of God, so that what is seen hath not been made out of things which appear.

Micah, is it possible that you are over-reaching the extent of the natural then spiritual verse?  Here it seems that invisible/spiritual is first then natural, which obviously God is spirit so it would have to be first.

Possibly the natural then spiritual relates to types/ patterns or in relating to showing us the way home, whereas overall spirit then natural relates to the cosmic order (for lack of a better term)????

[micah7:9]

Micah, I think this is about birth in two stages.
First man is born from the mothers womb (water)
The man sorta breaks out of the womb.
Inside that man is a spirit. Mostly sleeping I would say.
But for some people that spirit wakes up. For examply by reading your posts  :winkgrin:
Then that spirit breaks out of the body.
That's the second birth.

Just like you were really Micah before you were born, you didn't manifest yourself until you were actually born.
I think :dontknow:

I didnt manifest myself at all.