reciently i've i started reading books of the bible out of the message bible, in the order of acts, gal, 1 thess, 2 thess, i cor, 2 cor.
and i have this question: about laws and court. 1 Cor. 6, when do we as followers of the Christ, take an offence to the non-christ court system, instead of the followers of Christ handling the offence.
to me it sounds like never, the way the message reads
The 12th chapter of Romans gives us some guidelines in this area I think.
One verse in particular is interesting.
Ro 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
If I understand your question properly, I do not think it is wrong for believers to utilize the court system if we do our best to resolve a situation that can glorify God.
I had some neighbors that started to harass us years ago, I made accomodations trying to keep the peace, but when my efforts were not recognized, I went to a system that they would have to.
I see no shame in keeping people accountable for their actions, even on this earth.
were your neighbors the kind of christians, that would submit to the discipline, correction and restoration of the local church authority?
Quote from: rockclimber on July 17, 2008, 12:59:04 AM
were your neighbors the kind of christians, that would submit to the discipline, correction and restoration of the local church authority?
No, they were the kind of people who would call the cops on an 8 year old kid disturbing the peace by shooting hoops in our own driveway. :sigh:
i would like anyones :2c: on this,
it seems to me that there are certain things that we overlook or dismiss in the word, this may be one.
there are many things that we have given over to the world and are letting them handle for us, i wonder if we should start taking them back.
Hi Rock Climber,
I think in some ways you could be right.
While if you believe that the situation I spoke of could of been resolved through a church, I need to add that my neighbors were not church goers, nor were they believers in any sense that was ever conveyed to me.
I don't regret or feel ashamed of how I handled the situation as sometimes authority is needed to resolve a situation.
I think the icon of church sometimes becomes seen as a welfare bucket, people with their hand out as they see the millions being raked in, why not spare some for them too. My late brother in law thought the church he attended should of bought him a car so he could go look for a job.
Funny, you know, where was people offering to give him rides to get a job so he could afford to buy his own? We stepped in and helped when we could. But just think of a church full of people organizing a bunch of people to give him rides in that manner would of spoke volumes. But no, they were more concerned that he might go to hell because he was living with a girl, oh my God such a sinner, just cast him away as the scum he is. In reality they saw him as beneath them, simple as that.
Thats the hidden demon in the church, I'll say it, cause its true. Yep I am generalizing, apologies if I seem judgmental towards all churches or Christians.
One suggestion I have made in every church I have attended was that we needed to organize to help people become productive instead of sending someone a basket of food and claim that the glory of God was presented to someone. Yeah, ok, so a Christmas basket to someone who needs a job can be a welcomed gift, but I think organized religion could be a powerful resource to get people trained and ready for a job.
I just get the silent nod of agreement as the subject gets changed to something much easier, like patting each other on the back or something as we drop out change in the bucket. It will indeed take a miracle to get me back inside a church building. :icon_jokercolor:
Hey Paul thanks for responding
Boy do I agree with you, and I and many others, probably everyone can see the same problems that you mentioned in "church", and also with me its going to take something special to get me back in a "church".
I believe that we are the church. I am, you are, I've had church many times in my front yard, and in my office, in my car, wherever I am with my friends, we can have church. And do.
I believe that we all need to be accountable to each other and not only to God, the way we know God and can test weather thing are of God is through the word and others. God is bigger than any one person or one religion, that is why we need each other, to get as much of God as we can. God is everywhere.
But that is not really what I was talking about.
Let the world judge the world, but why would we let the world judge the things, or people of God. This is some of what we should take back.
Now I'm not saying that this is an easy overnight fix, I figure it would take longer than any of us will live. But we should start, and it is the same with the "church" instead of getting out of it, we should be getting in it, because the world has got in there also and we should take it back, and be what a Christ church should be. I'm not talking about a building. A building is not a church; it's just a shelter from the elements.
We are the church.
Read acts in the message bible. Wow
I could be totally wrong in my thinking, but that is why I need yalls input, I cant get everything God wants of me without yalls help.
I would be curious to the situation Paul was speaking when he said those things. What was the court system like? Was the church situation different than it is now? Was he speaking among offences within the body, or those offences with non-believers too? I feel like we need the leading of the holy spirit in these matters. For instance, the idea of a woman not speaking in church was very relevant to the time but no so much now, could this be also?
Quote from: Sarah on July 17, 2008, 06:12:11 PM
For instance, the idea of a woman not speaking in church was very relevant to the time but no so much now, could this be also?
:winkgrin:
The world behaves like the world, so should we?
QuoteThe world behaves like the world, so should we?
No. What is your point? (I'm not being rude, I just don't get it).
Here is an example, if a woman is sexually harassed at work, should she file a harassment case to remove those evil men, go request prayer in church, do both, or nothing?
Personally I despise the law system, but their have been needed verdicts that have changed history.
Paul was talking to believers in corinth. about this, i would think let the world judge the world. and in cases of believer against world you must go to the world also. but in cases where believers are involved, its to bad we cant be grown up enough to keep between us. i hope someday we are able to take rebuke, councel, judgement, accountablity, etc... from other believers. On a higher deeper level.
i know there will always be some knuckle head believer that wants to go the way of the world. and im probably the one.