KJV looks good.
Lamentations 3:31-32 For the Lord will not cast off for ever: But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.
But just to be fair I'll use a more literal translation as I most often do.
YLT
Lamentations 3:31-32 For the Lord doth not cast off to the age. For though He afflicted, yet He hath pitied, According to the abundance of His kindness.
What happens if that age expires?
There is even a way to undersand the translations in the same way.
God does cast off for ever minus the age we live in now.
No more mercy/repentance after death CoG/Lee would say.
I could have posted this in the "Arguments against UR" section. But I think such arguments don't exist.
But the quoted verses are puzzling/negative enough to start a thread for.
As a very first question I would like some help with English....
What exactly does "to" mean? ==> to the age
Does it mean until/before the age starts. Or after the age starts.
That's a very important question IMO because it totally changes the meaning of the YLT translation.
Rotherham,
"Surely the Lord will not cast off unto time age-abiding,"
next verse
"Surely though he cause grief yet he will have compassion"
seems to me the grief and chastisement comes first, then the compassion and restoration, which is in harmony with the rest of the scriptures on how he judges.
Just some quick thoughts.
Grace and peace,
Brandon
Quotegrief and chastisement comes first, then the compassion and restoration,
Agreed.
Quotewhich is in harmony with the rest of the scriptures on how he judges
Agreed.
I agree with your conclusion. I had the same conclusion before I even posted this thread.
But still I find the verse strangely formulated. That could be very well due to my poor English.
I just happen to found the verse. And now I want to know it's exact meaning even if I already know the answer...
Quote from: aspiring son on August 21, 2009, 01:55:58 PM
Rotherham,
"Surely the Lord will not cast off unto time age-abiding,"
next verse
"Surely though he cause grief yet he will have compassion"
seems to me the grief and chastisement comes first, then the compassion and restoration, which is in harmony with the rest of the scriptures on how he judges.
Just some quick thoughts.
Grace and peace,
Brandon
so does this compassion and restoration occur in this life?? as we are told "sons" (those given faith) are the one's chastised.
Do the "bastards" get chastised??
I think it's important to distinguish between the "death" that occurs from being under the tutor (law) and dying daily which is a trial of one's faith.
Quote from: aspiring son on August 21, 2009, 01:55:58 PM
Rotherham,
"Surely the Lord will not cast off unto time age-abiding,"
next verse
"Surely though he cause grief yet he will have compassion"
seems to me the grief and chastisement comes first, then the compassion and restoration, which is in harmony with the rest of the scriptures on how he judges.
Just some quick thoughts.
Grace and peace,
Brandon
I still don't get it. It seems like it's saying that God does not cast off for an age. But, it seems like he does, when he chastises in age-lasting fire/age-lasting correction.
Any help in understanding this?
People,
Please reply to my OP. Especially the last part of it. Thanks.
whitewings, would you say that last verse was talking about
believing for another person? Declaring an "unbelieving
ungodly person godly based on the mercy of the Lord?"
Wouldn't that be looking at God instead of looking at their
works?
I know you'd say that God is no respector of persons.
I think we all know that.
Then look at how merciful He has predicted Himself to be
to the JEWS, or the "unbelieving disobedient" Jews who
were "blinded" so that...........do you realize that at the
the fulfillment of the Covenant that "takes away sins" not
just Promises that.......that wonderful grace is coming to
a people, since God is no respector of persons, does
that not give you confidence for the other. It sure did
me. . and I have studied for 40 years and just now saw
that!!! Re Romans 11 I mean. A guy wrote to me of the
Providence of God, and it opened my eyes.......I have
seen so much since then.
I can write a thread on that if you want.
Hi Redlettervoice,
It seems you are replying to my signature and not the the last part of my post.
No harm in that of course because I surely want to learn about my favorite verses.
According to the 3rd verse even those nasty goats have a chance...
QuoteI can write a thread on that if you want.
Please do. Thanks :thumbsup:
Quote from: Redlettervoice on August 22, 2009, 08:19:59 PM
whitewings, would you say that last verse was talking about
believing for another person? Declaring an "unbelieving
ungodly person godly based on the mercy of the Lord?"
I just copy and pasted the verse directly from the Bible.
And the way I read it its wrong.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ....
IMO the o should be O Uppercase because the mentioned One is divine. And for me that always should be uppercase.
It also changes the meaning of the verse drasticly. I mean there is a huge difference if I declare you righteous or Father/Son/HS declases you righteous.
I'll delete and move this post to your new thead.
Well, the more I think about it, the more I have to consider this:
It cannot possibly be that this verse suggests that when you're put into age-abiding judgement, or chastisement, that this means the casting off of a person. Otherwise, you get a contradiction. It must be assumed, I think, that this means something else besides judgement or chastisement. Because such things are said to be age-abiding.
I'm still confused though. xD
Tim B, WW,
Reading the whole third chapter helps put it into context. Jeremiah is saying surley the Lord himself will not cast off forever ( meaning he will not seem distant forever), so he waits for him because he is always faithful. I think we might have been reading into it a little too much.
Brandon
Quote from: aspiring son on August 23, 2009, 03:02:27 AM
Tim B, WW,
Reading the whole third chapter helps put it into context. Jeremiah is saying surley the Lord himself will not cast off forever ( meaning he will not seem distant forever), so he waits for him because he is always faithful. I think we might have been reading into it a little too much.
Brandon
Ooo, that makes sense. lol Aaah. Thanks for the insight!
Quote from: aspiring son on August 23, 2009, 03:02:27 AM
Reading the whole third chapter helps put it into context. Jeremiah is saying surley the Lord himself will not cast off forever ( meaning he will not seem distant forever), so he waits for him because he is always faithful. I think we might have been reading into it a little too much.
Hi Brandon,
As I wrote in my OP I know the verse is not negative. But I just keep feeling the KJV version is positive and the YLT version is negative.
That very well could be because I perhaps unwillingly apply Dutch grammar rules to a English sentence.
So my question was, and still is, about semantics. Not suggesting I might have found a crack in the UR armor.
I might have found part of the answer to my question.
QuoteAs a very first question I would like some help with English....
What exactly does "to" mean? ==> to the age
Does it mean until/before the age starts. Or after the age starts.
That's a very important question IMO because it totally changes the meaning of the YLT translation.
Romans 1:1 YLT Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, a called apostle, having been separated
to the good news of God --
The verses isn't about a past or future age. It's the age when Paul lived.
Lamentations 3:31-32 YLT For the Lord doth not cast off
to the age. For though He afflicted, yet He hath pitied, According to the abundance of His kindness.
Can I conclude that "to the age" means "this age"?
Note: I'm not implying the verses are linked. It's just about Youngs writing style.
the Hebrew word is "olam", let's consider it either means "forever" or for "lifetime"
forever applied to man, merely means for lifetime, applied to God, to eternity, the same with for lifetime. lifetime, applied to a fruit fly, a day only, applied to God, to eternity, I think it make sense to understand olam in that way.
God will not cast off for lifetime, as God is eternal, He will not cast off to eternity, His lifetime.
So the age/forever means the complete life span of a person?
I do not oppose that idea.
So what does the verse means according to you Sven?
a] God casts of a complete human life span but shows grace afterwards.
b] God casts of during a part of a human life span.
c] Something else.
Quote from: sven on August 23, 2009, 08:47:11 PM
the Hebrew word is "olam", let's consider it either means "forever" or for "lifetime"
forever applied to man, merely means for lifetime, applied to God, to eternity, the same with for lifetime. lifetime, applied to a fruit fly, a day only, applied to God, to eternity, I think it make sense to understand olam in that way.
God will not cast off for lifetime, as God is eternal, He will not cast off to eternity, His lifetime.
good word