Hey, I just asked my kids a few questions.
What would they do if they were God and what would the implications be?
Like curing all sickness and disease. How would the world as we know it change? Like no more hospitals, doctors, medicine......
What would be the negative effects (if any) and what would be the positive.
cp
Come on gang. No thoughts on this?
I put this forth respectfully. How would you change things if you were God or would you change things at all? Of course you have to answer from your limited vantage point and if you were God you would not have one but just comment from where you are at or use a little imagination and........
Maybe go with the obvious but explain how it would make things better or worse. You know like curing all sickness and disease with one snap of your fingers. How do you think this would work in the long run......
cp
Before I give you my answer, our guest pastor gave us some startling answers from a bunch of students at a private Christian school when asked this very same question.
The most common answers were these:
1. No more natural disasters.
2. No more wars.
3. No more hunger.
4. No more greedy people.
One kid said that he would send anyone who disagrees with him to burn in a death ray forever and ever, only allowing kind people to live in the world. Hmmm... wonder which doctrine he believes...
As for myself, I would probably make sure that my plan of universal salvation isn't hidden - it would be very clear for all to see, regardless of culture, language, or the time period in which they live.
I'm not sure how involved in the world I would be. I certainly don't think suffering is wrong, and I think that trying to escape from it shows weakness on my part. While suffering isn't enjoyable, I wouldn't change any of the suffering I've endured, except for perhaps one thing.
On the other hand, I may be persuaded to work a few miracles in peoples' lives.
I think why God allow this to happen is because he want human to fully understand what the robot cannot....I guess. :laughing7:
Quote from: Akira Takahashi on March 09, 2009, 05:41:01 AM
Before I give you my answer, our guest pastor gave us some startling answers from a bunch of students at a private Christian school when asked this very same question.
The most common answers were these:
1. No more natural disasters.
2. No more wars.
3. No more hunger.
4. No more greedy people.
One kid said that he would send anyone who disagrees with him to burn in a death ray forever and ever, only allowing kind people to live in the world. Hmmm... wonder which doctrine he believes...
As for myself, I would probably make sure that my plan of universal salvation isn't hidden - it would be very clear for all to see, regardless of culture, language, or the time period in which they live.
I'm not sure how involved in the world I would be. I certainly don't think suffering is wrong, and I think that trying to escape from it shows weakness on my part. While suffering isn't enjoyable, I wouldn't change any of the suffering I've endured, except for perhaps one thing.
On the other hand, I may be persuaded to work a few miracles in peoples' lives.
AT,
I'm surprised these questions are not being taken up here by more people as the responses can reflect what we believe about God.
You say you don't see suffering as wrong. Is this because it is here and if it is here then God is allowing it, if not actually orchestrating it, and if God is involved in it in any way then it has to have some intrinsic good attached to it? Is this why you say suffering is not wrong?
You say you don't know how involved in the world you would be. Do you see God as separate from the world?
Why do you think God hides His plan of salvation?
cp
If I were God, I wouldn't do one thing differently from how either He or I do things. It would all be the same. All of it by faith.
Quote from: IceDash on March 09, 2009, 08:40:52 AM
I think why God allow this to happen is because he want human to fully understand what the robot cannot....I guess. :laughing7:
I hear ya ID.
But what would you do to make humans fully understand what robots cannot? Would you allow the raping of little girls or would you make people with bodies that can feel pain to an unimaginable degree and then allow this pain to reach its limits often?
ID, can you think of any other ways of making humans learn in a way not robotic?
cp
Quote from: martincisneros on March 09, 2009, 02:45:22 PM
If I were God, I wouldn't do one thing differently from how either He or I do things. It would all be the same. All of it by faith.
Hi Martin.
Does God do things by faith?
I am not being negative here. Martin, I understand that maybe you are thinking that if you were God then you would understand why things are done as they are but I am asking from your POV now can you imagine doing things differently?
If you were God would you continue walking through the world and when seeing a horrible evil going on would you walk by it and let it continue? Maybe I should rephrase my question. How about if I asked that if you had the power to wipe out all pain and misery, would you and what do you think the implications of doing so would be to the world as we know it now?
These are not meaningless questions. I think they will make us search deep into things we kind of take for granted in some ways.
cp
All things are by the Word, Faith, the Blood, and the Anointing as they should be. I wouldn't do a single thing beyond how God does it, no matter what. He believes in His heart and says with His mouth and it comes to pass. I believe in my heart and say with my mouth and it comes to pass. Absolutely no difficulties for me. All of the provisions are just as available to anyone as they are to anyone else in Christ.
Quote from: martincisneros on March 09, 2009, 03:00:16 PM
All things are by the Word, Faith, the Blood, and the Anointing as they should be. I wouldn't do a single thing beyond how God does it, no matter what. He believes in His heart and says with His mouth and it comes to pass. I believe in my heart and say with my mouth and it comes to pass. Absolutely no difficulties for me. All of the provisions are just as available to anyone as they are to anyone else in Christ.
So Martin, do you speak rapes and murders into continuation as you know about them or do you speak a ceasing of these activities as you witness them?
So, if you had the power to heal with a word you wouldn't do it today to anyone?
What do you think the implications would be if all suffering and pain were erased from the world right now?
cp
QuoteIf I were God, I wouldn't do one thing differently...
Good answer. Go to the head of the class. :laughing7:
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 03:10:53 PM
QuoteIf I were God, I wouldn't do one thing differently...
Good answer. Go to the head of the class. :laughing7:
Safe answer anyway!
cp
What do you think the world would be like one year from now if the ability to lie were impossible?
Just looking for some fun, imaginative guesses.
cp
Quote from: martincisneros on March 09, 2009, 03:00:16 PM
All things are by the Word, Faith, the Blood, and the Anointing as they should be.
What does this mean?
Quote from: martincisneros on March 09, 2009, 03:00:16 PM
I wouldn't do a single thing beyond how God does it, no matter what. He believes in His heart and says with His mouth and it comes to pass.
God believes in His heart? Can you explain this a bit more?
Quote from: martincisneros on March 09, 2009, 03:00:16 PM
I believe in my heart and say with my mouth and it comes to pass. Absolutely no difficulties for me. All of the provisions are just as available to anyone as they are to anyone else in Christ.
Martin I don't fully understand. When you see a very sick person what are you believing in your heart and saying with your mouth concerning this person?
cp
"If I were God"
You'd all be in big trouble........
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 03:35:16 PM
"If I were God"
You'd all be in big trouble........
Now that sounds ominous! Like we're not reaping the consequences of our troubles now?
Hey Paul, what do you think? What would the world be like a year from now if all lying ceased this very minute?
We homeschool our kids (8 now and 3 out in the world already) and your answers will be used.
cp
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 03:57:10 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 03:35:16 PM
"If I were God"
You'd all be in big trouble........
Now that sounds ominous! Like we're not reaping the consequences of our troubles now?
Hey Paul, what do you think? What would the world be like a year from now if all lying ceased this very minute?
We homeschool our kids (8 now and 3 out in the world already) and your answers will be used.
cp
Actually my point is that I am not a good enough person to even begin to want to be God.
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 03:57:10 PM
What would the world be like a year from now if all lying ceased this very minute?
We think of lying as a terrible terrible thing. But is it always? If I like to wear something, does it really matter what anyone else thinks?
I wore the dumbest looking hat one time "even to me" but it was a hat a past dear friend wore as his favorite, he is gone from cancer now and he wore that because he was self conscious of his bald head. So one day I wanted to wear it in memory of my friend. I never told my friend I didn't like the hat, and never would have for any reason because it didn't matter if I liked the hat or not.
But if all lying stopped, then in a year, what would be the ramifications of always telling someone what they are wearing is stupid just because we didn't like it?
We would not be lying in that strict sense, but would it be beneficial?
I'd love to see my friend today with his stupid hat on.
QuoteWhat would the world be like a year from now if all lying ceased this very minute
That's a great question.
Have you see Liar Liar? It's hilarious--about a lawyer who can't tell a lie.
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:09:27 PM
QuoteWhat would the world be like a year from now if all lying ceased this very minute
That's a great question.
Have you see Liar Liar? It's hilarious--about a lawyer who can't tell a lie.
Yes, Molly I saw it and it was a good mind exercise.
So what do you think the world would be like in a year?
cp
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 04:13:26 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:09:27 PM
QuoteWhat would the world be like a year from now if all lying ceased this very minute
That's a great question.
Have you see Liar Liar? It's hilarious--about a lawyer who can't tell a lie.
Yes, Molly I saw it and it was a good mind exercise.
So what do you think the world would be like in a year?
cp
I think it would be wonderful--because truth is wonderful.
i would give carnies bigger hands :laughing7:
I think this thread is stupid.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:16:10 PM
I think this thread is stupid.
LOL! Is this your exercise in telling the truth?
Keeping your mouth shut would still be an option, you know...
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:16:10 PM
I think this thread is stupid.
LOL! Is this your exercise in telling the truth?
Keeping your mouth shut would still be an option, you know...
No one said I had to keep my mouth shut, truth is wonderful.
If your gonna be God, you need to think things through a bit more. ;)
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:08:39 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 03:57:10 PM
What would the world be like a year from now if all lying ceased this very minute?
We think of lying as a terrible terrible thing. But is it always? If I like to wear something, does it really matter what anyone else thinks?
I wore the dumbest looking hat one time "even to me" but it was a hat a past dear friend wore as his favorite, he is gone from cancer now and he wore that because he was self conscious of his bald head. So one day I wanted to wear it in memory of my friend. I never told my friend I didn't like the hat, and never would have for any reason because it didn't matter if I liked the hat or not.
But if all lying stopped, then in a year, what would be the ramifications of always telling someone what they are wearing is stupid just because we didn't like it?
We would not be lying in that strict sense, but would it be beneficial?
I'd love to see my friend today with his stupid hat on.
Paul, I know exactly what you mean about lying to help someone. Like when Jews were in hiding, it was good (to me anyway) that others lied to protect them.
Do you think there is 'lying' and then there is 'lying'?
God sure doesn't seem to pull any punches does He? He tells us we are stinking rotten sinners but then He tells us He loves us and will fix us up.
I wonder if your friend and all of us can't take the truth because we are so accustomed to lies. In other words if all the people in my wifes life always told her in an honest way what clothes looked good on her and what didn't then maybe she could handle the negative truths much better. What do you think?
cp
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:16:10 PM
I think this thread is stupid.
LOL! Is this your exercise in telling the truth?
Keeping your mouth shut would still be an option, you know...
No one said I had to keep my mouth shut, truth is wonderful.
But nobody asked what you thought about the thread...
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:16:10 PM
I think this thread is stupid.
LOL! Is this your exercise in telling the truth?
Keeping your mouth shut would still be an option, you know...
No one said I had to keep my mouth shut, truth is wonderful.
But nobody asked what you thought about the thread...
Why does truth need a question?
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:19:09 PM
If your gonna be God, you need to think things through a bit more. ;)
Man Paul, I almost fell out of my chair laughing..............this thread is stupid! And Molly, thanks for coming to the rescue. You all are great and that's no lie!!!!!
Thinking things through is exactly what this thread is all about. It has been causing some very good and creative and God centered thinking from my perspective.
cp
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 04:19:25 PM
I wonder if your friend and all of us can't take the truth because we are so accustomed to lies. In other words if all the people in my wifes life always told her in an honest way what clothes looked good on her and what didn't then maybe she could handle the negative truths much better. What do you think?
The question there is why does it matter what hat my friend wears?
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:16:10 PM
I think this thread is stupid.
LOL! Is this your exercise in telling the truth?
Keeping your mouth shut would still be an option, you know...
No one said I had to keep my mouth shut, truth is wonderful.
But nobody asked what you thought about the thread...
Why does truth need a question?
Because truth is always an answer to a question...
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:24:19 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:16:10 PM
I think this thread is stupid.
LOL! Is this your exercise in telling the truth?
Keeping your mouth shut would still be an option, you know...
No one said I had to keep my mouth shut, truth is wonderful.
But nobody asked what you thought about the thread...
Why does truth need a question?
Because truth is always an answer to a question...
Did God wait for us to ask?
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:16:10 PM
I think this thread is stupid.
LOL! Is this your exercise in telling the truth?
Keeping your mouth shut would still be an option, you know...
No one said I had to keep my mouth shut, truth is wonderful.
But nobody asked what you thought about the thread...
Why does truth need a question?
Paul, I didn't ask what would happen if 'love' (considering peoples feelings) were taken out of the world.
Maybe we would have to work harder at loving in other ways than lying if lying were not an option. Ever consider that Brother?
cp
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:23:57 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 04:19:25 PM
I wonder if your friend and all of us can't take the truth because we are so accustomed to lies. In other words if all the people in my wifes life always told her in an honest way what clothes looked good on her and what didn't then maybe she could handle the negative truths much better. What do you think?
The question there is why does it matter what hat my friend wears?
Paul, it truely doesn't so please see my post a few up from here.........here I'll add it here.....
Paul, I didn't ask what would happen if 'love' (considering peoples feelings) were taken out of the world.
Maybe we would have to work harder at loving in other ways than lying if lying were not an option. Ever consider that Brother?cp
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:25:13 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:24:19 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:16:10 PM
I think this thread is stupid.
LOL! Is this your exercise in telling the truth?
Keeping your mouth shut would still be an option, you know...
No one said I had to keep my mouth shut, truth is wonderful.
But nobody asked what you thought about the thread...
Why does truth need a question?
Because truth is always an answer to a question...
Did God wait for us to ask?
Yes.
And, he never denies us an answer, unless it's for our own good.
Mark 9:32
But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 04:27:56 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:23:57 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 04:19:25 PM
I wonder if your friend and all of us can't take the truth because we are so accustomed to lies. In other words if all the people in my wifes life always told her in an honest way what clothes looked good on her and what didn't then maybe she could handle the negative truths much better. What do you think?
The question there is why does it matter what hat my friend wears?
Paul, it truely doesn't so please see my post a few up from here.........here I'll add it here.....
Paul, I didn't ask what would happen if 'love' (considering peoples feelings) were taken out of the world.
Maybe we would have to work harder at loving in other ways than lying if lying were not an option. Ever consider that Brother?
cp
Yes, and stop asking questions we don't want to know the answer to so we can keep lying to ourselves.
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 04:25:28 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:16:10 PM
I think this thread is stupid.
LOL! Is this your exercise in telling the truth?
Keeping your mouth shut would still be an option, you know...
No one said I had to keep my mouth shut, truth is wonderful.
But nobody asked what you thought about the thread...
Why does truth need a question?
Paul, I didn't ask what would happen if 'love' (considering peoples feelings) were taken out of the world.
Maybe we would have to work harder at loving in other ways than lying if lying were not an option. Ever consider that Brother?
cp
Love is another thing though, do all acts of love consider someone feelings?
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:25:13 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:24:19 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:16:10 PM
I think this thread is stupid.
LOL! Is this your exercise in telling the truth?
Keeping your mouth shut would still be an option, you know...
No one said I had to keep my mouth shut, truth is wonderful.
But nobody asked what you thought about the thread...
Why does truth need a question?
Because truth is always an answer to a question...
Did God wait for us to ask?
Paul, I don't understand your question.
cp
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:29:25 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:25:13 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:24:19 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:16:10 PM
I think this thread is stupid.
LOL! Is this your exercise in telling the truth?
Keeping your mouth shut would still be an option, you know...
No one said I had to keep my mouth shut, truth is wonderful.
But nobody asked what you thought about the thread...
Why does truth need a question?
Because truth is always an answer to a question...
Did God wait for us to ask?
Yes.
And, he never denies us an answer, unless it's for our own good.
Mark 9:32
But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.
God did not wait for us to ask to provide his law and instruction on what to do.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:32:05 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 04:25:28 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:17:28 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:16:10 PM
I think this thread is stupid.
LOL! Is this your exercise in telling the truth?
Keeping your mouth shut would still be an option, you know...
No one said I had to keep my mouth shut, truth is wonderful.
But nobody asked what you thought about the thread...
Why does truth need a question?
Paul, I didn't ask what would happen if 'love' (considering peoples feelings) were taken out of the world.
Maybe we would have to work harder at loving in other ways than lying if lying were not an option. Ever consider that Brother?
cp
Love is another thing though, do all acts of love consider someone feelings?
Excellent, excellent question Paul! Excellent.
Do we lie out of consideration for someones feelings? Brings me back to my other comment about maybe we would be much stronger and considerate in other ways if lying was not an option.
People say evil is here to teach us yet I wonder if we would learn more if evil, like lying, were not here.
cp
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:14:34 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 04:13:26 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 09, 2009, 04:09:27 PM
QuoteWhat would the world be like a year from now if all lying ceased this very minute
That's a great question.
Have you see Liar Liar? It's hilarious--about a lawyer who can't tell a lie.
Yes, Molly I saw it and it was a good mind exercise.
So what do you think the world would be like in a year?
cp
I think it would be wonderful--because truth is wonderful.
Molly, this response almost brought tears to my eyes!
cp
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:33:40 PM
God did not wait for us to ask to provide his law and instruction on what to do.
Paul, forgive my dullness, but I still don't see what you are saying. What does this have to do with my original question about what would the world be like if people couldn't lie.
cp
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 04:35:49 PM
People say evil is here to teach us yet I wonder if we would learn more if evil, like lying, were not here.
I don't know for sure, but here is what I have experienced. I was treated very horribly as a child, according to how I felt. I can look back and see that some of the things were beneficial, others I still retain and struggle over. I'd love for those struggles to not be there at all, I have pleaded and screamed at God to take many of them away.
Yet, I am now seeing that without all those things in place, i could not actually "know" "believe" and "understand" what love really is about. I know people that didn't have such a hard life, that say they love, they make a big deal about their willingness to love. But after getting to know them more, their love is actually more of a pity that people aren't more like they are.
I could be wrong, but I do not see that as love.
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 04:40:56 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:33:40 PM
God did not wait for us to ask to provide his law and instruction on what to do.
Paul, forgive my dullness, but I still don't see what you are saying. What does this have to do with my original question about what would the world be like if people couldn't lie.
cp
Probably nothing, I was responding to Mollys answer.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:44:14 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 04:35:49 PM
People say evil is here to teach us yet I wonder if we would learn more if evil, like lying, were not here.
I don't know for sure, but here is what I have experienced. I was treated very horribly as a child, according to how I felt. I can look back and see that some of the things were beneficial, others I still retain and struggle over. I'd love for those struggles to not be there at all, I have pleaded and screamed at God to take many of them away.
Yet, I am now seeing that without all those things in place, i could not actually "know" "believe" and "understand" what love really is about. I know people that didn't have such a hard life, that say they love, they make a big deal about their willingness to love. But after getting to know them more, their love is actually more of a pity that people aren't more like they are.
I could be wrong, but I do not see that as love.
Paul, with all due, I mean it, respect to your childhood nightmares you are not saying that others who have had a good childhood learn 'love' in a lesser way are you?
cp
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 02:41:15 PM
AT,
I'm surprised these questions are not being taken up here by more people as the responses can reflect what we believe about God.
You say you don't see suffering as wrong. Is this because it is here and if it is here then God is allowing it, if not actually orchestrating it, and if God is involved in it in any way then it has to have some intrinsic good attached to it? Is this why you say suffering is not wrong?
You say you don't know how involved in the world you would be. Do you see God as separate from the world?
Why do you think God hides His plan of salvation?
cp
I do believe that there is good in suffering. I see it as a way to test and strengthen character. Suffering has brought me to times in my life where I've almost given up, and at one point even attempted to take my own life. However, in hind sight, I think it was a very good experience for me. It challenged me to look at the world with a different view. I feel that suffering is almost essential for us to grow as human beings.
As for your second question, I don't think I see God as seperate from the world, but compared to His actions in the Bible, I'd say that He doesn't involve himself in determining the course of history quite so much.
As for your third question, I really don't have any idea. I'm not an expert on this stuff, so my opinions are relatively unfounded.
If I was God I think I would be Bacchus :)
I think I would pull some kind of stunt on the ETs :-)
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 05:14:10 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:44:14 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 04:35:49 PM
People say evil is here to teach us yet I wonder if we would learn more if evil, like lying, were not here.
I don't know for sure, but here is what I have experienced. I was treated very horribly as a child, according to how I felt. I can look back and see that some of the things were beneficial, others I still retain and struggle over. I'd love for those struggles to not be there at all, I have pleaded and screamed at God to take many of them away.
Yet, I am now seeing that without all those things in place, i could not actually "know" "believe" and "understand" what love really is about. I know people that didn't have such a hard life, that say they love, they make a big deal about their willingness to love. But after getting to know them more, their love is actually more of a pity that people aren't more like they are.
I could be wrong, but I do not see that as love.
Paul, with all due, I mean it, respect to your childhood nightmares you are not saying that others who have had a good childhood learn 'love' in a lesser way are you?
cp
No, actually I'm making a point about how do we determine what love is? Is it feelings? Is it experiences?
I don't believe I love very well, even if I might think I understand it. Someone telling me they wish I had been raised like them, is that really love?
What is love? If we are going to pretend to play God then what is it exactly God ought to be doing?
Quote from: Akira Takahashi on March 09, 2009, 05:24:51 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 02:41:15 PM
AT,
I'm surprised these questions are not being taken up here by more people as the responses can reflect what we believe about God.
You say you don't see suffering as wrong. Is this because it is here and if it is here then God is allowing it, if not actually orchestrating it, and if God is involved in it in any way then it has to have some intrinsic good attached to it? Is this why you say suffering is not wrong?
You say you don't know how involved in the world you would be. Do you see God as separate from the world?
Why do you think God hides His plan of salvation?
cp
I do believe that there is good in suffering. I see it as a way to test and strengthen character. Suffering has brought me to times in my life where I've almost given up, and at one point even attempted to take my own life. However, in hind sight, I think it was a very good experience for me. It challenged me to look at the world with a different view. I feel that suffering is almost essential for us to grow as human beings.
I hear ya on the good coming out of suffering, AT. I wonder though, can't good come out of good? Of course it can and does and I'm not trying to be argumentative, just hoping to deepen my relationship with the Almighty.
QuoteAs for your second question, I don't think I see God as seperate from the world, but compared to His actions in the Bible, I'd say that He doesn't involve himself in determining the course of history quite so much.
Do you see God as involved in the world via being within all life in some form or another?
QuoteAs for your third question, I really don't have any idea. I'm not an expert on this stuff, so my opinions are relatively unfounded.
Opinions are all we got it seems. :dontknow:
cp
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 05:30:21 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 05:14:10 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 04:44:14 PM
Quote from: claypot on March 09, 2009, 04:35:49 PM
People say evil is here to teach us yet I wonder if we would learn more if evil, like lying, were not here.
I don't know for sure, but here is what I have experienced. I was treated very horribly as a child, according to how I felt. I can look back and see that some of the things were beneficial, others I still retain and struggle over. I'd love for those struggles to not be there at all, I have pleaded and screamed at God to take many of them away.
Yet, I am now seeing that without all those things in place, i could not actually "know" "believe" and "understand" what love really is about. I know people that didn't have such a hard life, that say they love, they make a big deal about their willingness to love. But after getting to know them more, their love is actually more of a pity that people aren't more like they are.
I could be wrong, but I do not see that as love.
Paul, with all due, I mean it, respect to your childhood nightmares you are not saying that others who have had a good childhood learn 'love' in a lesser way are you?
cp
No, actually I'm making a point about how do we determine what love is? Is it feelings? Is it experiences?
I don't believe I love very well, even if I might think I understand it. Someone telling me they wish I had been raised like them, is that really love?
What is love? If we are going to pretend to play God then what is it exactly God ought to be doing?
Exactly where I am going in my thoughts and thus this thread.
Paul, your question, 'What is love' brought back so many memories. It is the question that brought me to God. I asked that question a million times before I ever opened a Bible. I got invited to church one day and the Pastor said God is love and that began my journey some 28 years ago and I'm still finding out what love is via finding out who God is.
Questions like I am proposing on this thread is a real step for me in understanding this God I say I believe in.
Why would I think I would stop all lying and suffering if I had the power when I see God allowing it and He has the power? Again my question probably should not be 'If we were God......' but 'If we had the power to do this or that.......'
cp
:cloud9: I've always jokingly said my first official act as a manifested Son of God if I had my way, would be to evaporate all spiders and poisonous snakes. :mblush: What?! You were expecting something spiritual? :laughing7: Blessings....
I understand what your saying CP. There are a lot of things I might eliminate if I had the power. It is one reason I don't want it I guess.
I know whats inside me and whether it is always good to let other people know, thats just how I am.
In reality, if I had the power I'd make utopia and we wpuld all be robots and be good and loving and kind and live a wonderful pleasant life and no one would know the difference.
We work out the problem of evil and suffering to make some kind of sense out of it because we do not have a choice but to live with it.
There is a verse that I use and some people get upset that I am reducing God and his glory, but there is a reason for every single scripture whether we like them or not,. whether we understand them all or not.
1C 1:25 for the stupidity of God is wiser than human men, and the weakness of God is stronger than human men.
People will contextualize this various ways I think, but I believe there is some significance to the ramifications of this life.
If God could have just made a utopia and we actually could learn love without going through all of this, then is God actually a monster after all?
If he really could of done it different, then why are we defending him?
If you knew of someone who did something painful to someone and their defence was that the outcome was good you might reconsider how you felt about that person. However what if you found out that they KNEW of a way to do the same thing painlessly, would your view of that person be the same?
I think while God can never be weaker than us, I still believe that god cannot do "everything". What if there is only one process to perfection and even God cannot do anything about it, and we are in that process right now and thats just how it is and even God can't change it.
Thats the only purpose I see for that verse. and it is the only verse that keeps me from giving the finger to God sometimes and thats just me being honest.
Quote from: Cardinal on March 09, 2009, 06:05:12 PM
:cloud9: I've always jokingly said my first official act as a manifested Son of God if I had my way, would be to evaporate all spiders and poisonous snakes. :mblush: What?! You were expecting something spiritual? :laughing7: Blessings....
Not from you Card, not from you! :laughing7:
cp
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 06:46:45 PM
I understand what your saying CP. There are a lot of things I might eliminate if I had the power. It is one reason I don't want it I guess.
I know whats inside me and whether it is always good to let other people know, thats just how I am.
In reality, if I had the power I'd make utopia and we wpuld all be robots and be good and loving and kind and live a wonderful pleasant life and no one would know the difference.
Sounds like a description of heaven minus the robot part.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 06:46:45 PM
We work out the problem of evil and suffering to make some kind of sense out of it because we do not have a choice but to live with it.
Amen, I hear ya.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on March 09, 2009, 06:46:45 PM
There is a verse that I use and some people get upset that I am reducing God and his glory, but there is a reason for every single scripture whether we like them or not,. whether we understand them all or not.
1C 1:25 for the stupidity of God is wiser than human men, and the weakness of God is stronger than human men.
People will contextualize this various ways I think, but I believe there is some significance to the ramifications of this life.
If God could have just made a utopia and we actually could learn love without going through all of this, then is God actually a monster after all?
If he really could of done it different, then why are we defending him?
If you knew of someone who did something painful to someone and their defence was that the outcome was good you might reconsider how you felt about that person. However what if you found out that they KNEW of a way to do the same thing painlessly, would your view of that person be the same?
I think while God can never be weaker than us, I still believe that god cannot do "everything". What if there is only one process to perfection and even God cannot do anything about it, and we are in that process right now and thats just how it is and even God can't change it.
Thats the only purpose I see for that verse. and it is the only verse that keeps me from giving the finger to God sometimes and thats just me being honest.
Heavy stuff Brother but I hear the honesty coming forth and I know God honors honesty. I can be pretty point blank with God too and it's scary. I want to do some thinking on your words before I say more.
cp
I agree with Martin. :happy3: Why even try to imagine to do things differently than the most intelligent being in the universe does?
CHB
Quote from: CHB on March 10, 2009, 12:42:57 AM
I agree with Martin. :happy3: Why even try to imagine to do things differently than the most intelligent being in the universe does?
CHB
God invites us to reason with Him and I think reasoning with Him creates intimacy.
Imagining is using ones brain and can bring one outside the box and that's where I think God lives.
CHB, isn't almost all of our knowledge of God via the Scriptures, guesswork of a sort. I mean I know God loves us, but what does even that entail. We know so much and yet we really don't.
cp
Quote from: Cardinal on March 09, 2009, 06:05:12 PM
:cloud9: I've always jokingly said my first official act as a manifested Son of God if I had my way, would be to evaporate all spiders and poisonous snakes. :mblush: What?! You were expecting something spiritual? :laughing7: Blessings....
That is exactly what you are doing as a manifested Son of God, evaporating spiders and poisonous snakes. It doesn't get any more spiritual than that!!!
cp
Quote from: Cardinal on March 09, 2009, 06:05:12 PM
:cloud9: I've always jokingly said my first official act as a manifested Son of God if I had my way, would be to evaporate all spiders and poisonous snakes. :mblush: What?! You were expecting something spiritual? :laughing7: Blessings....
What kinda god you are? Not even giving them immortal bodies and then into hell with them? You know they really asked for it!
(http://img.brothersoft.com/icon/softimage/f/flame-spider_-_sitemap_generator-191865.jpeg)
Quote from: claypot on March 11, 2009, 09:01:54 PM
Quote from: Cardinal on March 09, 2009, 06:05:12 PM
:cloud9: I've always jokingly said my first official act as a manifested Son of God if I had my way, would be to evaporate all spiders and poisonous snakes. :mblush: What?! You were expecting something spiritual? :laughing7: Blessings....
That is exactly what you are doing as a manifested Son of God, evaporating spiders and poisonous snakes. It doesn't get any more spiritual than that!!! cp
:cloud9: roflol, that's true, cp.......hadn't thought of it that way...... :laughing7: :thumbsup:
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 11, 2009, 09:09:57 PM
Quote from: Cardinal on March 09, 2009, 06:05:12 PM
:cloud9: I've always jokingly said my first official act as a manifested Son of God if I had my way, would be to evaporate all spiders and poisonous snakes. :mblush: What?! You were expecting something spiritual? :laughing7: Blessings....
What kinda god you are? Not even giving them immortal bodies and then into hell with them? You know they really asked for it!
(http://img.brothersoft.com/icon/softimage/f/flame-spider_-_sitemap_generator-191865.jpeg)
:cloud9: roflol.....apparently these are one of things Adam birthed (named/natured out of his own heart) that I just don't feel the love for......no group hug with them here. :laughing7:
If I were God.............???? well, now let's see.
God is LOVE.
So if "I" were God...........
LOVE is OF GOD!!!
No matter how many say they are God, they can't find the
dayspring! They can't make the eagle mount up! They can't
exhalt the low and put down the high. They can only "do" what
God does "thru" them. And shouldn't even try to do more. Jesus
didn't.
They can't "be" but what they are!
And GOD can't be but what HE is!
Enjoy whatever He gives you!
Quote from: Redlettervoice on March 11, 2009, 09:56:41 PM
If I were God.............???? well, now let's see.
Red, I should have asked.....if you had maximum control over any vice in the world, how would you use it and what do you think the ramifications would be? Like if you could stop all lying, what do you think the condition of the world would be like in one year and in 20 years.
Quote from: Redlettervoice on March 11, 2009, 09:56:41 PMNo matter how many say they are God, they can't find the
dayspring! They can't make the eagle mount up! They can't
exhalt the low and put down the high. They can only "do" what
God does "thru" them. And shouldn't even try to do more. Jesus
didn't.
Red, I sure don't want to imply that we can ever be God. I am trying to get at something in my own head and this is the only way I know how to get there and you commenting on my question will help as did all the others who commented.
Quote from: Redlettervoice on March 11, 2009, 09:56:41 PMThey can't "be" but what they are!
And GOD can't be but what HE is!
Enjoy whatever He gives you!
We can't, He can't and I will. Thanks Red. Say Hi to Jack for me.
cp
I think Jack is writing as Juan over on the Snowman board.
That's the only place I see him lately!
I don't know how to answer your questions............so..........
sorry. But I think I would choose "deceit" rather than lying.
There "is" a difference, you know. One of these days, God
will have a chain, unity, linked together that he will use to
put a lid on the bottomless pit and the devil will no longer
"deceive" the nations. Yeah, I'd choose "deceit."
But what will happen when God does this is written.
Quote from: Redlettervoice on March 12, 2009, 12:53:25 AM
I think Jack is writing as Juan over on the Snowman board.
That's the only place I see him lately!
Got a link? I don't know a Snowman board.
QuoteI don't know how to answer your questions............so..........
sorry. But I think I would choose "deceit" rather than lying.
There "is" a difference, you know.
I know.
QuoteOne of these days, God
will have a chain, unity, linked together that he will use to
put a lid on the bottomless pit and the devil will no longer
"deceive" the nations. Yeah, I'd choose "deceit."
But what will happen when God does this is written.
I hear ya. That chain and lid are Jesus Christ in me and you I'm a thinkin.
cp
See it all just as you do.
http://www.treasuresofthesnow.citymaker.com/page/page/2973482.htm