Weekly Spiritual Discipline

[lomarah]

Lomorah your last two posts on judging have really helped me. Shawn , what clear thinking on written words. Also helpful. I realized how my post came off only after Lloyd pointed it out and how I had misjudged the term so quickly because of my past trauma with ET. Sheila your comments on thoughts reminded me of a time when the powerful words, "these thoughts are not my thoughts" released me from a lot of that negative, accusing chatter was getting louder and more constant in my head and I knew/know so little about spiritual warfare. For example, I cast them off and figured I was done with that for good. Haha, yeah right. It's been such a wild ride for me these last three years. I'm so glad The Lord led me to this forum. Sharpening indeed!  More like I got my entire previous fifty years on the potter's wheel pounded back into a lump and started all over. Yes, quite a blow to Mr. Ego! But who would have it any other way with the knowledge of Christ crucified. Bye bye dung!  "No, no!", says Mr. Ego.  "Yes, yes!", says the new creation.
For me these boards have been a big ETer's anonymous meeting. Maybe we oughtta have a room like that. Maybe we do. Sharing our experience, strength and hope. Taking what we like and leaving the rest.

I loved this. ETer's anonymous haha that's definitely a big part of what we are here! :)
Your post really blessed me this morning Colleen.

[Colleen]

 :thumbsup:

[Lloyd]

misszoolander: Have I made a mistake? A mistake to me, is if you have taken offence to anything I have said. Let's move on to the current topic rather then how right/wrong/judgmental we are.

The mistake that I felt people were making was being intolerant of my effort to improve my spiritual discipline, because all I seemed to hear at first was criticism of it. I probably can't know if my impression of such intolerance was accurate, but I think that's what communication is for, to get increasingly more accurate impressions. I know I don't communicate perfectly either, so there's generally always a need to try to improve communication.

I have trouble controlling my thoughts as my mind [... ?] wanders without me thinking, I often also get strange thoughts just pop up in my head for little reason. These thoughts are not nice... thoughts about revenge, greed, pride.

About ten years ago I learned to pray by thanking instead of asking. I think the person I heard that suggestion from got the idea from the gospel somewhere. When I talk to God, I usually refer to Him as Ye. So, when I get the kinds of thoughts you mention, I would tend to respond by saying something like this. "Thank Ye for giving me the discernment to recognize how dangerous that thought is and thanks for removing it from me permanently and for reforming whatever is the source of that crap and for forgiving my naivete' for entertaining the thought." Thanking seems to give me a bit more useful attitude than does asking/pleading, so it's like a done deal, instead of a mere potential eventuality. So far, it seems to have been a big improvement for me. And it's part of my imperfect spiritual discipline. (Thank Ye for providing means to improve that discipline.)

[redhotmagma]

About ten years ago I learned to pray by thanking instead of asking. I think the person I heard that suggestion from got the idea from the gospel somewhere. When I talk to God, I usually refer to Him as Ye. So, when I get the kinds of thoughts you mention, I would tend to respond by saying something like this. "Thank Ye for giving me the discernment to recognize how dangerous that thought is and thanks for removing it from me permanently and for reforming whatever is the source of that crap and for forgiving my naivete' for entertaining the thought." Thanking seems to give me a bit more useful attitude than does asking/pleading, so it's like a done deal, instead of a mere potential eventuality. So far, it seems to have been a big improvement for me. And it's part of my imperfect spiritual discipline. (Thank Ye for providing means to improve that discipline.)

I like that Lloyd  :thumbsup:

[Colleen]

I do too. Thank you Lloyd. My first thought was of God calling things that are not, as though they are. Just beautiful!

[reFORMer]

From others we've learned how in noble condescending gestures to quickly try to insert the "grace" idea if anyone says anything about doing something with God.  "They must be in legalistic bondage," we've been told.  Gene Edwards said there are only three denominations:  the think-ers, the be-ers, and the do-ers.  I've noticed the think-ers and the be-ers zealously proselytize the do-rs, often telling everybody how wrong they are.  Often this is the product of a sectarian carnal mind, rather than following the spirit.  Claiming it's a call to do-ers to come into their fellowship, they alienate by condemning what they don't understand.  Thinking, being and doing are part of everybody's life.

[shawn]

From others we've learned how in noble condescending gestures to quickly try to insert the "grace" idea if anyone says anything about doing something with God.  "They must be in legalistic bondage," we've been told.  Gene Edwards said there are only three denominations:  the think-ers, the be-ers, and the do-ers.  I've noticed the think-ers and the be-ers zealously proselytize the do-rs, often telling everybody how wrong they are.  Often this is the product of a sectarian carnal mind, rather than following the spirit.  Claiming it's a call to do-ers to come into their fellowship, they alienate by condemning what they don't understand.  Thinking, being and doing are part of everybody's life.

Interesting thoughts.  But, I wonder why the segregation at all?  Isn't this about where our eyes are turned?  We all think, be, and do.  The question remains where our eyes should be.  From my experience, If my watchful eyes are on me, my do and be are utterly carnal and sickening to my spirit.   I can't.  That I know.  By his grace I can focus my eyes on Christ.  My do is then an extension of relationship, not an extension of white knuckling down what I believe I should be doing.   

For me, my "doing something with God" ends with me looking at my failures.  It becomes more about me doing than God doing.  I focus on why I'm not doing it right.  Today, I'm utterly convinced that I couldn't, can't, and won't unless its all God.  Even the faith I have today is from Him.  My ability to turn my eyes upon Him is from Him.  How can I partner with God?  I'm not much of a partner.  So, today I eagerly await.

[eaglesway]

They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength.

Our waiting produces right relationship through hearing(faith comes by hearing), which activates/renews our being. This shines out through our thinking, which begins to change into accord with our being- impowered with might by His Spirit in the inner man. This opens the door for the Spirit's doing in and through us- for it is God who is in us to will and to work of His pleasure.

Sounds so easy and reasonable ;o)

[lomarah]

 :thumbsup:

[lomarah]

PS - HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOUUUUUU!!  :friendstu:

[shawn]

They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength.

Our waiting produces right relationship through hearing(faith comes by hearing), which activates/renews our being. This shines out through our thinking, which begins to change into accord with our being- impowered with might by His Spirit in the inner man. This opens the door for the Spirit's doing in and through us- for it is God who is in us to will and to work of His pleasure.

Sounds so easy and reasonable ;o)

That is how I understand it as well.

I feel a need to say something.  Maybe this is just for me, but I suspect it isn't.  I am a child of two alcoholics.  As much as I love my parents, I realize I learned some things in my childhood that effected my relationship with God.  These things I had to unlearn to find freedom.  In childhood I learned that I needed to do, and to be in order to find love and acceptance.  If I succeeded and accomplished then I was worthy of affection.  I was significant.  If I failed, I was not.  Learning a works based image of myself was destructable to my spirit.  It left me constantly feeling like I didn't measure up, guilt ridden, inept, depressed, and anxious.  Where is God in that?

I believe the Law is there to show us our need for God.  Grace is there because I can't.  Today, I still struggle with self image issues, specifically the how does God feel about me question.  I know intellectually that God loves me unconditionally.  I understand grace on a cognitive level.  But, I have been recently shown that many of my actions show that I haven't internalized either of those things.  My faith in God's love has been tested and I have been found wanting.  But, what I know is this...that the mirror comes out before the change.  I become aware, then God moves.  It has little to nothing to do with me.  In fact I believe it happens despite me, outside of me.

I am also aware that we all have our own personal journey.  And I too can get caught up with trying to transpose my experience upon another.  It's something I have to be very careful about.

[micah7:9]

They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength.

Our waiting produces right relationship through hearing(faith comes by hearing), which activates/renews our being. This shines out through our thinking, which begins to change into accord with our being- impowered with might by His Spirit in the inner man. This opens the door for the Spirit's doing in and through us- for it is God who is in us to will and to work of His pleasure.

Sounds so easy and reasonable ;o)

That is how I understand it as well.

I feel a need to say something.  Maybe this is just for me, but I suspect it isn't.  I am a child of two alcoholics.  As much as I love my parents, I realize I learned some things in my childhood that effected my relationship with God.  These things I had to unlearn to find freedom.  In childhood I learned that I needed to do, and to be in order to find love and acceptance.  If I succeeded and accomplished then I was worthy of affection.  I was significant.  If I failed, I was not.  Learning a works based image of myself was destructable to my spirit.  It left me constantly feeling like I didn't measure up, guilt ridden, inept, depressed, and anxious.  Where is God in that?

I believe the Law is there to show us our need for God.  Grace is there because I can't.  Today, I still struggle with self image issues, specifically the how does God feel about me question.  I know intellectually that God loves me unconditionally.  I understand grace on a cognitive level.  But, I have been recently shown that many of my actions show that I haven't internalized either of those things.  My faith in God's love has been tested and I have been found wanting.  But, what I know is this...that the mirror comes out before the change.  I become aware, then God moves.  It has little to nothing to do with me.  In fact I believe it happens despite me, outside of me.

I am also aware that we all have our own personal journey.  And I too can get caught up with trying to transpose my experience upon another.  It's something I have to be very careful about.

I love you my friend and I am so well aware of OUR Father's love being unconditional, and there is my rest, amid all my unrest. Thank you my friend and brother. :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[sheila]

well,Shawn..there is in fact a place of spiritual exhaustion.....have been

there myself....he wore out the saints...the nations exhaust themselves for

nothing.....and love requires  total rest for such.Even while you sleep/rest

  among the campfires..your wings are sheathed with silver.

     rest for the weary....if you rest..rest in the Lord....if you do,do as

  unto the Lord...all things are pure unto the pure.

   

[dajomaco]

A very frightened puppy when consoled ,will tell the whole world
he feels save . Using body language and cooing wimpier.

Then before you know it he is off playing and exploring .
As long as he knows the Alpha or master are near by he has no fear.

I of late have finished proving to myself that the master is always near.
I would definitely call the season I am in.
Alpha play time and Alpha explore time.

[shawn]

well,Shawn..there is in fact a place of spiritual exhaustion.....have been

there myself....he wore out the saints...the nations exhaust themselves for

nothing.....and love requires  total rest for such.Even while you sleep/rest

  among the campfires..your wings are sheathed with silver.

     rest for the weary....if you rest..rest in the Lord....if you do,do as

  unto the Lord...all things are pure unto the pure.

   

That brought a tear to my eye.  Thank you for you for that.

[shawn]

They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength.

Our waiting produces right relationship through hearing(faith comes by hearing), which activates/renews our being. This shines out through our thinking, which begins to change into accord with our being- impowered with might by His Spirit in the inner man. This opens the door for the Spirit's doing in and through us- for it is God who is in us to will and to work of His pleasure.

Sounds so easy and reasonable ;o)

That is how I understand it as well.

I feel a need to say something.  Maybe this is just for me, but I suspect it isn't.  I am a child of two alcoholics.  As much as I love my parents, I realize I learned some things in my childhood that effected my relationship with God.  These things I had to unlearn to find freedom.  In childhood I learned that I needed to do, and to be in order to find love and acceptance.  If I succeeded and accomplished then I was worthy of affection.  I was significant.  If I failed, I was not.  Learning a works based image of myself was destructable to my spirit.  It left me constantly feeling like I didn't measure up, guilt ridden, inept, depressed, and anxious.  Where is God in that?

I believe the Law is there to show us our need for God.  Grace is there because I can't.  Today, I still struggle with self image issues, specifically the how does God feel about me question.  I know intellectually that God loves me unconditionally.  I understand grace on a cognitive level.  But, I have been recently shown that many of my actions show that I haven't internalized either of those things.  My faith in God's love has been tested and I have been found wanting.  But, what I know is this...that the mirror comes out before the change.  I become aware, then God moves.  It has little to nothing to do with me.  In fact I believe it happens despite me, outside of me.

I am also aware that we all have our own personal journey.  And I too can get caught up with trying to transpose my experience upon another.  It's something I have to be very careful about.

I love you my friend and I am so well aware of OUR Father's love being unconditional, and there is my rest, amid all my unrest. Thank you my friend and brother. :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

Brother, I love you as well.  Rest amid the unrest, I like that.  I grow exhausted wrestling with myself.  I have no choice but to turn my eyes upon Him.

[ded2daworld]

"and Jacob wrestled with the christophany(Angel of the Lord) until sun was about to rise" :Peace2:

[Colleen]

Waiting... Possibly the greatest spiritual discipline and the most fruitful.

I love lamp... Oops... I love forum (obscure humor)

[redhotmagma]

I love lamp... Oops... I love forum (obscure humor)

:thumbsup:

[Lloyd]

shawn:
Today, I'm utterly convinced that I couldn't, can't, and won't unless its all God.  Even the faith I have today is from Him.  My ability to turn my eyes upon Him is from Him.  How can I partner with God?  I'm not much of a partner.

I think God values us more highly than what we can imagine (and for good reason).

eaglesway:
His Spirit in the inner man ... opens the door for the Spirit's doing in and through us- for it is God who is in us to will and to work of His pleasure.
Sounds so easy and reasonable ;o)

If we're not God, then we're not just God talking to Himself. I think there's an US. Maybe it's good not to think highly of our own selves, but it seems to me it's good to think highly of each other. We shouldn't think little of each other, should we?

shawn:
Today, I still struggle with self image issues, specifically the how does God feel about me question.  I know intellectually that God loves me unconditionally.  I understand grace on a cognitive level.  But, I have been recently shown that many of my actions show that I haven't internalized either of those things.  My faith in God's love has been tested and I have been found wanting.  But, what I know is this...that the mirror comes out before the change.  I become aware, then God moves.  It has little to nothing to do with me.  In fact I believe it happens despite me, outside of me.

Speaking of Alcoholics, I used to attend AA, Alanon and Oa meetings etc. That's where I gradually came to know God as my best friend. It took me a few years to realize that my concept of God was based largely on my Dad's character. Intellectually I had no such concept, but subconsciously I gave God many of Dad's attributes, probably when I was very young. When I finally asked myself one day if my loneliness was an illusion, that's when I noticed my barrier to God and that the barrier was my false belief that God is like my Dad. I realized then that my actual belief had been that God is a slave-driving perfectionist who wanted me to obey his every command instantly and perfectly like a robot or slave with no mind or will of my own and that there would be little reward for all of my effort and accomplishment. That's how Dad had treated me.

What a lucky break it was that I had that discussion with myself that day. I was able to let go of that ridiculous false belief and have immediate access to my best friend who always has the best advice for me that there is. I've continued to be dense enough that I probably don't understand God's inspiration real well yet, but it was a huge relief to have my barrier to God fall away so easily. It was emotionally a very moving experience for me that lasted a long time, because of sensing the caring (love) that removed that huge burden from me and that told me God respects me so much that He wants me to be the owner of myself to make my own decisions, but always have access to His friendly advice with no strings attached and no requirement that I follow it until I'm good and ready to. It was a very hard life I lived before that and the relief I felt added to the caring I sensed that saved me from a life of misery, like the misery that many people experience way too long.

I feel like the prodigal son. And I like to stay mindful of the parable of talents. I mean the parable about people who were given different numbers of talents of silver, I think, and, when the owner of the talents returned, some used the talents to good profit, but one hid them away for safekeeping, but was rebuked for not gaining any profit from the talents. I don't sense that my friend, God, rebukes me for wasting my talents, or that he nags me to use them. But I want to pass on to others the caring He shows me by helping others find His friendship as I did. There's too much misery in the world and I want to take responsibility for doing my part to help end it. I want to use my talents well.

[misszoolander]

Moving, touching and I can relate Lloyd  :thumbsup:  :dsunny:  :HeartThrob:

The prodigal son story is one of my favorites, as I feel this truly represents me.
Sometimes I feel guilty looking back, all the stupid stuff I did, but I am glad that through God he has made me new, and making me newer (if that makes sense) every step of the way.

I too saw God as distant, way too good for a mere adulteress like me. I use to put him at the back of my mind,  but continue for my search of unfailing love in ordinary men. In the end I become a very heart broken, insecure women (pretty much sums up the pigs pen). I decided enough was enough and I made an effort to go back to my Heavenly Father. However it was a struggle, there were a few deaths in my family and the thought of eternal hell, and the pain and suffering in this world made God feel even more distant, I started to become a half-hearted Christian, who relied more on the Church than God. It was not until I truly felt the love of God, that's when I noticed I started changing. My behavior changed because I recognized the love he had for me, and rather staying as the grudging servant I was, I became a daughter wanting to please her Father. 

[Lloyd]

Initially, folks here seemed to have great resistance to the idea of discussing using discipline, but I think it was a knee-jerk reaction, more than anything, and it was apparently based on incorrect assumptions and impulses.

If you think about it, discipline is an important part of living, especially for Godly people. Throughout each day, we have thoughts almost constantly. Each moment God gives us free will to choose what thoughts to have and what environment to put ourselves in. It's usually so automatic, that we don't realize we're making choices each moment. Each choice is either more Godly or less Godly. Discipline teaches us to make each choice more Godly.

The Bible suggests that making more Godly choices leads to literal prosperity and making less Godly choices leads to destruction, especially for whole cities and nations. The promise of the Bible is for Heaven on Earth as well as in the afterlife.

[shawn]

I appreciate you sharing that about your dad.  Being in recovery I tend to recognize my own, and that includes other children of alcoholics.  We have certain traits that we fight, and one of them tends to be image of God issues.  I'm glad to hear you have worked through alot of that.  But, if you ever need to talk to someone who understands specifically about that kind of stuff, hit me up with a PM.

[VineBranch]

If you think about it, discipline is an important part of living, especially for Godly people. Throughout each day, we have thoughts almost constantly. Each moment God gives us free will to choose what thoughts to have and what environment to put ourselves in. It's usually so automatic, that we don't realize we're making choices each moment. Each choice is either more Godly or less Godly. Discipline teaches us to make each choice more Godly.

I appreciate your post immensely Lloyd.  I however have found the opposite to be true.  I grew up in an alcoholic co/dependent family.  I have my own addiction issues, and have tended to find those who dance the same dance since school.  I thought to discipline my way out.  I had schedules and classes and planned times for all things I thought were spiritual.  Bible reading, prayer, eating with proper attitude, making sure I didn't walk too fast, or too slow, trying to make everything I did spiritual in nature even though it needed to be physical in expression.  Structure and discipline ruled.  It worked for a while.

What I found was that a task master, regardless of how nicely adorned, or spiritually articulated, is a task master.  I have found that my Dad is not a task master.  He is my Dad.  If I don't reach a goal I've set for myself, he hugs me and tells me He loves me.  If I do reach a goal I've set for myself, he hugs me and tells me He loves me.  I have found that I don't disappoint the Father, by being exactly whom He created.  I'm just as likely to fall asleep in church as on the couch.  In either case, I fall asleep in His arms.  IMO He didn't create me to achieve anything (my Calvinist ancestors are spinning around in their graves like little dynamos).  He didn't create me to be spiritual.  He didn't create me to accomplish x,y,or z.  He created me, because it pleased Him to do so.  IMO it ain't about me, it truly just ain't.

Naptime ... look a butterfly.

[Lazarus Short]

Naptime ... look a butterfly.

That's very zen, VB.  I mean that in the best possible way.  It makes weird sense, like my daughter's haiku:

haikus are easy
but sometimes they don't make sense
refrigerator